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Are there really "disinfo agents" on ATS and similar sites?

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posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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I think there are certain times when ATS is infiltrated by disinfo agents.

There was a thread (by SkepticOverlord, I think) right before this last election that talked about a rash of new members who were coming from the same ISP or something - I can't remember the details. But it seemed they had a purpose in acting in concert to sway people's votes.

I don't think they're here all the time or are long term members. They join ATS when there's a reason to be here and leave when there's not.

I don't think it's arrogant to think that ATS is being "watched" at all. It would be a perfect way to have one's finger on the pulse of what's going on it the conspiracy world and a great means by which to get a message out there. "They" know the power of the Internet.




posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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Of course there are -

why would it surprise anybody that with the amount of propaganda we've been bombarded with for decades as American citizens and with fellow citizens paid by our taxes either as police or private security to disrupt and discredit Americans exercising their democratic rights to protest peacefully and disagree with our govt and their allies, that people are also acting here?

As far as I am concerned they're welcome to - it's part of the democratic process and it's a free board that whoever owns it admirably keeps as a very open forum. It's hard to see that any of the democracy here will rub off on Obama's little eavesdroppers/# stirrers/cold water pourers/troublemakers but there's not much that's democratic about the man in the first place.

I favor conspiracies on some issues, am skeptical on others. But I know that as people increasingly question Obama then he and his employees/followers/thugs will do what they can to disrupt the free flow of information and carry on the work of Bush and his cronies in eroding our rights under the Consitution.

To any Obama supporters/lackeys who are spying etc here - what really disgusts a lot of ordinary Americans like me is the sheer hide of the man in covering up his past and sealing records etc. I take exception to his manufactured history, his self serving books that contain many inaccuracies.

To compare Obama to Kennedy is ridiculous - by the time he was in the Presidency Kennedy had served in what was fundamentally a moral cause against the Nazi war machine and been in the Congress and Senate. We also know who his family really was.

I will say it here and I will say this many times to as many people as I can - those so bitterly opposed to Obama may turn off some because of their political connections but they sure have the dirt on him and the information that could potentially see him lose office. Who is this guy really? He was groomed from way back including when he was supposedly some brilliant student at Ivy League Universities.

Yet surprise, surprise - we can't read his records. This brilliance allegedly led to his being given a prime spot in a prime law firm and again we have no way of seeing just how good he supposedly was because he won't let us have access to the records. There are cries of racism from the Obama supporters but being Black has helped him evade the hard questions and scrutiny that white presidents undergo.

Throw into the mix his wife ceasing law practice because of apparently being disbarred (again missing/sealed record, censorship at work) and their association with a scandal in Chicago re corruption, word of which was circulating in the Republican/conservative minded media (and some very credible sources in that area, not scandal sheets or reflex right wing stuff) but somehow the mainstream managed not to report on during the primaries and you have all the makings of yet another corrupt, morally bankrupt snake oilsalesman for all that is bad about the power structure in this country and world.

Oh and the constant slipperiness just like a lube that's produced any time Obama is #ing us over by censoring information, refusing to give it (birth certificate)and making sure he does the same things as Bush and co did except with an emphasis on gay rights, makes many of us distrust this guy. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Obama trawlers on this board.

Enjoy the democracy of free thought because if you had your way then boards like this would not exist.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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Nobody knows everything.

To a certain degree ALL of us are dis-info agents!




posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





There was a thread (by SkepticOverlord, I think) right before this last election that talked about a rash of new members who were coming from the same ISP or something - I can't remember the details. But it seemed they had a purpose in acting in concert to sway people's votes.

BH, you're right . I remember it also. Those people were political disinformation agents. In the 1960's, we called them "dirty tricks" agents. The first one I remember was Nixon's Donald Segretti. Dirty tricks go back to at least the American Revolution, where Hamilton used dirty tricks against Jefferson to undermine him and his efforts.
Again, it is up to the reader here to use logic, independent research, and good old common sense to determine when something seems like a dirty trick. I suspect many of the "conspiracy" theories are nothing more than dirty tricks started by someone or some group to divert attention away from what is really happening. I know that is not a very popular remark to make on a conspiracy site, but I call it as I see it. Do conspiracies exist? Absolutely, but the really successful ones aren't viewed as conspiracies- they are accepted as "History".



