Hello.
Before we begin let me start by saying if you’re looking for Edward Casey, little grey guys zapping early humans or King Tut’s I-Pod and DVD
collection stories this isn’t it! I have read many threads and watched many videos posted here at ATS over the past year or so. I have also read
and listened to many fine theories and speculations on the origin of man and on lost civilizations and such over the past couple of decades of my
adult life. I now would like to introduce one of my “Theories” into the hat/ring. I’ll be presenting factual and speculative information. I’ll
admit right up front and MAKE no mistake in understanding that I submit this as “Theory”.
I want to begin with the dreaded
Atlantis/Lemuria myths.
These are viewed as a joke in certain academic circles while in others they are taken very seriously. I have poured over many readings of Plato’s
account of the lost...
Civilization/Continent
I honestly do not believe those two locations ever existed. However, having said that. I’m a firm believer in the possibility of a retelling of a
story that had been passed down from generation to generation of when the ocean levels rose during the last ice age melt off. In many cultures from
around the world that lived during those periods in time along the coasts, inlet seas or rivers they tell Tales/Myths about having their entire world
as they knew it flooded.
We will be traveling the world in exploration on this subject. So get a hot cup of coffee or if you’re like me a scotch and sit
back and enjoy
Homo sapiens
A human is a member of a species of bipedal primates in the family Hominidae (taxonomically Homo sapiens—Latin: "wise man" or "knowing
man").[2][3] DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in east Africa about 200,000 years ago.
If modern man is truly only 200,000 years old by some estimates and civilization only really began around the earliest signs of a sedentarization
process which can be traced back to the Mediterranean region to as early as 12000 BC. Then just where the hell have we been for the preceding 165,000
to 188,000 years?
Then out of nowhere we get this!
Göbekli Tepe Göbekli Tepe's circles range from 30
to 100 feet in diameter and are surrounded by rectangular stone walls about six feet high. Many of the pillars are carved with elaborate animal figure
reliefs, including bulls, foxes, cranes, lions, ducks, scorpions, ants, spiders, and snakes. Other freestanding sculptures depicting the animals have
also been found within the circles. During the most recent excavation, archaeologists uncovered a statue of a human, as well as sculptures of a
vulture's head and a boar.
The oldest structures belong to what archaeologists call the early Pre-Pottery Neolithic A period, which ended around 9000 B.C. Strangely enough, the
later remains, which date to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B period, or about 8000 B.C., are less elaborate. The earliest levels contain most of the
T-shaped pillars and animal sculptures.
The most recent building phase at Göbekli Tepe (Level II) has been dated both comparatively and absolutely (C14) to ca 8,000 BC, with an earlier
primary building phase (Level III) ending as early as 9,000 BC. The age of the earliest occupation cannot yet be determined; the depth of the deposit,
however, would suggest a period of several millennia, which signifies that the site had already existed in early Paleolithic times.
I'm not a big fan of Hancock but he does raise some rather interesting questions. I don’t believe as he does that there was a vast global
civilization. Rather I believe there were slightly more advanced megalithic cultures that were spread along the ancient Ice Age coastlines. I'm not a
believer in Atlantis as in one location that sank. In fact I think the whole island story is completely a myth. I do however think that some hints of
a real lost past are given in Plato’s dialogue. Hints that describe what really happened and have been told through stories/myths passed down
through successive generations.
There is a very interesting part in the dialogue that always seems to be overlooked by many. It explains why there is a large gap in
social/technological development between the survivors and the lost advanced Atlantian cities. In it he describes the oceans rising from below not the
land sinking.
When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on
the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other
time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved
here are the most ancient.
The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser
numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were any actions noble or
great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples.
Now lets discuss Ancient Aegean/Greece-Turkey
No Not this one thats present day Greece & Turkey
I was referring to the really ancient Aegean.
The current coastline dates back to about 4000 BC. Before that time, at the peak of the last ice age (c. 16,000 BC) sea levels
everywhere were 130 metres lower, and there were large well-watered coastal plains instead of much of the northern Aegean. When they were first
occupied, the present-day islands including Milos with its important obsidian production were probably still connected to the mainland.
The present coastal arrangement appeared c. 7000 BC, with post-ice age sea levels continuing to rise for another 3000 years after that. The
subsequent Bronze Age civilizations of Greece and the Aegean Sea have given rise to the general term Aegean civilization. In ancient times the sea was
the birthplace of two ancient civilizations – the Minoans of Crete and the Mycenean Civilization of the Peloponnese.[2]
Prehistoric Crete
Cretan history is surrounded by myths (such as those of the king Minos; Theseus and the Minotaur; and Daedalus and Icarus) that have been passed
to us via Greek historian/poets (such as Homer).
