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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 11:28 PM
There is a physician on Coast to Coast tonight talking about the H1N1 vaccine. Very interesting if anyone can catch it right now.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:20 AM
I'm not aware of TB ever being able to test positive as flu either. Not to mention the genetic sequences, that's one scary TB that can disguise itself as swine flu down to the genetic level....

People with mild flu cases aren't being tested. Every hospital case IS tested.

I posted a map of flu activity in Europe earlier, is it the popular theory now that Doctors in all those nations are going along with the cover up to hide TB infections as swine flu?

Every conspiracy brings out the extremists, I suppose.

If you think Jedi and I are the only people on ATS who don't believe in the big fairy tale I've got bad news for you. Most of the members just don't bother to post about it.

I've had numerous people look into my alternate theory and realize it's correct. That's more than enough justification for trying for me. According to my theory it's the people here who try to scare or convince people to avoid taking precautions who are "agents" of some sort.

It's funny how a constant chain of brand new members keep appearing to fight that fight. I don't see that going on from this side.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:55 AM
H1N1Nederland Reuters: China expert warns of pandemic flu mutation #swineflu #h1n1 #schweinegrippe #griep
10 minutes ago from web

394 deaths, reported (in total) yesterday

[edit on 25-11-2009 by infinite]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 07:29 AM

Originally posted by infinite
H1N1Nederland Reuters: China expert warns of pandemic flu mutation #swineflu #h1n1 #schweinegrippe #griep
10 minutes ago from web

394 deaths, reported (in total) yesterday

[edit on 25-11-2009 by infinite]

Thanks for the link Infinite.

The most important bit that jumped out at me, other than figures being concealed was

WHO reported more than 526,060 laboratory confirmed cases of H1N1 worldwide on November 15, with at least 6,770 deaths. However, it has stressed for months now that the figures were only the tip of the iceberg.

It urged countries to place more resources on mitigating the disease rather then on costly prevention measures or testing everyone. All WHO and the U.S. CDC will say is that "millions" have been infected.

Its awful that 6,770 people have officially died from H1N1 during the last 7 months but with "millions" infected the figures don't translate to a high mortality rate. Even if we add in all the other things that could have gone on the official death certificates instead of swine flu (such as pneumonia) the mortality rate probably still wouldn't be very high.

I'm still struggling to see what all the panic is about.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Maya00a
I'm still struggling to see what all the panic is about.

Part of the education process I suppose. We learn a new concept on the news and when we disect it we panic a little because of lack of knowledge.
Yearly world death toll for flu is 500,000. A billion cases, 3-5 million severe.
Doesn't even look like we are close with H1N1.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by JJay55]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 07:52 AM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

TB kills in a matter of weeks according to the authorative Wikipedia? Spoken like a true laywoman. "Cytokine storm?" Do you think that just H1N1 causes cytokine storm? Get real.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by jedi_hamster
. . .
and people doing everything to spread false information, should be locked up at best.

For all we know it could be you and Eco spreading the false information.
Should we lock you up?

How many cases in the Ukraine, to date, have tested positive for swine flu? And how many people have died with no pathology test confirming the cause of death?
How many died from cytokine storm and how many died of slower, more normal causes?

The fact is, we don't have answers which prove TB is not the cause of many of the recent Ukraine deaths.
And you have the cheek to say people theorising about possibilities other than swine flu should be locked up.

Shame on you, coming to a discussion board like this and trying to silence discussion in such a manner.

it's DANGEROUS, can you understand that? you're playing with people's minds and their life my depend on this.

Can anyone else hear the barking of the sheep-dogs as they herd the sheep toward the immunisation pens?

Couldn't have said it better myself Kailassa. You are to be applauded for your words and the truth they represent.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 08:11 AM

Originally posted by JJay55
Yearly world death toll for flu is 500,000. A billion cases, 3-5 million severe.

those are estimates. on the other hand, H1N1 stats are laboratory confirmed cases. that's why they're saying it's a tip of an iceberg. they're telling you the truth.
just... not all of it.

calohan: facts or go back praying to Jane Sheepmeister.

over and out.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 09:14 AM
reply to post by calohan

Yes, and how peculiar is it that we even ask amongst ourselves, who are 'they'? Well, 'they' are plainly right here with us, attempting to guide the discussion with hidden hands, disguised as skeptical posters.

You gotta love it. Game's almost over, and we know the light is shining on the darkness to illuminate the truth for humanity. Also known as Revelations.

Be free of their fear tactics, because it is their last stand.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 09:39 AM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

"calohan: facts or go back praying to Jane Sheepmeister."

I am not aware of such an individual Hampster, and I'd like to see a lot more facts, and less H1N1 worship, coming from your side while you're at it. Put your facts down and don't tell me who to pray to.

When Ukranian emergency hospital chief Myron Borysevych was approached regarding the deadly epidemic that had just begun in their midst, he said to reporters: “We don’t believe it’s H1N1 swine flu. Neither do we know what kind of pneumonia it is.”

