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The Clone Conspiracy: Royal and Presidential Clones

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posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 10:41 AM

Fellow ATSers,

This subject is at last ready for full-fledged status as a Conspiracy Theory.

This is why this thread is posted in the "General Conspiracy Discussion" section of ATS, where it rightfully belongs.

As an introductory preamble to the subject, I shall resume the following:

- There has been a great deal of Science Fiction literature and filmography about Clones, their underlying technology, their purpose and their utilization.

- Today's mainstream scientific technology has established that cloning is well within our technical abilities.

- There is good reason to assume that the ruling Elites and their Intelligence Agencies, Military Black Operations Programs and Secret Societies have access to knowledge which is kept from public view. This is the reason this website exists: some things are Above Top Secret.

- There have been quite a few threads here and on other message boards about political figures including presidents having been replaced by doubles, clones or synthetic robotoids.

- Royal families have been historically obsessed with genetics, their own bloodlines being the seat of their power and the focus of their legitimacy as rulers.

- There is ample photographic evidence of doubles, either exact duplicates or extremely similar individuals to provoke a suspicion of some sort of genetic replication, either natural and spontaneous or artificial and engineered.

Now that these issues have been outlined, here is the CLONE Conspiracy:

State Leaders have been, at least for some, CLONED.

Clones may be replacements of genuine human born Presidents or Monarchy rulers, unless such rulers are genetically engineered from "birth".

Cloning of human leaders is done by unknown parties, yet to be identified entities, who have Conspired to impose Mind Controlled Clones as our earthly rulers.

To discuss this Conspiracy Theory, please start by examining the following links and researching the subject to substantiate your ideas or claims:


Secret History: Cloning the Romanov Tsars

Zbigniew Brzeziński's Clones: President Jimmy Carter

Zbigniew Brzeziński's Clones: President Barack Obama


Please, no hooting, yelling, insulting disrespect of other posters in this thread. Only civilized and courteous behavior is becoming of our friendly ATS community. Nobody is being asked to believe outrageous allegations or to consider this thread makes any declarations of concrete facts.

Like any Conspiracy Theory, this is "Just a theory" and does not need to be supported with hard evidence. The absence of evidence does not make it any less of a theory, it only makes it harder to believe. Some truths are not supported by objective evidence until decades later. Some lies are supported by evidence which is later rejected. Evidence is a useful tool to determine truth, but in itself it is not truth.

Please contribute with rational arguments, logical deductions, hypothetical analysis, convergence of observations, associative connections, creative thinking. Stubborn demands to produce evidence will not be entertained as they serve no other purpose than to reject theories which are not those of The Establishment.

Thanks for your fun, constructive, speculative, controversial, imaginative ideas to enrich the Conspiracy Theory Discussion of Royal and Presidential Clones .

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26 Oct 09 by Gools]

posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 11:24 AM
Those pics of the Royal Clones are outrageous.

Clones? Why not.

Ok, I came back to edit my post.

I agree with you. I do think the *rich and famous* have clones, but, maybe not necessarily as it's presented here.

But what do I know?

S&F anyway! Good luck on your thread!


[edit on 26-10-2009 by silo13]

posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 12:10 PM

Originally posted by silo13
Those pics of the Royal Clones are outrageous.

S&F anyway! Good luck on your thread!


[edit on 26-10-2009 by silo13]

Hi Silo,

Thanks for your support.

I hope that this thread can remain here in General Conspiracy Discussion.

Usually my threads are too controversial and get "downgraded" to the Skunk Works section (my latest thread even got downgraded from the Skunk Works). But dont' blame the Mods, this is one tough place to police.

posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 12:59 PM
Star and Flag for starting this thread, I think it's time we discussed this. The idea of human cloning has been around for some time now. I think it was the Raelians who brought cloning into popular culture...
Raelian History and Links
Clone Rights United Front
Cloning...Politcs and Ethics

Knowing this, and knowing how at least some of the Rich Elite Families operate, it just stands to intelligent reason and logic that the Elite have used their money to fund a cloning project. That is not even counting whether or not they had extraterrestrial help, it has been said many time that the small Greys had lost, or had never had, a reproductive process, and were trying to perfects one by using human subjects.

There is also the Anunnaki to consider. Sumerian Information of the Annunaki -- compared to the Anakim

It has been said that the Annunnaki left some of theirs behind when they last were here, called the "Iggi," in the Sumerian tongue, which means, "only son." 600 were said to be left, and they were driven underground and forced to live there.
These ETs have been connected with Reptilians.
Alien Nation..Clones in the White Wouse?
All About Reptilians

I will be interested in the way this thread goes......

posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 03:18 PM

Originally posted by autowrench
Star and Flag for starting this thread, I think it's time we discussed this. The idea of human cloning has been around for some time now. I think it was the Raelians who brought cloning into popular culture...

Knowing this, and knowing how at least some of the Rich Elite Families operate, it just stands to intelligent reason and logic that the Elite have used their money to fund a cloning project. That is not even counting whether or not they had extraterrestrial help, it has been said many time that the small Greys had lost, or had never had, a reproductive process, and were trying to perfects one by using human subjects...

Hi Autowrench,

Thanks for your contributions to this thread. Those are some useful links as background information for those joining us. Regarding the issue of cloned Presidents and Royals, cloned from earlier Royals, here is an interesting tidbit.

We've seen that one or more United States Presidents have been placed in the White House by the Illuminati power broker Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński.

Why would so insignificant a Polish immigrant become the "maker of Presidents"? It is claimed that he was born in Warsaw the 28th of March 1928 which would make him 91 years old today. However, he may not be whom or what he appears.

Other than looking like he is a freakish subject of demonic possession, with wild eyes and a contorted face adding their zest to his sinister mentality, we can note that he may himself have been cloned from... none other than a Polish ruler, the last Polish King Stanislaw Augustus Poniatowski. Here we can see them together, with something of a resemblance if you can forget the King's wig and than the inimitable squint of his modern day duplicate.

This adds a troublesome dimension to our analysis. We could better understand that a naturally born human being seeking power would place into public office or in positions of high responsibility genetically engineered clones under their complete control.

That the one placing them is himself a clone makes one wonder if this is entirely an operation where humans are using clones?

Could it be that there is a colony of clones in high positions who are perpetuating there control over us by replicating and consolidating their power?

If so, are they autonomous, or do they in turn answer to " OTHERS " ?

Who are these Others we may ask? If they have been present throughout history, as demons, aliens or other non humans intervening in human affairs, then we must consider their agenda.

