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Religion is the science of defeating logical thinking

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posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly
 


I have nothing against religious people, when they are sane, keep it to themselves, and don't take the bible literally.


It's the "satan made me do it," or "the earth is 5000 years old," or "god speaks to me directly, and he wants you to..." kind of talk that I have no tolerance for.

Also the "god hates fagots" stuff. For goodness sake -- this is just thinly veiled bigotry, at best. Religious sanctioned bigotry.




posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


Sure there are extreme religous interpretations, as there are scientific, but the actual 'belief' stuff is pretty mainstream.....as is most of science.

i'm refering to the human ability to actually believe and wether that has some important survival/evolutionary purpose and attempting to destroy that ability might not be the best thing for us humans. Religions are one way of keeping the belief meme alive.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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It takes a brave religious person to question their belief system. Having your whole religious paradigm come crashing down around you is an intimidating prospect.

What if the Bible was translated incorrectly from the original Judaic texts?

Do Christians realise that their religion has close roots with not only Judaism but also the Muslim religion?

Was Jesus really a Caucasian man living in the Middle East as the Catholic faith depicts him to be?

Do Christians realise that Halloween was a Druidic time of celebrating ones ancestors and that it was the Christians of times past that perverted the celebration into a night of witches and fear? (Of course modern day Halloween is fun but the premise of my point remains)

[edit on 30-9-2009 by freeradical]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
im offended! how dare you say there is no logic in religion!

follow this. i will talk slowly...

there is only one true god.

that god is jesus christ.

we know this from the bible.

we know the bible is TRUE!

read your bible, it will tell you so.

no logic? HAH!



But this is EXACTLY what the OP is talking about. You're literally going by a book that has so many different versions and spinoffs, and you're saying that just because the book itself says it's true, then it's true.

Once again: How many different versions of this book are there? How many times could it have been changed? Also, the Earth and the Universe are NOT 6,000 years old - everyone knows that.

This book, while I appreciate the GUIDELINES that religion has offered us, to take the entire book literally just doesn't jive with me. The OP is right when he says that once you take it literally, you are throwing ALL logic out the windows. And no offense, but your post kind of validates that.

The world is not 6,000 years old. We (Humans) are NOT the center of the universe. I think Science is starting to prove it all...

I believe in a God - a supreme creator that created everything, but I don't believe that it would judge and kill and maim and harm like depicted in the bible. How many people did the OT God slaughter?

And God's will? That's just an excuse for fate and destiny and just when s**t happens...

You can still be a good person and do the right thing without the constraints of religion.

Religions have divided humans for a long time. The basic laws are good, don't get me wrong. But that's as far as I'll go. Other than the laws, I think it's done more harm than good...

Now, if you can't give me proof that JC was son of God and that this God from the bible exists WITHOUT USING THE BIBLE as a reference every single time like some do, than there's not much more to talk about.

And one thing that absolutely makes me sick about Christianity is how ANYTHING that contradicts it is "The Devil" or Satan. And if you DON'T believe JC died for you, you go to hell FOR ETERNITY. What kind of "God" would put someone through a test like that, give them ONE chance at it (one chance at life), and if they fail, they burn for eternity. Is that fair? Why would you want to pray to or believe in a God like that? The OT God sounds like a little kid having fun with his ant-farm. So God kills innocent people and children because it's his will? That's just an excuse. No thank you!

All this because of a BOOK. That is the ONLY thing Christians have to go by. I don't think I will ever understand...

And BTW, I've read the bible from front to back. I WAS a born-again Christian for a few years, so please don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

So I'm the devil, or I'm being led on by the great deceiver? Remember, that it was because of this book that people were getting burned alive for saying that Earth is not the center of the universe.

But I don't expect a star or even a nice reply from this, because indoctrination can be a real bummer.

[edit on 9/30/2009 by impaired]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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As stated in my earlier post on this thread, please present to me the illogicality of a single creator, i would love to prove you wrong.

I do not think it can be done so this should be fun.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by resonance
 


I don't know if you're talking to me, but if you are:

Since I'm agnostic, I do believe that SOMETHING created us. But like I said, I DON'T believe that it's this god from the OT. At least I don't think it happened the way the bible says...

So yeah, I'm cool with a creator. Just not a nutjob creator. Because lets face it, this OT God comes off as an immature maniac. Killing people for ridiculous reasons.

But honestly. We all can argue about this stuff until the cows come home. Truth is, we won't know until we die.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by resonance
As stated in my earlier post on this thread, please present to me the illogicality of a single creator, i would love to prove you wrong.

I do not think it can be done so this should be fun.



No one, I repeat NO ONE can prove or disprove the existence of a creator(s).



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by asmall89
Another religion bashing thread on ATS
who would have guessed?

Show me there isn't a God, or there isn't the supernatural.


Why don't you show there is a god and there is the supernatural.

Just because you don't know the answer yet it does not make it supernatural. Just like a Magic show, once you understand the trick it looses it's MAGIC, some people refuse to know or learn the trick because after that there isn't more magic, it seems like a Syndrome in religious believers aswell.


