Israel rules out questioning troops about Gaza offensive

Israel rules out questioning troops about Gaza offensive

www.edition.cnn.com

Jerusalem (CNN) -- The Israeli government has ruled out setting up an independent investigative body that would interview Israeli military personnel about allegations that the military committed war crimes during its offensive against Hamas earlier this year.

According to an Israeli government official, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday met with representatives from the Defense, Justice and Foreign ministries to discuss the 575-page report -- approved by the U.N. Council for Human R

(visit the link for the full news article)

Well this is a suprise isn't it?

You'd think that Israel would want to make sure they were following the law during their little hunting trip last year.

Apparently not.

"We sent the soldiers on the mission and they deserve our complete backup," said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak in a statement Sunday night.

I would like to ask what exactly was the mission? If war crimes are something they were intent on doing, this would certainly point to that.

Any thoughts ATS?

~Keeper

www.edition.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

"approved by the UN". well thats nothing new, the UN approves everything Israel does no matter how illegal.

reply to post by RoyalCanadian


Yup, it seems that they really had a dog and pony show for this whole war crimes thing, and now it's gonna get put under the rug again.

Ohh well, another day in Israeli politics.

~Keeper

reply to post by RoyalCanadian


no the UN report condemned both sides -israel say its a travesty and refused to take part in the report - even though it was written by a jew.

reply to post by Harlequin


I found that a little funny when the report came out as well. To think that they would bash the work of one of their own.

It was a fair report and Israel should at least be willing to look into it.

~Keeper

I don't blame the Israeli's.

You don't **** on your soldiers. Not if you want to be able to rely on them.

After weeks of warning the Gazans to stop the rocket fire across the border, had the Gazans stopped the rocket fire, none of this would have occurred.

Don't start anything you can't finish.

That's the lesson of the day.

Should be every day.

Originally posted by dooper
I don't blame the Israeli's.

You don't **** on your soldiers. Not if you want to be able to rely on them.

After weeks of warning the Gazans to stop the rocket fire across the border, had the Gazans stopped the rocket fire, none of this would have occurred.

Don't start anything you can't finish.

That's the lesson of the day.

Should be every day.

That's not a good reason my friend.

"They Started It" should not be an excuse for Israel to commit war crimes and use Phosphorous shells on the Palestinians. I understand where your coming from, but everybody in this conflict has blood on their hands, it's only fair that both sides re-evaluate their behaviour and accept responsibility.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower

This has been covered over and over and over again, but the same damned lie keeps popping up.

The use of White Phosphorous is not in violation of international law. We have lots of it in our arsenal.

Period.

I've used it and loved how well I could clear bunkers with it. Marking rounds, register rounds, and misdirection rounds of WP certainly aren't in violation of international law.

Those who weren't cooked, were asphyxiated, and it burned up all the oxygen. Stand on top and pop whatever runs out. Quite effective against reinforced bunkers.

You'll not find there were even any ground bursts of WP.

You may not like WP, but that doesn't make it illegal.

Firing rockets across a border is a violation of international law though.

If you want to get really technical, the Gazan fighters are supposed to be in a recognizable uniform, complete with rank to denote commanders.

Since the Gazans/Hamas didn't wear recognizable uniforms, complete with rank, - then anyone armed was fair game, and they had zero protections under international law.

So just keep firing rockets, acting like dumbasses, and you'll get the attention you so badly seem to want.



[edit on 30-10-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by dooper
You'll not find there were even any ground bursts of WP.

WP aerial burst rounds designed as flares were used to clear streets. I even saw pictures of a burst right in the middle of a busy street right here on ATS, aside from watching these attacks all the time on CNN during the live war. On top of that, WP was used on that red cross hospital.

Firing rockets across a border is a violation of international law though.

What border did this rockets come from? Israel refuses to recognize Palestinian autonomy which Israel believes gives them the right to rampage through Gaza whenever they want without consequence. If Gaza was an independent country, it would form alliances which could help it from Israeli aggression.

Since the Gazans/Hamas didn't wear recognizable uniforms, complete with rank, - then anyone armed was fair game, and they had zero protections under international law.