Let us ponder, in this knowledge, the words of President Woodrow Wilson who never forgave himself for surrendering the United States of America to the Federal Reserve Bank slavery and control system. Here is a quote from his book The New Freedom:

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

The most powerful men on Earth are afraid of something so watchful that it could be compared to the Illuminati All Seeing Eye.

This thread is henceforth dedicated not to arguing whether there are clones in positions of authority, supreme power or ruling supremacy, but to determining WHO is behind this All Seeing Eye of the Illuminati.

Although this is not in any way a certain method to determine the origins or motives of an individual, we may however possibly learn something from visual clues left behind by those "in the know". One such instance is in the very painting of the portrait of the last King of Poland by Marcello Bacciarelli in 1793 which illustrates an event in the background. It is what is called in artists' circles "the painting within the painting".

What did not immediately strike the eye in this portrait, especially in the days in which it was painted, was the scene in the background to the right side. It dates back to the era of the French Revolution before Napoleon had made his appearance on the international scene. Dating back so far in the past, this image is now more revealing to the general public than it has ever been.

Follow the King's eyes, until you reach what he is looking at, what preoccupies him in this revealing portrait of his intimate truth. He is not in state attire, this is not the King but Stanislaw in his dressing coat. He is protecting his crown with his arms from some outside danger, with time ticking away. This is maybe why he was the Last King of Poland, It is a personal testimonial of a message he could not transmit otherwise, and thanks to his ingenuity it has reached us over two centuries later.

There are no doubt those who will say this is a representation of the sun shining upon the land of Poland. Others will say it symbolizes divine ordination of the King's power. What was King Stanislaw trying to tell us? We must each draw our own conclusions about what appears very much like our modern interpretation of an encounter of the 3rd kind. In the ATS forum, this is one place where such an illustration can be readily recognized.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Getsmart]

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 01:43 AM
The Illuminati/TPTB have been using doubles (lookalikes, clones, synthetics, organic robotoids) to further their NWO agenda. Abner Whatley once said, “The Illuminati replaces people with doubles. For many years, they recruited lookalikes who would serve their ends. Now they are perfecting cloning technology that will let them replace anybody.” An Illuminati Grand Master once told Cisco Wheeler, while touring a cloning facility, "never, never think you are seeing who you think you are seeing."

Some of the purposes of a double are to take over [for ex, in case of death] so that a person’s powerful influence won’t be interrupted or end. It is also possible to exploit the original person’s popularity, influence, &/or credibility to promote some policy, or just as a way to infiltrate a government or other organization. The films "Dave" & "The Man in the Iron Mask" offer insight into this. Politicians & celebrities are both targets. It's obvious w/ politicians b/c of their position to get legislation passed, etc. Celebrities have an ability to lead the public in a particular direction (trend-setters). If one doesn't want to play ball, then a double can be found (or made) who will.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 06:11 AM

Thanks for sharing your observations about the prevalent manipulation of the identities of those in positions of power to either directly decide or indirectly influence our destiny. This widens the Clone Conspiracy Discussion to the additional field of cultural and spiritual leaders whom many consider as so many "Stars" in the firmament of celebrated and admired personalities who become our role models. Those who define our aesthetic tastes through fashion, our artistic strivings through the arts, our gurus who lead us on mystical quests, these are but some of the actors who engineer humanity.

Genetic engineering is nothing but an extension of the tremendous social engineering which has taken place on Earth since times immemorial. We find it normal, even natural to have a government decide for us much of everything in life. In the past they even decided whom we could marry, so we have made a tiny amount of progress towards an illusion of freedom. We find it normal to abandon our vocations because "there are no jobs doing what we'd like". Those ruling society have in fact left no place in the social order or the economic mechanisms for us to undertake what we strive to do, to be, to become.

When we research and discuss the Clone Conspiracy we would do well to remember how even Royal and Presidential Clones fit into this greater mechanism to "TerraForm humanity" into a more habitable society for Alien occupation enabling an easier possession of our souls. For this they create a social order which reduces much of the humanity in the human experience. A fascist totalitarian rule which prevents the exercise of our own judgement, the development of our own values, the emergence of our own soul.

What the Illuminati call cattle are indeed crops of physical vessels meant to be emptied of their content (you soul) to then be occupied by Alien entities, which have been called throughout history demons. We now prefer to use the more neutral term "dimensional beings" referring to life forms inhabiting other dimensions which our eyes and ears cannot detect, and who are today invading our own physical dimension right here on Earth.

What is officially considered to be the best blood, the blood of rulers and leaders, is therefore in fact the worst blood. Such blood or genetic makeup seems to offer increased compatibility for the ghastly invading Alien entities which take possession of a person.

We can deduce from this, and from the fact that these genetically weak possessed leaders are in a position of power to conduct secret research into genetic engineering, that they are behind the cloning of former Royals, seeking to further exploit their genetic predisposition to providing ideal hosts for the Alien beings who are secretly colonizing our planet.

We can further deduce that much of the Illuminati plan for culling human populations are not for the pretext of Earth Greening ecological equilibrium or to reach a perfect number of inhabitants compatible with our natural environment. The extermination of a large proportion of humanity will most likely be genetically targeted against those who present the opposite characteristics of our Cloned Rulers. If you have a soul, your own ideas, your own convictions, you are the enemy, not of a system but of those who use this system to Invade Earth.

So remember why you are being monitored by their subservient Intelligence Agencies. Don't forget why they have built so many FEMA camps. Consider why they are promoting poisonous Swine Flu vaccines. Imagine why they seek to provoke WWIII.

To leave behind only the best genetically "superior" (for their purposes) perfect people to serve as empty vessels for possession until the day they are all alone, in full Alien Possession of the Earth.

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 06:23 AM
Getting back to the specifics regarding Presidential Clones, here is a rundown of a discussion on this topic at the following link:

Barack Obama's Family Tree

It is interesting to notice that there is an extremely strong correlation between genetic makeup and positions of power. Does this mean that those in power believe there is such as thing as dominant genes?

Are there certain genetic combinations which better (read "worse") predispose a person to being demon possessed? The classic observation by onlookers is that they used to be nice people, but as soon as they gained power they went bonkers. Is it power that went to their head, or was it someone or something else that went INTO their head?

A scientific method would be to analyse the DNA of each of these individuals and see which genes they have in common, this might enable us to identify and isolate the "Possession Gene". Furthermore, it there was one place we would need to use gene therapy, it is here. If we were able to exorcise our world leaders it would save countless lives and prevent incalculable misery. Because a demon in power lusts for war, unleashes death and destruction, thrives on tormenting misery stricken souls.

