Gary McKinnon suicidal following U.S. bullying

reply to post by Malcram

How bad his crime was, if this should carry this way, is a very different discussion from my point. Don't put things in the same bag.

My point is that people take a huge step in supporting and defending this guy just because we are a ufology community.

Read before posting.

You are debating the punishment and law.

I'm debating the attitude of people in this forum just because he said he was searching for the truth about UFO's.

-EDIT-

I haven't seen anyone come forward with information that makes his claims true. If he hacked, and got the info about aliens and UFO..........where is it?

Dunno why (I actually know...but what the hell...) but I guess I'll never see that happening.

[edit on 10/10/09 by Tifozi]

Isn't hacking defined as theft or sabotage/damage? If so, the perp, in this case, did neither.

Correct, there were blank passwords on the pc's he got into, meaning he didn't hack #. Also originally the USA couldn't get him sent over coz he didn't do any damage, once they found that out they instantly said "oh btw he did x amount of damage to our computer systems" with x being the exact amount of damage required to have him extradited. #ing arseholes.

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by Malcram

 

How bad his crime was, if this should carry this way, is a very different discussion from my point. Don't put things in the same bag.

My point is that people take a huge step in supporting and defending this guy just because we are a ufology community.

Read before posting.

You are debating the punishment and law.

I'm debating the attitude of people in this forum just because he said he was searching for the truth about UFO's.

I did 'read'. However, I don't always find your posts very comprehensible, at some points. What point do you feel I am missing?

This whole thread is about 'punishment and law' isn't it? You said people are supporting him just because we are interested in UFO's and because that is what McKinnon said he said he was looking for evidence of. I am pointing out that people are supporting him also because what the U.S. system is trying to do to him is unreasonable, illegal and inhumane, and Gary has many supporters (including MPs) who don't necessarily believe in UFO's or NASA coverups but support him because they see he is being treated unjustly. Doesn't that directly refute your point that this is only about UFO geeks defending each other?

If I am missing your point perhaps you can rephrase it for the sake of clarity?



[edit on 11-10-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by Lazyninja

 

My point is that people take a huge step in supporting and defending this guy just because we are a ufology community.

To me, that's bad.

The same disproportionately huge steps are being taken by other community to make sure this guy is locked up. The American judicial system has wasted untold millions attempting to get this guy into one of their jails for a minor crime. This is all happened because the elite community, Nasa, DoD and the judicial system are all buddies.

It's a good thing that Gary has supporters, or he'd probably be in Guantanamo bay getting raped or something.

IMO, Garry is one hell of a guy. A man I admire and look up to. He had the guts to risk his life and freedom, for the sake of all man kind...TPTB are the real criminals, and always have been. They don't like people like Garry, people willing to break a few rules to reveal the truth, for it is these rules and laws that keep their secrets so well hidden. How can we ever expect to win against a corrupt group that constantly screws us around in every imaginable way...if we aren't willing to screw them around a little. They have most of us under their thumb...weak slaves obeying them mindlessly...at least Garry had the courage to TRY...but one man will never succeed, he will only be viciously torn apart...only when we can come together as one people will we ever pull down the curtain. May the strength of all freedom fighters be with Garry.

crimes don't exist except in our own minds, all he did was show people the truth about our government's secrecy, is honestly all that bad?

I think this whole case stinks to high heaven. You have a UK citizen, on UK soil, who does something that is against the law in the United States. And the US extradites the guy to the US to punish him? And the UK government goes along with the US?

Think of it in reverse. Some cracker who's a US citizen, while in the US, hacks into a computer in Russia. Russia is pissed off, so they extradite the US citizen to face Russian law.

The notion that this guy was somehow doing something noble is misguided. Juat because a system is left vulnerable, it doesn't give anyone the right to abuse it. If you forget and leave your keys in your car, do people have a right to take your car? If you forget to lock the door to your house, do people have a right to enter your house and look around, even if they don't touch anything or steal anything? I think not. That's not the point. The guy broke US law.

No, the UK is throwing this guy to the wolves (us), because the US is the rich schoolyard bully. If we can't bribe someone to do what we want, we can threaten them, and there is no one else to call us on it.

Aww is poor little baby suicidal. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time. Besides hackers never get much time anyways the longest sentence given to a hacker was to kevin mitnick back in the 90s and it was only a few years. And that was after running from the government as a fugitive for years and tapping fbi phones and all kinda stuff. Much more than mckinnon did and he still only got a few years.This dude needs to man up and stop pulling the sympathy card.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by Malcram


People support him because they are sad little folk who cannot help but to latch on to some cause or another. It seems to fill some empty space I have termed "the black hole of social empathy". The same sort of people who show fake sorrow when someone they don't know, or never even heard of, dies tragic. Empathy groupies.

He committed an offence in both countries, it's just one decided to get anal about it all like they always to when someone makes them look like a fool.



[edit on 11-10-2009 by quackers]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by quackers]

Fair enough, he knowingly committed a crime and is willing to serve the time. That isn't the problem. The problem is that your !@#!$@# #@!#$!@ !#@$!@ U.S. Government claims he did enormous amounts of damage, just the right amount required to extradite him...when it's obvious he didn't. They don't even need to provide proof he caused damage to the systems, how unjust. Like another poster said, hackers don't get long jail time normally...so why are they trying so hard to put him away for 60 years? As for the car analogy. Garry didn't steal the unlocked car, he just took it for a little test drive to find any "problems" with it...you see...he wasn't really hacking at all...merely looking in a door left open.

