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Chaos reigns at Detroit aid event

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posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by andrewh7
 


Ah the general welfare clause.
If the people who tend to throw that little gem around as an authorization for socialistic income redistribution only knew what its intended purpose really was.

Lets refer to the words of the founding fathers:

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Using tax funds to subsidize an irresponsible LOCAL government is unconstitutional.

Detroit is a Michigan problem, not a United States problem. If Michigan cant afford to rescue Detroit, then it must rightly be allowed to perish.

I know that clashes with your touchy feely BS emotion based comments, but there is a thing called reality. check it out sometime.

As for the rest of your rant, its completely pointless, illogical, and just plain wrong.




posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 03:19 AM
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So...maybe this was answered in one of the other 5 pages...but was this handout only for minorities?

The only white guy I see in these photos is the guy handing them out.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by midnightbrigade
 


No, it wasn't that is just the population of Detroit. There is a large black population in Detroit. I am sure if a white person would have shown up, they might have gotten a handout as well, (then summarily called a racist and possibly shot)



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by brainwreck


Ah the general welfare clause.
If the people who tend to throw that little gem around as an authorization for socialistic income redistribution only knew what its intended purpose really was.

Lets refer to the words of the founding fathers:

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson, 1798

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Using tax funds to subsidize an irresponsible LOCAL government is unconstitutional.




Excellent point, brain.



I know that clashes with your touchy feely BS emotion based comments, but there is a thing called reality. check it out sometime.

As for the rest of your rant, its completely pointless, illogical, and just plain wrong.


How is it wrong or touchy feely? Andrew was trying to draw some of the finer points of hypocrisy around the question of trillions spent on a lie of a war - you know - the WMD whimsy - now there's some flatulent BS.. hypocrisy is not a touchy feely proposition but a real world activity that has consequences - every state in this union has been feeding off the federal tit ever since the invention of the federal reserve giving the foxes control of our currency and the hen house - its not new - the welfare state was just a hideous devisive after thought of the dems - give the family money but make sure the father doesn't live in the home - oh thats rich - good way to destroy a community and its children as well as its economic base - everybody on the tit - just a hop skip and a jump to crack, heroin, alchohol and crime - and yes that was a democrat idea I'm sorry to say...evil to the core.

but since our war effort and military takes the lions share of our tax money and spends it [ineffciently I might add] on foriegn wars fighting the oh so "illusive" al queda and protecting the poppy fields of Afghanistan [oops I mean fighting the Taliban
] - there is little left to bolster the economy in extreme situations - though of course plenty to bail out institutions again with our taxes, money that STILL has next to zero oversight...so f*** Detroit - and the rest of the country while we're at it cause we're doing such good work with the banks, the military, shipping all our jobs to our friends in Asia - business is booming ......somewhere...
And if all that is constitutional I'll buy the tin-man a heart myself


[edit on 9-10-2009 by realshanti]

[edit on 9-10-2009 by realshanti]

[edit on 9-10-2009 by realshanti]



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


I'm sorry...but I don't see a single white person in that crowd looking for a free handout.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by mirager
reply to post by KSPigpen
 


I'm sorry...but I don't see a single white person in that crowd looking for a free handout.


What does that tell you about who is the poorest segment of society in that neighbourhood? Or are you trying to imply that whites are beneath using or needing a social safety net...one that everybody pays into.?

Yes, I am calling you out on your observation.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by GroundZero
The people of Detroit have been making ridiculous unwarranted wages courtesy of the U.A.W., which is 100% undeniably Democratically aligned.

And just like 90% of all other poverty-ridden areas, they keep electing these Democrat Idealists who ignore reality and bury their constituents in the filth of the Union ties they have.

The American Auto manufacturers have whored themselves to the Unions for years, and now the employees are paying the price.

The Federal Gov't didn't sell these people out. The (Democrat)Union leaders did.
Check your facts.


