Chaos reigns at Detroit aid event

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by KSPigpen
I didn't see any mention about how much actual HELP is going to be handed out...

Hopefully none. It is programs like this that bankrupt governments and lead to higher taxes being put on the people. Everyone being able to live comfortably in their own home, have a well paying job, food on the table, and a healthy family is a nice idea, but it's not realistic. Some people are going to fall through the cracks. You can't save everyone.

Wow. While it is true that you can't save everyone, you cynically suggest that we not bother trying to save ANYONE. Seriously, you hope that "no one" was helped! You're quite the humanitarian. This forum is full of people complaining about a "new world order" wiping away those they feel are a waste of space on this planet. How are you better than them?

You need to reevaluate how you view your common man. People are more important than spare change under you couch cushions. If they have to spend money to save lives, spend it!! It's just money. I would rather see Detroit go bankrupt than see a pile of dead bodies in the street - especially children.

You neocons need to realize that capitalism doesn't mean having to cut a dozen men's throats to stay true to your principals. Helping people in need feed their kids is not "evil communism" - it's about being human.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by andrewh7]

Like a phoenix sometimes a city needs to burn down to be reborn more beautiful then before.

Now not suggesting that people in detroit need to burn down there city, I was speaking more metaphysically.

That said I think that the gov't of Detroit was naive to think only 5k people would apply shows they are out of touch. People in desperate straits who hear a rumour of a helping hand will believe it if it gives them hope when they had very little of it left.

That being said, I love how they are making the community farms. I think they should buldoze more neighbourhoods in all cities to put more green space in and allow people to grow there own food. It will help with health issues.

Having spent a good portion of my adult working life in and around metro-Detroit, I can add a few comments to the posts here.

First, you can't really blame the people that are trying to better their families. If they grew up in Detroit, there's a good chance that they were raised in a high crime, drug trafficking neighborhood, and went to substandard schools. You can't blame the poor for the circumstances in Detroit - All they are trying to do is survive day by day.

You can blame the politicians, both locally, regionally, and nationally, for spending gazillions of dollars rebuilding infrastructure in Iraq when Detroit has been crumbling to the ground for decades.

Detroit, and Michigan in general has had a brain drain for many years now. A lot of people have left the state to pursue careers elsewhere around the country, simply because the economy in Detroit metro is in tatters.

Historically, Detroit has always been an automotive town, and relied exclusively on the fortunes of the Big 3 automakers to sustain itself. There is no diversity in the economy whatsoever - It's all automotive.

What you don't see in these pictures are the literally hundreds, if not thousands of empty commercial real estate buildings that just 15 years ago had plenty of machine shops, widget shops, and mom and pop automotive concerns that catered to the Big 3. They are all gone now, and very few have survived. Most of the machinery has been shipped to India and China.

What people need to wake up and realize is that these pictures are coming to a city near you. We are already seeing California fall apart. Same thing in other parts of the country as well.

Even the middle class suburbs of Detroit are being hit hard. We have food pantries that can't keep up with the demand because so many people are out of work. 17% unemployment? Nope. Try closer to double that when you add all the people whose unemployment has run out, or have simply left the state altogether.

It's a mess, and a sad one at that. Detroit was once a thriving metropolis, and has a rich history. Some of the buildings in Detroit are world famous for their architecture and historical attributes. The city is in massive decay, and the treasury is bankrupt. Look for the State of Michigan or even the federal government to step in and take over the City of Detroit sometime soon. I don't think it's a situation that can ever be changed in our lifetime, at least I highly doubt it. Very, very sad.

If you ever get a chance to rent the movie, Roger and Me by Michael Moore, you will get a glimpse of what Detroit is going through. It ain't pretty. But puhleaaaze -- don't blame the poor. They are not the problem. Leadership, and corrupt politicians and incompetent auto exec's are the issue.

Originally posted by jaamaan


This story looks very grim.
When i was looking at the pictures it made me think of some third world country or russia 20 years ago.

The economic near future of the US does not look good so i do not think this is going to be a one time event.

Very sad i have to say.