[edit on 11/10/09 by CHA0S]

Leaving the door open in hardly a defence. He actively sought out the information, fully expecting it to be hard to get, fully willing to break the law to get it, by hi own admission. The fact NASA or whoever where stupid enough to leave the door wide open it besides the point as he should never have been there in the first place.

If I take my computer to be fixed, it is illegal for them to just go browsing my stuff without my permission. And thats even if I handed it over to them. Why people seem to think that's it's ok because he didn't need to put much effort into his crime, well it's beyond me.

I couldn't care less about MacKinnon, he's a nobody who is crying because he got caught, what people should really be concerned about is the completely one sided process that has allowed him to be extradited. It has shown just how spineless the UK government is, and it has shown just how childish the US government is.

No-one can truly know anyone elses true motives for anything, but if he was really trying to uncover secrets, then I am sure he found lots as the hidden stuff must be plenty. As in life, we don`t need to know anything, we are just livestock, the problem for him is that they can`t know for sure what he found. So they only have a few options, kill him, publicly declare that he has gone crazy ( after all who would believe anything he said when the people in charge have told us that he is unstable and that he want`s to kill himself ), find him dead ( after telling us he is suicidal ), lock him up big time ( and while he is there, find him dead ).

Either way I feel his days are numbered, the biggest thing for them now is not punishment for a crime, but silencing him. His biggest crime is not being part of their world, where you can lie, steal, cheat, kill, all in the name of ruling. The worst thing is that the rules they make up as they go along, only apply to us !

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Qwenn]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Qwenn]

Originally posted by quackers
Leaving the door open in hardly a defence.

Yes...as I said, I have no argument there, he did knowingly commit a crime.

Originally posted by quackers
Why people seem to think that's it's ok because he didn't need to put much effort into his crime, well it's beyond me.

People don't think what he did was ok because it was easy, they support him because he did what most of us fear doing, going up against TPTB. He had the courage to fight the system in order to reveal the truth to all of man kind. The fact that he went undetected for years and didn't actually "hack" ie crack passwords etc shows that he was simply looking for something...not causing damage. If I had the guts and skill, I would do the exact same thing. It is for these reasons this man is respected and seen as a freedom fighter. The real criminals here who deserve to rot in prison are the people hiding the information from us in the first place. This man would not be in the situation he is in if we didn't have greedy and corrupt people in control.

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
Dont do the crime if you cant do the time.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

I'm seeing a lot of these kinds of comments and they don't really make that much sense in the context of this particular case. The problem for many here is that "the time" is farcically disproportionate to the actual "crime". The two just aren't really connected in the way that you're suggesting.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Well I don't know about other countries but here in the US when people get caught for things they always threaten then with rediculous amounts of years in prison. Hardly anyone actually gets that. Especially for computer related things. The guy I was talking about in my last post was threatened with up to 150 years or some rediculous thing and he only got like 4 or something.

If gary mckinnon actually does get 60 years or whatever they are threatening him with then I'll agree thats really rediculous. But if he does get just a few years then big deal.

Most of the people who are for Gary going to jail, don't know the whole story. Sometimes they don't even know anything other than he hacked some NASA computers. Most of them don't realize just how addicting hacking can be. Especially when you stumble upon something soo huge and open.

If you really listen to his story, you can clearly see that the guy was set up. These were NASA computers and they weren't password protected. That make sense to anyone at all? Every single system he (and others) got into were purposely left like that. They WANTED people to get in to see that stuff. He did this off and on for a few YEARS. Again these are NASA computers. They should have some of the highest forms of security and no passwords? They didn't see him (and those others) in their systems during that period? Come on...

Gary just happens to be the one they picked to make an example out of.

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Well I don't know about other countries but here in the US when people get caught for things they always threaten then with rediculous amounts of years in prison. Hardly anyone actually gets that. Especially for computer related things. The guy I was talking about in my last post was threatened with up to 150 years or some rediculous thing and he only got like 4 or something.

If gary mckinnon actually does get 60 years or whatever they are threatening him with then I'll agree thats really rediculous. But if he does get just a few years then big deal.

With regards to sentencing outside the US, as far as I'm aware, the US is fairly unique in sentencing people to fantastic and improbable terms in prison. I'm not really aware of people being sentenced to things like 250 years in prison and so on, which I understand isn't that uncommon for things like multiple murders and so on.

Another point is the actual extradition itself and the nature of this very dubious 'special relationship'.

reply to post by nightmare_david


I believe they are called honeypots. Systems that are intentionally left open or not very secure to attract hackers so they can be busted. I do kind of think thats what gary found cause I seriously cant believe any government would just leave computers with important stuff in them open to anyone.

And I'm not really for anyone going to jail except for like rapists and murderers...etc. The justice system is corrupt as hell. But he did do something that is illegal here in the us as well as pretty much every other country. Regardless ifthe systems were intentionally left open or not.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by ufo reality

 

Let's keep our heads when dealing with this person! He committed a crime and he has to pay for it. The dealing between nations has nothing to do with the basic crime. He is a criminal.

Let's be real. He is a British citizen resident in Britain having no relation whatsoever with the USA. He did nothing wrong under British laws. Under British law Pentagon and NASA would have been accused of not upholding adequate means of protection of their systems.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
reply to post by Skeptical Ed

 

Uhh the extradition angle is not relevant? Would you like to be extradited to another country for committing a crime in your own country? Specially if said country is known for torturing people?

The UK and the US has a very faulty extradition agreement. The US has the right to request the extradition of anybody from the UK for whatever reason, but not the other way around. G. Brown likes to defend this "special relationship between the UK and the US".