Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by nikiano

Take care, Asen. Hope you can avoid catching it.... whatever it is.

Didn't realize you were a medical student until I just read your prevous post....now I really feel stupid for my recommendations yesterday about how to keep safe by handwashing, etc.. You obviously know about all that.

I also didn't realize that you were getting information straight from the medical community.....all I can say is....wow. Thanks for updating us with current "inside" information. I really appreciate it.



[edit on 1-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 1-11-2009 by nikiano]

I am just in my second year. Don't know much about medicine. Expect we used to have basic therapy and surgery classes exactly in the hospital where the flu patients are being treated at the moment. All we know is resuscitation methods, asepsis and aseptic techniques(using them right now ), and paramedic and nursing stuff. And I read your post and noted ponts down too. I am very thankful to all the people here who have given me many good ideas to stay safe, appreciate it.
And oh I am sorry, I can't tell you any more info from the doctors/medical community as i am not in touch with them after the university closed...

Originally posted by tarifa37
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Finally MSM www.ft.com...

Um.. No. The MSM has beeing lying about this claiming it's simple h1n1 for a couple days now. That's nothing new.

When they report about a mystery plague that is killing a VERY HIGH percentage of those it infects, let us know.

Originally posted by Luppakorva
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Sure thing.

Here they are:

www.europe-airports.com...

You can find both, departures and arrivals.

Thanks a lot.

What I could make out-

NO flights arrive at this time, only after 12.15PM.

And no flights depart before 6.30AM(noise was at 1.05AM and continued till 1.10AM)

Hmm dunno what to make of the noise...

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Originally posted by waterdoctor
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Based on current reported case mortality rates and the demographics of the effected I would agree with your observation up to a point. The infection rate seems to be higher, if the published numbers are correct, than what we have seen in the past. If that is true then we may be seeing the clad of the virus with the mutation that makes it more communicable. This was identified in Northern Europe earlier this year, I am sorry but I don't have the link. If the CFR comes in at .05% or so you are correct. If we see an order of magnitude jump in the CFR then the virus has mutated to a more pathogenic strain or is something else.

Supposedly if we see a jump to 1% then we might be dealing with a mutation. The thing to keep in mind though is most mutations in a virus at this stage will be in overcoming treatments (like the tamiflu immunity response which was the first mutation).

This virus is already just about as communicable as it can be, it has the genetic hooks for A and B connections. The only mutations left would be temperature viability and the dreaded avian flu recombination. It might be a temperature mutation but given the conditions in Ukraine it isn't needed which for me leaves just an avian flu recombination. I think we'd have thousands of dead already if that were the case.

Anyway, that's why I doubt we're seeing a mutation, I think we're just finally seeing the virus in its true operating environment. If that's the case then we have a lot to think about in the US and other Western countries.

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by waterdoctor
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Based on current reported case mortality rates and the demographics of the effected I would agree with your observation up to a point. The infection rate seems to be higher, if the published numbers are correct, than what we have seen in the past. If that is true then we may be seeing the clad of the virus with the mutation that makes it more communicable. This was identified in Northern Europe earlier this year, I am sorry but I don't have the link. If the CFR comes in at .05% or so you are correct. If we see an order of magnitude jump in the CFR then the virus has mutated to a more pathogenic strain or is something else.

Supposedly if we see a jump to 1% then we might be dealing with a mutation. The thing to keep in mind though is most mutations in a virus at this stage will be in overcoming treatments (like the tamiflu immunity response which was the first mutation).

This virus is already just about as communicable as it can be, it has the genetic hooks for A and B connections. The only mutations left would be temperature viability and the dreaded avian flu recombination. It might be a temperature mutation but given the conditions in Ukraine it isn't needed which for me leaves just an avian flu recombination. I think we'd have thousands of dead already if that were the case.

Anyway, that's why I doubt we're seeing a mutation, I think we're just finally seeing the virus in its true operating environment. If that's the case then we have a lot to think about in the US and other Western countries.

What information do you base your opinions off of?

Because I have seen atleast 10 Ukrainian and Russian news sources confirming that it is NOT the novel form of A(h1n1) that is killing these people, although many people are also infected with that.


Then we have our western news sources, written by reporters in their little office 1000s of miles away, that are told by their corporate overlords what to write about, that all say that its regular ol' h1n1 that is killing all these people.

