Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-1

Hello.

Before we begin let me start by saying if you’re looking for Edward Casey, little grey guys zapping early humans or King Tut’s I-Pod and DVD collection stories this isn’t it! I have read many threads and watched many videos posted here at ATS over the past year or so. I have also read and listened to many fine theories and speculations on the origin of man and on lost civilizations and such over the past couple of decades of my adult life. I now would like to introduce one of my “Theories” into the hat/ring. I’ll be presenting factual and speculative information. I’ll admit right up front and MAKE no mistake in understanding that I submit this as “Theory”.

I want to begin with the dreaded Atlantis/Lemuria myths.

These are viewed as a joke in certain academic circles while in others they are taken very seriously. I have poured over many readings of Plato’s account of the lost...

Civilization/Continent

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I honestly do not believe those two locations ever existed. However, having said that. I’m a firm believer in the possibility of a retelling of a story that had been passed down from generation to generation of when the ocean levels rose during the last ice age melt off. In many cultures from around the world that lived during those periods in time along the coasts, inlet seas or rivers they tell Tales/Myths about having their entire world as they knew it flooded.

We will be traveling the world in exploration on this subject. So get a hot cup of coffee or if you’re like me a scotch and sit back and enjoy

Homo sapiens

A human is a member of a species of bipedal primates in the family Hominidae (taxonomically Homo sapiens—Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man").[2][3] DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in east Africa about 200,000 years ago.

If modern man is truly only 200,000 years old by some estimates and civilization only really began around the earliest signs of a sedentarization process which can be traced back to the Mediterranean region to as early as 12000 BC. Then just where the hell have we been for the preceding 165,000 to 188,000 years?

Then out of nowhere we get this!

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Göbekli Tepe

Göbekli Tepe's circles range from 30 to 100 feet in diameter and are surrounded by rectangular stone walls about six feet high. Many of the pillars are carved with elaborate animal figure reliefs, including bulls, foxes, cranes, lions, ducks, scorpions, ants, spiders, and snakes. Other freestanding sculptures depicting the animals have also been found within the circles. During the most recent excavation, archaeologists uncovered a statue of a human, as well as sculptures of a vulture's head and a boar.

The oldest structures belong to what archaeologists call the early Pre-Pottery Neolithic A period, which ended around 9000 B.C. Strangely enough, the later remains, which date to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B period, or about 8000 B.C., are less elaborate. The earliest levels contain most of the T-shaped pillars and animal sculptures.

The most recent building phase at Göbekli Tepe (Level II) has been dated both comparatively and absolutely (C14) to ca 8,000 BC, with an earlier primary building phase (Level III) ending as early as 9,000 BC. The age of the earliest occupation cannot yet be determined; the depth of the deposit, however, would suggest a period of several millennia, which signifies that the site had already existed in early Paleolithic times.

I'm not a big fan of Hancock but he does raise some rather interesting questions. I don’t believe as he does that there was a vast global civilization. Rather I believe there were slightly more advanced megalithic cultures that were spread along the ancient Ice Age coastlines. I'm not a believer in Atlantis as in one location that sank. In fact I think the whole island story is completely a myth. I do however think that some hints of a real lost past are given in Plato’s dialogue. Hints that describe what really happened and have been told through stories/myths passed down through successive generations.

There is a very interesting part in the dialogue that always seems to be overlooked by many. It explains why there is a large gap in social/technological development between the survivors and the lost advanced Atlantian cities. In it he describes the oceans rising from below not the land sinking.

When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient.

The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples.

Now lets discuss Ancient Aegean/Greece-Turkey

No Not this one thats present day Greece & Turkey

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I was referring to the really ancient Aegean.

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The current coastline dates back to about 4000 BC. Before that time, at the peak of the last ice age (c. 16,000 BC) sea levels everywhere were 130 metres lower, and there were large well-watered coastal plains instead of much of the northern Aegean. When they were first occupied, the present-day islands including Milos with its important obsidian production were probably still connected to the mainland.