Because of a lack of written records, estimates of Cretan chronology are based on well-established Aegean and Ancient Near Eastern pottery styles, so
that Cretan timelines have been made by seeking Cretan artifacts traded with other civilizations (such as the Egyptians) - a well established
occurrence. For the earlier times, radiocarbon dating of organic remains and charcoal offers independent dates. Based on this, it is thought that
Crete was inhabited from the 7th millennium BC onwards.
Minoan civilization
The oldest evidence of inhabitants on Crete are preceramic Neolithic farming community remains that date to approximately 7000 BC.[8] A
comparative study of yDNA haplogroups of modern Cretan men showed that a male founder group came from Anatolia or the Levant, like the Greeks.[9] See
History of Crete for details.
The Development of the Anatolian Aceramic Neolithic Package
11000 B.C. to 6000 B.C.
The basic assemblage that comprised the Neolithic package developed between 11000 B.C. and 7000 B.C. in places like Tell es-Sultan (Jericho) in
the Levant among the Natufians and Pinarbasi in southwestern Anatolia. This was an amazingly innovative and creative period in human recorded history.
For the first time large groups of people came together in an interdependent way to solve their problems of survival and to improve their
quality of life by settling permanently in areas of natural abundance. The specialization of productive labor that spread its benefits to everyone is
perhaps the greatest revolution in human socialization.
In about 10200 B.C. houses were being built in Hallan Çemi Tepesi in eastern Anatolia where they used stone incised bowls and made extensive use of
wild plants and animals. The site has some of the earliest evidence of possible pig domestication. The settlement of Cayönü was formed in 8500 B.C.
in southeastern Anatolia and developed elaborate buildings with terrazzo floors. They used awls and fishhooks of cold-hammered native copper, and show
the earliest evidence of the possible use of flax to weave linen textiles. At about this same time Nevali Cori built monumental stone structures that
were probably shrines. After 8000 B.C. Asikli Höyük became a real town surrounded by a city wall with a large obsidian industry. Over the next 2,000
years these trends toward urbanization culminated in the settlements of Çatal Höyük and Can Hasan in Anatolia.
Query.... Could these foundations of civilizations simply be the result of mass migration inland or up to higher ground aka mountains which became
islands away from the rising Mediterranean? People forced to migrate then came together? Seems every bit as plausible as any other theory. Also lets
not forget these anomalies from around the same location and time frame.
How was it explained in the Dialog again?
When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on
the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other
time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved
here are the most ancient.
Anatolia History
Eastern Anatolia contains the oldest monumental structures in the world. For example, the monumental structures at Göbekli Tepe were built by
hunters and gatherers a thousand years before the development of agriculture. Eastern Anatolia is also a heart region for the Neolithic revolution,
one of the earliest areas in which humans domesticated plants and animals. Neolithic sites such as Çatalhöyük, Çayönü, Nevali Cori and
Hacilar represent the world's oldest known agricultural villages.
Now let’s discuss Ancient India and the Indus valley
Lost city 'could rewrite history'
The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient
human history. Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of
India could be over 9,000 years old. The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in
the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.
The ocean levels were lower during the last ice age. That area in question was not glaciated. It was very hospitable. The last ice age did not mean
the entire planet was frozen. During that period the ice caps were much larger with a very large percentage of Earths water frozen on land over most
of the northern hemisphere. During the most recent ice age (at its maximum about 20,000 years ago) the world's sea level was about 130 m lower than
today, { 130 meters is equal to 426.51 feet.} due to the large amount of sea water that had evaporated and been deposited as snow and ice, mostly in
the Laurentide ice sheet. Which meant the coast lines were extended much further out then they are now.
The area in question is off the west coast of India. In this image from Google it would be the light blue area. The theoretical coast line would be at
the farthest extent from the present coast line to the outer edge of the light blue area in this picture.
I find it rather interesting when we consider that there has been no real evidence of Stone Age tool making in India. Then out of nowhere again we
have one of the worlds earliest civilizations show up along the Indus valley.
Complete speculation on my part.
But I wouldn't think it's too far off to consider the possibility of an early Stone Age civilization that had to move inland as the oceans slowly
rose to their present day levels and covered up any evidence of early Stone Age development. Where were they for the preceding 6.000 years? I
postulate that there were early Stone Age megalithic sites. I wouldn't exactly call them large civilizations but large city states. Situated along or
near those former ice age coast lines and they had to uproot and move inland because the oceans rising and covered them which may have happened in a
combination of rapid large surges coupled with a slow progressive rise in ocean levels both, scenarios could have happened within the time frame we
are speaking of.
