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Gary McKinnon suicidal following U.S. bullying

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posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by nerbot
reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


Well pointed out dear chap, "they" just want people to think they are working for public interests to keep the support for the public funding.


Exactly, i would bet that nasa are filled with plenty of dark secrets, that we should all know about.

the ignorant masses do not even understand people was tortured and murdered, in experimnts to get men to the moon. It was a long process that started in germany and continued in usa.




posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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I see a lot of uninformed opinions on McKinnon and the whole case, along with some very pertinent questions as well.

nightmare_david mentioned that McKinnon was set up.

About 9 monhts ago I wrote Gary McKinnon, Honeynets and Disinformation where I theorize the systems McKinnion breached were honeynets. It seems to me that there's a high probability that some of the machines McKinnon breached were indeed part of some honeynet.

But McKinnon didn't just log in "blank admin password" systems. Here's his actual DOJ indictment file, which curiously enough posts the IP addresses of the alleged machines McKinnon hacked.

McKinnon copied password files, deleted accounts, among other things. So he did damage some systems. There's no doubt in my mind that McKinnon committed several crimes, but the 60 years they are giving him for this is unprecedented and raises a few questions.

Is this a message to any keyboard heroes out there thinking about hacking US Government computers in order to find information about UFOs or other sensitive topics?

And one last point - lazyninja mentioned this - the United States is a country known for torturing detainees. I hope McKinnon and his lawyers take this to a higher instance, the European Court of Human Rights for example, because I think they have a good case.

What's more shameful is that the UK Government, which is prohibited by law to extradite prisoners to countries that torture, apparently isn't doing anything trying to prevent the extradition.

McKinnon broke laws. He committed crimes. He should be in jail. But just because you are a prisoner you don't cease to have rights, despite the attempts of the Bush Administration in the past 8 years saying otherwise.


[edit on 11-10-2009 by converge]



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Skeptical Ed
 


Oi! what?

I'm sorry that statement you made, made me laugh, he was looking for evidence of UFO's and Aliens the stuff WE all want to know.. I see him as a freedom fighter not a criminal.

In fact they should get him a job as a tester of security or a cyber hacker waging war on other countries.

Remember many of the countries today were founded and reformed by "criminals" and "traitors"



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by ufo reality
 


Let's keep our heads when dealing with this person! He committed a crime and he has to pay for it. The dealing between nations has nothing to do with the basic crime. He is a criminal.


I agree, he should totally get a year in the pokey for logging into unsecured machines in a different country.
Considering he didnt actually break down or disrupt computer services, the "damages" they claim is non existant...so, his crime was literally seeing something.

Wonder if there was a warning stating logging into a computer network was a crime incidently...and wonder if it applies to citizens of different countrys..no matter, the UK folded without so much as even a raised eyebrow in his case, so whatever..



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by converge
McKinnon copied password files, deleted accounts, among other things. So he did damage some systems. There's no doubt in my mind that McKinnon committed several crimes, but the 60 years they are giving him for this is unprecedented and raises a few questions.


McKinnon isn't getting 60 years. That is the maximum penalty he faces if he is tried and convicted. Though that is the maximum penalty, it isn't necessarily what he will get. Observers expect...


It is likely that he would receive a much lighter sentence and that, under a plea bargain offer, he would spend six to 12 months in a US jail before being returned to Britain to serve the rest of his sentence.
SOURCE



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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i personally think that our goverment is that far up the americans arse now that what they say goes, i feel ashemed that no 1 in the world has stood up to do something. days go by and nothing changes, everything is getting worse, surley something has to happen?

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jonnydavx]



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Raider of Truth


In fact they should get him a job as a tester of security or a cyber hacker waging war on other countries.


No, thats just silly...this guy has very little tech skills frankly, he just got lucky.

the idiots at the pentagon and nasa forgot to change the administrators password (they left it default blank)...all he did was simply log in via remote networking...UN: Administrator PW: (blank)

That is a oversight on the network security people at these places...they, I imagine, got fired for being morons and forgetting a very basic step in setting up networks (or they purposefully left it blank so they could later on grab stuff)

This guy did no hacking...unless you consider when you sign into ATS here, your actually hacking into the ATS database...heh

He simply got lucky, not "haz l33t hAx0r sk1llz"



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by jonnydavx
 


Have you not noticed the apathy, things like daily show like jon stewert the plank of wood, help this.