The present coastal arrangement appeared c. 7000 BC, with post-ice age sea levels continuing to rise for another 3000 years after that. The subsequent Bronze Age civilizations of Greece and the Aegean Sea have given rise to the general term Aegean civilization. In ancient times the sea was the birthplace of two ancient civilizations – the Minoans of Crete and the Mycenean Civilization of the Peloponnese.[2]

Prehistoric Crete

Cretan history is surrounded by myths (such as those of the king Minos; Theseus and the Minotaur; and Daedalus and Icarus) that have been passed to us via Greek historian/poets (such as Homer).
Because of a lack of written records, estimates of Cretan chronology are based on well-established Aegean and Ancient Near Eastern pottery styles, so that Cretan timelines have been made by seeking Cretan artifacts traded with other civilizations (such as the Egyptians) - a well established occurrence. For the earlier times, radiocarbon dating of organic remains and charcoal offers independent dates. Based on this, it is thought that Crete was inhabited from the 7th millennium BC onwards.

Minoan civilization

The oldest evidence of inhabitants on Crete are preceramic Neolithic farming community remains that date to approximately 7000 BC.[8] A comparative study of yDNA haplogroups of modern Cretan men showed that a male founder group came from Anatolia or the Levant, like the Greeks.[9] See History of Crete for details.

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The Development of the Anatolian Aceramic Neolithic Package
11000 B.C. to 6000 B.C.

The basic assemblage that comprised the Neolithic package developed between 11000 B.C. and 7000 B.C. in places like Tell es-Sultan (Jericho) in the Levant among the Natufians and Pinarbasi in southwestern Anatolia. This was an amazingly innovative and creative period in human recorded history. For the first time large groups of people came together in an interdependent way to solve their problems of survival and to improve their quality of life by settling permanently in areas of natural abundance. The specialization of productive labor that spread its benefits to everyone is perhaps the greatest revolution in human socialization.

In about 10200 B.C. houses were being built in Hallan Çemi Tepesi in eastern Anatolia where they used stone incised bowls and made extensive use of wild plants and animals. The site has some of the earliest evidence of possible pig domestication. The settlement of Cayönü was formed in 8500 B.C. in southeastern Anatolia and developed elaborate buildings with terrazzo floors. They used awls and fishhooks of cold-hammered native copper, and show the earliest evidence of the possible use of flax to weave linen textiles. At about this same time Nevali Cori built monumental stone structures that were probably shrines. After 8000 B.C. Asikli Höyük became a real town surrounded by a city wall with a large obsidian industry. Over the next 2,000 years these trends toward urbanization culminated in the settlements of Çatal Höyük and Can Hasan in Anatolia.

Query.... Could these foundations of civilizations simply be the result of mass migration inland or up to higher ground aka mountains which became islands away from the rising Mediterranean? People forced to migrate then came together? Seems every bit as plausible as any other theory. Also lets not forget these anomalies from around the same location and time frame.

How was it explained in the Dialog again?

When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient.

Anatolia History

Eastern Anatolia contains the oldest monumental structures in the world. For example, the monumental structures at Göbekli Tepe were built by hunters and gatherers a thousand years before the development of agriculture. Eastern Anatolia is also a heart region for the Neolithic revolution, one of the earliest areas in which humans domesticated plants and animals. Neolithic sites such as Çatalhöyük, Çayönü, Nevali Cori and Hacilar represent the world's oldest known agricultural villages.

Now let’s discuss Ancient India and the Indus valley

Lost city 'could rewrite history'

The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history. Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old. The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.

The ocean levels were lower during the last ice age. That area in question was not glaciated. It was very hospitable. The last ice age did not mean the entire planet was frozen. During that period the ice caps were much larger with a very large percentage of Earths water frozen on land over most of the northern hemisphere. During the most recent ice age (at its maximum about 20,000 years ago) the world's sea level was about 130 m lower than today, [ 130 meters is equal to 426.51 feet.] due to the large amount of sea water that had evaporated and been deposited as snow and ice, mostly in the Laurentide ice sheet. Which meant the coast lines were extended much further out then they are now.

The area in question is off the west coast of India. In this image from Google it would be the light blue area. The theoretical coast line would be at the farthest extent from the present coast line to the outer edge of the light blue area in this picture.

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I find it rather interesting when we consider that there has been no real evidence of Stone Age tool making in India. Then out of nowhere again we have one of the worlds earliest civilizations show up along the Indus valley.

Complete speculation on my part.

