Obama Tosses an Ally Overboard --and We Get Zip

reply to post by KAKUSA

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OH really?

It's getting deeper.

So let me ask you, would it be ok for the Russians to put a defense shield in Cuba. The bottom line those shield installations had nothing to with protection from IRAN , plenty of places we can put it, IF it was about Iran.

reply to post by WalterRatlos

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Tell that to the Bulkans, the Eastern Europeans, and Ukrainians.

The northern European corridor next to the Baltic , Poland, Belarus, Lithuania has always been the path invading armies have taken to Moscow. Russia remembers its history and wants these lands well in its own influence. Any force including NATO, the US, Germany, the EU standing it its way are looked upon as an enemy and it will do all it can to resist.

Russia lost a lot when the cold war ended with Russian defeat in 1991. Putin and military leaders want their power back and they want as many Eastern European countries as possible under their power and control.

Russia's influence and power will only increase in the next couple of decades.

Europe and the US want independence for all the eastern states and inclusion in the EU. This goes against Russian interests in the area. The US is the only nation currently capable of putting up any resistance, NATO, the EU, Germany have to appetite for this as the memory of WWII is still with them.

If Obama falters the job will only be more difficult for the next president.

Ok thats the polish government talking, belive me polish people were always against this stupid shield all it would do is piss russia off do you really think this shield can stop anything russia can throw at them? please

Someone posted a thread the other day goofing on the US vs Europe

and Had a very interesting point.... Europe 800 Million people, Millions more men in total forces.

America is broke, we are making enemies and maintaining enemies when we are 2 oceans apart and virtually can't be invaded ...UNLESS we spread ourselves too thin.

Europe makes for... an Extremely effective ally if the European Nations become a super power in their own right. Far more people than Russia, better over all tech when put together given US help as well...

A much better ally if they fully take on self defense than right now..

The European Union needs to arm itself fully and we need to be out of the picture...

Some people here need to understand that Russia is and have always been a part of Europe.

The best thing for western Europe is to have relaxed & friendly relationship with Russia on all levels - they belong with the rest of Europe -The cold war is over and the pseudo Communistic regime is gone.

Why Fox and others are parroting over this, is because they are lobbying for the American Military complex and the neocon Hawks - who now loses a contract and some influence and bases in Poland and in the Czech Republic.

There are better places to build these Installations without surrounding Russia and their direct borders and to save us all the tension and paranoia from the Russians.

All the pro missile defense people are forgetting or ignoring one simple fact. The system rarely had a successful intercept in as near perfect conditions as could be during testing. You're talking about 1 inbound and 1 outbound missile closing at 10 000's mph. If they're off just a smidge it's a miss. Now throw in some jamming, chaff or other techniques used to foil the radars ability to work properly and the system is dead.

I think Obama realized it was a pretty expensive bluff and not worth the dollar cost or the political cost.

reply to post by DEEZNUTZ

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Obama is apologizing and caving in to everybody in Europe.
Putin is laughing at him.

how is the ` missile sheild ` going to protect poland from the most logical form of attack from russia [ assuming they had the inclination ] ???????????

will ` missile sheild " stop a major conventional spearhead [ tanks and infantry ] ????????

will missile sheild stop tactical or strategic manned bombers ?????????

will missile sheild stop cruise missiles [ < 500m altitude ] ???????????

will missile sheild intercept any of the vast array of tactical unguided rockets in the russian inventory - with ranges sufficient to hit over one half of polish terretory ????????????????

answers to all the above are - no

so why - would russia even consider using the one weapon that missile sheild will defend against ICBMS and other balistic missiles against a target ` on its doorstep ` like poland ???

My perceptions on this incident and on many other instances are that, WHO are we, to decide what Iran, Russia, China etc should do within their own borders?

Most of you people here believe in the NWO conspiracy to take over the world. Now how does that jive with American Empire building. I am starting to ask, anytime I see any of this # on TV or in newspapers, what is the viewpoint of these other countries? Sovereign nations have the FRACKING right, to do whatever the hell they want.