LMAO


On a post above i read the most hilarious thing I've ever read that follows the OP.

which OP stated as A=B and B=C so therefore A=C.

but anyone indoctrinated on religious belief will answer that B is a different B.



"The reason that you are not able to identify their (Christains) thinking as logic is bacause mans logic is not God's logic. God is far more advanced than man and you have yet to be able to see God's logic because you lack understanding "




Lack of understanding LMAO.

Edit: to add quote and fix spelling.



[edit on 30-9-2009 by Arsenis]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by KaytaggI think this is no accident. Religion is the science of staying ignorant.
Think about it -- in religion, there is no proof, no experiment, no evidence, etc, to make a case with.

Your premise is based on a logical fallacy (def: Clearly defined error in reasoning used to support or refute an argument, excluding simple unintended mistakes). Religion does not claim to be scientific. There is no hypothesis, experiment, peer review, etc. It is based on faith alone. Any Christian who argues for God based on facts instead of faith is suffering from the same belief in your logical fallacy. What you are saying is that people who have faith are stupid to do so, as they cannot back up their faith with facts. You erect a straw man, then blow him over. Since the entire argument is fallacious, it is only posted as an irritant to Christians or people of other faiths.

In religion, you're trained to think with your emotions, rather than your brain. You're trained to look at lack of evidence as a GOOD thing, because without evidence, you're only recourse is to blindly follow, and faith is looked at as a "virtue" necessary to get into heaven
Here and there are scientific evidences. For example, www.halos.com. Perhaps science throws out all facts that do not fit a perfect sequence of events. For example, did you know the Moon is at least a billion years older than the Sun or the Earth according to NASA moon rocks and experiments? Science cannot yet explain the Moon. Guess that's one staring you in the face, right? The more science we learn, the less we really know what we think we know. How about string theory? Accept that on faith, because you will never see a string. It comes down to faith, ultimately. Got faith?



Evidence be damned -- if they say it's true, then there's no room for other opinions!
I would not expect any Christians to argue with the evidence. All the Christians I know are upset that science throws out the evidence it doesn't like, or fires the scientists that find something that is not part of the accepted scientific line of thought. It appears science is as guilty as religion, according to your premise about not changing their minds. The internet is full of reports of fired scientists. Apparently, their superiors had the attitude "evidence be damned".

I wouldn't pick on the Christians. I'd lay the blame at the feet of humanity and human nature. People have their own selfish agendas, and their greed.

That's why we have ATS. We're after the truth. Welcome aboard. Let's find the truth, and spend a little less time trying to eat each other alive. Fair enough?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly
 


I have nothing against religious people, when they are sane, keep it to themselves, and don't take the bible literally.


It's the "satan made me do it," or "the earth is 5000 years old," or "god speaks to me directly, and he wants you to..." kind of talk that I have no tolerance for.

Also the "god hates fagots" stuff. For goodness sake -- this is just thinly veiled bigotry, at best. Religious sanctioned bigotry.


As a religious person, a Christian, I believe all the premises you posted above. Yes, the Earth is 6000 years old. Why not? If you are basing your belief on scientific evidence, who made the scientific evidence? Have you assumed, in faith, that the scientific evidence was always there? That, for one thing, requires a faith in uniformitarianism (Uniformitarianism, in the philosophy of science, assumes that the same natural processes that operate in the universe now, have always operated on the universe in the past, and at the same rates; and that the same laws of physics apply everywhere in the universe. ...).

Isn't it ironic? You have faith in the consistency of the scientific data. What if it is not? What if God exists, and God made everything appear to be aged? Why not? God, conceptually, can make the entire universe. Makes sense He can make a tiny nowheresville planet appear aged. Heck, even a painter or a carpenter can do that. No big deal. So, what if you are fighting like heck over something that scientifically tests and proves to be aged, but it was made in one minute only 6000 years ago? Including human drawings, bones, fossils, etc. Wow. You see, you and I were not here 7000 years ago. When you think about it and are honest with yourself, you really don't know for a fact. You surmise based on scientific evidence. Ever seen a magic act?

So, based on faith and confidence in the Bible, Yes to all the above. Satan exists, can influence man. God speaks to man. God hates what homosexuals do. He hates the sin, not the sinner.

Perhaps you have a wrong conception of God. Frankly, God is about love. So, first, you have to hate love to hate God. He sacrificed His Son for your life, individually, just for you. Anyone that would do that for me, I have no argument with!

God did not send His Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

God provided a way back for us, because we are not perfect, but we must be perfect to exist with Him. All crimes (sins) must be punished. It's either you or Him. I choose His gift.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


Science has brought us to the brink of destruction and nothing short of God can save us now. Laugh all you want but your post reeks of Ignorance.

Have you studied the bible? Do you understand that 90 percent of it has already come to pass or do you just ignore that?

What gives you the right to come here and bash religion like you just did?

Does that give me the same right to make a thread on how every Scientist makes stuff up as they go along?

I suppose you still believe in the big bang theory even though your same scientist are now admitting that the whole universe is speeding up.