But I wouldn't think it's too far off to consider the possibility of an early Stone Age civilization that had to move inland as the oceans slowly rose to their present day levels and covered up any evidence of early Stone Age development. Where were they for the preceding 6.000 years? I postulate that there were early Stone Age megalithic sites. I wouldn't exactly call them large civilizations but large city states. Situated along or near those former ice age coast lines and they had to uproot and move inland because the oceans rising and covered them which may have happened in a combination of rapid large surges coupled with a slow progressive rise in ocean levels both, scenarios could have happened within the time frame we are speaking of.

History of India

Isolated remains of Homo erectus in Hathnora in the Narmada Valley in Central India indicate that India might have been inhabited since at least the Middle Pleistocene era, somewhere between 200,000 to 500,000 years ago.[5][6] Most traces of the out of Africa migration along the shores of the Indian Ocean seem to have been lost. Due to flooding in the post-Ice Age period, recent finds in Tamil Nadu (at c. 75,000 years ago, before and after the explosion of the Toba volcano) indicate the presence of the first anatomically modern humans in the area.

The Mesolithic period in the Indian subcontinent covered a time span of around 25,000 years, starting around 30,000 years ago. More extensive settlement of the subcontinent occurred after the end of the last Ice Age, or approximately 12,000 years ago. The first confirmed permanent settlements appeared 9,000 years ago in the Rock Shelters of Bhimbetka in modern Madhya Pradesh, India.
Early Neolithic culture in South Asia is represented by the Mehrgarh findings (7000 BCE onwards) in present day Balochistan, Pakistan. Traces of a Neolithic culture have been found submerged in the Gulf of Khambat in India, radiocarbon dated to 7500 BCE.[7] The Edakkal Caves has one of the earliest exmples of stone age writing. Late Neolithic cultures sprang up in the Indus Valley region between 6000 and 2000 BCE and in southern India between 2800 and 1200 BCE.

We always hear the saying that in all myths there is a tiny kernel of truth. I remember the ancient Indian myth about how one of their Gods built Rama's bridge or the ancient traditions of India itself that explain that Manu and the Seven Sages retreated to the Himalayas from a place that was not the Himalayas at the time of a terrible oceanic flood, and that they brought with them from their antediluvian homeland not only the Vedas but also all the 'seeds' that would be necessary to re-establish permanent food-producing settlements.

Whether this land bridge is manmade structure or just the top of a low lying mountain ridge that was eventually covered by the rising oceans and later built upon makes no difference to me. But what is surprising is that they knew about it and it wasn't until NASA was able to show it that the myths genesis was revealed.

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The out of Africa route is the proven theory. However the dating gets really fuzzy when we go back beyond 40000 BC. Due to Radio Carbon dating methods limitations.

Many megalithic sites create real problems for archaeologists when they attempt to date them. It's funny how many leave that crucial bit of critical information out when they state that a theory that does not fit into the accepted timeline is wrong.

They cannot date Stones

Once a stone is cut and put into place there is no way to date when that occurred so in order to find out the date of such locations they search for other clues mainly carbon from village camp fires, grave sites etc. Who’s to say that those locations are not from village campsites or migration through that area that occurred thousands of years after the stone structures were erected? I know its pure conjecture on my part.

Radiocarbon Dating Limitations

Because the decay rate is logarithmic, radiocarbon dating has significant upper and lower limits. It is not very accurate for fairly recent deposits. In recent deposits so little decay has occurred that the error factor (the standard deviation) may be larger than the date obtained. The practical upper limit is about 50,000 years, because so little C-14 remains after almost 9 half-lives that it may be hard to detect and obtain an accurate reading, regardless of the size of the sample.

Harappan civilization

There is very little concrete proof that Dwarka was actually a part of that civilization. There are very many similarities between the two. But to the untrained eye so are the similarities between ROME and Greece. However it does prove again what I have been speculating in that Dwarka was a separate and older location and was submerged before the Harappan showed up pretty much out of nowhere. Again we had "myths" first that were passed down surrounding its location. Then we had scientific proof later of their existence. Remember there is very little if any evidence of a development stage like what we see in Egypt.

Yet the Harappan had indoor plumbing, sewage and water storage. The city street layouts were extremely well thought. With detailed infrastructure supposedly at the earliest point in their existence. Where do you suppose that early development phase took place if not there then where? It had to have had a development phase and location. So far there have been no big discoveries on land. We do however have a very real possibility of a much older location just off the coast that does not fly in the face of other sciences about this possibility.