What is interesting is that the Royals have worked extremely hard and without rest for generations to "perfect" the genes of their offspring in order to qualify them as rulers. Could the dark powers who work in the wings of palaces and parliaments deem this a mandatory requirement? How is it requested and justified in a Republic? And why would they prefer using a cloned version of a leader, with the exact same required genes, to replacing that leader with another person?

The American Republic of the United States was offered a choice between two cousins, John Kerry and George W. Bush for President. We can presume that it didn't matter to those behind the scenes which one came forth, they both had a similar genetic makeup making them adequate vessels for occupation and control. Who runs these life sized Voodoo Dolls we call Kings, Queens, Presidents or Premiers?

These leaders are genetically engineered, either the old fashioned way using selective breeding after genealogical analysis, or the modern way by replicating the hard work done by earlier generations when they fabricated their Royals by inbreeding.

We can also assume that Barack Obama may have been engineered the modern way, given that he has no verifiable birth or family history, but was implanted into a family whose genetic heritage was connected to the correct genes, so that to the old-fashioned guard he would appear to be of the proper gene pool without the need to publicize his genetically engineered conception as a Clone.

It is therefore safe to say that our Royals and Presidents are Clones. Either they have cloned themselves through inbreeding or they have resorted to genetic engineering technology to assist them in the process.

We are ruled by Clones.

These clones appear to be possessed by demonic spirits who tend to harm common people by reducing them to slavery or thinly disguised tax and interest slavery, totalitarian dominance of a bureaucratic police state, mind control from early education up to brainwashed corporate mentalities or hypnotic satanic messages in music and art.

The Clones are ruled by demons.

What remains to be understood is who rules the demons (dimensional alien entities) or tolerates that they occupy such a position organizing human society into an Evil empire consolidated into a New World Order. If there is a God with an All Seeing Eye, maybe this eye is being tricked by skilled Magicians playing the center stage of our human circus ? It is for us to bring our own eyes to gaze upon their sleight of hand, the magic tricks which also fool the populations of the Earth. Reveal them as the false prophets, masters of deceit, treacherous serpents and inveterate liars which they are. Reject their authority and denounce their illegitimacy. For they are not even human.

Demon possessed Clones are unfit to rule.

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 07:34 AM
Bravo friend! I cannot express in words how refreshing this thread is for me. I have had very similar ideas and theories myself for years about this exact subject. I tend to lean toward it being more of a reality than a theory however.. not only because of the information and discussion brought forth, but also because of what I hear/feel in a higher state of conciousness regarding greater reality and illusionary nature of this mandated reality that is seemingly forced into us, literally.

Also, and this is something I have personally noted and wondered about for a year or so now: Obama to me feels/resembles a pharoah in some subtle way. This is theory, one which I do not yet fully understand or claim as being true in any way, but I see it when I look at him. There is something about him to me. In my eyes (all 3 of them) he has never looked even remotely the african american man he has been made out to be to me. Many do not and maybe will not ever share such perspective but it is ok that it may just be mine and mine alone. No qualms about that here, just wanted to add something I have wondered myself.

Looking at many of these people even from a non clones perspective (though I do believe many are)... Many of them do not look right. There is something "off" about many of our leaders.. look into their eyes, feel their eyes. You know if I could tell you specificaly what it is perhaps I would, but there is something simply that does not sit well there. Sometimes I ponder if holding a malevolant force withn them for extended periods of time would physicaly contort, manipulate, and alter them... reflecting on the outside what is contained on the inside. Perhaps then new hosts or "clones" are required to extend the parlor tricks. Again, more theorizing on my part.

Again, wonderful thread and bless you for bringing this up and with such clarity and confidence. I sensed that immediately in your initial post and was drawn here with great interest and attention. That doesn't happen to me here much anymore. Thank you.. S+F is in order

Be In Peace.

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 09:40 AM
Hi Asmus,

Thanks for your words of encouragement. We are at an interesting time where the endgame of those seeking to bring a New World Order unfolds and becomes so apparent that it can no longer hide their intention of bringing forth Hell on Earth. Why? Because that lower dimension we call Hell is where they are from. And they visibly want to feel at home while invading our physical dimension by making this place seem more like home.

Originally posted by Asmus
...I tend to lean toward it being more of a reality than a theory however.. not only because of the information and discussion brought forth, but also because of what I hear/feel in a higher state of consciousness regarding greater reality and illusionary nature of this mandated reality that is seemingly forced into us, literally...

What we have become accustomed to calling reality is what we were taught by the news, television, bestseller books, edutainment, neurone numbing education, brain draining work methods, soul emptying social interactions and spiritually empty communication by chat or texting. It is not our reality, it is their reality they are forcing down our throats. Anything which isn't mainstream or establishment controlled can only be less processed and pasteurized into lifeless immobility.

Originally posted by Asmus
Also, and this is something I have personally noted and wondered about for a year or so now: Obama to me feels/resembles a pharoah in some subtle way [...] he has never looked even remotely the african american man he has been made out to be to me...

For one, we know full well that those in power would never have allowed a true African American to be in the White House. For one, they were the most directly oppressed group in US history since the genocide of Native Americans. They were slaves, and would thus never participate willingly, without being brainwashed or mind controlled, in the enslavement of their people. This is why the ruling Elite would not risk letting an individual of genuine African American heritage access the presidency.

Here is a picture of the Djoser serdab funerary statue found at the location of the first Pyramid ever built by this Pharaoh known by the name Horus-Netjerikhet. Somehow Barack Obama looks more like him that his alleged Kenyan father or his Ford Foundation trustee alleged mother (who coincidentally never raised him).

Secondly, his history is a tall tale of make believe without witnesses to his participation in his own biography. Somehow Obama is something like Woody Allen's movie character Zelig. Maybe this film maker was onto something having to do with entities infiltrating human history? This is the story of a most unusual individual infiltrating in seemingly innocuous ways all walks of life. It can be seen in segments on Youtube of which here are a few sequences.

The French have nicknamed him "Le Lezard" and here a billboard says:
"Only one wife, even for REPTILES"

Zelig doesn't seem able to stay away from the power Elite. He is in all the wrong places in the worse possible times:

Originally posted by Asmus
Looking at many of these people even from a non clones perspective (though I do believe many are)... Many of them do not look right. There is something "off" about many of our leaders.. look into their eyes, feel their eyes. You know if I could tell you specificaly what it is perhaps I would, but there is something simply that does not sit well there. Sometimes I ponder if holding a malevolant force withn them for extended periods of time would physicaly contort, manipulate, and alter them... reflecting on the outside what is contained on the inside. Perhaps then new hosts or "clones" are required to extend the parlor tricks...

They are indeed possessed. Some of their faces reveal this with little wiggle room for doubt. Others are able to produce a glazed expression or wooden poker face to shut out inquiring eyes. But their dark souls can be seen in their devious words and treacherous actions.