Pneumonia can be viral. Pneumonia can be bacterial, in the case of a microoraganism such as Strep or Staph and pneumonia can be mycobacterial in the case of tuberculosis or atypical tuberculosis such as the avian TB, predominantly found in swine. .

When Ukranian health officials first reported the epidemic to The Ukranian Weekly of Sunday, November 8th, 2009 they reported that of 96 confirmed deaths, all were attributed to pneumonia, which “COULD have been caused by the H1N1 virus, seasonal flu or an unspecified ARD” (Acute Respiratory Distress, also called ARDS or Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome).

Roger, among others favors suspecting tuberculosis in all cases of acute respiratory failure of unknown origin (Roger P. M., Deloffre Prognosis of acute tuberculosis respiratory distress syndrome, Press Med 1995; 24(22): 1021–1024.). One thing is certain, ARDS caused by miliary TB is associated with an extremely high and relatively quick fatality rate. (Kim J. Y., Park Y. B. Miliary tuberculosis and acute respiratory distress syndrome. Int J Tuberc Lung Dis 2003; 7(4): 359–364.)

Even prior to the Ukrainian onslaught, in March, Ihor Pokanevych, head of WHO in the Ukraine had issued a stern warning: “We have registered the growth of TB infection cases in Ukraine. Throughout the last 15 years TB infection in the Ukraine doubled.”

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 09:57 AM
I don't know if this has been posted today or not, but it was on bloomberg:

Looks like it's not just "conspiracy theorists" now who are saying that swine flu came from a lab. Now, it's another virologist saying it was made in a lab.

( asked for another virologist's you go.)

Scientist Repeats Swine Flu Lab-Escape Claim in Published Study

By Simeon Bennett

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Adrian Gibbs, the virologist who said in May that swine flu may have escaped from a laboratory, published his findings today, renewing discussion about the origins of the pandemic virus.

The new H1N1 strain, which was discovered in Mexico and the U.S. in April, may be the product of three strains from three continents that swapped genes in a lab or a vaccine-making plant, Gibbs, and fellow Australian scientists wrote in Virology Journal. The authors analyzed the genetic makeup of the virus and found its origin could be more simply explained by human involvement than a coincidence of nature.

Their study, published in a free, online journal reviewed by other scientists, follows debate among researchers six months ago, when Gibbs asked the World Health Organization to consider the hypothesis. After reviewing Gibbs’ initial three-page paper, WHO and other organizations concluded the pandemic strain was a naturally occurring virus and not laboratory-derived.

“It is important that the source of the new virus be found if we wish to avoid future pandemics rather than just trying to minimize the consequences after they have emerged,” Gibbs and colleagues John Armstrong and Jean Downie said in today’s eight- page study.

Gibbs and Armstrong are on the emeritus faculty at the Australian National University in Canberra and Downie is affiliated with the Centre for Infectious Diseases and Microbiology Laboratory Services at Sydney’s Westmead Hospital, according to the study.

While the exact source of the new H1N1 strain is a mystery, their research has “raised many new questions,” they said. The authors compared the genetic blueprints of flu strains stored in the free database Genbank and found the pandemic virus’s nearest ancestors circulate in pigs.

‘Simplest Explanation’

While migratory birds may have acted as conduit for their convergence, human involvement in bringing them together is “by far the simplest explanation,” Gibbs said in a telephone interview today.

Gibbs wrote or coauthored more than 250 scientific publications on viruses, mostly pertaining to the plant world, during his 39-year career at the Australian National University, according to biographical information on the university’s Web site.

“Knowing Adrian Gibbs, he will have thought through it pretty logically and come to that conclusion,” Lance Jennings, a clinical virologist with Canterbury Health Laboratories in Christchurch, New Zealand, said in a telephone interview. “It’s up to someone else to try and prove it or disprove it.”

Of course, the WHO is denying it completely. But, like the scientist said....the simplest reason is usually the best.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:06 AM
Update from Arizona.

Last Friday, our hospital received an update from the state health department about new procedures:

Any person who is in the hospital for more than 24 hours with flu-related symptoms must have lab samples sent to the State Health Department.

I don't know if the state health department will share or publish these lab results, but if I find a link, I'll attach it.


Also, with regards to the "hypothetical patient" there is disagreement as to whether or not the original diagnosis was correct....that's all I can say.

So I truly agree with others on this thread that what ever "this" is that is spreading, it could be something very, very different than H1N1.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:26 AM
reply to post by calohan

Thanks for bringing some common sense to the gloom and doom pandemic that never was just like 1976.

Some stats for people to digest by our own CDC.

2009-2010 Influenza Season Week 45 ending November 14, 2009
All data are preliminary and may change as more reports are received.

Please note that because of the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, the week 46 report will be distributed on Monday, November 30, 2009.

During week 45 (November 8-14, 2009), influenza activity decreased slightly in the U.S.

•3,106 (28.8%) specimens tested by U.S. World Health Organization (WHO) and National Respiratory and Enteric Virus Surveillance System (NREVSS) collaborating laboratories and reported to CDC/Influenza Division were positive for influenza.

•Over 99% of all subtyped influenza A viruses being reported to CDC were 2009 influenza A (H1N1) viruses.