Harappan Civilization

One of the most fascinating yet mysterious cultures of the ancient world is the Harappan civilization. This culture existed along the Indus River in present day Pakistan. It was named after the city of Harappa which it was centered around. Harappa and the city of Mohenjo-Daro were the greatest achievements of the Indus valley civilization. These cities are well known for their impressive, organized and regular layout.
Over one hundred other towns and villages also existed in this region. The Harappan people were literate and used the Dravidian language. Only part of this language has been deciphered today, leaving numerous questions about this civilization unanswered.

Harrapan origin theories

There are several theories as to the origin of the Indus Valley civilization. The earliest hypothesis was that it was an early form of a Vedic civilization which would come to dominate most of South Asia, which was presumed to have been characterized by influence from Indo-European migrations. However, this theory began to be rejected when no signs of the traditional culture associated with the Vedas was uncovered in that of the Indus Valley. The absence of horses amongst the many realistic representations of animals was also considered significant, considering the importance of horses and chariots to the culture described in the Vedas. Detailed bone analysis has revealed that the horse itself was introduced to the subcontinent only at the beginning of the second millennium B.C., which contributes to the chronological problem with this theory.[35][36] Finally, the concept of urban life which dominates the Indus Valley civilization is foreign to the more rural lifestyle which is described in the Vedas.[37]

The next theory put forward was that the civilization was of proto-Dravidian origin.[38] This theory was first proposed by researchers from Russia and Finland who attempted to show that Indus valley symbols could be derived from the Dravidian language group. Today, the Dravidian language family is concentrated mostly in southern India and northern Sri Lanka, but pockets of it still remain throughout the rest of India and Pakistan (the Brahui language), which lends credence to the theory. Finnish Indologist Asko Parpola concludes that the uniformity of the Indus inscriptions precludes any possibility of widely different languages being used, and that an early form of Dravidian language must have been the language of the Indus people. However, the proto-Dravidian origin theory is far from being confirmed due to an emphasis on linguistic connection while evidence of a broader cultural connection remains to be found.[37]

Geneticist:

On one hand we have a very real genetic lineage of the Aboriginals of Australia tied to some blood lines in India this line was established over 60.000 to 70.000 years ago and some have argued as old as 80.000 years. They didn't sail there so the most obvious route would be coastal migration along the now sunken Indian coast. The exact location we are discussing.

DNA confirms coastal trek to Australia

DNA evidence linking Indian tribes to Australian Aboriginal people supports the theory humans arrived in Australia from Africa via a southern coastal route through India, say researchers. The research, lead by Dr Raghavendra Rao from the Anthropological Survey of India, is published in the current edition of BMC Evolutionary Biology.
One theory is that modern humans arrived in Australia via an inland route through central Asia but Rao says most scientists believe modern humans arrived via the coast of South Asia. Skeletal remains, dating back between 40-60,000 years from Lake Mungo in New South Wales, also support the theory that modern human arrived in Australia at least as far back as this, he says.

Let's go further East from here, Australia.

Again keep in mind the light blue areas were exposed land when the oceans where as much as 130m lower than they are now. There would have been vast areas that were exposed dry land around the time in question.

Pleistocene

The Pleistocene (pronounced /ˈplaɪstəsiːn/) is the epoch from 2.588 million to 12 000 years BP covering the world's recent period of repeated glaciations.

Each glacial advance tied up huge volumes of water in continental ice sheets 1500–3000 m thick, resulting in temporary sea level drops of 100 m or more over the entire surface of the Earth. During interglacial times, such as at present, drowned coastlines were common, mitigated by isostatic or other emergent motion of some regions.

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Earliest Australian

THE FIRST INHABITANTS : Last May, the Australian National University released this photograph, taken in 1974, of the skeleton of a man from Lake Mungo, NSW which the university has now dated at between 56,000 and 68,000 years old. Previously, the remains had been dated at just 30,000 years old. REUTERS FILE PHOTO

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Interesting tibit

Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) researchers have opened a window into the past by exposing ancient mangrove forests entombed beneath the Great Barrier Reef. AIMS biologist Dr Dan Alongi said the expedition was surveying the impact of nutrients on coastal inshore areas when scientists unearthed mangrove forests in old river channels they believe may snake for 30 kilometres to the edge of the continental shelf. Scientists have long theorised that sea level rose very gradually over several thousand years, but these remnant mangrove forests tell another story. While it was previously known that relic river beds exist beneath the Great Barrier Reef, formed 9000 years ago when the sea level was lower than the continental shelf, their significance was never studied.