One of the groups has to be lying... you decide.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by seattletruth]

reply to post by ecoparity


The temperature mutation was the article I was referring to. I do not want to even go to the H5N1 recombination possibility.

The problem we are going to start seeing however is new and artificial selective pressures on the virus.

I had the N1H1 flu this May. I had the long lasting version and it was no fun.

We have seen them confirming it? Reliable news sources? Excuse me, but we have not. That's exactly what is happening in this thread, rumors are starting to become facts. Let's be careful with that.

reply to post by seattletruth


I get it, you believe its something more conspiratorial in nature. Prove it.
Youtube videos of blogs and blogs don't prove anything for me.

I've seen not a single reported symptom that would lead me to believe this is anything other than a bad outbreak of swine flu.

Theres no good news here, even with that. Either we have a mutation which is very bad news for all of us or we're getting to see how the swine flu operates under ideal conditions. Now that those same conditions are coming here that's not a good thing.

If you want to believe its something worse like a government operation to kill off the population then go ahead, I just don't see how they could possibly pull that off and remain alive. Pathogens mutate, there's no way to release one and hope it will only kill off the target. We've proven that in programs to try and develop such pathogens many times.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Originally posted by waterdoctor
reply to post by ecoparity

 

The temperature mutation was the article I was referring to. I do not want to even go to the H5N1 recombination possibility.

The problem we are going to start seeing however is new and artificial selective pressures on the virus.

I had the N1H1 flu this May. I had the long lasting version and it was no fun.

So did I and I was hoping all that suffering bought me some immunity but as of last night I'm sick once again with some kind of flu type virus. This is the longest I've been awake in the past 36 hours....

Can we chill with all the back and forth GEEZ!

The bottom line is there are lots of people sick and some dieing in the Ukraine. There have been confirmed links saying they are shutting schools and rails, and that the goverment there is asking for help.

Thank you to the original OP, one thing we can all agree on is he broke this story for many of us, and he was right, there are lots of people sick and some are dieing in the Ukraine.

This is a conspiracy website, please remember that people. Everyone is welcome to bring there info and we then have the option of sorting it out and taking from it what we chose.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Few thoughts to ease your mind mate.

Sometimes planes don't get permission to land, they circle around the field, at times they have to be up for hours if there is a situation going on on the ground.

Also, not all flights are commercial ones, there's indrustial flights, cargo flights.. and how about army starting to make their own to deliver medicine's and things as such? ..using all they have, helicopters, aeroplanes and so on.

Possibilities are endless, the last I would go for is that they are spraying something to the atmosphere, what that would have to be would kill alot more than just viruses / bacterials, they would never do that. ..unless you are to believe into those crazy stories they are making people ill by spraying bio weapons in to the atmospehere ...for that thought, give it a one single minute ..it would be a suicide really, you can't control it after it starts to spread out.

Take care there mate .


Edit: few typos

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Luppakorva]

Originally posted by ecoparity

..we're getting to see how the swine flu operates under ideal conditions. Now that those same conditions are coming here that's not a good thing.

What exactly does this part of your post mean? How is it that the ideal conditions are present in this situation that makes it more deadly?

[edit on 11/1/2009 by Finalized]

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by waterdoctor
reply to post by ecoparity

 

So did I and I was hoping all that suffering bought me some immunity but as of last night I'm sick once again with some kind of flu type virus. This is the longest I've been awake in the past 36 hours....

Do you realize what you have just reported? If you have N1H1 again then what level of genetic shift do you have to have in the virus?

reply to post by ecoparity


are you really positive it is swine flu again? Think about it. If that's true we can't make any immunity for it. Or it actually is completely different virus. Can the original one mutate that much?

I understood that people who still have the old 1918 spanish flu immunity are immune to this one, now you have it and here we go... it doesn't help if that is really swine flu you have again?

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by seattletruth

 

I get it, you believe its something more conspiratorial in nature. Prove it.
Youtube videos of blogs and blogs don't prove anything for me.

I've seen not a single reported symptom that would lead me to believe this is anything other than a bad outbreak of swine flu.

Theres no good news here, even with that. Either we have a mutation which is very bad news for all of us or we're getting to see how the swine flu operates under ideal conditions. Now that those same conditions are coming here that's not a good thing.

If you want to believe its something worse like a government operation to kill off the population then go ahead, I just don't see how they could possibly pull that off and remain alive. Pathogens mutate, there's no way to release one and hope it will only kill off the target. We've proven that in programs to try and develop such pathogens many times.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by ecoparity]

I have my personal theories, but I am not talking about them in this thread.

