It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

page: 228
<< 225  226  227    229  230  231 >>

log in


posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 04:04 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

To imply that hemmorhagic disease is from H1N1 is a stretch and a half, even coming from a robot of H1N1 philosophy.

The logic is that since H1N1 caused 1918 that anything that happened hemmorhage-wise was also caused by H1N1. But nobody is absolutely certain that H1N1 did the killing in the catastrophic hemmorhages of1918.

In fact, a press release, issued on August 19, 2008, by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), contains a striking finding and conclusion: The 20 to 40 million deaths worldwide from the great 1918 Influenza ("Flu") Pandemic were NOT due to "flu" or a virus, but to pneumonia caused by massive bacterial infection." The last time I checked H1N1 was still being called a virus. Although stay tuned, that too could change at any moment as the great H1N1 spin doctors fashion explanations for everything from heart disease to black lung to hemmorhage cloacked in sequences they manipulate, permafrost digs in which they add phenol to kill any bacteria that crawls and other manipulations.

Subsequently, a study published in JAMA by Talbot and Moore in 2000 showed that Mexican immigrants to the US have the highest case rates for tuberculosis among foreign born persons. Mexico is the country where Swine Flu deaths were first documented. Or am I wrong there as well?

Yet in true H1N1 advocacy fashion, everything that comes up in the course of a pandemic that is in reality just FLU-LIKE, according to Lancet, is immediately adopted to fit the H1N1 model. H1N1 is not the only disease to cause "cytokine storm" and this has been mentioned twice in this Forum.

And if you have 50 scientific papers regarding H1N1 and Hemmorhage, than surely I have, in return 5,000 pointing to how TB and the atypical mycobacteria are classic for hemmorhagic disease of the lung. Even layman understand that hemoptysis or the coughing up of blood, a common symptom of hemmorhagic lung disease has been classic for this disease for thousands of years.

One dosen't need Mexican Swine Influenza to explain that. So spin on with your H1N1. Maybe its next name will be R2D2 when your "H" and "N"'s have been realized to be of bacterial origin.

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:33 PM
reply to post by calohan

Interesting when I did my research in anything that had to do with the big pandemic of 1918 I also came across with the finding of the 1915 and 1916 outbreak of unusual higher cases of bacterial infections at the time it was known as lung disease, by the time the third wave of 1918 influenza hit many of the deaths were actually in the compromised population.

Still many of the studies attribute this outbreak to the great war when it was masses of population moving around as per CDC accounts.

The major group of TB infections in the US is like you said within the immigrant and so is leprosy and intestinal parasites that are due to people poor conditions and eating, specially uncooked meats.

Also the now otherwise rare brain worms that has been found in the US in also immigrant people.

You know is more than meet the eye when it comes to diseases that used to be actually controlled and even eradicated in the US.

As usual poor health conditions and lack of health care, still in a pandemic most of the people that are in the latest category will fall pray of the worst case scenarios with sporadic cases that may look and sound like a new mutating virus because is so rare to the US medical community.

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 08:45 PM
reply to post by calohan

Just to clear the sky: I'm in no way proponent of "H1N1 religion" - I try to keep open mind.

Disastrous TB (+ antibiotics resistant strain) rates at Ukraine were discussed earlier in this thread. I think we are also aware of synergistic effects of various bugs. Also we take into account overall health care level and other diseases - even we know about Chernobyl accident back in eighties. Also we know that WHO and almost every government are lying and that this all is for them and BigPharma primarily massive money scam. Also we know that few other bugs take yearly much more lives than somehow hyped flu - in this context we discussed flu hype as cover up of real problems. One of side goals of this thread is IMO uncovering such lies.

With this in mind let me say that to diagnose TB in deadly stadium is very easy. It is also - even for WHO - impossible to cook data all around the globe so that TB deaths are swapped with flu deaths. Or, all physicians around world are so dumb that they don't recognize TB?
On other side mutated A/H1N1 flu living deep in lungs, undetectable by common tests (till autopsy), is explanation coherent with (bit fuzzy) data we have. I'll stick with KISS rule.