Unions...those people who brought you the weekend. And raised wages and working conditions for everybody else.

Why not shake down the corporations that are based off-shore to dodge taxes? How about companies that moved their manufacturing off-shore so that they could dodge paying American living wages to American comsumers? So they'd have to buy Chinese crap from Walmart?

And a union contract is negotiated between workers and employers...it's not like they set their own wages. If it wasn't for unions, Detroit wouldn't have had the good years. Why not ask the (former) big 3 and the government why North America can't import their cars to Korea and Japan?

Union bashing is not the answer here. The vanquishing of capitalism by globalism is the cause of your grief. Hell, without unions there'd be no 40 hour week, benefits...the list goes on. And I've never seen a workforce that unionized, that didn't need to. So let's find another boogieman, shall we?



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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I'm not sure how anyone can defend Detroit. It's an absolute mess and is teetering on 3rd World status. From the looks of it, maybe it's already there.

It's beyond corrupt, it's people are taught the gospel of racism and how to work the system for entitlements. This mentality runs from the very top of leadership down to the very poor. You see the racism and entitlist behavior on Detroits consul board, being preached in churches, and through community organizing groups. It's been entrenched in this community for 3 or 4 generations now to hate whitey and the hatred is seeded so deep I'm not sure Detroit metro will ever recover.

As far as all these poor people in these pictures. I'm sure some are poor and do need help but far to many are just there working the system over. It's all to common to see "poor" Detroiters living in the "ghetto" outside their homes in $500 outfits, jewelery to match and caddys with $5K rims on it parked on the driveway. Or coming to the suburb malls and buying everything in site only to head back to their "ghettos" to bitch about whitey holding them down and not being able to escape those ghettos. It's all about prioritizing what one wants in life and how to plan for the future. Those in the community with the money(which is plenty) should be reinvesting in their communities by opening businesses and the such. Not defaulting on bills(because you know the surrounding areas will foot the bills) then buying 65" plasmas the next day.

There's just no leadership or role models in these communities and there's way too much sense of entitlement. The ghetto lifestyle and the run down communities are no ones fault except for the leadership that is elected and for those living in them. Most of those houses in Detroit are/use to be absolutely beautiful at the core. They've just been left to rot away because of laziness and waiting on the State to take care of their yards and issues.

The issues of Detroit are so vast really it can't be summed up in single post but IMO this city is lost. Personally I'm hoping that in Spring I can move a bit north because when TSHF I don't want to be anywhere near that crap hole.












[edit on 9-10-2009 by Tyr Sog]



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Meh...they're just bitter that the Stanley Cup wasn't handed to them on a silver platter.

This is terrible, though in all seriousness. If we continue along this path (and we will) we're going to see more and more of this violence and disarray in our urban areas. Everyone is desperate for a handout, moreso than before, and it's the fault of the banks and bankers. I read somewhere yesterday the quote "If you had a pulse, we gave you a loan." And this is the result. Even if these people aren't guilty of attempting to buy something they couldn't afford, the situation is the direct result of those few who are guilty. Sad stuff.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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Rush plays clips from a local radio station interviewing some of these people.



[edit on 9-10-2009 by Wimbly]



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


One that everyone pays into?

How so?



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I don't even know where to begin.
Detroit is/was unique to other major metropolitan cities.
After World War Two there was a great influx from the south (and probably other places) to find jobs in the booming auto industry.
Blacks and whites took advantage of the jobs being offered with union wages.

The suburbs expanded further and further from the core City as more came and people used their incomes to buy homes.

Life was good.

Or, maybe not so good.
The 1967 riots changed the city immensely. Look it up, not really needed to go into here.
Coleman Young becomes mayor a few years after this, voted in by both black and white.
Many whites left Detroit after his election. He was plains speaking and many took him at his word and went north of Eight Mile.

The city becomes poorer and poorer.
The population continues to shrink as more people, white and black, leave for greener pastures.