The man who financed Barack Obama's campaign to the tune of $1 Billion:

The man who groomed Barack Obama for the presidency:

The Obama puppet, with his arms dangling in the company of Royal Clones:

Regarding the Obama agenda, here is a link to some of the key people in the Obama administration, only to mention a few.

The Obama Agenda

posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 01:16 PM
But Obama is not the only Clone President currently in office.

Another historically important nation also hosts a Clone in its highest elected government position.

Namely France, in the person of a certain Nicolas Sarkozy who, like his colleague Obama, has little authentic history or intrinsic merit and comes from dubiously claimed unverified origins.

For one, his father, a Hungarian of small nobility, is very disappointed in his son's modest ascension to power. He feels that he could have done far better than becoming President of France, such as President of a larger nation such as United States. Such remarks made to mainstream media are quite puzzling, especially if you assume that he is his genuine biological father. Here is a picture of this unusual gentleman.

His son was photographed through a window in the government offices walking away from his former boss Dominique Marie François René Galouzeau de Villepin, who was at that time the French Premier. We can see their picture next to images of French author and philosopher, nobleman Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu to the left of the picture and to the right the "Awesome" (Grozny) Grand Duke of Moscow, Tsar Ivan IV of Russia better known at Ivan the Terrible.

Unlike the relatively subdued puppet Obama employed for the American electoral market, they have made use of a culturally localized clone for the French public whose behavior closely resembles that of the French version of "Punch and Judy" called Guignol who spends his time knocking people over the head with a stick, much in the same way President Sarkozy has been attacking the French establishment including former Premier Villepin whom he has dragged to court in a slander lawsuit that might make history as the first "Legal Battle of the Clones".

Here is an example of what his puppet behavior was designed to emulate in order to better penetrate the unconscious minds of the French electorate, the two hundred year old Guignol puppet show:

And here he is in action with speech characteristics and out of control hand gestures to bring back his subjects' fond childhood memories of the good old Guignol puppet shows they so enjoyed. Fact is indeed stranger than fiction.

Google Video Link

Regarding Nicolas Sarkozy's resemblance to Ivan the Terrible, here is another picture offering a comparison. We will note that it isn't as easy as with more recent DNA donors to ascertain the source of a clone of such ancient origins. Ivan IV lived almost 5 centuries ago and we must use what images remain as a testimonial of his physical appearance, while avoiding legends which falsify or exagerate certain features. Here is a comparison which you must take care to examine imagining the Tsar without his imperial attire and without his beard.

Sarkozy's real genetic heritage would then be that of Tsar Ivan IV of Russia. Here is a brief account of his predecessor, we can only hope that all of this was not programmed into his firmware or the French are in for some nasty surprises.

Ivan was only 3 years old when his father died. His uncle Yuri challenged his rights to the throne, was arrested and imprisoned in a dungeon. There he was left to starve. Ivan's mother, Jelena Glinsky, assumed power and was regent for five years. She had Ivan's other uncle killed, but a short time afterwards she suddenly died, almost surely poisoned. A week later her confidant, Prince Ivan Obolensky I, was arrested and beaten to death by his jailers. While his mother had been indifferent toward Ivan, Obolensky's sister, Agrafena, had been his beloved nurse. Now she was sent to a convent.

Not yet 8 years old, Ivan was an intelligent, sensitive boy and an insatiable reader. Without Agrafena to look after him, Ivan's loneliness deepened. The boyars alternately neglected or molested him; Ivan and his deaf-mute brother Yuri often went about hungry and threadbare. No one cared about his health or well being and Ivan became a beggar in his own palace. A rivalry between the Shuisky and the Belsky families escalated into a bloody feud. Armed men roamed the palace, seeking out enemies and frequently bursting into Ivan's quarters, where they shoved the Grand Prince aside, overturned the furniture and took whatever they wanted. Murders, beatings, verbal and physical abuse became commonplace in the palace. Unable to strike out at his tormentors, Ivan took out his frustrations on defenceless animals; he tore feathers off birds, pierced their eyes and slit open their bodies.

The ruthless Shuiskys gradually gained more power. In 1539 the Shuiskys led a raid on the palace, rounding up a number of Ivan's remaining confidants. They had the loyal Fyodor Mishurin skinned alive and left on public view in a Moscow square. On December 29, 1543, 13-year-old Ivan suddenly ordered the arrest of Prince Andrew Shuisky, who was reputed to be a cruel and corrupt person. He was thrown into an enclosure with a pack of starved hunting dogs. The rule of the boyars had ended.

By then, Ivan was already a disturbed young man and an accomplished drinker. He threw dogs and cats from the Kremlin walls to watch them suffer, and roamed the Moscow streets with a gang of young scoundrels, drinking, knocking down old people and raping women. He often disposed of rape victims by having them hanged, strangled, buried alive or thrown to the bears. He became an excellent horseman and was fond of hunting. Killing animals was not his only delight; Ivan also enjoyed robbing and beating up farmers.

We can be rightly concerned by this choice of a major leader being cloned from such controversial genetic material. While much of Ivan's behavior was due to his upbringing, he was also known as a great reformer, possibly making him the preferred choice to lead a new Europe to be integrated to a forthcoming New World Order, by and for... CLONES ?

[edit on 27-10-2009 by Getsmart]

posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 01:40 AM
Just some background info on cloning...

An article published in the journal “Human Molecular Genetics” says humans are easier to clone than other mammals b/c a crucial technical hurdle to the procedure does not exist for people. The researchers found that, unlike sheep, cattle, pigs and mice, where cloning results in a high number of foetal deformities and birth defects, humans possess an unusual genetic trait that mostly protects them from this risk. The work centred on a gene for a protein called insulin-like growth factor 2 receptor (IGF2R), which is known to be critical for the growth and normal development of an embryo in a womb. Cloned sheep and cows are known to suffer from "large offspring syndrome," where foetuses grow far bigger than normal, resulting in a high proportion of stillbirths and other developmental abnormalities. Scientists believe that this happens because the IGF2R gene is not functioning. Although sheep, cattle and most other mammals have two copies of this gene, only one of them is switched on. However, in some cloned animals, even this single functioning gene is switched off due to a complicated genetic phenomenon known as imprinting. Duke University researchers have found humans and other primates do not share this imprinting trait with other mammals. In humans, both copies of the IGF2R gene are switched on, suggesting that all clones would have at least one functioning gene, therefore making it likely that human cloning would be technically easier and safer. Dr Killian said: "... Since humans are not imprinted at IGF2R, then foetal overgrowth would not be predicted to occur if humans were cloned."