EDIT to add:
As for Czech Rep. (situation is very different here than at Ukraine): TB is handled very seriously by all levels of medical system. One physician was sued because she let some Ukraine guy to go to hospital by public transport with just diagnosed TB and guy disappeared. Second stadium TB cases by law must be cured at special infection part of hospital with higher level security - there are two fences at visitor area with 1,5 m of noman land between. If somebody leave area without permit, they call police immediately. I know it all well, my friend was locked there with second stadium and it is one year back when I was at first stadium.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by zeddissad]

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 10:42 PM
reply to post by zeddissad

Very interesting. But there's more than meets the idea regarding the present "swine flu" epidemic in the Ukraine. Remember, when the outbreak occurred, it's Ministry of Health was very careful to say it could be H1N1, not that it was. The only thing they were certain of was that it presented as the Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). ARDS and TB are no strangers.

Ukraine is a hotbed of drug-resistant TB. TB itself is not easy to diagnose without invasive procedures. These used to be done, but are rarely being pursued now and include not only bronchospy with tissue biopsy, but liver, bone marrow and, when called for, spinal taps with stains and cultures of the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF).

But when you get into the arena of drug-resistant strains, in which the Ukraine is the 5th highest in the world, you are dealing with mutations and recombinations between different forms of tuberculosis such as Mycobacterium avium (often found in Swine TB), with human and others, and these are even more difficult to find, stain and culture.

Furthermore, according to Mattman, the preferred form of any of the mycobacteria, including TB, is their viral-like cell-wall-deficient (CWD) forms. And these require special stains (some of them fluorescent) and cultures not even regularly employed in US labs, no less third world countries. Moreover, even PCR (polymerase chain reactors) which are supposed to amplify diseases like TB, which often have few pathogens available for stain or culture, are not as accurate as we would like in the case of not only TB, but atypical TB (such as fowl or swine TB). Many have moved to "home-brewed" PCR's, but to little avail, although their efficacy is greater than the ones commercially available.

Is the TB skin test of value? No. A negative skin test merely means that the body cannot muster an antigen-antibody reaction in the skin because of its state of immunosuppression from longstanding disease. So negative skin tests mean nothing, only positive skin tests. To add to this, within the last 5 years, certain powers in American medicine, based upon a couple of studies done some 40 years back, have decided that all but the 5 tuberculin unit (5TU) skin test should be removed from the market, something which no other country limits itself to. Before this it was routine to move to a higher strength skin test (250 TU) if the first strength (5TU) proved negative. And often the skin tests results came back and were accepted as positive in the 250 TU range, so treatment, prophylactic or other wise could be instituted. No more.

What about chest X-rays? Chest x-rays are notoriously inaccurate and rarely present a classic picture for tuberculosis. It has been known for decades that they only register positive with changes of lung density, and if both lungs are homogenously infected with no density change, they will be read as negative even with disease.

So to say that it is "easy to diagnose" TB, from the Ukraine or elsewhere is inaccurate. That is why, despite the fact that WHO has made clear that 1/3 of the people on this planet have TB and that 2 million people a year die from TB, it is still being grossly under reported.

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 10:44 PM
Hey, Asen,

Ok, I'm back from work. I finally got a chance to copy what the book says about her top 4 flu remedies for epidemics.

Here it is. From the book called "homeoapthy for epidemics" by Eileen Nauman, DHM (UK)

This book has many many chapters on many epidemics, I'm only going to write what she says about her top 4 flu remedies. She also has a section for flu remedies with headache, but I don't recall people mentioning headache as a major symptom, so I won't write about those for now. If later on, you're finding patients with a very specific set of symptoms, let me know, and I'll see what I can find.