Detroit is now about 80% black. There is a large Mexican and Arabic community. Few whites or other groups.

The Downtown area changes. Fewer and fewer businesses, now the buildings are about 80% vacant. Some buildings totally.

School enrollments drop.
Students fail to see the value in a diploma.

Terrible rapid transit system, some would say nonexistent.
And if you don't have a car, as many poor do not, it's hard to get to that job outside Detroit.
There's few employment opportunities within the City.
Some would thank the Big Three for this failed transit system: they really wanted all of us in cars and trucks not buses and subways.

Unemployment is about 30% within the City. Probably higher, as many no longer look.

You cannot blame any one thing for the condition of Detroit, but here's a few, in no particular order:
The Big Three
Unions
Coleman Young
White flight
Lack of respect
Lack of responsibility
Lack of education
Greed
Hate
Lansing, MI

~~~~
~~~
~~
Oh, and neither Detroit nor Lansing is footing the bill for this. We are, the taxpayers of the US.
This is part of the wondrous Stimulus Package.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

www.detnews.com...
www.detnews.com...


The mad rush Wednesday caused pandemonium as residents jockeyed for 5,000 applications, hoping to get a slice of the $15.2 million that will be administered to Detroit residents through the federal Homeless Prevention and Rapid Re-Housing Program.

The scene at Cobo prompted city staff to distribute thousands of additional applications photocopied on yellow paper.

"We are going to accept and review every application we distributed," said Edward Cardenas, spokesman for Mayor Dave Bing.

An unfounded rumor that the city was handing out cash accounted for much of the crowd, said Sylvia Crawford, spokeswoman for the Detroit Planning and Development Department.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by brainwreck
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


One that everyone pays into?

How so?


Taxes.
Second line.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
No offense to you, but unless you have lived there or experienced what its like, you dont have a fair opinion about it.


I do believe I said this on the first page:

"I lived up there for 12 years and only recently moved here to Houston"

So yeah I have lived there and have experienced what it's like and do have a fair opinion about it.


Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
But to say people deserve to be poor and they deserve all the bad things that are happening to them, is ignorant. Nobody deserves that.


When they vote for their city officials because they are black and do not remove them when they need to be removed, yes they do deserve it. Alot of them continued to support Kwame Kilpatrick despite his crimes.

The people of Detroit are not very bright at all.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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Don't forget the Detroit riots in the 60's. Ever since, the city has never been the same.

Thugs shooting pedestrians and GM workers from the top corners of parking garages near the Renaissance Center. Mass exodus along racial lines out of the city - both residential and commercial.

I just hope the rest of our American cities never turn into what Detroit has become. I really don't blame the people - There are forces much larger at work than the average Joe here. Political and market forces much larger than the average workaday Joe.

Funny enough, if you take a waltz over to Grosse Pointe north of the city, or head on over to Windsor, Canada, you won't believe the stark contrast between Detroit and these cities.



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7
Have you even been to Detroit ever? Recently?


I guess I have to repeat this - again - because people cannot read.

I said this on the first page:

"I lived up there for 12 years and only recently moved here to Houston"

Now if you had read that, your question would have been answered. Yes I have been to Detroit, and yes it was recently. Have I won your seal of approval yet?


Originally posted by andrewh7
The whole downtown area has been renovated.


Really? The whole downtown area? When did that happen?


Originally posted by andrewh7
Two new sports stadiums and surrounding areas have been completely rebuilt.


I'm well aware of the stadiums. Clearly Detroit's priorities are in order when building stadiums is more important than cleaning up the rest of the city.


Originally posted by andrewh7
The government of the area has been corrupt and incompetent, but you seriously crossed the line when you stated that the people suffering down there deserve it.


So the people - who vote for and pay the salary of these elected officials - are not responsible for holding them accountable? Doesn't sound like a democracy to me.