Have a look at the pictures from this source and see what i mean.

www.freep.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

i live about 40 minutes north of detroit [I grew up in Flint...it's where they drive to dump thier victims' bodies, which go unnoticed for longer ]. This kind of crap is typical there and here. The people here are 80% uneducated crack-head scum, and the only reason they don't have jobs is because they've grown accustomed to casual drug use and alcoholism [bars are BOOMING!] , yet are too 'good' for some of the retail jobs around, or have been on welfare THIER ENTIRE LIVES!!
The rest of them were spoiled by GM and didn't fear dropping out of school in 7th grade, because they were still qualified to join the middle class [ever see a man who makes $80,000 a year that lives in a filthy 1 bedroom mobile home get evicted for not paying his lot rent, because he blew his whole check in under 24 hours...on pot and booze...i have].
It's a really disgusting place up close, and i honestly think 3rd world countries are alot better: They're poor because there is no opportunity to better yourself at all. our opportunities are disappearing slowly, but we still have some, and most of the lazy pukes down there won't get up and do anything to better themselves, because they would have to TRY.



[edit on 8-10-2009 by toltecnightmare]

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Sorry, but we are in this mess PARTIALLY because people can't keep track of their own money. That includes buying new toys before and after hand.

This comment is clearly out of place in a Detroit thread. Every year the local news has stories about people going without heat in their homes. No one in Detroit is buying ipods when they don't have money for food.

Just doing a bit of research on Detroit, and I have always known it to be a "bad" city, but not as bad as the articles I have read suggested.

Seems like a hell hole where opportunity truly is rare?

reply to post by exile1981

Now not suggesting that people in detroit need to burn down there city

Yea, please don't suggest that, they already do

Detroit just needs to be bulldozed over and forgotten about. A failed city left in it's ruins to wallow in self pity, bad politics, corruption, crime, and squalor.

Who is the Enemy in this fight that Texans will take up? If we all come to Texas, wouldn't the influx of people be viewed as the 'enemy'.

There are no clear sides drawn here. Just like the War on Drugs and the War on Terror. So for Texans to think within such limited a dimension is doing themselves a disservice.

reply to post by Mr.Hyde


Easy friend. Don't poke an artery.

The reason is because there will be a short influx of people. To which we will provide guns. Room and board is free, you get a tent and a gun.

Others will pry. Texas will become more powerful and wealthy ten times over night.

The other states will follow. The other ones in the motions anyways.

The influx stops..

Regional territorial of the United States of America Continues.

On and on!!!

Rock you to the break of dawn!

i live about 40 minutes north of detroit [I grew up in Flint...it's where they drive to dump thier victims' bodies, which go unnoticed for longer ]. This kind of crap is typical there and here. The people here are 80% uneducated crack-head scum, and the only reason they don't have jobs is because they've grown accustomed to casual drug use and alcoholism [bars are BOOMING!] , yet are too 'good' for some of the retail jobs around, or have been on welfare THIER ENTIRE LIVES!!
The rest of them were spoiled by GM and didn't fear dropping out of school in 7th grade, because they were still qualified to join the middle class [ever see a man who makes $80,000 a year that lives in a filthy 1 bedroom mobile home get evicted for not paying his lot rent, because he blew his whole check in under 24 hours...on pot and booze...i have].
It's a really disgusting place up close, and i honestly think 3rd world countries are alot better: They're poor because there is no opportunity to better yourself at all. our opportunities are disappearing slowly, but we still have some, and most of the lazy pukes down there won't get up and do anything to better themselves, because they would have to TRY.



[edit on 8-10-2009 by toltecnightmare]

I live a mere 10 minutes from Detroit and I have to say that I completely agree with everything you've said.

MOST of you have never even been near Detroit and you have no clue what these people are really like. They CHOOSE to be poor, they CHOOSE to rob, rape, sell drugs, pretend they're 'Ghetto Fabulous', leech off of the government, drop out of school, not have a job and only care about themselves. They consciously CHOOSE all of this. It wasn't what they were handed or how they were raised. Most of the children in Detroit are illigitimate and have fathers that CHOOSE not to pay child support and CHOOSE not to have a job and CHOOSE not to be in their childs lives. I can already see it: ' Oh but they were handed that!' PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! It's not some sorry unbroken cycle. They know what they need to do and would rather sit around all day and pretend they're hardasses and rappers. And it's not like these people are dumb, they're most certainly not, it's that they're lazy and useless. Hell, Detroit even has FREE COLLEGE to residents and THEY CHOOSE NOT TO GO. They consciously CHOOSE not to better their lives.