•The proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) was above the epidemic threshold for the seventh consecutive week.

•Twenty-one influenza-associated pediatric deaths were reported. Fifteen of these deaths were associated with 2009 influenza A (H1N1) virus infection, and six were associated with an influenza A virus for which the subtype was undetermined.

•The proportion of outpatient visits for influenza-like illness (ILI) was 5.5% which is above the national baseline of 2.3%. All 10 regions reported ILI above region-specific baseline levels.

•Forty-three states reported geographically widespread influenza activity, Puerto Rico and seven states reported regional influenza activity, the District of Columbia reported local influenza activity, and Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands reported sporadic influenza activity.

So much for the killer virus that never was.

H1N1 is proving in the US to be nothing different than the seasonal flu and only propaganda is feeding the pockets of the profiteers.

By next year the seasonal flu will be an all year flu like it used to be during the 1600s and it will be called H1N1 the seasonal flu will be forgoten.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:41 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Thank you Marg. And thank you for the CDC stats.

I belive that everyone on this thread is trying to do what they think is best to shed light on an alarming situation. I have never said do or do not take the vaccination. That is a personal decision. I have never said that H1N1 doesn't exist. I have just pointed to viral forms of another disease, with their own H and N, which should be considered in a differential of flu-like illness.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:53 AM
reply to post by calohan

Exactly, for some reason I find something very interesting on some of the posting here, specially those that are pushing gloom and doom and keep telling that H1N1 is mutating into a killer virus.

I just don't see it.

The TB deaths and new cases to date for the year 2009
These counters are based on the current number of cases (and deaths) reported and the rate of increase for both. Statistics were obtained from: the CDC(states 9 million active cases) and the NIAID at the NIH(states 8 million active cases). Both state 2 million deaths. Counting begins on Jan 1, 2009.
Counting is determined by:

Number of news cases each year / days / minutes / hours / seconds = rate of new cases per second

8500000 new cases of active TB each year
(((8500000.0 / 365.0) / 24.0) / 60) / 60 = 0.27 new cases per second

2000000 deaths by TB per year
(((2000000.0 / 365.0) / 24.0) / 60) / 60 = 0.063 deaths per second

Now that is a pandemic of deadly consequences, specially becasue is fatal on HIV people.

Then look a pneumonia another pandemic of deadly consequences that makes H1N1 a walk in the park

Pneumonia kills more children than any other illness; of the approximately 10 million children aged

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:56 AM
reply to post by Kailassa

... a growing part of their business is paying people to blog and post on forums to push particular points that client wants publicised.

... and don't we just know exactly how that looks and sounds through our experience on this thread alone.

Sometimes its just so obvious its painful -- maybe they are newbies and are trying too hard. Thank goodness, though, because should they become more subtle; then readers will be more easily duped.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:01 AM
And another eye opener, before the swine flu hype the seasonal influenza was killing more people this year in January than the swine flu so far

Since January, more than 13,000 people have died of complications from seasonal flu, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's weekly report on the causes of death in the nation.

No fewer than 800 flu-related deaths were reported in any week between January 1 and April 18, the most recent week for which figures were available.

The report looks at deaths in the 122 largest cities in the United States.

Worldwide, the annual death toll from the flu is estimated to be between 250,000 and 500,000.

About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said.

"Regular influenza can be taxing," he said. "It causes their underlying disease to decompensate and then they don't have the reserves to get through it.

"While it may not be the direct cause listed on the death certificate, it certainly contributed."

One of the reasons medical experts are nervous about the swine flu outbreak is that many of the people who have died in Mexico have been young and otherwise healthy. The strains found in the United States have so far been weaker.

No wonder now the CDC wants all deaths of influenza to be tagged swine flu deaths.

Do I smell a rat?

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:07 AM
reply to post by jedi_hamster

... TB kills in a matter of weeks, not in a matter of hours like H1N1 does

And what happens when a person who has TB gets infected with H1N1 as well? Given the prevalence of TB in Ukraine, it would not be unreasonable to expect.

For patients so affected I would assume extremely high death rates. You might want to still attribute such deaths to H1N1 alone, but the reality in these circumstances is that both things working together is a far more lethal thing than either alone.

TB may not be the only co-factor affecting the death rate.

None of this is new. Why on earth would you want to crop everything out of the picture that doesn't fit with your very narrow point of view? What is your agenda?

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by wayno

The big question is with so many HIV positive people that even a common cold can be devastating, they have to deal with seasonal flu, pneumonia and now TB the one that is resistant to antibiotics has been targeting the HIV population more globally.

Having underlying health care problems due to diseases that affect the natural immunity of the body to fight viruses and bacteria is devastating no matter what.

I wonder how many people that are HIV in the US are getting hit harder by the swine flu and account for the increases of death.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:42 AM
I'm in the US here and so far i haven't gotten swine or anything related. Kinda strange, lots of others around me have been sick.

I had a small cold that lasted for about 3-4 days, that was IT. I really think people need to chillax with some of this, the media makes it so much worse then it actually is.

I mean your at ground zero and you haven't had any symptoms yourself correct?

Just my two cents. Be well.

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