Humans 'easier to clone than sheep or mice'
By Steve Connor Science Editor
Wednesday, 15 August 2001

Severino Antinori is an Italian gynaecologist claiming to have cloned three babies who are now living in eastern Europe. He said cells from the three fathers, all of whom were sterile, allowed the cloning to be carried out. The women's eggs were impregnated in a laboratory through a method called "nuclear transfer."

Italian doctor claims to have cloned three babies

[edit on 28-10-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 06:42 PM

Thanks for exposing those links which suggest to us that scientists working on undeclared and unpublicized projects may have made considerable advances in human cloning to which we are not privy.

Advantages of Royal Blood

Regarding the consistent profile among our leaders of certain genetic characteristics through their heritage of genes through bloodlines or by the possible cloning of well known carriers of those genes who were former rulers, let us take a look at the relationship with genetic predispositions and mental faculties.

It would have been of great notoriety if Royal genes made one smart. There have been a great many rulers of Royal blood who not only failed to be geniuses, but were dim witted. This does not mean that they are less smart than commoners, only that a predisposition to have heightened mental abilities cannot be claimed for carriers of Royal blood.

Such blood does not make one exceptionally beautiful either, even if portrait painters of times past exercised their art to render Royal portraits downplaying any unsightly features and exalting their aesthetic traits. This of course does not make them any uglier than commoners, but cannot be claimed to offer any advantages of such genes for aesthetic purposes.

Royal blood does not grant better health or longevity to those of such lineage, the lifespans of Royals being seldom longer than those of their subjects except for access to better food and access to medical treatment. One cannot claim that such bloodlines enhance physical wellbeing.

Royal blood does not convey predispositions to moral behavior given that throughout history many nations fell prey to their own rulers' depravity and socially unacceptable acts. While this does not necessarily make them any worse than commoners can be, it cannot be upheld as a valid motive for furthering such genetic makeup.

Utility of Royal Genetics

Until we are provided better evidence of arguable qualities which those of Royal descent possess by virtue of their Blue Blood, we must examine what possible reason there could be for such a pursuit of genetic lineage not only among Royal monarchs, but also by the cloning of former monarchs as Presidents.

For this purpose, let us consider the relationship between certain genetic heredity and the propensity of an individual to be mind controlled. Such a predisposition is called by numerous names, depending often upon the culture in which it expresses itself or the circumstances of its manifestation.

Mental Health of Royals

We may call it Multiple Personality Disorder, Mind Controlled Alters, Demonic Possession or even Schizophrenia. This last description of such a state is interesting to inform ourselves about because there is a great deal of literature on this topic given the medical treatment of this prevalent condition.

We may also wish to consider at a later time what experimentation has been undertaken in psychiatric operations research by military and intelligence agencies since the beginning of the 20th century to exploit the weaknesses and strengths of such a condition for military and civilian purposes.

First, let us take stalk in normal clinical terms of what is generally considered as Schizophrenia.

Current Theories about the Causes of Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is a pervasive and mysterious mental disease. Even though over 2,000 articles on schizophrenia are published yearly (Gottesman, 1999) it is not known if schizophrenia has one major cause or an array of many causes (Torrey, 2001). To get a glimpse of the pervasity of this unsolved puzzle of a disease, it is important to consider the theories that are at the center of research today. The onset and course of schizophrenia are most likely the result of an interaction between genetic and environmental influences (Gottesman, 1999). The mystery is such that the answer might come in a combination of a couple of theories, a single one or even none of them. Below is a current description of the latest explanations of schizophrenia.

Current research suggests that schizophrenia can be caused by a genetic predisposition joined with environmental and psychosocial stressors. It is probable that there is an interaction between the level of predisposition, behavioral factors and environmental stressors. However, it is not known how the interaction happens.

One theory that is often mentioned is called the Developmental Theory. The Developmental Theory is based on pathophysiology and it includes an analysis of the process of the disease. This theory does not focus on the causes of the disease but when the disease begins. The Developmental Theory is based on the assertion that complications during the period of brain development might increase the risk of schizophrenia (Mednick, 1970).The complications might be caused by genes, infectious agents, alcohol, chemicals, medications, radiation, malnutrition or stressful experiences (Torrey, 2001). As a group these possible influences are called teratogens. During the first four months of development the embryo is vulnerable to teratogenic agents. The exposure of the embryo to certain teratogenic agents may result in death, cell damage or severe mental retardation (Newman, 1999).

The Genetic Theory and its variations play a major role in virtually every study on the origin of schizophrenia. It is not known if environmental factors combined with genetic factors lead to schizophrenia, or if genetic factors alone can cause it (Gottesman, 1999). Researchers agree that genes play some role in the development of schizophrenia and there is in fact enough evidence that shows that the risk of developing schizophrenia has some relation to the number of genes shared.

The author considers that Schizophrenia (commonly called "possession") requires a genetic predisposition triggered by environmental factors and psychological stress.


posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 06:57 PM

Implications for Mind Control

Illuminati family upbringing, based upon child abuse and psychological torture to fragment one's personality, creates the environmental conditions and psychological stressors to complete the transmission of such a genetic heredity. For details and explanations you may wish to read following book by Cisco Wheeler and Fritz Springmeier or listen to the seven part interview of a former Illuminati Mind Controller.

Illuminati Formula for Mind Control

Deeper Insights Into the Illuminati Formula

Whether controlled by specially trained handlers or by voices in their head, victims of schizophrenia or demonic possession are no longer in full control of their thoughts or actions. Even if they resist this influence, it can operate an effect, filtering their reality and focusing their outlook. Upon acquisition of complete control of an individual, only one's imagination can limit the potential consequences.

Relation to Demon Possession

We can note that among those affected by schizophrenia there is a great deal of concern about their condition being something other than a simple medical affliction. This is partly due to the inability of current psychiatry to cure or even satisfactorily treat this condition, and partly because of their perception of their condition which presents itself as demonic in nature. Here are a few discussions on internet forums about this very topic:

Demon possession and schizophrenia

Can This Actually Be Demonic Possession?

Political Implications

That our rulers, be they Kings or Presidents, be painstakingly genetically engineered or selected according to certain characterized predispositions is already unsettling. That the main probable cause of this selection is their propensity to be schizophrenic or possessed and mind controlled is far more dramatic.

This would mean that our leaders are not who we think they are. That our Queens and Premiers are not themselves in control of their own minds and are, in a strict sense, " Out of their Minds "!

Such a condition would leave the door wide open for exogenous manipulation by opportunistic courtiers, intriguing political lobbies, scientific laboratory controllers, foreign intelligence agencies, alien entities.