"When we took the first samples it was difficult to believe… we stood amazed wondering what exactly we were dealing with. We thought it was cyclone debris, but it was far too deep to be a modern event," said Dr Alongi. AIMS researchers cored 1-2 metres of sediment and found remnant mangrove 70 centimetres below the surface of the present seafloor. These core samples of mud are an evolutionary time frame. The evidence will help to establish the state of the reef and nutrient sediment information as it existed prior to human activity. Dr Alongi said the mangroves were incredibly well preserved; a fact most likely attributed to the antibiotic properties in the concentrated tannins. "The cores still have the characteristic smell of tannins, that’s why we thought they were young.

"Within the cores were intact root systems and parts of trees including twigs and branches that radiocarbon dating put between 8550 and 8740 years of age. "There’s such an abrupt change in core composition from mud-like substance to intact mangrove branches…from the modern to the ancient, that it suggests a large climate change happened," said Dr Alongi.

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Land bridge

Migration was achieved during the closing stages of the Pleistocene, when sea levels were much lower than they are today. Repeated episodes of extended glaciation during the Pleistocene epoch, resulted in decreases of sea levels by more than 100 metres in Australasia. The continental coastline extended much further out into the Timor Sea, and Australia and New Guinea formed a single landmass (known as Sahul), connected by an extensive land bridge across the Arafura Sea, Gulf of Carpentaria and Torres Strait. Nevertheless, the sea still presented a major obstacle so it is theorised that these ancestral people reached Australia by island hopping. Two routes have been proposed. One follows an island chain between Sulawesi and New Guinea and the other reaches North Western Australia via Timor.

The sharing of animal and plant species between Australia-New Guinea and nearby Indonesian islands is another consequence of the early land bridges, which closed when sea levels rose with the end of the last glacial period. The sea level stabilised to near its present levels about 6000 years ago, flooding the land bridge between Australia and New Guinea.

Climatology and Geology:

The two sciences that offer collaboration is Climatology and Geology both sciences have proven these locations where at one time dry land and well before that 10.000 year mark.

Sea Level Rise, After the Ice Melted and Today

Massive ice sheets covered parts of North America, northern Europe, and several other regions during the last ice age. This huge volume of ice lowered global sea level by around 120 meters as compared to today. After the ice sheets began to melt and retreat, sea level rose rapidly, with several periods of even faster spurts. The first such spurt may have started about 19,000 years ago, at which time ocean levels rose 10-15 m in less than 500 years. However, this event is not seen in all past sea level records and new evidence suggests that ice melting may have begun much earlier.

A more clearly-defined accelerated phase of sea level rise occurred between 14,600 to 13,500 years before present (termed "meltwater pulse 1A" or "MWP-1A" by Fairbanks in 1989), when sea level increased by some 16 to 24 m (see Figure 1). Although the meltwater was previously believed to have come chiefly from Antarctica, a recent reconstruction by Tarasov and Peltier of ice sheet retreat using a glacial model calibrated by a variety of data points instead to a largely North American source. Furthermore, diatom fossils in sediments from fjords in East Antarctica show that ice melting there began perhaps 3000 years later, thus ruling out Antarctica as a likely source.

Myth vs. mythology

First off I will say that I do not believe most of the mythology surrounding such claims. I do however feel that hidden within those tales is again the tiniest kernel of fact.

Separate the wheat from the chaff?

Mythology in my opinion is the result of nothing more than a giant game of telephone played by school children. As you know where they all line up in a straight row and the child at the front of the line whispers something into the ear of the child next to them and they in turn pass the message down in the same manner and so on.

By the time it gets to the end the last child reveals what was whispered in their ear most often it has very little similarity if any at all to what the first child whispered at the front of the line. Now imagine passing down a tale of a massive coastal flooding where their whole city/village was destroyed. Being primitives they would have said many things were the cause most likely the wrath of god. To them their "whole world" was flooded as they knew it.
If we read a Greek story in their mythology about how Zeus was angry one day at the people so he took out his wrath on them where the sky thundered and lightning bolts flew from his arse does this mean that on that day there wasn't a horribly destructive naturally occurring thunder and lightning storm which they later made a tale to explain it?