I had a conversation with the youth when Kwame Kilpatrick was voted in and re-elected. I talk about the youth because it was their record voting numbers that got him in office. It was the highest turnout ever in the history of Detroit for young voters. So in this conversation I of course asked why they would vote for someone who was so obviously corrupt and didn't give a damn about the people. You know what their response was? They wanted him in because and I quote, " He's gangsta! He's a pimp!". The man had a dead hooker at his house for crying out loud!

Detroit has been like this and even worse for decades. I know, I've actually lived right next to it MY ENTIRE LIFE! Most of you people know not of what you speak about Detroit. The only hope they have is a lobotomy.

reply to post by Agreed!


I love your attitude. You are pissed.

But don't gauge your reactions emotionally.

It's all storytelling you know.

But you always get what you need don't you? You are breathing oxygen like the rest of us aren't you?

reply to post by 12.21.12


I have to agree with Agreed! Detroit is a piss poor excuse for a city. It would have to improve in order to be a slum.

Originally posted by 12.21.12People in Detroit work for little wages and are taxed to death and now they have nothing to show for it, because the Federal Government sold them out.

But most of us saw it coming a very long time ago.

Wrong. Completely.

The people of Detroit have been making ridiculous unwarranted wages courtesy of the U.A.W., which is 100% undeniably Democratically aligned.

And just like 90% of all other poverty-ridden areas, they keep electing these Democrat Idealists who ignore reality and bury their constituents in the filth of the Union ties they have.

The American Auto manufacturers have whored themselves to the Unions for years, and now the employees are paying the price.

The Federal Gov't didn't sell these people out. The (Democrat)Union leaders did.
Check your facts.

reply to post by whatukno


Thats why you leave.

I see katrina victims everyday, only they are not victims cause they left.

reply to post by GroundZero


Your democratic government gave it to China..

Spread the wealth.

India wants it too.

Check your facts.

Edit to Add:

I am not sure what you are talking about. Detroit has long been a slum. Yet a marvel unto the earth. The people that worked for GM are straight up red blooded american. They took the time to make sure every vehicle is safe. Our economy has thrived for years because of Detroit.


Thats why, I welcome the ones that are not stupid enough to stay.

Nothing but cold weather and poverty.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by 12.21.12]

reply to post by andrewh7


Since the city of Detroit is obviously bankrupt, where do you think the money will come from? Hint: The feds.

Now which section of the Constitution authorizes such an expenditure?

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Agreed Cookie!!! You made some great points there and I, as a fellow Michigander, must applaud you.

Detroit has definitely been struggling for decades now, and i'll be the first to tell you that MOST of the people here are extremely resourceful, hard-working, and resilient...BUT things are getting worse for us, right along with the rest of the world. The only chance that I see Detroit having is to somehow become more self-sufficient.

The bulldozing/farming project is a step in the right direction, as those goods can be sold locally. The decline of the auto, steel, and manufacturing industries have made things awful rough though. Detroit needs something to fill the void that has been created.

This is where i'm HOPING that the recent initiatives to make Detroit a movie-making city( Detroit Film Office )will at least HELP to fill the void. Still, Michigan is going to need to come up with a NEW way to create jobs in order to remain ecomically stable in the future.

Great thread guys, it's sad to hear some of the negative opinions that have been espoused on the city of Detroit, but everybody is allowed to express themselves freely and I completely respect that right. Personally though, I love Detroit city. Detroit is MY city!

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist

Just doing a bit of research on Detroit, and I have always known it to be a "bad" city, but not as bad as the articles I have read suggested.

Seems like a hell hole where opportunity truly is rare?