The 4 flu remedies she mentions are aconite, gelsemium, eupatorium, and baptisia.
This is what she writes about them:

Homeopathic remedies for the flu and colds

Acontum napellus.
One great pre-flu remedy is aconitum napellus, or aconite. You can get a 30 c potency and it will serve you well. If you can catch the flu or cold in while it’s in what I call its quasi stage, no true symptoms have yet appeared-, then take aconite, one dose every hour for htree hours in a row. That should stop the cold or flu in its tracks and you won’t get it. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? Almost unbelieveable, right, Yes, but it works.
The trick again, is to realize you’re feeling a little down, maybe having less energy, feeling less pedky or a little mentally dull, followed by the arrival of specific symptoms such as headache, fever or sniffles. If you take the aconite after any of these symptoms have manifested, then it won’t stop the flu or cold at all.

Gelsemium sempervirens

Gelsemium sempervirens is a premier flu remedy and as a matter of fact, it’s one of the remedies that saved thousands of lives during the great flu epidemic of 1918 when over 500,000 people died. Want another statistic? During that time, homeopathy was on a decline, thatnks to the politicking of the American Medical Association (AMA) and allopathic medicine (what is practicd in this country now) was on the rise. When the flu epidemic ravaged this country, both allopathic and homeopathic physicians attended their ill patients. Here are the facts : 80 percent of the patients treated with allopathic drugs died. 80% of the patients treated homeopathically lived. That’s a pretty obvious difference between the effects of two forms of medicine.
Gelsemium is yellow jasmine. It is of great use for the flu symptoms that have taken one or two days to come on. The person will usually feel lethargic and fatigued, be sleeping more than usual, be less chipper or alert than usual, or just fel draggy without any flu symptoms yet. Once the flu doees arrive, the person feels like a serious couch potato, not wanting to move but just sitting like a lump, eyes partly closed and feeling absolutely fatigued. The person may say her or his arms and legs feel as if they were weighted down.

Other key notes for gelsmium are:
-Chills running up and down the back
-aching and stiffness in the neck which extend to the forehead
-chills beginning in the hands or feet
-heaviness or trembling of the limbs, especially the legs
-imrpovment of symptoms after urination
-headache that begins in the rear of the skull and moves to the forehead.
-Sensation of a tight band around the head
-soreness of the scalp
-Summer colds with sneezing, fever and watery mucous/discharge
-chills alternative with heat up and down the back

Eupatorium perfoliatum
Eupatorium is another one of the premier flu remedies and it saved thousands of lives in 1918. Aching bone pain with fever is the hallmark symptom of this remedy. All of us have gotten the type of flu that makes us feel as if our bonesare so tender and brittle that they will break with the pain.
Here are the other keynote symptoms that would guide you to take this remedy if you get the flu:
-high fever preceeded by chills, around 7am to 9am
-a craving for cold foods, such as ice cream-
-excruciating back pain
-great thirst for cold drinks curing chills
-head feeling heavy during headache
-nausea and vomiting that are worse during chills and dduring motion
-high fever with chills.
-restlessness with intense aching of bones and muscles, stiffness and achiness

Baptisia tinctoria.
Baptisia is another great flu remedy; it is especially good when the person appears to be drunk without having been drinking. It’s just the severeity of the flu symptoms that makes the person seem “besotted.”
Here are the keynotes of the symptoms. If they fit what you’re experiencing, try this remedy:
-great mental confusion, dullness of mental faculties, stupor, comalike
-swift onset of the flu
-offensive odors of the mouth, stool and perspiration
-bruised pains that are uncomfortable, no matter what position you try, the bed feels too hard.
-red, dusky confestion of face.
-ulcerated and red throat that is pain free, even upon swallowing
-sorenesss all over body, especially the part on which you lie.
-thickness of tongue with slurred speech, inability to put intelligible sentences together.

Dosage for any of the above remedies is 30c, usually once an hour for 3 hours. That should arrest the worst of your flu symptoms. If it does not, it is the wrong remedy and you should stop taking it. Ideally if you have a homeopath, call her or him first and he/she will suggest a remedy that is correct for you.....


Also, last but not least, you will probably find this article very helpful. It is written by a Dr. Manish Bhatia from India, a homeopathic physician, and he seems to be staying on top of the epidemic pretty well.