Such a condition is an affliction of human genetic composition medically termed schizophrenia which precludes those so diagnosed from a number of activities and professions. However up to this date, Rulers have never been subject to scrutiny or discrimination on this basis.

That such a "Feature" is actively sought and established as a desirable prerequisite to enable one to rule over humanity, generation after generation, going back as far as memory and history can account for, adds an eerie dimension to this disposition.

For what party, which mechanism, what conspiracy to subvert power and rule from behind the scenes using Mind Control could have persisted uninterrupted for so many centuries ? What pattern of behavior leading to a routine system of usurping power could mutate across regimes and social systems, to control hereditary Monarchs as well as elected Presidents, revolutionary Commissars and representative Premiers, political reformers and staunch conservatives alike ?

Philosophical Implications

Our paradigm of reality is impacted by this revelation. We consider that we are in a well ordered world where those in power have intrinsic merit or social justification for that privilege. Also we have harbored the illusion that we are free, free to do as we decide in a world of justice and free to choose our own rulers. Lastly we have been led to believe that those who rule us, our symbolic rulers and State figureheads are really those who orient our destiny and decide our fate.

What we must henceforth come to grips with is that our world is not well ordered, but ordered against us in many ways which imprison and enslave us. We may also envisage whether those who officially rule us are themselves well ruled, and by whom ? Who decides who rules us, why and with what final aim ? These are the essential questions we must answer to understand what has befallen humanity since the birth of our civilization.

We can consider to this end that there has been a pattern of occupation of power throughout the known history of humanity. The usurpation of power by undue influence on the minds and souls of our leaders has been a continuous practice. The genetic selection of supposed "rulers" who are in effect themselves dominated and controlled by others is evidence of this fact. This state of affairs is as current today as before, even if it offers a cosmetically disguised appearance of public consent through rigged electoral rituals.

We must assume that only 3 possible candidates for such a continuous and lasting presence are known to us at this time.

- Secret Society Occult Mystery Schools which have transmitted ancient lore up to the present day

- Demonic alien entities from another dimension which "possess" the souls and minds of our Rulers

- Extra-terrestrial aliens interfering in our Earthly affairs for an unknown agenda

We may also consider that these three possibilities are not necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, the Illuminati belong to a Secret Society which is Luciferian and conjures up demonic spirits. Demons may be extra-terrestrial given that they would be from another dimension not necessarily bound to our physical Earth. Aliens might be behind the demon worship of satanic cults to shock members into a more controllable mental condition. All three could be reunited or any combination of the above.

Please present other theories as to who is controlling World Leaders, and why. This is especially important to determine what sort of Global Rule they are seeking to establish with the New World Order that is being put into place as we speak. Given that we are kept in the dark even about who is behind our governing control system, we can assume that its finality is certainly not what we are told.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Getsmart]

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 12:50 AM
One president suspected of having been a clone is GW Bush.

Zeta Report on Bush clones:

...George W. Bush
The President GW Bush seen publicly is a clone. It was only when he became governor of Texas that it occurred to the powers that be to have him cloned. By that time, alcohol had seriously compromised his physical and mental status, so the first clone could only be a poor specimen. Because the art and science of human—or even animal—cloning is far from perfected, there is deterioration with each successive clone, so a replacement cannot be in much better condition than the predecessor. And since the brain’s storage unit cannot be downloaded into a physically-ready clone until a new one is required, because all knowledge to that date must be included, by now there is little chance that Bush’s mental condition will improve. The fact that he has no soul may be contributing to his stated belief that he has been anointed by God to do what he’s doing, but basically, it is the personality that is quite authentically reproduced in clones that you are witnessing...

Matthew/Suzanne Ward

...President Bush and his look-alikes, the biological identical twins who were raised in secure settings as a back-up, have been assured since birth that they would rule the world during the end times. It is no accident that Herbert Bush headed the CIA in the 1970's, and was selected as Reagan's vice president. The Bush family had plans. The Bush clones, who were in fact identical twins as the zygote was split and implanted into Barbara and several surrogate mothers, show the serious intent, as should the brother in the public eye develop a fatal illness or go insane or refuse to be directed by the cabal planning to rule the world, they could substitute another brother. At present there are only two brothers alive and operational - one in the White House, and the other living with the Puppet Master...

ZetaTalk: Bush on the Bottle

Why did the Zetas not tell us about the Bush clone until now?

As Nancy has explained, she was aware of this situation at least a couple years ago, due to out-of-body trips she was allowed to take with us. These were extensive, and involved becoming aware of devil worship practices, meetings inside the White House, and struggles between factions within the DOD. She was taken for discussions with the Puppet Master and his sons, who confirmed the situation with the clones (who are actually brothers), informing Nancy that there were 14 brothers altogether who were born. Thus, Nancy speaks of this not simply because we informed her via our telepathic communication. One of the brothers, who developed a health problem so does not have the physical appearance of the current clone acting as President, records the weekly radio show. There were 3 living clones who could act as President in 2000, but the one acting as the public face during the early years of the presidency was so damaged by coc aine and booze that he was considered out of control, and is secreted away, imprisoned, in case they need a body in which case he would be killed. Another clone was approached by the Puppet Master's agents and agreed to work with him. He is in Europe and could be substituted for the clone acting as the US President at any time. We came forth with this information at the present time as such an occurrence might happen, in our opinion, due to the collapse of the current clone acting as President in the public view. The clone working with the Puppet Master is, strictly speaking, not Service-to-Self, and would take orders from other than the crowd that took the White House by fraud in 2000 and 2004. Don't be shocked if a sudden change occurs! ...

ZetaTalk: GodlikeProduction Live

...Are the Bush twins/clones aware of each other? Who had the power to imprison the coked-up, boozing Version One, and which one had/is having the "affair" with Condi or Victor Ashe?

Obviously, the clones who were considered candidates for the inner circle are aware of each other. Some of them, due to accident, disease or personality problems that developed were rejected, and most of these were killed if they had even a clue as to the larger plan. Those who arrived at the year 2000 intact and in hand were very tightly under control, and not allowed free rein. Do the staff at the White House know? No, as only one clone at a time is allowed to be out and about. There are frequent conferences so all know what is happening, what has been said, the schedule for the next day and all. The current clone is much more comfortable with press conferences than the clone in place after the 2000 election. By the 2004 election, this first clone was in a type of prison, near Denver. He was the one who had an affair with Ashe. Laura Bush, of course, is much in the know about this, as she must appear with them all...

ZetaTalk: GodlikeProduction Live

Will Bush2 be teleported back at the end of his term to face karmic justice?

