Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by Beefcake

Originally posted by asen_y2k
And another low flying aircraft...sounded like a turbo prop....3.12AM

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Seriously why are you posting this what does that even mean you can't just fill a thread with one line posts like

"i heard a plane"

This is becoming a mock thread imo maybe i should post that i hear a plane too hey maybe its the WHO they fly in planes

No one who has decided that the flu vaccine is poison is going to get the flu shot because of this thread so i'm not saying you are a paid blogger but for the ones in this thread you are wasting your time.

We aren't scared.

First off i don't even think Flu shots work but hypothetically say the flu shot definitely will save yiou from the flu.

You have a small chance of dieing from the flu. You also have a small chance of getting Guillain–Barré syndrome from the vaccine.
Now Guillain–Barré syndrome paralyzes you and you eventually die, if you don't die you are paralyzed for life and maybe mentally handicapped.

Out of both small chances i will take the flu death over the extended torture of Guillain–Barré syndrome any day thank you very much.

Move on from this thread this will amount to nothing except poor hospital and sanitary conditions making a situation worse.

Dude, you are bashing asen_y2k for giving us first hand information from Ukraine??? I dont care if he posts that his balls itch, I am sure that myself and MANY other people on this board want to read about it!!

Thanks asen_y2k for all your updates and info... Please dont let this guy make you think we dont want you posting here.

Originally posted by Bcs8484
reply to post by Beefcake

 

I don't think anyone is pushing a swine flu vaccine in here to be honest. Its not even clear what is causing this. I do remember reading articles by the President of Ukraine that said this was not swine flu why is that forgotten?

I totally agree that this is not confirmed that this is Swine flu i posted earlier in the thread the quote from the Health Minister of the Ukraine saying they don't know what it is.

That being said there is a hell of a lot of fear mongering in this thread it is quite ridiculous. We see very important threads that maybe top out at 30 flags then we get this one and the Balloon boy thread with over a hundred.

We are all concerned over lives and sickness but this thread seem melodramatic especially from people that hardly ever post about anything and we see hundreds of articles a week which are equally important in their scope.

We are talking about the Ukraine here the place is not only steeped in corruption(meaning easily controlled by money ie big pharma)but it is hardly for bastion for healthcare.

I just wish we had this kind of fervor over some the other stories that are posted on this site. That being said i still think we do but i feel that this thread has been descended upon by paid bloggers to pump it and to scare us.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but hey we are on Above top secret

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Beefcake]

Originally posted by Beefcake

Just get some sleep this will all blow over this is only getting hype to scare us internationally into wanting the vaccines.

I guarantee you this will turn out to be nothing at all and we will revisit this thread and laugh at the responses and the media firestorm just like we do over so many things.

I find it interesting that you chastise the poster for mentioning that he heard a plane overhead (an unusual occurrence) and then you claim these Ukrane flu reports are simply staged events to convince is all to get vaccinated.

No offense but I'd much rather read eyewitness reports from a poster in the region than some unsubstantiated and hysterical claim being presented as fact.

Originally posted by Night Watchman

Originally posted by Beefcake

Just get some sleep this will all blow over this is only getting hype to scare us internationally into wanting the vaccines.

I guarantee you this will turn out to be nothing at all and we will revisit this thread and laugh at the responses and the media firestorm just like we do over so many things.

I find it interesting that you chastise the poster for mentioning that he heard a plane overhead (an unusual occurrence) and then you claim these Ukrane flu reports are simply staged events to convince is all to get vaccinated.

No offense but I'd much rather read eyewitness reports from a poster in the region than some unsubstantiated and hysterical claim being presented as fact.

The health Minister of the Ukraine said they don't know what it is how do you know it is the swine flu. Do you not believe the Health Minister of the Ukraine? I assume he has more information at hand than you or i do.

survivalstation.org...’s-d eadly-flu-pretext-for-mandatory-vaccination-22183.html

“The H1N1 virus which causes Mexican flu has been ruled out,” Radio Netherlands Worldwide reported yesterday. Ukraine Health Minister Vasyl Kniazevych told the National Radio Company of Ukraine that the virus is not H1N1. “The minister noted that the main objective is to identify the virus causing the disease, which is expected to take several weeks.”

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Beefcake]

It isn't true that "only" a hemorrhagic virus can lead to hemorrhagic pneumonia. Any virus that causes pneumonia can lead to bleeding lesions under the right conditions, and any virus that causes pneumonia can lead to secondary bacterial infections, many of which are known to cause so-called hemorrhagic pneumonia.

I wonder how I was able to post this exact same list of severe symptoms over six months ago? Either I'm psychic or had some damn good sources.