Opportunities exist where there is money. The population of Detroit fled in the 1970s and they took the money with them. The only money that the city still has comes from commuters and there's a lot less than there used to be. People still come downtown for Casinos, restaurants around casinos, sporting events, bars around sporting events, and clubs.

Detroit could have been saved by a proper rapid transit system - a real subway or elevated train connecting the city with surrounding neighborhoods. Instead, the city blew the federal money on a "People mover" - a one-way Disneyland ride that has one big circular track. Only tourists use it. They delayed until the last minute to choose a project because the "motor city" didn't want a subway or train. It was a tragedy.

Once again - this was poor management. The people aren't responsible - they need a decent leader but no decent leader want to lead Detroit. It's unfortunate.

reply to post by 12.21.12


And people are. They are leaving when they can. I don't work in Detroit anymore. (Thank GOD) and my life has gotten better for it.

reply to post by andrewh7


Yea that people mover is a waste of space. It does however provide a safer alternative to get tourists around town than if they were to drive their cars or god forbid walk. You can get killed walking around Detroit.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

So many people on here acting like this is the end.

I don't see this as the end. I can see how this could very well be the beginning of the end. Who could deny that? If it is, I'm sure the end
will be quite a drawn out affair.
With a lot of it looking like the pictures you see here.
Positive thinking is good though.

Originally posted by brainwreck
reply to post by andrewh7

 

Since the city of Detroit is obviously bankrupt, where do you think the money will come from? Hint: The feds.

Now which section of the Constitution authorizes such an expenditure?

“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

Detroit is located in the United States. An economic disaster is no different from the Hurricane that hit New Orleans. Both can destroy a city and get Americans killed. If you believe that the money only be spent to help the country as a whole, you should agree that the destruction of a state's economy, inability to operate local and state government, no money to pay law enforcement on such a large scale is a huge problem....unless you really liked those mad max movies. Auto companies die....auto company suppliers die.....surrounding businesses dependant on auto companies die. Ever heard of Flint, MI? That on a statewide scale with ramifications all over the country! No one's car warranties are worth anything and no one makes parts to repair their cars!! Use your head!

A government is inherently socialist entity created by a group of people who choose to accept its burdens in exchange for its benefits. We accept welfare, medicare, and social security because the expenditure is preferable to watching people starve to death on the streets of an American city. The laws in every state in this country prevent a man from completely disinheriting his spouse, leaving her destitute. Why? Because the government doesn't want its citizens starving to death on the street.

Unfortunately, the popularity of the neocon has expanded recently and now people would sooner watch a child die than let 1 penny from their tax dollars go to feed him. Neocons will empty the treasury conquering the world but don't want to pay 1 penny for a poor man's chemotherapy. Neocons will destroy the US with domestic wiretapping, torture and indefinite imprisonment without trial, fundamental violations of the constitution and so-called American ideals, in order to "save it" from terrorism.

Honestly, I don't understand where you people are coming from? Based on the level of your xenophobia, one would think you were all Native Americans. The problem is that ACTUAL Native Americans aren't anywhere near as angry, hateful and divisive and they actually had all their land stolen and millions of them killed. Very strange. You go to Church on Sundays reading a book packed full of charity and kindness and yet you hate everyone who doesn't have any money.


[edit on 9-10-2009 by andrewh7]

Get used to these sights. They are going to be common soon enough. When you use government entitlements during good times is one thing, but in bad times, when there aren't any jobs also, you get the city of Detroit.


People need to understand, this is the new United States in our large metropolitan areas. Just wait till the real economic problems start. We are feeling the pangs of a major depression now, and it will only get worse. When those angry mobs in detroit, or any other city for that matter, get hungry, that's when the real fun starts. Then you'll have martial law, as trucks bring in food relief under soldier escort. Think it won't happen?? just look at the pictures that were posted with the lead post and tell me it won't, or can't happen. It will. Get used to it.


Welcome to the concrete jungle, all across America. Gangs fighting for control of their turf, not enough police to stop the violence, food riots every day, people scared to come out of their houses. A general breakdown of any kind of normal living conditions. it's coming, get used to it.

The real fun will come when the hungry start heading to the burbs to exploit these people. One problem with that though, many of these people have guns, and know how to use them. Could get interesting.