Originally posted by andrewh7
Moreover, we have jerks from Texas writing in to give their two cents when they only know Detroit from watching Beverly Hills Cop.


Considering I lived there and have never watched Beverly Hills Cop I'll just go ahead and assume this wasn't directed at me.


Originally posted by andrewh7
In case you didn't notice, there is a serious economic recession all over the country and the auto companies were hit particularly hard.


Right, blame it on the auto companies, even though Detroit's economy began it's decline 30 years before the rest of the country's.

The rest of the country is in a recession, but most places are not nearly as bad as Detroit.

Since you asked me if I have ever been to Detroit, I'll ask you a similar question: Have you ever been anywhere outside of Detroit? To a real city, perhaps?


Originally posted by andrewh7
If you don't know anything about Detroit besides racist stereotypes leading you to believe that the people living there are all criminals and deserve anything that happens to them, you should stay out of the debate.


Yes, I'm racist. Real original counter argument. I guess that is the default response when people cannot intelligently refute what has been said.


Originally posted by andrewh7
Wow. While it is true that you can't save everyone, you cynically suggest that we not bother trying to save ANYONE.


Why put a heavy burden on the rest of us who actually work to pay for these people to sit on their ass and collect handouts? Is this the supposed "land of opportunity" or not? It's not impossible to get an education or a job. These people simply do not want to put in the effort.


Originally posted by andrewh7
How are you better than them?


I never claimed I was.


Originally posted by andrewh7
I would rather see Detroit go bankrupt than see a pile of dead bodies in the street - especially children.


You're going to see a pile of dead bodies in the street BECAUSE Detroit is bankrupt. When the government can no longer pay for police and firefighters, and all the jobs have left the area, who will control the riots for food?


Originally posted by andrewh7
You neocons


Yeah, I'm a neocon. And a racist, apparently. I love how people put an ideological label that they dislike on people they don't agree with.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi
 


So your telling me you lived inside of Detroit.? Im not talking about the subburbs im talking about Detroit iteself. Experiencing the struggle itself.

And you cant make that statement as a fact unless you interviewed all the people of Detroit and asked them why they chose the person they chose. You can THINK thats why they chose them, but you cannot know for sure.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi
 


So your telling me you lived inside of Detroit.? Im not talking about the subburbs im talking about Detroit iteself. Experiencing the struggle itself.


With your logic, no one should comment about anything that happens in the world.

We don't live in Iraq so we should not talk about the war. We do not live in Israel or Palestine so we should not discuss what is going on. We do not live in North Korea so we should not criticize their government. We do not live in China, and we did not live in the Soviet Union, so why question communism? We did not live in Nazi Germany, so perhaps Hitler was right about the Jews?

Surely you can see how your 'unless you've lived it you can't talk' argument holds no weight.

The suburbs are not immune to the deep recession Michigan is in. The people of Detroit are not the only ones struggling. Sure, the people of Bloomfield Hills are much better off than the people of Detroit, but many in Southeast Michigan are struggling in their own way.

You do not have to live the struggle of the people of Detroit in order to experience it. All you have to do is take a look at Detroit and you know what shape it is in. The shape it is in is directly attributed to the city officials, which, in a democracy, must be dealt with by the people if they do not live up to their responsibilities.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 04:19 AM
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Update: Homelessness Prevention Applications




Applications for Detroit's Homelessness Prevention and Rapid Re-housing Program are due Wednesday, October 14, 2009.

They must be postmarked on or before Wednesday, Oct. 14, 2009.

Detroit residents may also submit their applications in person from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Wednesday at the City of Detroit, Planning and Development Department, located at 65 Cadillac Square where boxes will be set up to deposit applications. Please be advised of road closures around 65 Cadillac Sq. between the Court House and Cadillac Sq. Building.

Detroit Police precincts and district stations have been designated as drop-off locations for residents wanting to submit their applications.


So people slammed in to pick up the applications, but there are still a lot out there that haven't been dropped off.



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