The same scientist that slowly but surely now say that the bible looks to be completely accurate.

When your getting that nice OMG feeling next year after Wormwood shows up then let me know if your still


You do know that the Gog-Magog war that is prophesied in the bible is fought between Israel, Iran and Russia right? That one is billed to come true OCT 25th. Maybe then you will wake up out of your false sense of security, The one that your science must be giving you.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Arsenis

Originally posted by asmall89
Another religion bashing thread on ATS
who would have guessed?

Show me there isn't a God, or there isn't the supernatural.


Why don't you show there is a god and there is the supernatural.




One word, LOVE. Miracles happen every day. Angels save people every day.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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People these days, especially teenagers (the future), find it "too hard" to use logic. I've tried talking to many of my friends about more "advanced" things and they just scratch their head and change the subject to something they heard on TV and things like that. Some religions I suppose helps facilitate that but otherwise I would blame our lame education system. I'm certainly not challenged or worked hard enough and have even become lazy (which I'm fixing) because the amount of work they have us do is becoming less and less which is killing the learning pace. I'm losing hope, I don't know about you.


I don't thing we should adopt the other extreme (ex:the Japanese education system) but we certainly need to get rid of No Child Left Behind and stop catering to the kids who don't care one bit about education. It is ruining it for EVERYONE.

[edit on 9/30/09 by MoothyKnight]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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And BECAUSE religions are based on faith alone, that's probably why they are a dime a dozen.

How easily can I write or make-up something and say that if you don't believe in this, there will be consequences? It's just all about people blindly following something.

Faith/Smaith. I am not too fond of that word one bit. The whole fact that you NEED faith in a case like this should be a dead-giveaway.

If something is so real (God from the OT/NT, JC being son of God, the bible), then why does someone NEED to have faith? Why the test? Why not just chill up in the sky to prove your existence instead of this damn game!

It's a friggin game!



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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I was not talking to anyone, and i did not specify which god, i was just commenting on the topic of this whole thread, that religion is the science of defeating logical thinking. I think it is completely logical to believe in a god, i dont see how anyone can present a valid argument against that either



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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You guys are all forgetting the real story. Two words......

See picture below:






What I dislike is how people come up with really stupid theories to make their truth plausible. Like God burying dinosaur bones....sheesh. Yet they bad mouth others who propose smaller stretches that prove them wrong.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly
 


I have nothing against religious people, when they are sane, keep it to themselves, and don't take the bible literally.


It's the "satan made me do it," or "the earth is 5000 years old," or "god speaks to me directly, and he wants you to..." kind of talk that I have no tolerance for.

Also the "god hates fagots" stuff. For goodness sake -- this is just thinly veiled bigotry, at best. Religious sanctioned bigotry.
I know your point, I feel your point, and I agree with your point!

For myself I have decided that God, and religion have absolutely nothing in common, regardless of what any priest, preacher, or book says. God, the divine one, has nothing to do with religion.

When people ask what religion I belong to I tell them, I believe in God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and of our creators, and of the angels, and all the rest of it is debatable. The Jehovah Witnesses don't know what to say after that
The atheists can believe as they like, and I wont hold it against them.

But you are absolutely right about the "Religious" mind. It is one held behind a imaginary barrier called faith. Yes, I have faith in the Divine, but I also have faith in the human species that one day they will awaken to the truth they refuse to accept.

Does anyone really believe Gods Divine angels will only guard Muslims, or Catholics, or Baptists, or Hindu's,
or Jews? The division religion causes, is not divine in nature........



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by EarthFallingApart
You guys are all forgetting the real story. Two words......

See picture below:






What I dislike is how people come up with really stupid theories to make their truth plausible. Like God burying dinosaur bones....sheesh. Yet they bad mouth others who propose smaller stretches that prove them wrong.
That graphic is of Gen1
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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*sigh* You're either pissed off right now or your just trying to get everyone else pissed.

Tell ya what, prove that the Bible is wrong and I will become your personal parrot.

If I can prove that of science (as a whole not just parts like finding pigs teeth and calling it the missing link between apes and humans... That, I could do in my sleep) you become MY parrot!

Ya know what? Neither of us can! Neither science nor religion can be disproved at the moment. Me? I tend to believe both (aside from primordial soup crap and humans evolved from chipmunks... ya know, the stuff SCIENCE can't prove.) Am I illogical? NO!

Can science be? HELL yes! Until Jupiter got hit back in the nineties no scientist thought that earth could be hit by a speeding body from space! Although earth has craters... and science admitted that a meteorite killed the dinos... SCIENCE was illogical and fought tooth and nail against the idea and even laughed at the idea we could be wiped out by a flying rock from space!

Can religious people be illogical? YES! Are all of them? No! Can you prove there is no God? NO!

I'll believe how I wish to and you do the same.
Everyone gets along better that way.



[edit on 30-9-2009 by sisgood]



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by sisgood
 


You know what? That was very nicely said. Star on that post for you.

It's true. We don't know which one is the real deal FOR SURE.

But I am leaning on my beliefs, which I posted earlier.

We won't know till we die. How maddening!



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