Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

According to RSOE EDIS the toll is 404 dead and 1,716,560 infected. A quote from the Wiki entry on the 1918 flu says" One of the most striking of the complications was hemorrhage from mucous membranes especially from the nose, stomach and intestine. Bleeding from the ears and petechial hemorrhages in the skin also occurred. The majority of deaths were from bacterial pneumonia a secondary infection caused by influenza, but the virus also killed people directly, causing massive hemorrhages and edema in the lung". I really feel sorry for the people there right now and I hope they get better without more loss of life.

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Oh damn...I will be flying out to Lviv, Ukraine in 2 days. I have two packs of Tamiflu with me. Any idea will the Tamiflu be effective against the mutated strain??

I don't know about this flu in Ukraine, but I've heard that there are mutated swine flu virus other places, that are immune to Tamiflu.

reply to post by asen_y2k


we have basically no first hand reports from ukraine currently, so who knows. the fact is, even if it's immune to tamiflu, relenza will still work... so my advice would be to have both, if possible.

Oh damn...I will be flying out to Lviv, Ukraine in 2 days. I have two packs of Tamiflu with me. Any idea will the Tamiflu be effective against the mutated strain??


Mod edit: (Mod error)


[edit on 26 Nov 2009 by Hellmutt]

Hey, Asen,

If you get to the Ukraine and the flu is proving to be resistant to Tamiflu and other antivirals, I just recently bought the book "Homeopathy for Epidemics" and it's very good. It covers all kinds of epidemics, everything from flu, to hemorrhagic fevers like Ebola, and what to do in the event of bioterrorism (such as plague, smallpox, etc...)

If you need me to quote from a couple chapters based on what you find in the Ukraine, I'd be happy to do that. If Tamiflu proves to be ineffective, homeoapthy might be the next best thing.

In the 1918 epidemic, homeopathy saved so many people. The number one remedy in the 1918 epidemic, according to what I've read, was gelsemium.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by nikiano]

Don't know if this has been posted yet or not.


****


China expert warns of pandemic flu mutation

Doctor doubts China H1N1 deaths

HONG KONG (Reuters) - China must be alert to any mutation or changes in the behavior of the H1N1 swine flu virus because the far deadlier H5N1 bird flu virus is endemic in the country, a leading Chinese disease expert said.

Zhong Nanshan, director of the Guangzhou Institute of Respiratory Diseases in China's southern Guangdong province, said the presence of both viruses in China meant they could mix and become a monstrous hybrid -- a bug packed with strong killing power that can transmit efficiently among people.

"China, as you know, is different from other countries. Inside China, H5N1 has been existing for some time, so if there is really a reassortment between H1N1 and H5N1, it will be a disaster," Zhong said in an interview with Reuters Television.

"This is something we need to monitor, the change, the mutation of the virus. This is why reporting of the death rate must be really transparent."

The World Health Organization warned on Tuesday that H5N1 had erupted in poultry in Egypt, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam, posing once again a threat to humans.

"First, it places those in direct contact with birds -- usually rural folk and farm workers -- at risk of catching the often-fatal disease. Second, the virus could undergo a process of "reassortment" with another influenza virus and produce a completely new strain," it said.

"The most obvious risk is of H5N1 combining with the pandemic ... (H1N1) virus, producing a flu virus that is as deadly as the former and as contagious as the latter."

Zhong told the Chinese media last week that China may have had more H1N1 flu deaths than it has reported, with some local governments possibly concealing suspect cases.

The doctor is known for his candor and work in fighting Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome in 2003, when nationwide panic and international alarm erupted after it emerged that officials hid or underplayed the spreading epidemic.

Cover-ups by local governments in 2003 during the SARS epidemic led to the sackings of several officials. More than 300 people died in that outbreak.

China, the world's most populous country, has reported around 70,000 cases of H1N1 and 53 death from the virus.

While some regions simply lack the technology to test for H1N1, other areas have been treating deaths as cases of ordinary pneumonia without a question, Zhong said.

"Some local healthcare authorities are reluctant, unwilling to test patients with severe pneumonia because there's some latent rule which says the more H1N1 deaths, the less effective the control and prevention work in your area," Zhong said.

Zhong said China's health minister Chen Zhu rang him up last week and agreed with his views. A notice then appeared on the ministry's website threatening severe punishment for officials caught concealing deaths from H1N1 swine flu.

WHO reported more than 526,060 laboratory confirmed cases of H1N1 worldwide on November 15, with at least 6,770 deaths. However, it has stressed for months now that the figures were only the tip of the iceberg. Continued...


[edit on 26-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by calohan
IT IS AGREED UNIVERSALLY THAT SWINE FLU IS A RARE CAUSE OF PULMONARY HEMMORHAGE


Probl Tuberk Bolezn Legk. 2005;(1):40-3.

[Pulmonary hemorrhages of different etiology: diagnosis and treatment]

[Article in Russian]

Ventsiavichus V, Tsitsenas S.

