Israel's Hidden Nuclear Weapons Factory / Video

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by Bugman82

 

reply to post by finemanm

 

Let me get this right, Israel is just an innocent pawn that just wants to be left alone? Get a life friend, we all know how it works. Israel declares an area as a militarized zone Palestinians are removed from the area via force if required, settlers move in and demolish everything, and beat the Palestinian inhabitants if they do not move on.

Post ONE video that shows this conduct and I will eat my words. I love how Palestinians and their supporters throw out ridiculous allegations without a shred of evidence to back them up.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Um, I think you're rather confused and lacked comprehension of my previous post. My post was strongly against supporting either side. It is rather clearly stated numerous times.

Also, your term "freedom fighter" is rather confusing. They fight for freedom by specifically targeting Israeli civilians, using their own civilians and civilian structures as shields against retaliation, and through the use of an extreme ideology that calls to fight against infadels (those that don't support Islam)?

Like my post above explains supporting the Palestinians and supporting Israel supports and aids extreme ideologies. Those that give support to Palestinians help them further their extremist acts and ideologies. Those that give support to Israel help them further their imperialistic pursuits and humanitarian atrocities.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Bugman82]

reply to post by finemanm


Sure here are some.









This is from Hebron, which was all Arab just a short time ago.


Just look anywhere. YouTube has many thousands. Many Palestinian have a camera these days, and the whole affair is being documented.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Bugman82



If we do not stand up for the Palestenian and expose Israel for what it is. Who will? Who will stand for us if the same took place? I just call it like I see it.

I see an Israel that has displaced many millions, and that grows almost daily by acquiring more and more lands currently held by the Palestinian. I see Jewish children taught that a state of Palestine never existed, and King David’s kingdom is theirs by manifest destiny. The same happened here in America against the Native American.

You cannot fight an Army with stones! A person, any person who has lost a child or loved one is inclined to take revenge. It is not by terroristic roots that these attacks against Israel take place. It is a two sided affair I never said it wasn’t. I do see the Israeli conundrum, give them a state and face all out war. The expansion must stop however, and Israeli security forces should be barred from entry into Palestinian areas.





[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

State of Palestine? When did that happen?
How about a timeline of who has controlled the area?

3000 BCE- Canaanite
1250 BCE Traditional Kingdom of Isreal
720 BCE- Assyrian
530 BCE- Persian
330 BCE- Macedonian
140 BCE- Hasmonian Kingdom of Isreal
63 BCE- Roman
330 CE- Byzantine (Roman)
630 CE Arab Caliph
660 CE Umayyad (Arab/Muslim)
750 CE Abbasid (Arab/Muslim)
970 CE Fatimid (Arab/Muslim)
1100 CE Kingdom of Jerusalem (Crusader/Christian)
1270 CE Mamluk (Arab/Muslim)
1516 CE Ottoman (Turkic/Muslim)
1830 CE Egyptian (Arab/Muslim)
1840 CE Ottoman
1917 CE British
1948 CE State of Isreal

List may be a bit long, but that is pretty much a continous list for the last 5000 yrs. The "State of Palestine" was declared to be in existance in 1988 in Algeria.
For as long as mankind has scratched lines on parchment whoever can control a patch of dirt is the owner. Isreal has held and defended its partch of dirt for 50 years. Palestine has laid claim to it for 20, but only holds what is given to them. Some say they stole it, well anyone they "stole" it from would have stolen it from the previous state/empire/nation. It's theirs. You may not like it, you may not agree but it's pretty much a fact.

But don't let the facts sway you from pursuing your anti-Isreali rant.

Originally posted by Dnevnoi
I have no problem with Israel having nuclear weapons since they know when to stop. Israel knows that when they make an operation and carry it out, that people will react negatively or someone will attack.

