"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
Exactly why did you bring up womens' high heeled shoes?

What did you mean by this?

As a counter example to illustrate how absurd your suggestion to ban the hijab/burqa was, with the added point that wearing heels is actually proven to do damage.

Originally posted by poet1b
Why in the world do you accuse western men of forcing their women to wear high heeled shoes?

I'm curious why they would do it. Some weird misplaced idea of "beauty". Much like the foot binding practiced in ancient China.
And I'm not alone in my assumption:

TEH LINKERZZZ!!!111!
Many second-wave feminists rejected what they regarded as constricting standards of female beauty, created by men for the subordination and objectifying of women. “In 1973 I gave up beauty practices as part of that movement, supported by the strength of the thousands of heterosexual and lesbian women around me who were also rejecting them,” declared the radical feminist Sheila Jeffreys in Beauty and Misogyny. “I stopped dyeing my hair ‘mid-golden sable’ and cut it short. I stopped wearing make-up. I stopped wearing high heels and, eventually, gave up skirts.

Originally posted by poet1b
You are the one who posted about women walking around naked. I am just quoting you.

Hey, I mentioned it ONCE, in response to your weird and nasty question about me beating my wife. I reiterate: I haven't been accusing you of demanding ANYTHING, least of all that you demand that women go around naked. You certainly aren't quoting me, you are MISQUOTING me, and putting words in my mouth. And now that you've been caught out on it, you reply back with "Hey, you're the one who started talking about naked women!"

[edit on 20-10-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


Assumption?

You mean insinuation.

Your point all along of bringing up high heels is to accuse western culture of forcing women to dress as objects of beauty. This last post just clinched the point.

The whole, "Do you still beat your wife" question is a cliche used when people are making insinuations about others, avoiding coming out and making an accusation, because they know they will be shot down for such a false accusation. The idea is to work their emotions so that they lash out, and reveal the accusation they are trying to make. It worked beautifully with you.

reply to post by poet1b

The idea is to work their emotions so that they lash out, and reveal the accusation they are trying to make. It worked beautifully with you.

no it didn't - it really wasn't that clever

it was rather clumsy actually

sorry to disappoint

reply to post by babloyi


I wear High Heels, no one forces me to wear them, it is down to the individual choice of what to wear and what not to wear.

That is the definition of being an independant woman, being treated equally to men, being able to make decisions for oneself without having to obtain approval from the husband or partner.


I would rather be indpendant, than having to walk two steps behind my partner. If any man demanded I walk two steps behind them, they would be politely told where to go.


[edit on 20-10-2009 by Laurauk]

I think this article is relevant to this thread, so I am postng it here with addy for people to watch!

Five women were paraded naked, beaten and forced to eat human excrement by villagers after being branded as witches in India's Jharkhand state.

Local police said the victims were Muslim widows who had been labelled as witches by a local cleric.

The incident occurred on Sunday in a remote village in Deoghar district.

Correspondents say the abuse of women who are branded as witches is common, but rare footage of the incident has caused outrage across India.

So one woman who supposignly has the holy spirit in her, accuses 5 others of being witches, as A result they are beaten up forced to eat feaces, I am shocked at this.

Supposingly Witches

reply to post by Laurauk


how is this relevant?

reply to post by poet1b

Muslim women find that subservience to men gives them power.

please explain

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


It is very relevant, look at the article, Over on word from a cleric, these 5 women wereaccused of being witches, I would like to know what proof they had before they beat these females, forced them to eat human feaces. And these are mulsim women being treated like this. It turns my stomache, and I am not a muslim.

Just shows there are those who take the Koran to the extreme.

You do know there are rules against one liners?

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by Laurauk

Why do you wear high-heels? You do realise that they're immensely bad for your feet, right?


I guess it is the same thing with cigarettes. Every single person in the universe probably knows now that they're bad for them, but they still do it. Just because. It is like a trap, or a habit you never got out of, and now never can.

I agree with you completely, of course, being treated equally, being independent, all that. Putting that aside, do you believe that it is right that headscarves or burqas should be banned?
Or another one: Do you believe it is right that high-heels should be banned?

As an aside, it is an interesting moral question, though: should people be (legally) allowed to bring harm to themselves? I mean, most communities already allow it in such things as cigarettes, but then prohibit such things as euthanasia or assisted suicide.


Poet1b has now completely given up on rational debate and discussion, and has resorted to snide jabs and vague claims to have exposed me. I'm not sure there is any continuable conversation in that direction.

EDITTED TO ADD: As for the article quoted, that is hardly restricted to muslims, and more of an Indian thing.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by Laurauk

And these are mulsim women being treated like this. It turns my stomache, and I am not a muslim...

meaning what - exactly?

you know what I wonder about?

how did the Manson Family happen?
en.wikipedia.org...

and what about Jim Jones?
en.wikipedia.org...

and lynching:
en.wikipedia.org...

and the Salem witch trials - and the Inquisition, and the Holocaust, Babi Yar, and Rwanda...

people who put their pets and children in microwaves

I wonder about so much - do you wonder about anything?