The Bush 2 clone was executed, gunshot to the head. He was not expecting this and felt no pain. Why was this done? It was felt there was a slight risk that he might escape, especially during Earth changes which could discombobulate the prison system where he would be held. If he escaped in Europe, this could potentially create a lack of confidence in government in the US, as it would be clear that doubles were being used. Bush 1 would be headed for a similar fate if his health were not so thoroughly destroyed. He is a drunk, and looks it...

ZetaTalk: GodlikeProduction Live

[All-caps in original]


This was a joke, right? Yeah...

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:09 PM
Hi Faulcon,

Thanks for that post showing how we've been fooled by another clone president, the Bush Son clone. Some believe that clones of former presidents are brought out of the hanger to parade in front of the press for symbolic empowerment purposes such as in the photo opportunity here with Barack Obama:

Some think that Jimmy Carter might have also been a clone. After all, should we think it normal that the man with the Nuclear Codes should react in an alarming way to a seemingly innocuous event?

Here is the author of the terror attack on the President of the United States:

Carter had gone on a solo fishing expedition in his hometown of Plains, Georgia when the rabbit approached his boat, "hissing menacingly, its teeth flashing and nostrils flared and making straight for the president",[1] trying desperately to enter the boat, causing Carter to flail at the swimming creature with the oars from his boat.

Upon returning to his office, Carter found his staff disbelieving of his story, insisting that rabbits couldn't swim, or that they would never approach a person threateningly. The incident was captured on footage taken by a White House photographer.

Monster Rabbit Attack

Dr. Beter also talks about this incident:

The holographic computer brains of the robotoids include instabilities which were present in the real Carter brain in a way that exaggerates those instabilities. As a result, every so often a Carter robotoid does something so unpredictable that it is dangerous to the Russians.

An example was the famous so-called "killer-rabbit incident" of a few weeks ago. A Carter robotoid told the press in all seriousness that he and his family had been attacked by a swamp rabbit while fishing. Can you imagine? The Russians want to rid themselves of the nerve-racking problem of the unstable Carter robotoids.

Earlier this month, on September 15, an attempt was made to do just that. The alleged President Carter was entered in a foot race, of all things, in the Catoctin Mountains near Camp David. It was a strenuous six-mile course which included much uphill running. Carter robotoid No. 14 was programmed to run at maximum speed and not to let up for any reason.

The Russian strategy was simple: Runners who over-exert themselves and who do not stop and rest when danger signs appear can do themselves serious harm. Sudden overheating, dehydration, and heart failure can take place abruptly in extreme cases. Robotoids, as I have explained in past tapes, embody a crude facsimile of human metabolism, their hearts are relatively weak, and they live for only a few weeks or months, depending on the stress problems. They have no self-preservation instinct, so Carter robotoid No. 14 was programmed to run like the wind.

It was expected that suddenly without warning he would suffer complete heart failure, collapse, and die on the spot. If the robotoid died before aid could reach him, everyone would just accept it as a tragic accident, and the Russians would be rid of the problem of unstable Carter robotoids. But the day of the race dawned cooler than it had been expected by the planners.

Carter robotoid No. 14 did collapse, but did not expire instantly. His face turned a deathly greenish-gray, and he was moaning and incoherent; and yet when the Secret Service men picked him up, his legs kept running as programmed. Finally an ambulance arrived, but Carter robotoid No. 14 did not use it. Instead the robotoid was bundled off in a car to Camp David, and there robotoid No. 14 finally died-too late, and out of public view...

So after the race, Carter robotoid No. 15 showed up to reassure everyone. He looked nothing at all like the deathly figure who had collapsed just a short while earlier in the race. He looked like a new man, and in a sense he was. The contrast between the dying robotoid No. 14 and the fresh robotoid No. 15 is something you can see for yourself. Just get a copy of Sports Illustrated magazine for September 24, 1979. On pages 16 and 17 you will see the pictures of robotoid No. 14-stricken, stumbling, mouth agape. Then look at the fresh, smiling picture of robotoid No. 15 handing out trophies on page 19 only a short while later, and then ask yourself: Is this the same man?

The Cloning of Man

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:40 PM
We're Not Talking Peanuts, Here....

During April of 1979, for the period of a week and a half, President Carter and Vice President Mondale were out of public view. Now, if you will remember, Carter was looking very sick and apparently he was. He was dying of leukemia and cancer, as a result of material injected into his food by the CIA. He went to Georgia with his family for a ten-day scheduled vacation. Walter Mondale supposedly went to Iceland, Scandinavia and the Netherlands. In other words, they had a double for him. The real Walter Mondale was executed by Operation Deep Freeze on the evening of April 20, 1979 in New Richmond, Wisconsin. On April 21, 1979, President Carter and his family were executed. I know this sounds hard and unbelievable. [Editor note: Actually, Dr. Peter Beter, a man with a list of impressive credentials a mile long, maintained this fact adamantly, before he was killed. I have seen the material, and the documentation was
They've all been replaced by clones. Jimmy Carter has had at least 18 clones since he was killed in 1979. The person we see, and the person who recently went to Korea in 1996, is not a real human being. He is what they call a synthetic.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 08:38 PM
Dr. Beter seemed to think that Carter was replaced w/ organic robotoids (Fritz Springmeier seemed to agree, but Alex Collier seemed to think he was cloned).

... On Saturday April 21, Jimmy Carter flew secretly from Georgia
to Camp David unaware that Mondale was dead. After lunch he went
to Bethesda Naval Hospital for a checkup on his cancer and then
to the White House briefly. It was not until roughly 8:00 PM
that night that the real Jimmy Carter returned to Plains. There
about 10:30 PM Jimmy Carter, President of the United States, was
shot between the eyes, but incredibly he retained some signs of

During the past several days Jimmy Carter No. 2 (that is,
Carter's "double") has been seen repeatedly in public--and what a
change! Jimmy Carter No. 2 looks and acts 10 years younger than
the real Carter did...

Thechange in appearance and behavior are so striking that something
had to be done to focus peoples' attention in a way that would
explain it all away--in other words, distraction. And so the new
Jimmy Carter, the "double", is receiving great publicity over the
fact that he parts his hair on the left; the old Carter, of
course, parted it on the right. So now anyone who looks at him
and thinks, "Carter sure looks different these days", will also
think, "I guess it's the hair that does it." ...

Dr. Peter David Beter - Audio Letter No. 45.

When an organic robotoid is made to simulate, for example, our late President Jimmy Carter, two major factors are involved. One is the genetic coding required to simulate Carter’s appearance, voice, fingerprints, and so on. The other is a holographic image of Carter’s brain. This image is a complete record of the neuron patterns which existed in Carter’s brain at the moment the hologram was made. Therefore it contains all of the memory and knowledge Carter had up to that moment.