So just keep firing rockets, acting like dumbasses, and you'll get the attention you so badly seem to want.

This is a myth. HAMAS have uniforms and they do wear them, try looking at pictures. Just because they are from the middle east doesn't mean they are terrorist splinter groups, HAMAS is a legit government organization with a military wing. Regardless of this however, Israel soldiers still manage to shoot unarmed civilians including children.

And for every action there is a counter reaction. You think HAMAS did this to show off? They won a democratic election but Israel wouldn't accept it and so Gaza's lifelines were cut off. Gaza was nothing more than the world's largest ghetto and HAMAS was furfilling its duty to protect its people by rebelling against the aggressor in their only capacity (which happened to be WWII-era rockets).

But look at what came out of it. Gaza was invaded, thousands of casualties, and more lifelines were cut off. There is a reason why the West Bank doesn't get invaded, its because their administration bow down to Israel like cowards, afraid to fight for their freedom. It's HAMAS who has the balls to do something.

www.geenstijl.nl...


^^Israel breaking international law by using WP against a hospital.


but then again `some` people deem hospitals as legitimate targets. Especially the war criminals post on here as well

[edit on 31/10/09 by Harlequin]

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

If Israel wanted to maximize the effect of WP in an urban setting, they would go with impact fusing. Not airbursts 500 feet above, when the bulk of the WP has burned out before it ever reaches the ground.

WP only burns for seconds, so if you want it effective, you get it on target. Not way above target.

And that Red Cross hospitial? If Israel really wanted to inflict casualties, they would have used HE, not WP. OOORRR, they would have used impact fusing on the WP.

If you don't have any idea of the origin of the rockets that were fired into Israel, then maybe this thread is over your head.

Don't act dumb. We all know that for weeks, Hamas launched rockets across the border, and for weeks, Israel demanded that they stop.

They didn't.

Hamas, by firing rockets at random, targeted Israeli civilians, so why should Israel be held to a different standard?

About that Hamas election. Egypt cut off Gaza as well. They don't like these Gazan folks since they're nothing but trouble makers, and so it's not like Israel is the only neighbor that detest them.

By the way. Break out a map. Your statement that Israel sealed off Gaza is wrong. Gaza also shares a border with Egypt. Since Israel was the one attacked, if you have a burr up your butt over the borders - take it up with Egypt.

You tout Hamas as the only ones with balls to do something? Yeah. They did something. They started a fight, and when they had an opportunity to fight - they ran and hid behind women and children.

They launched their rockets from NEAR hospitals, apartments, UN stations, and even sent kids out to launch rockets that they were too chikenschitt to do themselves.

Some balls.

Some warriors.

reply to post by dooper


Well I understand all the points you have listed Dooper and I agree.


What I don't agree with is Israel not taking responsibility for it's actions. Whether it was intentional or not, a respectable and responsible government would take action and actually go through with any investigations or data which lead them to believe that injustice occured during the fighting.

Don't you think it makes sense? You didn't see Hamas state that the report was bogus did you? Not that they will do anything about that either, but what can you expect when you live a ghetto.

In any case as I said, both sides have ALOT of blood on their hands and Israel seems to be the only one attempting to prove that it doesn't. And they aren't doing a good job about it.

I simply want to see some responsibility. Is that too much to ask of a nation who should know ALL about responsibility. Out of all the countries in the world I would think that Israel would be one to know the value of a human life.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Taking responsibility?

After an extended period of time being a target, you just start to grow a bit numb as to the actions.

You get to where everything goes on autopilot, and you just don't give a damn.

Even when Israel has been right, the bulk of the world condemns them anyway.

After a while, especially decades, you just get to the point that you don't give a **** as to the opinions of others.

Because nothing you do or say will matter. You're still going to receive the ****ty end of the stick.

reply to post by dooper
Explanation: 1stly RE: "Taking responsibility?

After an extended period of time being a target, you just start to grow a bit numb as to the actions."...