I can't understand modern academia's resistance to the possibility of such sites. When if we step back and separate the Myth's from the equation and look at it in a purely scientific manor it makes sense.

Relevance? Correlation?

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It proves hands down that a city/civilization can be lost to time. That the Oceans can reclaim land that once held a civilization. It proves that one time myths are sometimes based on facts. It shows us that we don't know everything about human history. It also demonstrates that if we are to expand our knowledge and understanding of mans past we really need to start looking off the coast all around the planet.

I feel that we are potentially missing huge chunks of our history simply because the oceans rose during the last of the ice age melt off and reclaimed the land on which the earliest signs of human development once stood.

I'd say it's very relevant.

End of Part 1. Stay tuned for part 2…

We will be continuing our exploration of a possible lost past as we head North from Australia into Japan, Korea and China then East into the Americas and finally end up in Europe and Central Asia.

Neanderthal vs. Homosapien

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[edit on 23-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

OK thats it Slayer, you really need to get some backing and start making some serious documentaries. Your work is nothing short of brilliance and even though this is a subject that I have no clue as to truth or fiction, your presentation makes me believe that you and your theories have serious merit and need to be developed.

reply to post by SLAYER69



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I feel that we are potentially missing huge chunks of our history simply because the oceans rose during the last of the ice age melt off and reclaimed the land on which the earliest signs of human development once stood.

Understatement of the Year..?!


This was quite interesting...wonder how much we have missed since day 1..?

Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) researchers have opened a window into the past by exposing ancient mangrove forests entombed beneath the Great Barrier Reef.

Look forward to the rest...speaking of rest - go get some bro.

Holy crap!

Man, you have some talent!

I've got to come back so I can read it all and chew on the material. It's rare that I see things that are very well done, well thought out, and well executed that grab my interest.

This does.

Impressive, and interesting.
I can honestly say, I'm at a cliff hanger.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Another awesome thread buddy.

I think the solution for explaining the dispersal of ancient cultures and the reason we find certain similar animals and plants all over the world is that the earth was smaller in the distant past. Ignoring the Neal Adams haters club here on ATS, it is a theory that can be used to explain many of the unexplained oddities of our past.

In fact Lawrence S. Myers, after 35+ years of research concludes that the earth is in fact expanding and that one time in the past most of the land masses we call continents, were in fact joined together.
Before anyone jumps on the ignorance bandwagon please read his entire website: www.expanding-earth.org...


Another s/f for you!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Good job buddy. You clearly did your research and put a lot of work into it.
Like Antar said you should make documentaries.

I however like the alien, fairy tale versions.

S&F obviously, you make me.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great post and great research!!!

Human origins and ancient civilisations are fascinating, I enjoyed that Slayer.

I had no clue that our Daintree was so old, only found that out very recently- the mangroves you mentioned beneath the Barrier Reef are thought to be 260 million years old- madness it's like my brain can't comprehend that!

Look forward to part 2.

It proves hands down that a city/civilization can be lost to time. That the Oceans can reclaim land that once held a civilization. It proves that one time myths are sometimes based on facts. It shows us that we don't know everything about human history. It also demonstrates that if we are to expand our knowledge and understanding of mans past we really need to start looking off the coast all around the planet. I feel that we are potentially missing huge chunks of our history simply because the oceans rose during the last of the ice age melt off and reclaimed the land on which the earliest signs of human development once stood.

I absolutely see the validity in Your work, and the above statement. However, I don't really dismiss the claims of calamity by the ancient scribes. Heck, People who try impressing others with their vast amount of knowledge, and wisdom usually refer back to these very same ancient scribes.

So, I think Your work is right on the money; except I do 100% believe in the possibilities, or real occurrences of calamities causing the destruction.

As We all have seen lately on the History Channel amongst others, the existence of modern man is completely wiped out within a few thousand years, and You even asked the question where is the civilization from that far back??? Really where is it? I donno, but it's a good question.

I am of the firm belief that the infamous mythological libraries of ole' really did exist, and the Elite of today use this very information to control us. From where I sit now it seems to be the only logical explanation as to why, even from Your own perspective, as to why the evidence that You very eloquently provided continues to go on ignored. Yet, it with proper studies, and research could change the very history of how We view the Earth.

Regarding the calamities that I mention for immediate, or semi immediate changes We need look no further than Mt.St.Helens. In just a a few day period one medium size eruption changed a great deal of land.