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Considering the huge quantity of ads for "Join the CIA" that we've been seeing lately it would make sense. The government has unlimited money and wants to spend more to destroy the economy so hires a lot of people to do weird things and spy on us. We know they record our telephone conversations and internet communications but they need a lot of people to decipher all that in order to categorize who gets red blue or yellow dots on their mailboxes., or was it white. I got so upset when I found a white spot of paint on the gutter in front of my mailbox that I removed it, I had to chip most of it off. But the census person calculated my gps just a few days later. I threw out my Obama shirts and a copy of his book, I would have kept it if I had known it was written by Ayers, but I threw them into a goodwill type pickup drive and the guy came back a few hours later to ask me questions. He said he was looking for someone else but I knew someone had sent him to find out who were the Obama-haters. You think I am paranoid and this is silly, but they plan to get rid of a lot of people. You don't have to be dangerous to them, just disagree with them to be on their list. Wait and see



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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There are no disinfo agents on ATS please carry on discussing conspiracy theories.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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If you say no there are not disinfo agents you are in fact a disinfo agent.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 


There is no logic in your post. A person can say there are no disinfo agents here and be totally against the people utilizing disinfo agents.

I've studied communities and community behavior for a long time (did it inside and outside of college), and if there are disinfo agents here, and I said if, it wouldn't be the pop in pop out posters. It would be people you actually never thought of, people who have actually been here for awhile, earned the trust of the site, etc. These are the people who have the most persuasion, and again, if there are disinfo agents, you look at the top of the food chain and work your way down, because that's how it works. Yeah ATS got hit with a number of hits from RNC and DNC, but how do we know those people were told, "Go to ATS and disrupt it"?



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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Why wouldn't there be dis-info agents on the net? Those in power have been using such tactics in order to control the flow of information in all areas of media for decades... long before the net was even invented. So why is it so hard to imagine they are paying a bunch of goons to do the same thing on the the internet? Which is just the newest media, but also the greatest arena of information and knowledge.
In fact I feel it is very naive for one to believe that they aren't involved in such campaigns.

Im not sure if ATS is directly targeted but I sure as hell know social networking sites like digg, facebook, and myspace definitely are.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


The statement I made makes complete sense and is a hell of a lot deeper tha people probably take it. If there are disinfo agents on ATS (and there are) they would try to say that there aren't any. How many posts have you or other people read where there was an account created a day after a major post, revealing very telling information, and the guy talks about how he is literally an expert on the subject, tries in vain to debunk the info, and never posts ever again. Tell me that that is not a disinfo agent.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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I haven't been here long enough to spot specific users (maybe even me I am new) but I do know that there are dis info agents on the net. Most of the ones I've disagreed with here have been passionate, but I see them as simply having another world view. That said, this is the classic example of a website where the dis info agent would be effective.

In my short time I have seen threads derailed quickly, and even disappeared from the board entirely. I have suspected political motives for these actions. The quickest way to accomplish this seems to be spouting off topic and hate speech. Is this a conspiracy, or just a simple act of a desperate worldview that cannot grip an opposing viewpoint?

As for whether they watch this site? I believe they would. Not to see what we have figured out or what we know specifically, because I believe getting to the ultimate truth would be so slim, that they may watch simply to see what kernels do get through. The little pieces of truth that fall through the cracks of the propaganda machine. I do believe there is a propaganda machine, and I believe observing a site such as this would be the perfect way to fine-tune it's workings. When you watch an msm show quote from conspiracy sites as a way to heckle the freethinkers, even the more anti government ones, you realize that they do watch sites like this.

Either that or I am completely insane, paranoid, and quite harmless.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 


Exactly so......and anyone that is familiar with syntax and NLP can spot a disinfo guy a mile away.



[edit on 28-10-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


There may be. Mostly though I think its just being said by hotheads who want to force their views down others throats, who label people that don't agree with them, to get even with them when they won't parrot their own opinions.

We do seem to have lots of Partisans who walk in lock step with their respective political Parties. We do have people who resort to name calling because they are not emotionally mature enough to debate and discuss issues. They are here not to learn and debate but instead to attempt to force their views upon us.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 



The statement I made makes complete sense and is a hell of a lot deeper tha people probably take it.