He mentions some of the same remedies above listed in Nauman's book, but also a few more. He writes a monthly newsletter, and so you might keep checking back to his website once a month, in case he posts new updated information about the pandemic.

He also has his e-mail address listed on there, and he might be a good person to follow up with with any questions. (He's an expert, I'm still a relative beginner at homeopathy.)

Best of luck!

[edit on 26-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 10:58 PM
reply to post by zeddissad

"It is also - even for WHO - impossible to cook data all around the globe so that TB deaths are swapped with flu deaths. Or, all physicians around world are so dumb that they don't recognize TB?"

WHO isn't cooking anything and physicians around the world aren't so dumb. Both know that TB is on the top of the differential diagnosis list for the flu-like symptoms that H1N1 presents with. What they both are doing is the following: in those cases in which they decide to do diagnostic testing, they are only doing it for H1N1 and under no circumstances TB. Check for yourself.

So its not "cooking" stats or being "dumb". It's simply that they do no not want to cause hysteria. Because if you think H1N1 causes hysteria, you haven't seen anything. Look what happened when 1 American got on a plane with active TB. It was picked up by every channel in the country. So do you think WHO or physicians want their phones ringing off the hook should one test come back positive for the disease. The answer is, no way. So they go back to plan two, just ignore it.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by calohan]

posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:06 PM
Calohan's entries are a remarkable parallel of my brother-in-law's experiences. He is a GP physician who has made inquiries and studied the current evidence being published by so-called "authorities" including WHO, CDC, FDA and special interest genetic reporting sites.

When compared with his hands-on clinical experience, he has not been convinced that a pathogenic agent partially composed of the binary Hemagglutinin-neuraminidase binding properties, as favored by the above mentioned agencies, is the proximate cause of the pneumonic and tubercular threats.

The alleged micrograph incident heavily questioned by the Germans, and the silly hype surrounding H1N1 promotions (not to mention a TOOTHPASTE COMMERCIAL WHICH MENTIONS ITS PROPHYLACTIC PROPERTIES RE H1N1) have caused him to laugh out loud.

He has found that treating his patients with methodologies most common to the treatment of TB and pneumonia (rather than Oseltamivir and zanamivir) has been far more efficacious. In general we have a cart-and-horse question which is more logically and clearly answered by Calohan's posts than any other. Treating these illnesses as if they are conclusively or exclusively viral in origin, may waste valuable time and resources needed to medicate against the real cause.


posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 12:11 AM
reply to post by PHARMAHOAX

Thank you.

Also, be assured that Hemmaglutin (H) and Neuramidase (N) are not unique to Influenza A or the current Swine Flu, but have been attributed as well to TB and the Mycobacteria as well as related Nocardia species. In fact the earliest work on Hemmaglutin was directed towards the Hemmaglutin in tuberculosis and it has plenty of neuramidase as well.

Also be assured that tests like the complement fixation, the forebearer of all subsequent antigen/antibody tests that diagnose Influenza A and Swine Flu where confirmed by Xalabarder to be able to pick up TB and its viral, cell-wall-deficient forms long ago.

It is not easy to do what your brother-in-law is doing, but it seems to be the right thing. We are not dealing with classical TB here, but a virulent mutation with fowl TB (M. Avium) which predominates in Swine as well, which in this case was its apparent vehicle into humans. Thus "Swine Flu". Patients and the public have always tolerated the word "Flu" better than a certain killer. In fact it is my belief that if science did not bow to this wish, the public would still insist that their feeling under the whether was just the "flu". It comforts them, usually. And it is much much easier for a physician or public health official to talk in terms of even H1N1 then what we are suggesting.