Spirit Lake still exists in the same basic spot, but now the entire lake sits around a 100, or more feet higher than before........... Without seeing it modern man would call that a myth.

The lakes in Africa that have been found to have natural gas in suspension at the bottom; only waiting for a disruption to unleash the deadly mixture was unknown even a few decades back. Another myth turned reality.

We are learning so many things now about how natural disaster of epic proportions can occur, and has occurred in the Geologic Record. Solar flares that can wipe out all life in a blink of an eye; now are considered not only probably, but a cautious likely echoes out from what's being said.

Either way, You've shown an excellent array of documentation of what is known as "pre-history". One way, or another what seems beyond myth, but now factual from You, and others is still scoffed at, or laughed at by the modern scientific World. Why?

Scoffed at, and laughed at when the very real modern science is discovering We, and any evidence of Our existence would be wiped out in a very short window of Geologic time.

Thanks Slayer
S&F

Part 2 will be a seperate thread all together. I just wanted to set the tone with this one. I'll be rolling out tons more stay tuned.

Thanks everybody.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Part 2 will be a seperate thread all together. I just wanted to set the tone with this one. I'll be rolling out tons more stay tuned.

Thanks everybody.

Fantastic, I'm looking forward to more reading on this topic.

Great job, S&F!

All I can say is

Great post Bro.

I'm looking forward to Part2

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


With my next thread I'll be starting in China then go across the pacific to the americas then to europe and finnally central asia.

There is a method to my madness.



[edit on 22-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by antar


Well I dont think this eliminates that possibility.
The time frame is large enough for both to have occured.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Very well done my friend starred and flagged all the way. I have definitely learned a thing or two here. As I looked to discover where it was all leading I had come to the same conclusion as yourself.

I feel that we are potentially missing huge chunks of our history simply because the oceans rose during the last of the ice age melt off and reclaimed the land on which the earliest signs of human development once stood.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. I am really going to delve into the second part of your thread when you create it. I have to ask you a question. Do you believe this same conclusion can be deduced when considering a global flood as described in the Bible?

[edit on 22-9-2009 by jackflap]

Nice work Slayer and thanks for the u2u heads up. I absolutely love
this stuff - wondering how and why we got where we are today.

So much history is buried, must be cleaned off and interpreted.

Your opening video was very nicely done, I liked the pace and
music you put to it.

Of the books I have read on related subjects there's a few I would
highly recommend if you have not read them already:

Atlas of World mythology by Joseph Campbell, Vols I-V
Entire Clan of the Cave Bear series by Jean Auell
The Presence of the Past by Rupert Sheldrake - a challenge to modern
evolutionary thought.
Worlds In Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky
Aztec - a novel by Gary Jennings
Guns, germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
Why civilizations choose to fail by Jared Diamond

I will follow your threads with interest. It is my belief that in many
ways our civilizations begin at a peak and then decline, there's
countless examples as you well know. Exactly why this is the case
is a critical question to be answered and will provide many clues
for questions yet unasked. Go boldly then and search for new answers
which await those with the vision and dedication to find them. Thanks
again and know that we're all rooting for ya buddy!

Slayer, with all respect what you have here is a very solid basis for a PHD thesis in Archaeology, Anthropology, or Ancient History. Polish it up a little and this would snag a degree hands down, it's that solid.

You need to publish this before someone steals the credit.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Excellent, well presented, researched, and organized thread Slayer! This was a very good thread that had all the feel of a professional and scientific research paper. Good job my friend, keep up the great work! I do feel that your postulate seems very well founded and possible, it appears it can account for the ancient civilization stories while still having a legitimate scientific foundation. You also did a good job of CLEARLY stating this was all your own theories and such. Can't wait for part two..

S/F....

Excellent work, SLAYER69!

I think one of the reasons why we don't find remnants of the most ancient civilisations is that they were smaller, so what was an important city may be completely under some small town today and nobody knows about it.

Another thing is that smaller towns are more easily affected by one person, so if a town had someone that was good at inventing new tools or at creating new ways of doing things (like new ways of building houses or new ways of garbage disposal), that town could prosper quickly and appear as a much advanced town in the eyes of the less advanced towns that surrounded it.

Great work, warn me when you create part 2!

PS: I didn't saw the video, I really hate videos, they are the best way of wasting time.