Lawyer sues to end Dallas group's 'threat' prayers

Lawyer sues to end Dallas group's 'threat' prayers

www.dallasnews.com

A former military lawyer who served in the Reagan White House and worked for Ross Perot is suing a Dallas-based religious organization in a case that could test the limits of free speech and prayer.

he wants Gordon Klingenschmitt, a former U.S. Navy chaplain, to "stop asking Jesus to plunder my fields ... seize my assets, kill me and my family then wipe away our descendants for 10 generations."

The lawsuit says the Chaplaincy is not a religious organization but "a front for anti-governme

(visit the link for the full news article)

"You cannot use your position of military authority to force the Afghans, Iraqis or people underneath you in the military to accept your specific religion," he said. "If the Jews were doing it or the mainstream Protestants or Catholics or Buddhists or Hindus, we'd be in their face."

I am not against Chaplaincies, however I do think it's position requires a certain amount of regulation.

Anyhow, this guy is clearly a nut
extremists of any religion gives me the beegeezies(did I spell that right?) and fanaticism is a disease of the mind.

The problem is that this Gordon character is saying that he didn't push any threats of violence, he just recited scriptures.
If this is true then, that's the problem with abrahamic religions, they are all too violent.

www.dallasnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

S&F! I'd be interested to find out who's funding these fundies. Scary...

reply to post by ModernAcademia




Thought police are wanting to regulate prayers now?



I don't care how bizarre someone's prayers are, or even their internal thoughts are, you can't even try to legally control them.

And just for laughs, just how do you control someone's prayers if they are silent and don't even move their lips?



Just when you thought you've already heard the dumbest thing ever ...

he wants Gordon Klingenschmitt, a former U.S. Navy chaplain, to "stop asking Jesus to plunder my fields ... seize my assets, kill me and my family then wipe away our descendants for 10 generations."

Well he can't say that these people are threatening him. They're asking Jesus to do it. So as long as no one can prove Jesus is real then what is this guy worried about? I really don't see how any court could rule on this.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Thought police are wanting to regulate prayers now?

I don't care how bizarre someone's prayers are, or even their internal thoughts are, you can't even try to legally control them.

Weinstein, 54, said his family has received death threats, had a swastika emblazoned on their home in New Mexico, animal carcasses left on their doorstep and feces thrown at the house.

It would seem that this goes deeper than just prayers.

While I would certainly say people should have the right to pray for whatever they wish, even in the context of some loony religion, in this instance it seems more like an organized hate group under the guise of religion.

And while even hate groups should have their freedoms protected (as disgusting as they may be), this is an organized effort against a single man, that is resulting in many illegal things being done to him. It should be noted that these things are being done almost entirely because he is Jewish, and because he has fought for secularism in the military.

I don't think this is a case of thought police, I think this is a case harassment. If the members of this "church" weren't trespassing and vandalizing this man's property, I would say this whole thing was ridiculous. However, it seems the guy has a solid case in this instance.

reply to post by centurion1211


Took the words right outta my mouth:

"Just when you've though to have heard the dumbest thing ever..."...

reply to post by dbates


I think he`s a little more worried that someone will take it upon themselves to do the dirty work, and not Jesus. These days, you just never know what may happen.

Gordon Klingenschmitt is a certifiable nut.

Does he want Mikey Weinstein to die? "I pray the Psalm that his days are few," he replied.

Source: www.dallasnews.com...

That is not a Christian attitude. I hereby publicly denounce this man's actions.

I also hope Mr. Weinstein fails in his lawsuit. All we need now is a rash of lawsuits on people for praying...

TheRedneck

it is not a crime to pray to your god to kill a man and his family to the tenth generation... It is, however, quite tacky and in poor form. Certainly not someone I would want as a brother in faith (if I was religious).Being that bad taste cannot criminalized, I suggest he avoids the nutters.

However, if they are on his property or inciting violence against the man and his family, they need to be dealt with.

So ummmm...... Why do people always forget that Jesus was Jewish?........ What was it that they called him back then? Oh YES! The king of the Jews......

I don't condone praying for the demise of another. It is a completely unchristian thing to do. People always forget that the Christian's primary job is to love and accept everyone no matter who they are, what they believe, or what they do. Their job is to spread love. Praying for someone's and their family's demise is completely opposite of what it means to actually be a christian. Then again not many Christians live by this credo. If they did, there would probably be less people complaining about them.

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Thought police are wanting to regulate prayers now?

I don't care how bizarre someone's prayers are, or even their internal thoughts are, you can't even try to legally control them.

And just for laughs, just how do you control someone's prayers if they are silent and don't even move their lips?

Just when you thought you've already heard the dumbest thing ever ...

How is this different than:

Go to Hell!

or

Eat BLEEP and die!

The best part is further down where Weinstein challenged Klingenschmidt to a boxing match.

I wish I could take this more seriously but it was a bit funny in a Mighty Boosh kinda way.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Gordon Klingenschmitt is a certifiable nut.