There have been NUMEROUS reports from mainstream russian and ukrainian news that dozens have died from a MYSTERY PLAGUE

Even the NEW YORK TIMES says that they dont know what specifically caused the pneumonia, basically admitting that they COULDNT CLAIM that it was H1N1.

If you want to believe western media over people that are actually IN Ukraine and talking to doctors, then go ahead. NWO loves people like you. I'm sure you'll believe them that the current h1n1 vaccine will save you from this pneumatic plague if it spreads here, too.

reply to post by seattletruth


Hey hey hey...now .... please, no reason to do that fear mongering which is not based into facts.

If they can't say it's not swine flu yet, it most likely has been just another illnesses that people tend to die every day and every year or they have not been able to confirm those cases.

It does not make it to be mystery plaque. Those "reliable" news sources.. Now I have been in this thread from the very beginning and I really have seen NONE reliable sources to back that up. Only few rumors and blog articles, that's it. You're saying 10 ..show me one reliable one?

Some numbers to chew on from the Ukraine Ministry of Health data that was released over the past four days. (I've compiled it in Excel to study the numbers)

Date Total Hospital Int. Care Dead
29-Oct 37923 951 61 30
30-Oct 81487 2341 131 33
31-Oct 165192 5239 136 39
1-Nov 191431 7524 123 60

I think it's notable that the data from today separates the totals from Influenza versus ARI. 95% of the cases are NOT classified as Influenza. Does that mean that they know for sure it isn't some form of the flu? Or simply that they can't confirm it as the flu so they put it in the other column? I dunno... but I find it interesting.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Vexatious Vex]

I'm not claiming to have the swine flu again but according to the research I shouldn't have any flu at all - H1N1 should have displaced the seasonal flu completely. I said flu type illness, fever, upset stomach but I have no respiratory symptoms. The point is more along the lines of there being thousands of viruses in the environment other than the one making the news.

A lot of the worst H1N1 symptoms have not been widely reported in order to prevent panic. It wouldn't surprise me if some people were caught completely off guard by the more extreme of them. I posted some photos from Mexico City that would convince you the victims were dying of Ebola, they were covered in blood from head to toe.

The flu virus thrives under certain conditions, this is the main reason why avian flu is not more widespread in humans - it requires a higher body temperature to remain active.

In between host bodies the flu virus needs cold and humidity to remain alive for very long. It doesn't help that this swine flu has already mutated to be able to survive for three days or more outside a host, add in ideal weather conditions and it could easily double that. This means more infected people, period.

Most of the outbreaks have been localized in nature - groups of children at the same school and so on and most have been less severe. As you get more of the virus alive in the environment the number of infected goes up as does the number of severe cases.

I have no problem with conspiracies but don't present them as proven fact and tell everyone else to shut up. That's just ridiculous. There's more than enough to be worried about without inventing stuff to pile on.

Originally posted by Luppakorva
reply to post by seattletruth

 

Hey hey hey...now

.... please, no reason to do that fear mongering which is not based into facts.


If they can't say it's not swine flu yet, it most likely has been just another illnesses that people tend to die every day and every year or they have not been able to confirm those cases.

It does not make it to be mystery plaque. Those "reliable" news sources.. Now I have been in this thread from the very beginning and I really have seen NONE reliable sources to back that up. Only few rumors and blog articles, that's it. You're saying 10 ..show me one reliable one?

Where was I fearmongering? I simply said I bet he'd be gullible enough to believe whatever fits the NWO agenda.

Do you trust the international society for infectious diseases??

Or do you think Ukrainian doctors are too incompetant to diagnose h1n1 properly, even though they have been preparing for the h1n1 pandemic for MONTHS.


www.promedmail.org...:1001:389156444::NO::F2400_P1001_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_PUB_MAIL_ID:1090,79858&prev=_t&rurl=translat e.google.com&usg=ALkJrhiIxlnFaxTaBtalZaflqkCzUL094w

[edit on 1-11-2009 by seattletruth]

[edit on 1-11-2009 by seattletruth]

reply to post by ecoparity


Those H1N1 symptoms which not have been reported to prevent panic, can you let me know what they are? you mentioned that blood at least. Could you be a bit more specific?

I'm afraid I have to see it with my own eyes and quite soon, so any info about it is much appreciated.