In today's climate, of course, the PDR drugs accepted for tuberculosis are the standard ethambutol, pyrazinamide, rifampin, and in cases INH (isoniazid) but zithromax and even the floxacins have partial activity. But an even more potent drug, the aminoglycocides are under scrutiny for toxicity (as if Tamiflu doesn't have toxicity). I refer in particular to amikacin. Furthermore, none of the aminoglycosides (many off patent) have ever been produced in a vehicle other than by injection.........a major hinderence to progress. But there are few strains resistant to amikacin. We know that at least 3 agents should be given for active, established disease. We also know that there hasn't been a new drug for tuberculosis in 30 years. I guess it would not be profitable enough.

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 12:17 AM
reply to post by calohan

So your theory is that every Dr and Nurse and associated personnel in every country around the World stricken with H1N1 is covering up that TB is actually at work just to prevent "panic"?

I think your theory is worthy of it's own thread. Why don't you start one so it can be discussed there instead of thread jacking this one?

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 01:00 AM
Lest we remind you the name of the thread is "Number of victims to UNKNOWN virus growing!"

It is not titled "Number of victims to H1N1 virus growing!!" So until that time, I think every theory should be left on the table.

I too feel the so called "virus" looks more like bacteria and/or fungal infection is what is going on here.

1. Is it H1N1? Does not respond to antivirals and/or has become Tamiflu

2. Is it Plague? Antibiotics are used treat Plague. Illness has not responded
to antibiotics.

3. Is it hemorrhagic fever? Yes it causes hemorrhaging, but is its origin
hemorrhagic? Probably not . If it was, an antiviral known as Ribavirin
would have been used to treat.

4. Is it bacterial? Maybe, we know that antibiotics alone do not help, but
when used in conjunction with other meds, they have had some success.

5. Is it fungal? Yes, there is a fungal aspect here.

I know that the antifungal Flucanozole has been used to treat cryptococcal meningitis Birds are the carriers of Cryptococci. Their droppings contaminate the soil and get into the water reservoirs. When inhaled they can cause life threatening infection known as Encephalitis meningitis. They can attack the brain or lungs directly.

Here are the drugs used in the Ukraine and their indications:

a. arbidol-antiviral for resistant Influenza

b. amizon-new drug used to treat the mumps.

c. flucanozole-antifungal /aspergillus, treatment of cryptococcal meningitis

d. linezolid-antibiotic/Bacterial pneumonia, MRSA, Drug resist. Tuberculosis

e. extrapenem-antibiotic/ Pseudomonas Aeruginosa (ivanz)

f. levofloxacin-antibiotic/ Lower Respiratory infections

g. clarithromycin-antibiotic/ Respiratory infections (Biaxin)

h. amoksitsylin-antibiotic/ Broad spectrum (Amoxicillin)

i. azithromycin lyophilized-antibiotic/ Community Acquired Pneumonia, accute bacterial Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (zithromax)

j. vancomycin-antibiotic/ Broad spectrum

k. tseftopiprol-antibiotic/ MRSA, Plague

l. doripenem-antibiotic/ Pseudomonas Aeruginosa

m. pipekuroniniyu bromide-steroid/methyl prednisone

n. noradrenaline/Noradrenaline (BAN) (abbreviated NA or NAd) or norepinephrine (INN) (abbreviated norepi or NE) is a catecholamine with dual roles as a hormone and a neurotransmitter.

However, when norepinephrine acts as a drug it will increase blood pressure by its prominent increasing effects on the vascular tone from α-adrenergic receptor activation.

The resulting increase in vascular resistance triggers a compensatory reflex that overcomes its direct stimulatory effects on the heart, called the baroreceptor reflex, which results in a drop in heart rate called reflex bradycardia.

o. dopamir/ (dopamine)-Dopamine can be supplied as a medication that acts on the sympathetic nervous system, producing effects such as increased heart rate and blood pressure.

p. dobutamine-Dobutamine is a sympathomimetic drug used in the treatment of heart failure and cardiogenic shock.

q. dexamethasone-steroid

r. paracetamol/fever and pain reducer (tylenol)

s.amphitericin B-Amphotericin B- antifungal (Fungilin, Fungizone, Abelcet, AmBisome, Fungisome, Amphocil, Amphotec) is a polyene antifungal drug, often used intravenously for systemic fungal infections.