I would not expect this to change any time soon.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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McKinnon is an innocent (enough) freedom fighter ONLY to those who are truly interested in facts about UFOs and whatever related anti-secrecy (or anti-rule BY secrecy) material. This is even if the man himself is an unwitting or even unwilling freedom fighter-truthseeker. Let's check the CONTENT of what he discovered, for once. Someone feel free to add to or correct this, if applicable, since this is just what I have gleaned as far as the specific bombshells McKinnon discovered:

1. a list of Non-Terrestrial Officers apparently stationed off-planet
2. a list of ships/vessels [named USS (This and That)] that didn't match with any known registry of Earth-based ships



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Considering he didnt actually break down or disrupt computer services, the "damages" they claim is non existant...so, his crime was literally seeing something.



The US authorities claim he deleted critical files from operating systems, which shut down the US Army’s Military District of Washington network of 2,000 computers for 24 hours, as well as deleting US Navy Weapons logs, rendering a naval base's network of 300 computers inoperable after the September 11th terrorist attacks. They claim the cost of tracking and correcting the problems he caused was $700,000.
SOURCE

How is that "non-existent" damage? Do you have any evidence that the authorities are lying about this? Evidence the UK Courts and House of Lords did not have when they considered the case?

While McKinnon does deny these allegations, he does admit to vandalism...


Calling himself Solo, he left a threatening message: “US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days? It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand-down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.”

“The reason I left not just one note, but multiple notes on multiple desk-tops, was to say ‘Look, this is ridiculous’.”
SOURCE



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Dean Goldberry
 


And where are these lists? He makes these claims but has no evidence to support it.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Heres the thing though....

Should he do a year upstate, he will come out actually more popular than when going in...imagine writing on your resume "I was extradited and imprisoned publically for finding out too much".

Say hello to a future big name in UFOlogy once all this time nonsense goes away...even if has little to add to the subject, he will continue to have that "star power" that UFOlogists tend to get off on.

As far as him talking about what he seen...he can talk about it till the cows come home, he simply cannot profit from it (in the US, not sure if that will apply to him overseas).

So, if he could be locked into a year through plea bargaining, then he should actually be seeing it as a 1 year investment that will set him up good for life.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Say hello to a future big name in UFOlogy once all this time nonsense goes away...even if has little to add to the subject, he will continue to have that "star power" that UFOlogists tend to get off on.


Which will be a sad indictment of the UFO community. In fact, it already is. McKinnon is getting support from the UFO community for what? He has claims but no proof, and his claims are accepted wholesale despite this.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


I don't know if he printed anything he saw. I hope he did and managed to stash them in a VERY safe place. If not, I'm sure his testimony, either in a court of law or in a well-publicized interview (preferably on TV) would be credible enough.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
is that "non-existent" damage? Do you have any evidence that the authorities are lying about this? Evidence the UK Courts and House of Lords did not have when they considered the case?



Ahh, see, here in the America's, the burden of proof lies on the sholders of the prosecution.

He has admitted to logging in, and looking at stuff (he frankly shouldnt have even admitted to that publically, but he is from what I see, completely nieve and thinks if he simply speaks the truth endlessly that will set him free)...and has said absolutely nothing about deleting anything, and when asked, he refused point blankly.

The prosecution can say he is responsible for the fall of the dollar, JFK assassination, and AIDS, but the proof so far is only that he logged in.

I will be watching the case carefully of course, as I suspect lots of us geeks will, and see how many lines of traceable bullocks the prosecution puts out. If its a fair and open trial, then there is several ways to find out if things were deleted, at what time, by which IP, and if anything has been tampered with...however, there is also ways in which you can make things look like something when their not (hello world of computers)..so, in high tech cases, it is extremely difficult to prove absolutely anything beyond "logging in" unless the person confesses to it or traces of the crime is on the computer (and even that can be manipulated).

Finally...700k for deleting accounts...it takes about 1 minute to create a user account, it takes about 2 minutes to retrieve any deleted documents (and less to simply roll back). That is a absolute lie (yep, professional network admin...I know the cost of having to retrieve deleted information and accounts, and my career trade is document management). 700k my ass, but hey, some will believe it...why just 700 though, why not say 15 trillion dollars damage and use that for more black op projects.

Again, he deserves a year in the pokey and thats about it...but frankly, the UK should had demanded a mountain of evidence and a written agreement of a max possible sentence if found guilty before even considering letting him go

deny ignorance.

-edited for spelling-

[edit on 11-10-2009 by SaturnFX]



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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It's quite amusing what they claim - how much damage he caused and how much it has cost to fix (probably, 'Hmm this Server got compromised so let's go and buy a new one!' - typical wastage).

He used the most basic of methods to log into what is 'supposed' to be one of the most secure systems on the planet and made them look like utter fools. That's why they want to 'punish' him out of sheer embarrassment.