Iran is dangerous because the theocracy has no sense of what a limit is. They are willing to keep pushing and making statements without thinking of consequences further down the line. A Shahab-3 with a nuke is just what the Middle East, and the world doesn't need. Because a country with inflammatory remarks spewing forth from a puppet president would cause an angry retort and threat of war.

Iraq had one centrifuge to enrich Uranium to create nuclear weapons. No power stations.

Iran has thousands of centrifuges and two power stations. Seems like they're enriching Uranium for more than just power. You don't need 4000 or 8000 centrifuges to provide fuel for a few power stations. However you would for a nuclear arsenal.

It's difficult to take this seriously when you consider Israel has existed as a state since 1948 when it was invented by the west.

Wheras Iran formerly known as Persia has been around for a lot longer.

Wiki tells us

Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 7000 BC

This takes a few minutes to read:

Israel's WMD's

[edit on 1-10-2009 by bigyin]

Hey, I haven't seen this much anti-Israel sentiment before on ATS, can I have the Zyklon-B cotton candy concession? I reckon I'll clean up and retire!

Hey, the Holocaust never happened, Iran's own Ahmadinnerbiscuit said so, and we can trust him can't we?

[do I really need a '/sarc off' tag here?]

Tell you what folks, I feel a whole lot more secure knowing that Israel has nuclear weapons, being that they are the ONLY established and stable democracy in the region (Iraq is too new at this point), compared to all her neighbors who believe in that 'Religion of Peace' and will kill you if you disagree with them.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


You said:

Israel declares an area as a militarized zone Palestinians are removed from the area via force if required, settlers move in and demolish everything, and beat the Palestinian inhabitants if they do not move on.

I asked you to post ONE video of Israel declaring an area as a militarized zone, removing palestinians by force and demolishing everthing.

You reply with a video of a couple of Israeli settlers attempting to farm unused land being video taped by activists. The calmer settler invites the activist to his home to discuss the matter so that he can prove he has a right to do what he is doing, and the activist refuses.

Video two: Shows a group of masked men committing a crime against a woman, plain and simple. If they are settlers, I am sure they are bad apples amungst decent people. Just like most palestinians are decent people who are not members of a terrorist organsiation. The funny thing is that the video was shot with video cameras provided by an ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP.

Video three, a dispute between Israeli settlers and palestinians. Everyone is speaking a language I don't understand so I don't even know what the dispute is about.

Video Four: Strait up propaganda.

Video five, I got bored since you did not live up to your end of the agreement and didn't watch it.

So, I repeat, post ONE video of Israel declaring an area as a militarized zone, removing palestinians by force and demolishing everthing.

Israel and the Jewish people never [in their history] tried to submit their religion on other people. Israel doesnt sponsor terrorist groups to blow up innocent people while going with the bus[Israel], going to a club[Bali], going with the metro[Metro], to work or to buy a ticket for broadway[NY]..
They've been threatened since the beginning in Judea, now with their home country and after the holocaust they're been threatened with extinction.
And you people are surprised they weapon themselves? to at least deter the enemies they're surrounded with? They should work on a solution of 2 states and retreat from parts of the west bank, but have done that before [Sinai for example], i dont see the Arabs states do that..
They have nuclear weapons and ever since '48, being attacked over and over and over again they didnt used them. These people have a right to live although on a very tiny space of land, its all they want, in peace.
You people go on and burn these people to the ground with these threads, meanwhile the Persians are laughing at you and spitting on and burning your flags hoping one day a Shahab 4 or 5 tipped with a nuclear warhead will hit a west coast city, to hit the great satan and die a martyr..

Originally posted by barrelmaker
State of Palestine? When did that happen?
How about a timeline of who has controlled the area?