It was originally extracted from Streptomyces nodosus, a filamentous bacterium, in 1955 at the Squibb Institute for Medical Research from cultures of an undescribed streptomycete isolated from the soil collected in the Orinoco River region of Venezuela. Its name originates from the chemical's amphoteric properties.

Two amphotericins, Amphotericin A and Amphotericin B are known, but only B is used clinically because it is significantly more active in vivo.

One of the main intravenous uses is in treating various systemic fungal infections (e.g. in critically ill, comorbidly infected or immunocompromised patients), including cryptococcal meningitis.

Amphotericin B is also commonly used in tissue culture to prevent fungi from contaminating cell cultures. It is usually sold in a concentrated solution, either on its own or in combination with the antibiotics penicillin and streptomycin.

Side effects

Amphotericin B is well-known for its severe and potentially lethal side effects. Very often a serious acute reaction after the infusion (1 to 3 hours later) is noted consisting of high fever, shaking chills, hypotension, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, headache, dyspnea, and tachypnea, drowsiness, generalised weakness.

This reaction sometimes subsides with later applications of the drug and may in part be due to histamine liberation. An increase in prostaglandin-synthesis may also play a role. This nearly universal febrile response necessitates a critical (and diagnostically difficult) professional determination as to whether the onset of high fever is a novel symptom of a fast-progressing disease, or merely the induced effect of the drug.

In order to decrease the likelihood and severity of the symptoms, initial doses should be low and increased slowly. Acetaminophen, pethidine, diphenhydramine and/or hydrocortisone have all been used to treat or prevent the syndrome, but the prophylactic use of these drugs is often limited by the patient's condition.

Intravenously administered Amphotericin B has also been associated with multiple organ damage in therapeutic doses.

Nephrotoxicity (kidney damage) is a frequently reported side-effect, and can be severe and/or irreversible. It is much milder when delivered via liposomes (AmBisome) if possible.

Electrolyte imbalances (e.g. hypokalemia and hypomagnesemia) may also result. In the liver, increased liver enzymes and hepatotoxicity (up to and including fulminant liver failure) are common.

In the circulatory system, several forms of anemia and other blood dyscrasias (leukopenia, thrombopenia), serious cardiac arrhythmias (including ventricular fibrillation), and even frank cardiac failure have been reported.

Skin reactions, including serious forms, are also possible.

**NOTE: The side effects**

So you see, a lot of medication points away from H1N1 virus alone. More of fungal, or bacterial in nature.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by paxnatus]

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 01:20 AM
Has it been tested positive as H1N1? Yes

Has it been genetically isolated and sequenced as H1N1? Yes

The "Unknown" title of the thread was from quite a while back before all the test results came in. Despite all the confusion in Ukraine back then as of today the only people claiming something other than swine flu killed all those people are a few specific people on this thread.

That kind of theory really should have it's own thread but apparently people are worried it won't get the kind of attention it gets by spamming other threads. I especially like how everyone involved likes to take up entire pages posting nothing in the way of proof.

Have at it, I'd prefer to ignore it completely and concentrate on the real topic of the discussion - news and updates on Ukraine. If everyone else enjoys the distraction who am I to complain? How many alternate pathogens is this now, by the way? 6?

Any more brand new accounts coming to assist in the thread spam?

edit to add: I hope those mile long posts aren't for my benefit, I'd hate for all that effort to go to waste when I stopped reading past the first paragraph of them back when the "plague" was the "pathogen de jour" of the "anything but what every Dr and scientist in the World say it is" team.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 01:40 AM

Originating Laboratory
provider of clinical specimen(s)
and/or virus isolate(s) [Ukraine, Kiev] Ministry of Health of Ukraine
Address: Central Sanitary Epidemiological Station 41 Yaroslavskaya str. 04071 Kiev Ukraine
Sample ID given by the sample provider
Submitting Laboratory
generator of data [UK, London] WHO Collaborating Centre
Address: The National Institute for Medical Research (NIMR) The Ridgeway - Mill Hill London NW7 1AA, UK
Sample ID given by the sequencing lab:
Antigenic characterisation: A/California/7/2009 like. Low reactor

Isolate ID: EPI_ISL_62012
Isolate name: A/Lviv/N6/2009
Passage details/history: throat swab
Type: A / H1N1
Lineage: swl

The above isolate has been designated a low reactor by Mill Hill.

