Religion is the science of defeating logical thinking

Religion is sitting in a church thinking about fishing.
Spirituality is fishing and thinking about God.

Yet another thread boosting the anti christian's ego, some of the most brilliant minds out there are Christians. This is supposed to be a conspiracy website...

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


I thought jesus christ was the son of god?

Originally posted by Bejing
Religion is sitting in a church thinking about fishing.
Spirituality is fishing and thinking about God.

THANK YOU! This is what I tried to say in my first post in this thread. Didn't put it as nicely and compact.


People nobody should be bashing you for believing whatever you want. Hey if you think of the Jedi religion, or believe in the Flying spaghetti monster that's your choice. I respect that, but don't follow without question.

A quick definition:

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

What the people against religion are saying (including myself) is why do you follow it blindly? You should be constantly questioning it. The problems i have for it are the devotion, and the moral code governing the conduct of human affair.

From the quote above, why do you NEED to go to church every Sunday. Would a walk through the park enjoying what god created for us not be better that listen to some boring guy rant about stuff.

Also moral code. Some things are given without religion, they apply more to the golden rule. Don't kill, don't steal...... Heck, God Bless America but let's go kill some middle easterners. Hypocritical much? There are other rules I don't get that you're just suppose to follow them...period.

I would like somebody to explain to me (who's pro religion) this: Why is it that 2 consenting adults who are in love ( and I make it a point that it's not just lust) cannot have sex outside of wedlock? It is an expression of love, and love is the universal teaching, so why is it so bad to do so?

Again i do believe there is a God but anything man can warp, I will never accept as complete truth, if any truth.

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
Yet another thread boosting the anti christian's ego, some of the most brilliant minds out there are Christians. This is supposed to be a conspiracy website...

It is a conspiracy. Over 2000 years people have had their arm twisted to live a certain lifestyle because of the church and religion.

It is but a tool to divide and guide us. The NWO love it.


Again not saying it's completely false, if at all, but do not tell me it has not influenced the human race, sometimes in negative ways (i.e. crusades)


Again people, this is not Black and White. Truths are all shades of grey.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I've "debated" with Christians for years. We've talked about god, evolution, science in general, Noa's ark, bible prophecies, abortion, politics, and pretty much everything else under the sun. Something I've noticed, from the first debate to the most recent debate, is that the fundamentalist believers have no grasp, understanding, or utilization of logic.

Worse than just not making logical arguments, they seem to take the opposite approach, ignoring not just common sense, but methodically dissolving consistency between their own arguments. In other words, if a christian doesn't want A=C, and yet states A=B, and B=C, no amount of talking to them will convince them that A=C.

Instead, they'll make some off the wall claim, like "When B=C, it's a different B." You can explain to them the error they're making, but the fact is, they simply wont accept that A must equal C. Logic be damned, A can not equal C, so it is not they who are wrong, but it's all of logic that is wrong.

I think this is no accident. Religion is the science of staying ignorant.

Think about it -- in religion, there is no proof, no experiment, no evidence, etc, to make a case with. In religion, you're trained to think with your emotions, rather than your brain. You're trained to look at lack of evidence as a GOOD thing, because without evidence, you're only recourse is to blindly follow, and faith is looked at as a "virtue" necessary to get into heaven

Religious people are masters at restating what they previously believe, regardless of what the evidence, or logic, demonstrates to be true.

How do they do that? It's simple -- by spending years teaching themselves to simply ignore reality, and instead focus on imaginary preconceived notions of what's right. They force-fit their idea of reality into the universe.

It's not just a mistake on their part. It's a willful ignorance, which they have spent a great deal of time and energy practicing in order to satisfy their indoctrinated view of the world.


I bring this up because religion is detrimental to progress. When you turn people into robots, who's programming only allows one false paradigm of reality, then it's natural to think that this poisonous thinking can spill over into other cognitive exercises. Reality changes from being a pursuit of knowledge and wisdom to one of emotional fighting over which version of fantasy everyone should be forced to obey; and as soon as they have an idea which they want to be true, even if it's wrong, you'll never be able to convince them otherwise -- because they spend their lives turning what they want to be true into what they really believe is true.

Evidence be damned -- if they say it's true, then there's no room for other opinions!

Amen to that.
After a lifetime of being persecuted by extremely indoctrinated catholic parents, I have to agree with you.
There is no room for debate there. a classic case of "you're either with us or against us".

I couldn't give two hoots personally if one worship's the great spaghetti monster so long as it doesn't impinge on my freedoms and get shoveled down my throat...... the big problem with many religions, the Abrahamic one's in particular.
The bottom line with religion , no matter which, is it is all about FAITH, BELIEF.
There is no fact of XXXX (insert your favourite deity here) therefore in theory, they can't hold a rational logical debate anyway.
Nor, may I add can those of opposing views (such as I ) as our lack of faith is equally baseless.
What is important at the end of the day though IMO is that we respect each other's right to belief or lack of it,and not see it as an us and them ,left right, black white issue.
WE are all ONE regardless. Regardless of race ,creed and colour.
Namaste

Originally posted by Bejing
Religion is sitting in a church thinking about fishing.
Spirituality is fishing and thinking about God.

Ahhhh Grasshopper.
A star for you.

Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Your Just, Perfect, Loving, and Forgiving god, ordered the death of 3000 people. This is just ONE verse of MANY verses like it.

I showed a christian verses like this ( not generalizing you) and he/she replied with, "Well, I don't know, but I think God was angry in the old testament, but now he's loving because he sent his Son to die for us, and I know I'm saved."