When a Carter robotoid is made, the biological computer in its head is caused to form according to the holographic record of Carter’s brain. However, certain portions of the robotoid computer are caused to deviate from the holographic record. The end result is a biological computer which has to be programmed but which contains essentially all of Carter’s memory, involuntary mannerisms, and the like. As a result, a Carter robotoid will automatically do certain kinds of things without the need for specific programming. For example, a Carter robotoid will seem to recognize old friends. That’s because the computer memory of the robotoid reproduces Carter’s memory of that friend. The holographic process puts it there automatically without the Russian programmers even having to know it’s there...

Audio Letter #47
Dr. Peter Beter

That incident w/ the "killer rabbit" betrayed the instability in the copies. Apparently, the real Carter had some mental instabilities that became worse & worse w/ each copy. The marathon Getsmart posted on was an attempt to do away w/ the Carter problem, but it didn't work.

posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 10:41 PM
From the Phoenix Journal at

...On October 9, 1979 Carter robotoid No. 18 was scheduled to hold a news conference. Three days earlier, Brezhnev No. 2 had made his proposals in East Berlin for military reduc tions in Europe. Robotoid No. 18 had been programmed to react positively to the proposals but instead your alleged President said, quote: “I think it’s an effort designed to disarm the willing ness or eagerness of our allies adequately to defend themselves.” The Rus sians were totally dumbfounded. This was a fresh robotoid, surely the re curring insta bility problem could not be showing up so rapidly. After the news conference, he was bundled off for ex amination and testing, and that produced the second big surprise. It was not robotoid No. 18 at all, but a total synthetic. The synthetic was then transported to Novosibirsk for fur ther study. There, robotoid scientists were able to establish an impor tant and unpleasant fact: the source of the genetic material used in generating the synthetic had been robotoid No. 18; and whereas the Russian robotoids vary somewhat from one to another, the synthetic was virtually identical in ap pearance to the missing robotoid No. 18. But an important favorable fact was also discovered—the synthetics are inferior mentally to the robotoids. It wasn’t clear at the time how fast the Bolsheviks would be able to deploy the synthetics, but the guerilla war between the Rothschild synthetics and the Russian robotoids was underway...

From Dr. Beter's audio files about robotoids & synthetics:

This is why this thread is posted in the "General Conspiracy Discussion" section of ATS, where it rightfully belongs.

I agree. Too bad someone decided to put it in skunk works. Whatever.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:59 AM

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

This is why this thread is posted in the "General Conspiracy Discussion" section of ATS, where it rightfully belongs.

I agree. Too bad someone decided to put it in skunk works. Whatever.


ATS might be gradually drifting the "groupthink" towards the Mainstream?

Of course this is just a wild speculation without factual basis, posted in the padded room of Skunk Works where we are allowed to have opinions without producing evidence for them.

Since we are now hosted by other Moderators who are presumably more tolerant of our discussion topic, perhaps we can venture further in this thread without being bumped to an even less appropriate location. This thread has already earned me some reaction by those who are equipped to identify anonymous posters in places such as this.

If this thread remains active, please continue it, and in case it vanishes I incite all viewers in this forum to download its pages to their computer (right click of the mouse and "save as" with a PC) so that it can be seeded elsewhere on the internet. We are clearly onto something which disturbs quite a few parties running the show.


While I cannot know what hidden powers or geopolitical intrigues are going on behind the scenes, Dr. Beter's recordings date back to the Cold War era and reflect the strategic divide present then. We may need to reconsider some of what he says in the light of today's shifting global chess game.

Regarding an earlier post about the French President Sarkozy possibly having been cloned from a 16th century Tsar's genetic material, nothing would prevent that from being done with current technology. Why that DNA instead of using a toe nail clipping from your great uncle? Maybe for certain characteristics dear to the Illuminati.

You noted that Ivan the Terrible's childhood deprivation and severe trauma granted that ruler the environmental stimulus and psychological stressors to trigger such schizophrenia to such an extent that his reputation has lasted to this day. He may have been eminently controllable through what we now call Alters, embedded identities implanted in his mind as a child during extreme abuse. It is possible that this may have even reinforced such a tendency in his chromosomes, making his DNA a choice source of controlled clone material.

Some fathers are not very fatherly. And some abandon their children having little if any contact with them. This type of history would provide a useful backdrop for enabling a clone to emerge relatively unnoticed, yet having a certain "pedigree" or family history. This happens to be the case of Nicolas Sarkozy.

Here is an article about his father, a desperate immigrant with nothing to lose, He wandered the streets of Paris penniless with even resorted to joining the French Foreign Legion with prospects of dying parachuted behind enemy lines or many years later possibly getting a new lease on life as a French citizen with all previous identity and criminal records wiped clean. Apparently somebody offered him that second option, and even becoming the public relations father of a Presidential clone.

How Nicolas Sarkozy's father once lived rough in Paris

We can appreciate that his interesting life has left Pal Sarkozy de Nagy-Bocsa with a strong sense of humor. He went so far as to offer his alleged son a gift for his presidential inauguration, a portrait he painted of his son which is displayed prominently in the presidential palace. For a few weeks it was loaned out to Pal's special exhibit tastefully titled "Out of Mind" and presented among some 35 other paintings by the artist whose physique happens to greatly differ from that of his presidential son. Here he is seen at that event with his son Olivier who apparently resembles him a great deal more (they are both tall in dark suits).

Let us take a moment to examine his portrait of his son which he proudly shows off here:

Closer examination of this painting shows that Mr. Sarkozy has taken quite a bit of artistic liberty in portraying his "son" at the center of what seems to be an interesting conspiracy. Here is the portrait in unfortunately too low a resolution to make out all of its details.

By doubling the size of some details we can guess what they might represent. To the left side near his head we can see a representation of a Rothschild agent sent to destabilize and overturn Tsarist Russia, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov better known as Lenin. Lenin happens to be leaning over a baby. Given that this is a portrait, it can be assumed that this symbolizes the president as an infant and reveals his true paternity.

The center view of the painting shows a child in the water creating a Tidal Wave over France symbolized the French Elysee Palace.

His left ear sports an earring with a dangling honorific Legion of Honor medal next to which a mask or face is being shouted orders or mind control instructions.

Inside his wrist we see an image which looks a lot the George W. Bush clone talking to him on the phone.

To the right we can see a Tower of Babel illustrating what is going on today in world politics, where this finds its roots and what we may be heading for?

President Sarkozy is pointing at his own head, he is pointing at who is really controlling this cloned presidential puppet... an Alien Grey?

[edit on 30-10-2009 by Getsmart]

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