Hemorrhage is one of the most pressing problems in lung diseases. The paper analyzes the results of medical and surgical treatments for pulmonary hemorrhages. A total of 724 patients with hemoptysis and bleedings of various etiology were treated at the Thoracic Unit in 1985-2003. Pulmonary hemorrhages occurred in 442 (61%) patients with pulmonary tuberculosis and in 282 (39%) patients with nonspecific lung diseases.

　

And the mechanism through which TB (a mycobacteria) invokes such hemmorhagic disease is below:　

An Interstitial and Hemorrhagic Pneumonitis Induced by Mycobacterial (TB, Avian TB, Swine TB) Trehalose Dimycolate.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

1918 Swine Flu Pandemic

This huge death toll was caused by an extremely high infection rate of up to 50% and the extreme severity of the symptoms, suspected to be caused by cytokine storms.[4] Indeed, symptoms in 1918 were so unusual that initially influenza was misdiagnosed as dengue, cholera, or typhoid. One observer wrote, "One of the most striking of the complications was hemorrhage from mucous membranes, especially from the nose, stomach, and intestine. Bleeding from the ears and petechial hemorrhages in the skin also occurred."[13] The majority of deaths were from bacterial pneumonia, a secondary infection caused by influenza, but the virus also killed people directly, causing massive hemorrhages and edema in the lung.[10]

I won't bother going back and reposting the 50 or so articles from all over the World describing swine flu victims dying with massive hemorrhages from the lungs.

reply to post by nikiano


You know that would be very very helpful. Could you please tell me the name of the Homeopathy medicine. There are many homeo pharmacies in India. Maybe I can get some to make me that med. I am desperate now. Have no time to get Relenza...damn....

reply to post by nikiano


I just spoke to them and they said they will make me a few bottles of gelsemium preparation

reply to post by asen_y2k


There have been a few instances of Tamiflu resistance but its not a universal shift in the virus yet that we know of.

There are no known instances of Relenza resistance as of the last journal paper I saw and I haven't seen any reports in this outbreak of it.

If all you have is the Tamiflu its still better than nothing. Did you consider getting the vaccine? The trend is down in Ukraine right now because the schools were all closed and people started isolating but virologists expect the trend to go back up again once the schools reopen.

reply to post by ecoparity


Yea classes opened last week Monday the 23rd. So we should be seeing spikes again. I will start classes this Monday. I hear people don't wear masks anymore in Lviv.
And oh...NO to the vaccine untill and unless I am wrestled down by two heavily armed police.

[edit on 26/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by nikiano

 

I just spoke to them and they said they will make me a few bottles of gelsemium preparation

Great! Gelsemium was the number one remedy used in the 1918 flu epidemic.

I'm at work right now, but when I get home today, I'll send you the rest of the top remedies for flu.

Also, if you are short on time, you can go to these links:

www.naturalnews.com...

Also, one homeoapth thinks that calc-sulph and sulph-acidum would be good for the hemorrhagic flu.

I'll write more later...gotta go.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by nikiano


Thanks for your help, I am short on time...running around making calls for meds now. I will add these two to the list.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Ok, here's a really good article on the history of homeopathy in epidemics that you could use to share with your doctors, if the situation gets really out of hand.

www.whale.to...

Also, I have homeopathic software on my computer that I can use to repetorize. If you get to the Ukraine and can send me a list of the symptoms that are most prominent, I'd be happy to repetorize them for you on my computer to see what we come up with.

Originally posted by nikiano
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Also, I have homeopathic software on my computer that I can use to repetorize. If you get to the Ukraine and can send me a list of the symptoms that are most prominent, I'd be happy to repetorize them for you on my computer to see what we come up with.

Thanks for the site. And good idea. I will try to find out 1st hand from the doctors that did they actually encounter bleeding from the lungs. And also the other symptoms.

news.xinhuanet.com...

S Korea reports first suspected A/H1N1 reinfection case


www.chinaview.cn 2009-11-26 17:56:57 Print

SEOUL, Nov. 26 (Xinhua) -- South Korea on Thursday reported a suspected reinfection case related to the A/H1N1 flu, the first in the country.

According to the Ministry for Health, Welfare and Family Affairs, a two-year-old girl, who has recovered from the new contagious disease in September, was again tested positive for the virus this month.

It is the first such case reported in the country, which also is rare in the world.

Health officials said the baby was admitted to a hospital in the southeastern city of Gimhae in September due to high fever, and was confirmed to be infected with the virus by Green Cross Reference Laboratory that tests samples provided by local clinics and hospitals. The baby later recovered after receiving antiviral treatment.

However, the baby was sent to hospital again on Nov. 20 as she had a temperature reaching 39.1 C and showed respiratory-related symptoms, and later was tested positive for the A/H1N1 strain, the officials said.

Samples taken from the baby will be sent to the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to check its genetic sequence to find out whether it is a mutated strain of the new flu, the officials added.

Generally, a person that has recovered from the new flu will produce antibodies and develop immunity to the virus.

Officials cited the possibility that the baby did not infect the virus in September and just was misdiagnosed as no re-checking of the first sample was made. But they also said the baby might contract a mutated virus, or the baby has not develop related immunity as she is too young to have a perfect immune system.