What is scary is what people who 'truly' know how to hack must have been doing and what they must know (and are probably still doing it). China, Israel, Korea, Russia?

Fine, he committed a crime - but why on earth don't they just have trial over here where he can be sentenced. Why is it SO important that he stands trial in the US? How much money have they wasted in legal fees trying to get him extradited? Ridiculous.

I say he deserves a pat on the back.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by converge
 


He should be tried in the UK under UK Law not extrdited to the US to face US justice. That is my problem with this whole issue.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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Debating on where he should be tried is moot, hes lost his appeals and the two countries have come to an agreement on where he will stand trail. Nothing we say here will ever change that

Now to address those people who said he comitted no crime, I present a quote from the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act:


Criminal Offenses Under The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

-Knowingly accessing a computer without authorization in order to obtain national security data
-Intentionally accessing a computer without authorization to obtain:
-Information contained in a financial record of a financial institution, or contained in a file of a consumer reporting agency on a consumer.
-Information from any department or agency of the United States
-Information from any protected computer if the conduct involves an interstate or foreign communication


He did in fact commit a crime, he knowingly accessed systems which he was not authorized to use. To draw a very simple analogy: its still a crime if i walk through your open front door and write down your CC# from your bill on the kitchen table. For those who advocate he is innocent of all charges I suggest leaving your front door propped open, once you are robbed inform me of what you think of the experience.

As for the claims of no damage being done ask an IT director to give you a quote for how many man-hours it would take (and the pay rate for those people) to completely restore every computer on their network. Its not a fast process and can quite easily rack up a lot of OT for the people who have to fix the situation.

Dude's quest for information is noble, and chances are he may be right about the alien cover up, but he needs to man the hell up and take responsibility for his actions. At the end of the day its just a case of not being responsible for ones actions because surely he has to have read about what happened to Kevin Mitnick in the past, so he should know that the hammer drops hard when computer criminals are caught.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Helig
 



No it is not, He is a UK Citizen whom commited this crime within the UK. So there fore he should be tried in this country, not the US.

If you want to have this argument, ten I want those Airmen extradited from the US to the UK to face trial under UK Law for the friendly fire incident during the Gulf war.

Will the US Government comply with this hell no.

So why should we adhere to the extradition agreement when your country does not adhere to it!



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Good morning,

Gawd this thread is getting irritating.
First off, to all of the people posting that he broke the laws blah blah blah, you have also broken the SAME laws, if this is put into context.

A computer running a "Service" that can be connected to by other computers is considered a "Server". Can we agree on that? If that is the case, it's only through the benevolence of the ATS owners that WE are all not considered hackers. As ATS Is running a WEB service, that presents information, requires no password to access, is privately owned and is easily accessible.

The windoze systems that were accessed were also running a service. In this case "Netbios" and "Telnet". There was no access controls on these services and many people accessed them. Contrary to what all of the "Burn Him" group are saying, there are MANY services that do not require a web browser or passwords to access. Just because YOU don't know how to access them does not make it against the law. IE: Ftp can have blank users and blank passwords, Gopher, Archie and Veronica also do not need authorization to access, Usenet (nntp) may or may not need a password and certainly do not need a browser to access.

Honeypots. Back in the mid 90's.... there weren't any. especially running on win 9x or 3.1 systems. Windows password lists, or .pwl's back in the day were NOT transportable. So copying them is useless. If it were text files he copied that were password lists then the person who created them should have been fired. (option b, the NT sam is an encrypted password setup, he didn't decrypt this, not based on his level of experience.) This was the 90's people. So based on the above, imagine for a moment, if you have read this far, that one day ATS decides it is no longer a public service. Accessing ATS, even without a password, would then be a crime as severe as the one McKinnon faces.

Anyone remember the "notepad" virus? this was a small virus that would scan netblocks looking for open netbios shares. copied itself to notepad.com so when you can any notepad enabled app it would launch the virus and scan sequential netblocks. So this isn't an uncommon service that is hard to access.

Should Gary be punished for hacking? Sure, he accessed computers "deemed" private by their owners. Could ANY of us also face that same charge? YES, just by surfing the web you could access a server "Deemed" Private. In Fact, I just deemed one of my webservers as private. Ta da, now anyone visiting is considered a criminal.

Netbios browsing, SPX/IPX browsing, ftp scanning are all ways people used to use to access open computers. The rule at the time was that if it was open, it was OPEN. Lets put this in context to what actually happened at the time and not compare him to Kevin Mitnick who used social engineering and complex hacking processes to commit his crimes.

Thanks
.Ex



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