I for one am not pushing vaccinations on anyone, I've already posted my own story of what squalene did to me. You have to keep in mind just how primitive vaccination is compared to other forms of disease prevention which have been suppressed. You're talking about a form of medication the pharma companies wouldn't even manufacture without liability waivers from the governments of the World.

I cannot advise anyone else in that regard, however. Sometimes you have a choice to make between dying right now or possibly dying later. If you knew you had a choice between death in the weeks to come or losing a week or two off of your total life span which would you choose?

If the swine flu begins hitting the US as hard as its hitting the Ukraine right now there's a good chance my family will be getting the nasal vaccine but none of us will be taking the shot. That's my decision to make though just as each of you have to make your own.

I wouldn't place too much stock in any political claims that this virus is not the swine flu. For one they don't want to have to explain why they were unable to provide enough vaccine for the public in time. We've already seen the WHO go along with Mexico on manipulating the number of swine flu deaths simply to prop up a tourism industry. The WHO has as its primary mission the preservation of trade between nations, after all.

I don't consider advising people to be careful and to be prepared to self isolate as fear mongering. In fact, the few people who listened to me back in April / May don't have to be afraid right now - they already have gloves and masks and stored food / water. You can wait until the pandemic begins in your town to go to the store but I shouldn't have to point out the foolishness in doing so.

Asen: if you do have to go out for supplies wear gloves and a mask of some kind. Get some Lysol or bleach water to clean off anything you buy before you bring it inside - the virus could be on just about anything and remain viable for a long time. If you have late night shopping try to go then when fewer people are around. Avoid other people and keep a barrier between your home and the outside World and you'll be fine.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ecoparity

If the swine flu beings hitting the US as hard as its hitting the Ukraine right now there's a good chance my family will be getting the nasal vaccine but none of us will be taking the shot. That's my decision to make though just as each of you have to make your own.

Please read my post on this page i posted the Health Minister of the Ukraine saying that this is not Swine flu. Please posters need to stop saying it is and read the info in the thread. Forget reading my post i will post the quote again.

survivalstation.org... %E2%80%99s-deadly-flu-pretext-for-mandatory-vaccination-22183.html

“The H1N1 virus which causes Mexican flu has been ruled out,” Radio Netherlands Worldwide reported yesterday. Ukraine Health Minister Vasyl Kniazevych told the National Radio Company of Ukraine that the virus is not H1N1. “The minister noted that the main objective is to identify the virus causing the disease, which is expected to take several weeks.”

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Beefcake]

Originally posted by GypsK

but even after doing so
I see nothing about mandatory vaccinations, he doesn't say that anywhere.

I would strongly suggest that people read what is actually written on those websites and not read what they want to read (mean that in general, not towards one person in paticular)

Yushchenko calls for a total of influenza vaccination

Yushchenko also spoke on the issue of vaccination against influenza.

"Today we need to do everything in order to respond to the observation that vaccination schedule is seriously disrupted.

Believe me, there is no other answer as to raise the culture, to undertake a full schedule of vaccinations, which recommends that the Ministry of Health today.

translate.google.com...

This translation does not include the word mandatory - however its possible that is the meaning. It does indicate that vaccinations are going to be high priority.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by asen_y2k


I wonder if you are able to go here and check this out.
Above Top Secret

Originally posted by OpTiMuS_PrImE
i think the mods should step in this thread it seems somewhat out of control now with some unreliable information and a lot of here say info.. This thread could lead to a lot of un-needed panic from all around, seems people are already in a panic over this and theres just not a lot of bold information confirming either or

People saying theres tanks on the streets wheres the pictures? Show some proof if you state to see these kind of things

[edit on 1-11-2009 by OpTiMuS_PrImE]

I think you are a bit confused. The reference was to 'tankers' - which are apparently being used to spray disinfectant - especially in places like railway stations which are being disinfected regularly.

The information that is being linked is often translated - and maybe there is some hype - but it really falls onto the individual to read everything, the entire thread - every post.

Maybe make some notes - youre the only person who can decide your own truth.

From what I can see - the situation is serious, and a certain amount of anxiety is desirable - blind panic of course isn't.

reply to post by Beefcake


Beefcake,

I don't think anyone on this thread is fear mongering. There is a huge difference between fear mongering, and posting up to the minute updates from various different sources, as we find them.....and then speculating as to what it could all mean.

Quite honestly, you're probably one of the most aggressive posters on this thread.

So please, stop accusing us of fear mongering.....we're just trying to put all the pieces together like a puzzle at this point.

And nobody on this thread is pushing the swine flu vaccination, at least as far as I've seen. Quite the contrary. Maybe you have this thread confused with another one.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by Beefcake


I know I've seen your blog post link several times. If you can explain why the same health minister is reporting to the WHO that it is swine flu then I'd be interested to hear it. What I see is the government there saying one thing to internal news sources and something else to external ones.