Now, if we can prove that any of these government are creating terrorists and sending them into other countries, we give that country notice, if their people do not change, WE DECLARE WAR ON THEIR COUNTRY. We do not go police the fracking world. WE ARE SLAVES TO OUR DEBT AND GOVERNMENT.

People need to start asking if are government is actually doing what is in the best interest of its own people, not the Mega Corps, Banks or their NWO ambitions.

MMMkay!

Sorry about my rant, not trying to preach. I am just so sick of the NWO.

JEEZ Mike I thought we were deep in debt?

So we can spend on assets, personnel and Missiles, but we can't spend on our infrastructure as it is an affront to conservative method?

It's not our bloody business, we are broke and we can nuke the world many times over...

crisis averted

You guys heard it straight from the horse's mouth, in the form of a Polish ATS member chiming in and stating that "most Polish people don't even want the missile defense"....and yet we're STILL debating this topic? It was just revealed to us that the Polish gov't stood to gain some incentives out of the deal if they let us put the defenses within their country....SOOO there you go, a completely ulterior motive that has absolutely NOTHING to do with keeping Poland and/or the rest of Europe safe. I think Obama has actually made a smart move here, and I am NOT his biggest fan by any stretch. But, any programs that we can cut, we SHOULD cut. It's time to stop playing games all over the planet, and start focusing on things here at HOME.

As far as Russia being some kind of dangerous nation that is pumping loads of money into terrorism or WHATEVER nonsense you may believe.....The cold war is over. Russia is FINALLY doing okay for itself after a long rough period, do you think they would really be so stupid as to jeopardize their possible glorious return to superpower-dom?? They sell weapons to smaller nations, well big deal!!! They've come over to "our side" post-cold war, so should it really be such a surprise that they're cashing in? Or is it only OK for the US to sell weapons abroad? Talk about hypocrisy.

Russia is just playing the game in the Middle East....and much more intelligently than the US is right now. If we were smart we would take a step back and reconsider this military-industrial EMPIRE that we've created, because it is unsustainable. Right now, we're a nation of loopholes and big business, a plastic culture finally having to come to terms with the fact that we CAN'T have it all, that this ISN'T the land of unlimited opportunities for everyone, that WE are being lied to on a daily basis by the very people who are profiting off of the backs of the working men and women.

WE need to re-evaluate things. WE need to change. WE need to mind our own business and take care of our home first.

Would you really b**h about your neighbors grass being too high if you had a yard full of weeds and an 86' Caprice up on blocks?

BE objective people, this is not RISK and we are not playing a friggin' game.

We give millions and billions a year to European nations and Israel I think they can afford to build there own defence shield. We aren't protector of the world and we can't afford it. So cry me a river.

NVM

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Thill]

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Thill]

Exactly thank You very much , I was just about to start a longly post explaining that we didn't care about that shield one way or another it was just a good way for the media to have something to talk about and our goverments to get some nice perks ahh and yea I live in that funny place called Poland .

War what war

There is not going to be any war here any time soon



[edit on 19-9-2009 by Thill]

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Thill]

So in the right corner we have...

A few scared full of fear former George Bush supporters who are 'upset' for the Polish people.

In the other corner we have, actual Polish people who are confirming that this thing wasn't even wanted there.

End o' story.

My thoughts exactly. Its like he open Pandor's Box or unlocked the gate so whoever wants to attack who has no worries.
Don't you just love they way he/washington have been doing business latley. No discussion or fourm with the American people. It gets done then we here about it.To late suckers we signed that bill into law at midnight or in the 1000 page "Tax you to Death" bill.

This is bad idea #2138

reply to post by Grayelf2009

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I think you are really blowing this out of proportion.

No 'gates of hell' have been opened. We've just taken a step in the direction of NOT BLOWING us up.

For the first time in a while...

We need to play it cool with the Russians, no reason to stir up trouble.

Also remember we are in the European Union on a pretty decent position. Its not like we are a scared defenseless country . But I know that most Americans dont even know where Poland is so I don't blame You

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Thill]