No it doesn't make complete sense. As I've shown, a person can say there are no disinfo agents here and be completely against those who employ disinfo agents. Simply saying, "No there are no disinfo agents here" does not make one a disinfo agent and assuming it does is irrational.


If there are disinfo agents on ATS (and there are) they would try to say that there aren't any.


So? Does that mean everyone who says there aren't disinfo agents is a disinfo agent? How can you prove such a claim?


How many posts have you or other people read where there was an account created a day after a major post, revealing very telling information, and the guy talks about how he is literally an expert on the subject, tries in vain to debunk the info, and never posts ever again. Tell me that that is not a disinfo agent.


No, that may be a guy with an axe to grind or a guy who wants to come off as intelligent. Could be a troll, but I'm not going to shout, "Look ma disinfo agent" just because that happens.

Nothing you typed reeks of disinformation or conspiracy. Again, as I've already stated, if there are disinfo agents here, they are people who have already taken root, people who already have a following or are respected amongst their peers. You're thinking of some Johnny Come Lately fly by by night type of poster, and these people do not have enough pull in a community, which this site is, to persuade the type of people who are here. However, what about people who've been here? People who post regularly, have a following, etc?



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


Wouldn't someone with an axe to grind qualify as a disinfo agent? Saying things just to get someone upset or to concede to their point of view regardless of the truth in what he said.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Enigma Publius
 


I also remember something similar several years ago, maybe 2003 or 2004 regarding a member being banned. If I remember correctly a particular member was regularly posting lengthy, detailed, and apparently well annotated replies to various threads which contradicted and ridiculed the topic. According to my recollection the replies seemed carefully crafted to discourage the threads and disrupt further meaningful exchange. There also appeared to be a disruptive pattern to the posts.

Not that the above warranted banning by itself, I also recall something being said about the members IP address and that the number of detailed replies posted in a given time period and the amount of effort required to post said replies within the time frame indicated more than one person was involved.

I did a quick search and could not find anything in the archives which was relevant. Perhaps someone else may remember. Of course, it is possible that my memory is incorrect. Maybe one of the moderators could help.

I have been a member of this site for many years, and a regular visitor for many more, and I commend both the owners and members for their valuable and necessary contribution to the knowledge available on the internet.
I also believe in the freedom of speech and the necessity of publishing opposing viewpoints. A spirited debate of important issues will always involve facts and opinions presented and advocated forcefully, sometimes even fervently and with emotion. A sprinkling of humor and sarcasm is also useful to provide perspective. What must be guarded against are comments which ridicule and discourage further discussion of ideas or deflect from the issue at hand.
The T&C of ATS are necessary and well crafted and serve to promote civility and intellectual discussion. One who chooses to ignore them will possibly find welcome somewhere else.

Over the years, I have observed instances where it appeared that a meritorious thread was being “derailed” by posted replies which did not add to the issue, but seemed to discredit the ideas and discourage further discussion in an almost systematic manner. It could be individual differences of opinion or it could be a concerted effort. Not that evidence of a concerted effort would warrant action, but, it might warrant disclosure.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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I'm a disinfo agent!

I admit it.


Nah..

Actually I'm a bot.

Now, where did I put my my tin foil hat? Oh yeah - its in my underground bunker.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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You can get paid for posting on forums. Your posts have to be approved by a particular sponsor, I believe. Do a Web search on "pay per post" - sounds very much like that sort of thing.

I frequent a forum about Peak Oil. One very regular contributor makes several long posts per day that argue the toss with pretty much everyone else on the forum. His replies are detailed and sometimes quite clever, but - as someone else here put it - the poster seems cleverer than his opinions. I can imagine that someone in the oil industry has a small budget that they're using to pay posters to spread disinformation in this way. Newcomers to the Peak Oil site might see this character's arguments and take them seriously. The thing about him is that he doesn't seem particularly impassioned, he just seems to regard it as a game of wits. And why would he spend so much time on a forum where it's quite clear he's not going to convince anyone?

I would guess that similar people are being employed to pooh-pooh, say, swine flu and 9/11 conspiracy theories. Many people who might be casually interested in these things are likely to seek out forums about them, see the disinformation "counterarguments" - which may well be what they want to hear - and go away, reassured that it's all nonsense.



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