The problems with testing and the breakdown of deaths labeled as swine flu and "unknown respiratory illness" matches every other outbreak we've had to date. Same symptoms, same testing results, same everything.

Its election time in the Ukraine, the existing government is going to try very hard to deny people are dying from the Swine Flu and have to explain why they did not make enough vaccine available.

I just don't get the need to try and classify the agent as something other than swine flu. Do people think it means they won't have to face the same danger and their personal theories of "swine flu hoax" can remain standing? I'm all for a good conspiracy but the few I believe in actually have some evidence to back them. There are real conspiracies to be had within this subject but once again people are being misdirected into very foolish "sub conspiracies" which I suspect are designed to make everyone look foolish. The "no swine flu" people are starting to resemble the "no planes" group, IMO.

OK so we have this swine flu with a set of very horrible symptoms in some cases and now the Ukraine has an outbreak with the same set of symptoms. Well, it must be something else cause deadly diseases always go pandemic in pairs and triplets...... /sarcasm.

Originally posted by severdsoul

I'll pop a beer open and have a distant drink with you.

Sounds like about the best plan , kick back, and be with friends/family and wait for information.

Somehow this reminded me of The Decameron:

The Decameron (subtitle: Prencipe Galeotto) is a collection of 100 novellas by Italian author Giovanni Boccaccio, probably begun in 1350 and finished in 1353...

This work opens with a description of the Bubonic Plague (Black Death) and leads into an introduction of a group of seven young women and three young men who fled from Plague ridden Florence for a villa outside of the city walls. To pass the time, each member of the party tells one story for every one of the ten nights spent at the villa. The Decameron is a distinctive work, in that it describes in detail the physical, psychological and social effects that the Bubonic Plague had on that part of Europe.

Sadly it seems this has turned into a who can blame who for misinformation or pushing their own choices of how to and not to vaccinate. I would hope above all we can stop to remember, there is a scared OP in the middle of this mess, whether it be truely to the extent of some reports, or just overhyped people running to the hospitals with sniffles and colds. The point of this is, Asen is scared and trying to tell us if this is true, to prepare ourselves and give a little help if we can to ease fears for the ones on the inside. If one thread in 3 days has many saying and acting this way, Im very sad to think if the real deal shows up, how selfish, accusitory and heartless we all will be to one another instead of trying to give a helping hand....

reply to post by Beefcake


Archive Number 20091031.3764
Published Date 31-OCT-2009
Subject PRO/AH/EDR> Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (80): Ukraine susp. RFI


INFLUENZA PANDEMIC (H1N1) 2009 (80): UKRAINE, SUSPECTED, REQUEST FOR
INFORMATION
*******************************
A ProMED-mail post

ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases


Date: Fri 30 Oct 2009
Source: Digital Journal [edited]



40 000 contract serious virus in Ukraine, 30 dead
-------------------------------------------------
As the world enters the [influenza] season, another possible virus
emerges as 30 people in the Eastern European country of Ukraine have
died from this latest flu [virus infection].

Each country is dealing with their own cases of the pandemic (H1N1)
2009 virus infection and many have even [under]taken vaccination, but
is H1N1 the only flu out there? A viral infection in Ukraine has taken
the lives of 30 people and at 1st it seemed like an ordinary flu but
after a week the symptoms worsened.

Radio Netherlands Worldwide reports 40 000 Ukrainians have contracted
the disease and at least 100 are in the hospital. Tests are currently
being conducted and all that is known is that it is not the pandemic
(H1N1) 2009 strain of influenza virus [but see comment below].

A large number of schools and childcare facilities are being shut
down, especially in the city of Lvov [Lviv in western Ukraine -
Mod.CP]. Also, government agencies are handing out surgical masks and
gloves to people in the western part of Ukraine.

However, Russia Today is reporting that it is A/H1N1 or Californian
Flu [i.e., the A/California/7/2009 strain from which the current
pandemic vaccines are derived - Mod.CP] and the total number of deaths
is closer to 40.

Prime Minister Timoshenko [of Ukraine] stated, "Express-tests cannot
provide a hundred percent verification of the virus; they give only 50
percent accuracy. That's why blood [samples from] those who died were
sent to special laboratories for further testing, and only this
morning it was confirmed that at least 11 deaths were caused by the
A/H1N1 [pandemic 2009] virus."

The Ukrainian government is calling for international aid to help
fight their epidemic and President Yushchenko believes the country
needs more than USD 6 million to battle the epidemic.