History of India
Isolated remains of Homo erectus in Hathnora in the Narmada Valley in Central India indicate that India might have been inhabited since at least
the Middle Pleistocene era, somewhere between 200,000 to 500,000 years ago.[5][6] Most traces of the out of Africa migration along the shores of
the Indian Ocean seem to have been lost. Due to flooding in the post-Ice Age period, recent finds in Tamil Nadu (at c. 75,000 years ago, before and
after the explosion of the Toba volcano) indicate the presence of the first anatomically modern humans in the area.
The Mesolithic period in the Indian subcontinent covered a time span of around 25,000 years, starting around 30,000 years ago. More extensive
settlement of the subcontinent occurred after the end of the last Ice Age, or approximately 12,000 years ago. The first confirmed permanent
settlements appeared 9,000 years ago in the Rock Shelters of Bhimbetka in modern Madhya Pradesh, India.
Early Neolithic culture in South Asia is represented by the Mehrgarh findings (7000 BCE onwards) in present day Balochistan, Pakistan. Traces of a
Neolithic culture have been found submerged in the Gulf of Khambat in India, radiocarbon dated to 7500 BCE.[7] The Edakkal Caves has one of the
earliest exmples of stone age writing. Late Neolithic cultures sprang up in the Indus Valley region between 6000 and 2000 BCE and in southern India
between 2800 and 1200 BCE.
We always hear the saying that in all myths there is a tiny kernel of truth. I remember the ancient Indian myth about how one of their Gods built
Rama's bridge or the ancient traditions of India itself that explain that Manu
and the Seven Sages retreated to the Himalayas from a place that was not the Himalayas at the time of a terrible oceanic flood, and that they brought
with them from their antediluvian homeland not only the Vedas but also all the 'seeds' that would be necessary to re-establish permanent
food-producing settlements.
Whether this land bridge is manmade structure or just the top of a low lying mountain ridge that was eventually covered by the rising oceans and later
built upon makes no difference to me. But what is surprising is that they knew about it and it wasn't until NASA was able to show it that the myths
genesis was revealed.
The out of Africa route is the proven theory. However the dating gets really fuzzy when we go back beyond 40000 BC. Due to Radio
Carbon dating methods limitations.
Many megalithic sites create real problems for archaeologists when they attempt to date them. It's funny how many leave that crucial bit of critical
information out when they state that a theory that does not fit into the accepted timeline is wrong.
They cannot date Stones
Once a stone is cut and put into place there is no way to date when that occurred so in order to find out the date of such locations they search for
other clues mainly carbon from village camp fires, grave sites etc. Who’s to say that those locations are not from village campsites or migration
through that area that occurred thousands of years after the stone structures were erected? I know its pure conjecture on my part.
Radiocarbon Dating Limitations
Because the decay rate is logarithmic, radiocarbon dating has significant upper and lower limits. It is not very accurate for fairly recent
deposits. In recent deposits so little decay has occurred that the error factor (the standard deviation) may be larger than the date obtained. The
practical upper limit is about 50,000 years, because so little C-14 remains after almost 9 half-lives that it may be hard to detect and obtain an
accurate reading, regardless of the size of the sample.
Harappan civilization
There is very little concrete proof that Dwarka was actually a part of that civilization. There are very many similarities between the two. But to the
untrained eye so are the similarities between ROME and Greece. However it does prove again what I have been speculating in that Dwarka was a separate
and older location and was submerged before the Harappan showed up pretty much out of nowhere. Again we had "myths" first that were passed down
surrounding its location. Then we had scientific proof later of their existence. Remember there is very little if any evidence of a development stage
like what we see in Egypt.
Yet the Harappan had indoor plumbing, sewage and water storage. The city street layouts were extremely well thought. With detailed infrastructure
supposedly at the earliest point in their existence. Where do you suppose that early development phase took place if not there then where? It had to
have had a development phase and location. So far there have been no big discoveries on land. We do however have a very real possibility of a much
older location just off the coast that does not fly in the face of other sciences about this possibility.
Harappan Civilization
One of the most fascinating yet mysterious cultures of the ancient world is the Harappan civilization. This culture existed along the Indus River
in present day Pakistan. It was named after the city of Harappa which it was centered around. Harappa and the city of Mohenjo-Daro were the greatest
achievements of the Indus valley civilization. These cities are well known for their impressive, organized and regular layout.
Over one hundred other towns and villages also existed in this region. The Harappan people were literate and used the Dravidian language. Only part of
this language has been deciphered today, leaving numerous questions about this civilization unanswered.