Now they have a case of reinfection. So my question is if they can be reinfected with the virus how could a vaccine work in the first place. Or is there now 2 forms of H1N1 that are completeli seperate in make up that they need seperate vaccines for each type?

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Yea classes opened last week Monday the 23rd. So we should be seeing spikes again. I will start classes this Monday. I hear people don't wear masks anymore in Lviv.
And oh...NO to the vaccine untill and unless I am wrestled down by two heavily armed police.

Want some other suggestions?

The homeopathic remedies are great, I'd trust Nikiano there, but there are other things I'd be doing as well if I was about to travel there. In fact I've done them already to survive here, where we had the highest concentration of swine flu in the world.

1. Take a huge dose of vitamin D3. You can google "pharmaceutical dose cholecalciferol" for the correct dose. I just got a 200 capsule bottle of 1000iu D3 oil based capsules and swallowed the lot. That's a once off. Then take 2-6 capsules daily unless you can get half an hour of bright sun on your skin.

2. Get a bottle of a good, pure tea-tree oil. Shake it and sniff it every few hours if there seems to be a danger of catching something. If you start to feel sick or get a sore throat make a drink with water, milk, honey, cinnamon and 1-3 drops of tea-tree oil. It's a soporific, as well as a brilliant bug fighter, so expect a good long sleep afterwards. If you get a sinus infection fight it immediately by snorting up salt water or some of your tea-tree drink. Snorting tea-tree is agony, burns for half an hour, but I think it saved my life. - I'm pretty ill anyway and swine-flu hit me hard. I didn't find out about the need for D3 till later.

3. I'm sure you've read the thread about using onions in hot water. If you use them you can add a drop of tea-tree oil. As well as its vapour being good, it helps preserve the onions.

Then there's vitamin C, ginger, and lots of other cheap and natural remedies that you will have read about here.

Good luck. I hope you find things are not too bad there.

reply to post by calohan


You know looking around me in my neck of the woods, swine flu is none existant after the initial scaremongering and mass vaccination swine flu has died down to the point that emergency room in the two major hospitals here are as usual now, your gun shots and stabbings.

But that doesn't mean I don't believe in swine flu but I also believe in seasonal flu killing people, in TB making a deadly comeback in poor nations and pneumonia with its share of plague.

Still a virus that is resistance to medications like Tamiflu is not unusual and is been happening more and more with the TB in 2006 was found in Africa that was more deadly due to completely resistance to antibiotics.

But that is nature, it happens all the time, bird flu, swine flu they all has been around and sporadically bursting in certain nations but usually in very poor areas.

A super killer virus I don't put to much thought on that one, when I start seen death rates all around me growing 100% due to viral and bacterial infections then I will change my mind.

So far statistics show that swine flu is nothing more than another regular flu when it comes to infections and deaths, at least here in the US.

Why bother with conspiracies that we are all going to die? because that is what the money profiteers wants that is their wet dreams come true.

In my neck of the woods life goes as usual. and I am still trying to find anybody that actually have or had the swine flu . . .

reply to post by JBA2848


Every reinfection case I've read about to date has been from a mild case indicating low viral load. I had the exact same experience myself.

There's something about the damage this flu does to the body that leaves people primed for bacterial infections - pneumonia and generalized staph are the two big ones.

The mild version of the virus is weird, it doesn't hit you with fever or stomach upset all that bad, it's mainly feeling like a truck ran over you and the cough is very, very bad. Painfully bad. I can recognize the cough in people now, it has a distinct sound. Very wet, long and deep coughs.

Most of the reinfections I've heard about including my own happened within a month or two after the first one, with the immune system drag it leaves you in there's always the chance the virus never really left and eventually overcomes the immune system again.

Low viral load infections are unique like that. They don't hit your immune system quickly, its more of a long, drawn out thing and the theory right now is that the cells the virus prefers to infect have a lot to do with mild cases / low viral load not triggering a long term immune response.

When you get the vaccine it's a high viral load but w/ a dead virus. Unlike the mild infections a lot of vaccine patients actually get a fever (which is not abnormal, it's an indication of the immune system getting that "read" on the virus you need to build long term immunity).

There are some indications that the virus might have shifted enough to make a new vaccine necessary but nothing solid right now. Like I said, it's too late to run out and get the shot right now while a wave is underway. It might be worth considering just before the first of the year once we know for sure if it still works and before the third wave hits.

There is a lot of talk that the third wave might be the full on, 1918 level horror show. Right now the virus hasn't made that one key mutation it needs to get there so let's just hope it runs out of warm bodies before it gets to that point.

reply to post by Kailassa


Thanks for the tips, I am into herbal medicine with very good results from blood pressure to OTC pain killers and anti inflammatory alternatives.

I am going to see a acupuncturist next week and he also works with herbs, lets see what he have to say about anti viral and anti bacterial alternative medicine to fight any of virus going around right now.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by marg6043]

The 1918 virus pandemic was only around for about 2 years in full force. If this is similar than we have been into the pandemic for 8 months now so we have 1 year and 4 months to go. We are almost half way through this pandemic and it is probably at the peak now. There were so many threads on the swine flu I just put this on of the more popular ones. I am interested in everyone's thoughts on my theory.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by dreamseeker]