[Byline: Andrew Moran]

--
Communicated by:
ProMED-mail


[ProMED-mail also thanks Sharon Sanders for bringing this outbreak of
an undiagnosed influenza-like illness to our attention. It now
appears, contrary to an initial denial and continuing uncertainty,
that the outbreak is likely a consequence of pandemic A (H1N1) 2009
virus infection. ProMED-mail would welcome further information from
any informed source.

The HealthMap/ProMED-mail interactive map of Ukraine can be accessed at:
. - Mod.CP]

[see also;
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (79): responses in children 20091030.3757
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (78): oseltamivir resistance, USA (NC)
20091030.3753
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (77): Taiwan oseltamivir resistance
20091027.3725
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (76); El Salvador, dengue co-infection
20091025.3695
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (75): southern hemisphere 20091022.3637
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (74): Canada (ON) oseltamivir resist
20091022.3634
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (73): Taiwan oseltamivir resistance
20091021.3626
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (72): pneumonia 20091017.3577
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (71): case counts 20091017.3568
Influenza pandemic (H1N1) 2009 (70): Nepal 20091016.35

reply to post by silent thunder


Interesting, i may have to check that one out.

I'm still following every page, life's thrown me a curve ball the past couple of days, and took a huge dump on what i though was normal.

But i keep up with the thread and read all the post.. just have to muh going on to do much digging.


So question for all.
Ukraine is a lot like U.S. in some ways.. So they say you must stay in, avoid public places etc.. How's everyone doing there finacialy?
How are they going to pay rent/heat, food if they are orderd not to leave their house? Also If/When this reaches the U.S. what plans do we have. Sure would be nice to have a few thousand put away for a rianly day, but in todays markets, not many can afford to do that.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Beefcake

 

The "no swine flu" people are starting to resemble the "no planes" group, IMO.

You mean that when there's overwhelming evidence that contradicts the mainstream media's corporate-goggled eyes of the event, we actually trust the evidence over Ted Turner?

And by the way, there WEREN'T any planes LOL. NWO loves you.

reply to post by Beefcake




Came back on tonight saw three new pages. Started reading looking for new info and all I see is a bunch of hitching and complaining. Wait for the dam tests to come out then you all can brag to each other. In the meantime if you don't like what's being given to you on a first hand basis then kindly stfu and leave the thread. Three pages of the same people bickering back and forth does nothing for this thread and helps nobody.

/rant

reply to post by suthainn

Right on! Thanks for reminding us why we are here.

I would not want to be in Asen's situation right now. Trying to cope with his life turned upside down, school closed, so much of his support system gone, lack of information, being in a foreign country barely understanding the language of the news, and not having any heat as the weather turns to winter, he/she is coping with a lot at a young age.

My heart goes out to Asen. I am grateful for the first hand reports we are getting. Those who are bringing their personal agendas to this thread should be ashamed.

This is about personal safety for those in Ukraine today, and quite possibly for the rest of us tomorrow. Its a big problem and the truth is tricky. We are doing our best. We will get to the truth if people would quit trying to sabotage the effort by forcing their personal politics or agendas onto the table.

Take it elsewhere!
edit to add: Please.

[edit on 11/1/2009 by wayno]

Originally posted by mkross1983
reply to post by Beefcake

 

In the meantime if you don't like what's being given to you on a first hand basis then kindly stfu and leave the thread.

/rant

Well said.

One other thing I'd like to add:

I have noticed that on ATS, whenever a thread like this is started (i.e. a thread that spreads truth, especially when there is a "media blackout" of some sort), and intelligent people start asking important questions....along come people (like Beefcake), who seem to only want to start a fight, in order to get people to start fighting amongst themselves, instead of continuing to ask important questions....and solve the puzzle.

" Divide and conquer" seem to be their modus operandi. They figure if they can get us arguing amonst ourselves, we'll forget what really brought us to this thread in the first place!

Have you guys noticed that since we started talking about chemical spraying, and bioterrorism, all of a sudden these aggressive debunkers get on the thread and start causing fights and chaos.

In addition, he used another "classic" tool of debunkers....he gets on the thread and changes the subject....(i.e. he brings up the vaccination debate, which this thread isn't about.). But by bringing up the vaccination debate, he has now changed the subject of the thread from bioterrorism, or possible mutation, or the pneumonic plague.... and now it also becomes about the vaccination debate. It becomes watered down, and becomes more hard to follow.

Maybe he's a government disinfo agent, sent to disrupt the thread?? You can always tell you're onto something important when the debunkers start posting and causing fights.

Anyway, I hope we can all continue to talk about what we were talking about (.i.e. what's happening in the Ukraine) before Beefcake and the other debunkers joined us.




[edit on 1-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 1-11-2009 by nikiano]