3000 BCE- Canaanite
1250 BCE Traditional Kingdom of Isreal
720 BCE- Assyrian
530 BCE- Persian
330 BCE- Macedonian
140 BCE- Hasmonian Kingdom of Isreal
63 BCE- Roman
330 CE- Byzantine (Roman)
630 CE Arab Caliph
660 CE Umayyad (Arab/Muslim)
750 CE Abbasid (Arab/Muslim)
970 CE Fatimid (Arab/Muslim)
1100 CE Kingdom of Jerusalem (Crusader/Christian)
1270 CE Mamluk (Arab/Muslim)
1516 CE Ottoman (Turkic/Muslim)
1830 CE Egyptian (Arab/Muslim)
1840 CE Ottoman
1917 CE British
1948 CE State of Isreal

List may be a bit long, but that is pretty much a continous list for the last 5000 yrs. The "State of Palestine" was declared to be in existance in 1988 in Algeria.
For as long as mankind has scratched lines on parchment whoever can control a patch of dirt is the owner. Isreal has held and defended its partch of dirt for 50 years. Palestine has laid claim to it for 20, but only holds what is given to them. Some say they stole it, well anyone they "stole" it from would have stolen it from the previous state/empire/nation. It's theirs. You may not like it, you may not agree but it's pretty much a fact.

But don't let the facts sway you from pursuing your anti-Isreali rant.

Mandate of Palestine. 1920-1948
en.wikipedia.org...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3134db2b6a81.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67c4814a14ca.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0742ce85e6d9.png[/atsimg]
You are misinformed friend!


[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


What you are ignoring me because you got nothing to come back at me with?

Second line

reply to post by finemanm



Sure here are some. International Law considers all settlements illegal for a good reason friend.













[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Okay, you are getting closer, but still no cigar.

Video one: Building that have been empty since 1948 being sold to people who are renovating them and making them livable. Not quite using force to push Palestinians off their land, but you get an A for effort. By the way, the Palestinians who abandoned these buildings will never get them back. Israel will never agree to the "right of return." Why should they, these people fled when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked rather than picking up arms and joining the new Israelis in defending their new country. Could you imagine how different the world would be if Palestinians fought shoulder to shoulder with Jews to defend their new countries. Don't forget that when Israel was born, so was a Palestinian State. Unfortunately, the Palestinians choose the flee the fighting hoping that the Jews would be killed by the other Arabs rather than defending their new home.

Video two: Palestinians built illegal housing without permits are being evicted in a legal court proceeding by the municipality so that the city can build parks. Again, not seeing the declaration of a "militarized zone" with violent removal of innocent civilians, but at least its closer than the first batch of videos you posted.

As an aside. Here in Brooklyn, New York, a bunch of people are being evicted from their homes so that some rich people can build a basket ball stadium for the New Jersey Nets. I know, its not Jews evicting Palestinians, but it must be part of a Zionist conspiracy, right?

Video three didn't work.

See, I am watching each and every video you post. Begrudgingly, I would admit that I am wrong if you can provide evidence for your outlandish earlier statement; however, you can't because its not true.

Israel bulldozes Palestinian homes when they are the homes of suicide bombers that killed Israeli civilians. That's a little nasty since the guy who committed the murders is also dead, but its done as an attempt to discurage future bombers because they will know that their family will become homeless if they kill innocent civilians.

Edit to add that you changed your videos while I was replying. Not fair.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by finemanm]

reply to post by finemanm



I am done here. I have no need to explain myself. Israel is a terrorist state and there is little doubt about it. Here in America we had a similar episode in our history but we didn’t label the targets of our aggression terrorists instead we called them heatherns, red skins, savages or Indians.

Like it or not those so called Palestinians are descendants of the original Jew. Who were forced to denounce their faith or die. Not all, but many are native inhabitants.

That said, there has undoubtedly been horrible atrocities against the Jews in Israel for millennium. The Hebron Massacre was horrible and one could argue that it was indeed once Jewish land. I do see the problem but at present it is Israel who is oppressing and stealing land, even from the now converted Jews (Muslims) from times past.



[edit on 1-10-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by finemanm
The issue with the NPT and Iran vs. Israel is that a signator of the NPT gets help from other nuclear countries to develop nuclear power in exchange for promising not to seek nuclear weapons.