Are you really expecting anyone to validate that as a resonable excuse for Israel, its enemies or the world at large to be immune from accurate assessment according to an INDEPENDANT standard!

2ndly The "oh I'm wounded ,tired and hungry and I want to go home! So I'll just ignore these pesky rules that are hindering me!" attitude...which you so neatly put as RE: "You get to where everything goes on autopilot, and you just don't give a damn.", makes it quite obvious to everybody that all sides in this conflict have blood, in the form of as yet unprosecuted and unpunished warcrimes, upon their reputations due to this EPIC ATTITUDE FAIL! Sure war is an extremely hard and fast full contact ballgame! This is no way makes cheating in it excusable regardless of the state of endurance or morale of either teams or individual players!

Personal Disclosure: IMO anyone recieving a red card needs to get of the playing field or be removed quickly by overwhelming force!
All sides should play by the moral rules of war 1st, before employing might is right! [which of course is inherently morally WRONG!]

P.S. Maybe the middle east issue needs a streaker to break the flow of play and give everyone a laugh!

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Not a surprise at all, no one can do anything about it, America has their backs. Obama came and make the Muslim world feel a little better with all his beautifully composed speeches, then just like any US puppet continued with the same old policies. I haven't seen anything change in regards to the American foreign policy.

If Israel wanted to maximize the effect of WP in an urban setting, they would go with impact fusing. Not airbursts 500 feet above

That's weird, I saw canisters of WP bouncing off the ground among civillians in a few photos. Their trails showed they had been fired close to the ground also, as the trails were clearly seen to arc instead of coming down vertically.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

In the first place, this was far, FAR from an independent assessment. The UN is one useless, biased bunch of pretenders, and their "independent" assessments are as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

Maybe you should review some of the history of the UN. I recall on a couple of occasions where the UN removed their troops to enable attacks on Israel. Some unbiased outfit - huh?

And yes, it's fine to ignore the rules - once the opposing side breaks the rules. So, according to many here, Israel's enemies can do what they damn well please, but Israel is to be restricted in their response?

That's not exactly according to Hoyle, now is it? The truth is, Hamas long ago abandoned any semblance of internationally approve, or lawful behavior. Suicide bombings are fine? Kidnapping and murders are fine? Rocket attacks on Israel civilians are fine?

But it's not OK for Israel to respond? Now just how in hell does that work?

You are suggesting there are Moral rules of war?

Are you just being a smartass in your response, or delusional? you are certainly not saying there are moral rules of war, now are you?

Here's the way it actually works. Not in your mind, but for real. You shoot at another, and he is not compelled to shoot back in kind, either in number of rounds or caliber of rounds. Once you open the party, everyone can dance with what they have.

You start a fight, don't cry when those you shot at break out the big stuff.

Might in fact makes right - IF done in response to an attack. We in the US were attacked by Japan, and I guarantee you, we did not respond in kind.

We ****ed them some kind of UP.

If someone doesn't want Israel to counterattack - it's a real hard concept here - then don't attack Israel.

Get it?

reply to post by Lazyninja

Show those canisters you're talking about.

I'm betting you saw the last vestiges of the tendrils of WP that had a high air burst. Those mostly burned out tendrils will bounce around the ground a bit, and everyone will run like hell, but I'm dying to see these groundbursts which will have a radius of 50-100 meters, frying everything within that radius.

Show us.

reply to post by dooper


I don't have to show you anything. And I'm not interested in proving anything to you or anyone else. Everyone who has seen the pictures knows what I am talking about. Those who defend Israel will find excuses for those pictures. There is no point.

Also the "tendrils" hypothesis doesn't explain civillians with their faces burned off. Limbs which have literally been eaten through and fallen off. Guts hanging out, literally.

I saw a south park episode once, where hunting was outlawed. And so hunters were only allowed to fire on deer in cases of self defence. So the hunters would just shout "they're comin' right for us!" and blow the deer to hell. The army has the same attitude about WP. They use the stuff to mask choppers from RPG fire. But they use it carelessly, and if civillians die, well they just shrug "collateral damage"


[edit on 31-10-2009 by Lazyninja]