Ultimately it comes down to respecting each other no matter what one believes. I don't care what you believe, but following something blindly is not the way. (Not saying you have followed christianity blindly, you've probly done a great deal of reading, but you get my point)

[edit on 1-10-2009 by doped00]

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
Yet another thread boosting the anti christian's ego, some of the most brilliant minds out there are Christians. This is supposed to be a conspiracy website...

And who said people were perfect?

Who says EVERYTHING they believe in are right?

This IS conspiracy website...just because A=C, does not mean A+1=C. It sure is easy to make everything absolute, isn't it?

The ethos of ATS is to deny ignorance, what bigger topic is there than Religion?

I raise an eyebrow to any Christian who believes the centre of Christianity is in the middle of Rome.

I raise both eyebrows to those that threaten to kill people who say that the Muslim religion promotes violence.

I look blankly at the Jehovah s witnesses who come to my door to tell me about the coming oblivion, and ask me to think about the afterlife. (I should tell them to check out ATS, that would blow their minds)

I face palm when I'm asked to provide evidence to prove that god doesn't exist. That's like trying to prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist.

But what I really don't understand is why do religious people get down right defensive when their personal religion comes under question?

Are the religious people saying that it is wrong to question?

[edit on 1-10-2009 by freeradical]

Originally posted by freeradical

Are the religious people saying that it is wrong to question?

[edit on 1-10-2009 by freeradical]

Essentially, YES. It's a built-in mechanism of religion. Don't doubt God or God will smite you (or something along that line).

While even if you did question God, I don't think you'd ever understand, what people fail to think about is questioning the men who propagated religion.

Example: one monk transcribing the texts decides he doesn't like what he's writing. A quick change of words has now changed that religion for future generation.

To add to this, the people re-writing it did their best to understand and relate to it so they could re-write it. Unconsciously they probably modified it that way too. I mean back in those days people thought the world was flat. Their beliefs were different therefore their perception of reality was different.

But the cream of the crop? This might seem blasphemous but unless God had a telephone line down to earth and told the person what to write, it's not his words, it's man's interpretation. And I don't think Jesus dictated the bible either.
And if those prophets heard voices of God why the heck do we lock up people in the 21st century and label them to be mentally insane for being schizophrenic yet 2000-3000 years ago it's perfectly ok to be God's word.

Food for thought.

As always at the end of my post I state. I do believe there is a God, just that religion is mostly a heaping load of BS. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm open to debate.....unlike what we are discussing in this thread.

reply to post by EarthFallingApart


So what your telling me is that any person who practices religion these days are in fact actually being deceived by those who preach the so called 'word of God' to them?

Not to get religious about this but I believe you could indeed be a true Angel sent from God to the people to rise up and understand that to question ones teaching of the various faiths is the pursuit of an enlightened soul!

Originally posted by freeradical
reply to post by EarthFallingApart

 

Not to get religious about this but I believe you could indeed be a true Angel sent from God to the people to rise up and understand that to question ones teaching of the various faiths is the pursuit of an enlightened soul!

Nah, I claim no such thing.

Essentially to sum up all my post, even outside this thread:

There are 3 things Faith, Spirituality and Religion.

One should have Faith in something and be Spiritual.

Being spiritual in my mind is to be aware of one's soul, have a sense of self-responsibility and honesty, and holding a set of PERSONAL morals and values.

Faith in there is good in this world, we are not just fleshy meat bags, and there is more to life than we perceive.

Finally religion. My problem is that religion has no true implications directly from god just man teaching man what is "true". Now some of these "truths" contradict even with themselves. I believe one should not be forced to believe them nor accept them as true if ones spiritual morals and values differ.

Follow your heart and think with you mind but use both when deciding something. Don't let others lead you. At the same time don't impose your beliefs but talk about them because you as well as the people you talk to grow from the discussion.

reply to post by EarthFallingApart


You have a most tempered outlook, one which I would hope others would aspire to. When I say tempered, I wish to infer that you have taken the time with a balanced hart and mind to think for yourself what is right and what is wrong about religion and that is indeed commendable. I tip my hat at you

An Athiest can be just as kind a neighbour as that of a Christian.

At the end of it all, each of us, no matter what our differing beliefs are all these same stange creatures called humans!

reply to post by freeradical


Monty Python FTW. I think another good song is "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life".

Don't want to go to far off topic so does ATS have a PM system?

reply to post by EarthFallingApart


ATS certainly does! U2U is available within the Member Tools. Just click on the button and choose 'U2U Private Messages'.

We all understand that religions are worldly institutions that are more interested in the pursuit of money and power.

We all know that religious institutions have left a trail of blood throughout history.

We even know that religious institutions have always relied heavily on the ignorance of their followers.

These facts have little to do with the validity or invalidity of the "holy" texts that these institutions revolve around.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


Just to clarify, are you saying that the original holy texts are indeed priceless resources to the human race and that they have been (ab)used by organisations to bend the will of mankind?

Originally posted by freeradical
reply to post by Alpha Arietis

 

Just to clarify, are you saying that the original holy texts are indeed priceless resources to the human race and that they have been (ab)used by organisations to bend the will of mankind?

They are, indeed, priceless resources, and they have certainly been abused by institutions throughout history.

Are any of them actually what they claim to be? That's a different debate.

I believe one of them is what it claims to be, yes.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


Interestingly about this time last year the BBC had a piece on the world's oldest surviving Bible.

news.bbc.co.uk...

"When people ask me if the Bible is the word of God I answer 'which Bible?'"
Professor Bart Ehrman

[edit on 3-10-2009 by freeradical]