Does he want Mikey Weinstein to die? "I pray the Psalm that his days are few," he replied.

Source: www.dallasnews.com...

That is not a Christian attitude. I hereby publicly denounce this man's actions.

I also hope Mr. Weinstein fails in his lawsuit. All we need now is a rash of lawsuits on people for praying...

TheRedneck

no not praying, for taking action on those prayers. i don't know why this is so hard to understand. if you pray for my death...no big deal...if your buddy calls me up and threatens me with death after listening to your prayer...jail time buddy...f your religous freedom

It would be nice to see some sort of regulation on what is being "preached" at these extremist churches (of all religions). Sure there is freedom of religion and freedom of speech....and that should be protected. However, maybe these extremists should lose their federal label as a religious institute and pay taxes...there is just no place for rubbish like this.

What's worse than a preacher perpetuating hate? A congregation of sheep that listen to sermons, absorb the preacher's interpretation of the bible and then go out and spread the hate via actions and words.

There must be some accountability in this country. We need to quit letting hateful fear-mongers hide behind the guise of the first amendment.

Just my 2-cents

EDIT: If it is illegal to practice what is preached, then should the preaching not also be illegal?

[edit on 5-10-2009 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by DaMod
People always forget that the Christian's primary job is to love and accept everyone no matter who they are, what they believe, or what they do. Their job is to spread love. Praying for someone's and their family's demise is completely opposite of what it means to actually be a christian.

Really?
"kill the babylonians and plummage babylon" doesn't sound like your description much eh?

reply to post by jimmyx
I understand your point. The reports of windows broken and swastikas emphasize it.

My point however is that this is being linked to praying. With the present societal attitude of over=compensation for perceived wrongs, it could easily turn into a rash of lawsuits simply against praying.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by DaMod
So ummmm...... Why do people always forget that Jesus was Jewish?........ What was it that they called him back then? Oh YES! The king of the Jews......

I don't condone praying for the demise of another. It is a completely unchristian thing to do. People always forget that the Christian's primary job is to love and accept everyone no matter who they are, what they believe, or what they do. Their job is to spread love. Praying for someone's and their family's demise is completely opposite of what it means to actually be a christian. Then again not many Christians live by this credo. If they did, there would probably be less people complaining about them.

This is all true. I completely agree.

Ironically, considering that this is directed at a Jew, the passages that Evangelicals are most in love with are "Jewish" (Hebrew scripture) and the only country aside from the US that they support is Israel. I turned on Janey Parcels (sp) one day and the way she talked about Netanyahu was almost fangirl-esque.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Wow what a mess. I don't even know what to say or think.

On one hand, I am very disappointed with him as a Christian myself. That is not how Jesus taught us to pray. At all. I don't know the whole story but if it is as bad as the lawsuit claims, then this man is an embarrassment to us who would never have such a desire on our hearts.

On the other hand, I disagree with laws concerning the content of prayers. IMO I believe he is wrong but law suits could set a scary precedent.

On one hand, the fact acts of violence are occurring due to the prayers sends off alarm bells that something should be done. On the other hand, it goes back to personal responsibility and he should not be held responsible for what others do.

Then the article also mentions none of this is substantiated and the chaplain's prayers are online and in audio for all to see (and that the allegations are untrue). But in another reference it looks like the chaplain is taking the OT prayers from Psalms and applying it to another? Is the Jewish man who is filing the suit offended by the passages in his Holy Text as well or that they are being aimed at him?

What a mess.

[edit on 10/5/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by ModernAcademia


These are my feelings, as well. However, I wonder if Weinstein oughtn't try and contact the gentleman directly over a beer. I'm serious about this. So many times people use mouthpieces or detached media when they ought to go to the individual themselves. Rarely does one accomplish what they seek when using the courts. Hearts have to be changed, and that just doesn't happen through indirect contact.

Using the Psalms on a Jew is childish.
Instigating a boxing match is Michael Lohan-ish.

Both of them are acting ridiculous in my opinion.

As for the people leaving dead animals and Swastikas--they may or may not be the evangelical followers, but good chances that they are...it isn't Christian, it isn't Jewish, it is frat-boyish and stupid. However, that is/those are the crime(s) that ought to be in court, not the reciting of a Psalm.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by A Fortiori]

The problem is that these groups ignore a good portion of the Bible... Timothy speaks towards being the best slave to your master as possible because it is through this that they'll leave you alone to pray as you wish. It's only when religion becomes a focus of rebellion that it is attacked. In this case, they're bringing it upon themselves. If they kept quiet and gave in to the system, they wouldn't be in this mess. This isn't to say they would have it easy, just that their particular religious expressions wouldn't be called into question as they are now.

As for Abrahamic traditions being prone to violence, it is true. However, the New Covenant (i.e. Jesus / New Testament) was to replace the previously held notions of "an eye for an eye" with limited commandments surrounding "love your neighbor". These radical church groups that preach violence of any form, God given or not, are not following the New Covenant but instead are stuck in the historical past.