This would fall into the EXTREMELY bad news category. It means that not only does D225G drive the H1N1 to the lungs, but it allows the virus to evade the natural immune response / vaccine.
(Latest comment on update by Dr Niman)

[edit on 27-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 04:04 AM

D225G Evades Immune Response
Recombinomics Commentary 08:18
November 27, 2009

Antigenic characterisation: A/California/7/2009 like. Low reactor

The above comment is for the updated characterization sheet for A/Lviv/N6/2009, one of the four isolates from fatal cases in Ukraine. All four isolates had D225G, and in the above isolate that was the only non-synonymous change in HA, indicating the polymorphism was escaping from the immune response.

D225G is in the receptor binding domain and therefore at the surface of HA, and several different polymorphism were noted at that position (D225G, D225E and D225N) suggesting the changes were to escape from the immune response. Moreover the change was appearing on multiple different genetic backgrounds. This is not surprising, since position 225 is in an antigenic site and D225N was linked to the establishment of S31N in the H3N2 population.

However, this low reactor status is in marked contrast to earlier studies on vaccine target clones, which indicated D225G produce no difference in titer, highlighting the vagaries of reference anti-sera data.

This escape could also explain the increases in reported D225G cases as well as increases in hospitalizations and death.

More information on the discrepancy in results from two reference anti-seras would be useful.

This is the latest, what does it mean?

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 04:42 AM
reply to post by nikiano

I spoke to a local homeopath, and surprising he to asked me to take Gelsimium and eupatorium and also said that 'Bryonia' is also good for viral fever. I think it should also be added to the list.
I have bought the bryonia 200 and Gelsimium 1M and taking them along with me! Now I am going to buy the Eupatorium
But dunno the enteractions of these drugs with Oseltamivir(Tamiflu). So lets see. I ain't gonna just take homeopathy without also taking tamiflu. Being a med student we have been taugh that homeopathy dilutes to sucjh extents the active ingrediants are virtually not present

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 04:47 AM
reply to post by calohan

I must apologize - my initial post was bit rude. Also I want to thank you for your enlightening posts.
First I was taking into account only "normal" (mycobacterium tuberculosis caused) form of TB.
Second mistake I did, that I was too bounded to Czech Rep. situation where is relatively low incidence of TB. In fact TB was almost exterminated here during communist reign.
My view is that combination of skin test, X-ray image and experienced physician is sufficient for preliminary diagnosis of active disease. But this will probably work only in some situations. Skin tests will be useless among population with high overall TB incidence because almost everybody in such society was in contact with bacteria. At countries, where health care system is somehow corrupted, will for sure work your not-testing scenario.
There is possibility that something similar sometime happen in Cz. but I'm pretty sure that it is not on daily basis. Physicians here are afraid of criminal charges if they mishandle TB.

Once again thank for your insight.

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 07:49 AM

Originally posted by asen_y2k
reply to post by nikiano

I spoke to a local homeopath, and surprising he to asked me to take Gelsimium and eupatorium and also said that 'Bryonia' is also good for viral fever. I think it should also be added to the list.
I have bought the bryonia 200 and Gelsimium 1M and taking them along with me! Now I am going to buy the Eupatorium
But dunno the enteractions of these drugs with Oseltamivir(Tamiflu). So lets see. I ain't gonna just take homeopathy without also taking tamiflu. Being a med student we have been taugh that homeopathy dilutes to sucjh extents the active ingrediants are virtually not present

Bryonia, eh? I recommended that one for my dad for his occasional back pain, and it works great, but I never thought of it for a viral fever. Great, though!