It is hypocritical and a violation of the Treaty to accept foreign nuclear expertise say we want peaceful nuclear power only to turn around and use that information and know how to make weapons.

Israel has enough brilliant minds to figure out how to make nuclear power and nuclear weapons without the necessity of essentially stealing the knowledge under false pretenses. If a sovereign nation doesn't sign a treaty, its not bound by that law.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by finemanm]

exactly! imo Iran signed the treaty so they can pursue the rights of the third pillar, the right to peacefully use nuclear technology.[under false pretext to build nuclear warheads]. It not that hard when you have some help into the right direction. Hell Dr. Khan stole technology from my country from enrichments factories in Almelo and even sold that technology to Iran! The Third pillar is a joke! Its a Trojan horse! Or an Achilles' heel" of the NPT-regime in their owns words from IAEA and should not be incorporated into this treaty, these things should have been in bilateral treaties. North Korea is the big example of the failure of their protocol in the NPT and Iran is next !Israel didnt signed cause they dont want to disarm.And If i read lines like these from western people!

Originally posted by D.E.M.
reply to post by barrelmaker

 

They have no right to exist as a country in the first place, so the attacks against them were entirely justified.

I dont blame them!


Other countries such as the US, UK and France already have their own doctrines apart from the NPT of using nukes when attacked by chemical or biological weapons.

And oh i can also start talking about treaties concerning landmines, talking about WMD'S... and who and who not signed them?

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Foppezao]

reply to post by ocker


That's some interesting stuff! There's a lot of do as we say not as we do coming out of Israel. I would ask what's next, but we all know the answer

Star and flag!

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


I will add you to my respected foes list as you have debated with honor. You didn't call me names and you tried to let me see your point of view. I am afraid that we must now simply agree to disagree, but I respect you.

reply to post by finemanm


There is no good answer and the only real reason I trash on Israel is because they have the power and presence to police the Jewish people were as the Palestinian is just worried about survival. There will always be conflict unless some massive effort is made in the educational institutions as was done here in America for the African American. This type of thing can only be solved with peace, time and eductaion of the yet unbourn youth.

Originally posted by finemanm
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Israel bulldozes Palestinian homes when they are the homes of suicide bombers that killed Israeli civilians. That's a little nasty since the guy who committed the murders is also dead, but its done as an attempt to discurage future bombers because they will know that their family will become homeless if they kill innocent civilians.

Now whose making the outlandish claims?

In 2002 alone, over 2,800 refugee housing units were damaged and 878 homes were demolished or destroyed, leaving more than 17,000 Palestinians homeless or in need of shelter rehabilitation. A little nasty for them huh?

There is no way in the world you can prove that there were over 3678 suicide bombing attempts that justified this much carnage. And this is just the year 2002! So says the U.N. of all reporting agencies.

In 2003 there were 858 homes bulldozed over.

In 2004 the number of flattened houses jumped to 2,500 in total!

So don't try and lechture to us about who is in the IDF's cross hairs for ruin Finemanm. You are making incorrect assumptions now.

I realize that this is getting off topic too, so I'll leave Finemanm's outlandish claims where they rest.... Fantasy Land.

Also, Donkey_Dean was right about areas being declared militarized zones and then bulldozed over. The part about it being on youtube I'm not sure of but the IDF did indeed do this in Operation Defensive Shield back in 2003. This is when they drove into the Jenin Refugee Camp among other places and bulldozed down just about everything that they could. Or so said those pesky U.N. observers in their official reports on the matter. To be fair to the Zionists, the Palestinians fought back (silly them hey?) and this escalated or gave grounds for the Zionists to give themselves the right to demolish everything in sight. Nasty business at hand hey?

Oh well, back to God's Chosen People's hidden nuclear weapons facilities, as we all know that God would want them to have them over Allah's kids.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by 3DPrisoner]