Harrapan origin theories
There are several theories as to the origin of the Indus Valley civilization. The earliest hypothesis was that it was an early form of a Vedic
civilization which would come to dominate most of South Asia, which was presumed to have been characterized by influence from Indo-European
migrations. However, this theory began to be rejected when no signs of the traditional culture associated with the Vedas was uncovered in that of the
Indus Valley. The absence of horses amongst the many realistic representations of animals was also considered significant, considering the importance
of horses and chariots to the culture described in the Vedas. Detailed bone analysis has revealed that the horse itself was introduced to the
subcontinent only at the beginning of the second millennium B.C., which contributes to the chronological problem with this theory.[35][36] Finally,
the concept of urban life which dominates the Indus Valley civilization is foreign to the more rural lifestyle which is described in the Vedas.[37]
The next theory put forward was that the civilization was of proto-Dravidian origin.[38] This theory was first proposed by researchers from Russia and
Finland who attempted to show that Indus valley symbols could be derived from the Dravidian language group. Today, the Dravidian language family is
concentrated mostly in southern India and northern Sri Lanka, but pockets of it still remain throughout the rest of India and Pakistan (the Brahui
language), which lends credence to the theory. Finnish Indologist Asko Parpola concludes that the uniformity of the Indus inscriptions precludes any
possibility of widely different languages being used, and that an early form of Dravidian language must have been the language of the Indus people.
However, the proto-Dravidian origin theory is far from being confirmed due to an emphasis on linguistic connection while evidence of a broader
cultural connection remains to be found.[37]
Geneticist:
On one hand we have a very real genetic lineage of the Aboriginals of Australia tied to some blood lines in India this line was established over
60.000 to 70.000 years ago and some have argued as old as 80.000 years. They didn't sail there so the most obvious route would be coastal migration
along the now sunken Indian coast. The exact location we are discussing.
DNA confirms coastal trek to AustraliaDNA evidence linking Indian tribes
to Australian Aboriginal people supports the theory humans arrived in Australia from Africa via a southern coastal route through India, say
researchers. The research, lead by Dr Raghavendra Rao from the Anthropological Survey of India, is published in the current edition of BMC
Evolutionary Biology.
One theory is that modern humans arrived in Australia via an inland route through central Asia but Rao says most scientists believe modern humans
arrived via the coast of South Asia. Skeletal remains, dating back between 40-60,000 years from Lake Mungo in New South Wales, also support the theory
that modern human arrived in Australia at least as far back as this, he says.
Let's go further East from here, Australia.
Again keep in mind the light blue areas were exposed land when the oceans where as much as 130m lower than they are now. There would have been vast
areas that were exposed dry land around the time in question.
Pleistocene
The Pleistocene (pronounced /ˈplaɪstəsiːn/) is the epoch from 2.588 million to 12 000 years BP covering the world's recent period of
repeated glaciations.
Each glacial advance tied up huge volumes of water in continental ice sheets 1500–3000 m thick, resulting in temporary sea level drops of 100 m or
more over the entire surface of the Earth. During interglacial times, such as at present, drowned coastlines were common, mitigated by isostatic or
other emergent motion of some regions.
Earliest Australian
THE FIRST INHABITANTS : Last May, the Australian National University released this photograph, taken in 1974, of the skeleton of a man from Lake
Mungo, NSW which the university has now dated at between 56,000 and 68,000 years old. Previously, the remains had been dated at just 30,000 years old.
REUTERS FILE PHOTO
Interesting tibit
Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) researchers have opened a window into the past by exposing ancient mangrove forests entombed beneath
the Great Barrier Reef. AIMS biologist Dr Dan Alongi said the expedition was surveying the impact of nutrients on coastal inshore areas when
scientists unearthed mangrove forests in old river channels they believe may snake for 30 kilometres to the edge of the continental shelf. Scientists
have long theorised that sea level rose very gradually over several thousand years, but these remnant mangrove forests tell another story. While it
was previously known that relic river beds exist beneath the Great Barrier Reef, formed 9000 years ago when the sea level was lower than the
continental shelf, their significance was never studied.
"When we took the first samples it was difficult to believe… we stood amazed wondering what exactly we were dealing with. We thought it was cyclone
debris, but it was far too deep to be a modern event," said Dr Alongi. AIMS researchers cored 1-2 metres of sediment and found remnant mangrove 70
centimetres below the surface of the present seafloor. These core samples of mud are an evolutionary time frame. The evidence will help to establish
the state of the reef and nutrient sediment information as it existed prior to human activity. Dr Alongi said the mangroves were incredibly well
preserved; a fact most likely attributed to the antibiotic properties in the concentrated tannins. "The cores still have the characteristic smell of
tannins, that’s why we thought they were young.
"Within the cores were intact root systems and parts of trees including twigs and branches that radiocarbon dating put between 8550 and 8740 years of
age. "There’s such an abrupt change in core composition from mud-like substance to intact mangrove branches…from the modern to the ancient, that
it suggests a large climate change happened," said Dr Alongi.