Yeah, don't worry, you can take regular medicines with homeopathy...they won't interact with each other because homeoapthy is so dilute. Homeopathy works on the basis of "like cures like" whereas pharmaceuticals work differently.

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 08:37 AM
Hey, I just thought of something. With regards to the TB argument, BOTH sides of the argument might be right.

Ok, I'm just going to throw this out and you can choose to accept it or not, but here it goes. I think I've told you all that I was a pharmacist for many years before I went to school to study homeopathy.

In homeopathy school, we are taught about things called "miasms." Miasms are basically the effects of chronic diseases that are passed on from generation to generation. The three original miasms discovered by Dr. Hahnemann (the German physician who founded homeopathic medicine) were the psoric miasm (suppressed itch), the sycotic miasm (suppressed gonorrhea) and the syphillitic miasm (suppressed syphillis). Nowadays, wtih more chronic diseases, there are also the cancer miasm, the tubercular miasm, the malarial miasm, the AIDS miasm, etc.... you get the picture.

Here is my theory: this pandemic is hitting those people hardest who have the TUBERCULAR MIASM.....and hitting the areas the hardest that have endemic TB. This is why we are seeing tubercular symptoms, but not finding the tubercular microorganisms. It's because what could be happening is that we are seeing the expression of the tubercular miasm at work.....the effects of suppressed tuberculosis is popping up now due to a pandemic.

This could most definitely be why we are seeing this epidemic hit those areas that have been hardest hit by tuberculosis....the TB miasm would be very widespread there.

The miasmatic approach to disease and pandemics (in addition to the microbiologic approach to disease and pandemics) would explain why we are seeing this pandemic hit those areas the hardest with the highest incidence of TB, why the symptoms seem to somewhat match TB. It would also explain why we are not finding TB organisms in cultures.

Many people think that because Hahhmann didn't talk about germs, he didn't believe in them. Not at all. He created homeopathy BEFORE germs were discovered. Homeopaths don't discount the existence of disease, they just realize there is also something more at work than just germs. This is one of the reasons why you can have 10 people exposed to the same virus, and not everybody will catch the disease. You also have to have an inherent succeptibility to the disease, too.

Both the "germ theory" of disease and the "miasmatic theory" of disease can co-exist together. By each side understanding the other side, we can come to a more complete understanding of disease, and we can come to a better system of treatment, also.


If any of you would like me to explain the miasmatic theory of disease and the tubercular miasm in more detail let me know and I'll do my best to be brief.

**A note of interest: Miasms are not only inherited by your ancestors, but they can also be acquired. One of the ways you can acquire a miasm is through vaccines. This is another reason why I don't get vaccines.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 08:45 AM
reply to post by nikiano

Well I am glad you catch up with it, that is what we the ones that doesn't subscribe to the gloom and doom theory of killing viruses are trying to figure out, after all "one of the reasons" 1918 pandemic was so deadly was due also to "underlying bacterial infections going on in the US at the time".

Ukraine with so many infectious diseases running rampant in the nation and with a very sad historical background have an open door to what could be called the repeat of 1918 killer pandemic.

That doesn't mean that we all around the world will be facing the same fate, but that Ukraine and many other poor countries with underlying higher rates of infectious diseases will be hit worst under any seasonal or year around influenza infections.

More and more I am confident that the swine flu will be what is has been so far, just another flu going around all year.

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 09:14 AM
'We have sent the analyses to Kiev. We don't believe it's H1N1 swine flu. Neither do we know what kind of pneumonia it is.'
Read more:

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 09:38 AM

WHO Advisors Paid By H1N1 Vaccine Makers Profiting On Fear?

Mind you, Mill Hill, where they came up with these "viral" sequences is a WHO lab. So the circle of the cycle completes. WHO labs doing ONLY H1N1 diagnostics and no other tests, confirming to vaccine makers that they were right, right along. Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by calohan]

[edit on 27-11-2009 by calohan]

new topics

top topics

<< 225  226  227    229  230  231 >>

log in