Just shows there are those who take the Koran to the extreme.

no kidding

what about this? Google Christian Extremist

sift through it

now - there are several ways of looking at this

one is to say: "you can't seriously expect us to look at a list of items regurgitated from a google search and take that to mean anything - that's not evidence of anything..."

it's evidence of evidence - how much of it is real - how much hearsay?

do you believe everything you read?

some of it is true - probably - or, do you want to try and explain how none of those items listed will ever pan out - there is no such thing as a Christian extremist

there's a lot wrong with this world

there's a lot wrong with people - period

you want to paint them all with the same brush?

or just the Muslims - they're all bad - because of a half-witted, possibly insane cleric in India -and the losers who follow him

start thinking - for yourself

You do know there are rules against one liners?

you going to rat me out?

:-)

that was positively snotty

and all I did was ask you how that was relative LOL!

P.S. Muslim needs to be capitalized



[edit on 10/20/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Laurauk

 

how is this relevant?

It's extremely relevant and pertinent dude.... don't you see?

This is a Muslim witch-hunt.... and that post just about sums it up..

reply to post by babloyi

Why do you wear high-heels? You do realise that they're immensely bad for your feet, right?

My choice as an independant woman or an individual to do so, it is all about choices, why should I as an individual be criticised for it, just the same as I can choose to wear flat shoes or walk about bare feet.

I guess it is the same thing with cigarettes. Every single person in the universe probably knows now that they're bad for them, but they still do it. Just because. It is like a trap, or a habit you never got out of, and now never can

Again it is about choices, you cannot force anything on anyone against thier own will. If someone chooses to smoke a cigarette, then that is thier choice without being criticised or forced to stop.

Putting that aside, do you believe that it is right that headscarves or burqas should be banned?

Or another one: Do you believe it is right that high-heels should be banned?

If a female decides to wear the headscarves or burquas without being forced to wear them, then fine that is thier choic to do so, they should not be demonised for it, or criticised. The same goes for any female whom chooses to wear high heels.

As an aside, it is an interesting moral question, though: should people be (legally) allowed to bring harm to themselves?

If they wish to do so, knowing the damage that it could cause, then who are we to turn around and say no you cannot do this or you cannot do that.. It is all about freedom of choice, take this away, then what are you left with?

Yes assisted suicide is illegal, but Doctors still carry out the practice in certain countries were it is not illegal. Just because and individual would rather end their lifes, rather than suffer the illness that has been inflicted upon them. They should not be condemmed for taking this decision.

No individual has a higher morale authority than the other,

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


If you cannot do anyhing better than resort to name calling, that just shows what respect you have for other members on ATS, whom have a different opinion, thanyour own. I for one, will not even entertain you from now on, unless you apologise.

If you want to act childish by calling me names then go ahead, It just shows how immature you really are!

Oh and ps, weither I choose to put a capital at the beginning of the word muslim, or not to put a capital at the beginning of the word muslim, that is my choice to do so. It has nothing what so ever to do with you .

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Laurauk]

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by Laurauk




Where is the name-calling?

I can't see it?

reply to post by Laurauk

I think I agree with everything you say, except perhaps the last part (in the sense that practically, in the real world, a person's life is not their own- they have an obligation to their parents, their spouse, their children etc). While Pearl Jam's "I Am Mine" is a powerful and poignant idea, I don't think it works like that in the real world .

But that is probably a topic for another thread.

reply to post by blupblup


Maybe to you it is not, But to me it is.

So seems we disagree.

I could care less either....

[edit on 20-10-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by Laurauk


oh, well - that was just petty

if you're not up for any of it - then don't come loaded for bear

If you cannot do anyhing better than resort to name calling, that just shows what respect you have for other members on ATS, whom have a different opinion, thanyour own. I for one, will not even entertain you from now on, unless you apologise.

from the school of poet1b

my reply was a direct, sincere and honest response to your post

if you can't handle a direct conversation - or confrontation - what are you doing here?

if you can't handle an opinion different from your own - then why bother - at all?

if you don't feel that you can come up with a decent reply to any one post - then just don't reply

it's that simple

If you want to act childish by calling me names then go ahead, It just shows how immature you really are!

really? really? are you sure? :-)

what name did I call you?

Oh and ps, weither I choose to put a capital at the beginning of the word muslim, or not to put a capital at the beginning of the word muslim, that is my choice to do so. It has nothing what so ever to do with you .

it's incorrect

funny - after your note on my one liner - I thought we were playing the Miss Manners game - again

:-)


[edit on 10/20/2009 by Spiramirabilis]