Abduction research -- The name "Jesus" -- If you have been abducted...

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
The grays are only a drop in the bucket and although they are invasive, perhaps even hostile, they aren't demonic or fallen angels.

The problem with that, is that in all honesty you have no more proof for your sourcing than the demonic/fallen angel folks do. So, you cannot negate them. You're both in the same boat. The idea is, get the hell into the water and lose the life preserver.

I mean, if your original premise was to write an objective article about this portion of the phenomena, and it's perceived reactions, then it seems your mind is already made up without really doing the diligence of digging in. You're just fighting one ideology with another, which never works unless you're preaching to the right choir.

Make any sense?

[edit on 17-9-2009 by jritzmann]

reply to post by lpowell0627

n other words, in order to determine whether or not saying 'Jesus' is effective, you would need to use credible abduction stories, no? I'm curious as to how you are determining which abductions actually happened and which ones didn't.

I would also add that it should be ascertained which jesus were the individuals referring to.

Jesus ben Phiabi,
Jesus ben Sec,
Jesus ben Damneus and
Jesus ben Gamaliel. E
Jesus ben Sirach
Jesus ben Pandira.
Jesus ben Ananias
Jesus ben Saphat.
Jesus ben Gamala



[edit on 17-9-2009 by moocowman]

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
The grays are only a drop in the bucket and although they are invasive, perhaps even hostile, they aren't demonic or fallen angels.

The problem with that, is that in all honesty you have no more proof for your sourcing than the demonic/fallen angel folks do. So, you cannot negate them. You're both in the same boat. The idea is, get the hell into the water and lose the life preserver.

I mean, if your original premise was to write an objective article about this portion of the phenomena, and it's perceived reactions, then it seems your mind is already made up without really doing the diligence of digging in. You're just fighting one ideology with another, which never works unless you're preaching to the right choir.

Make any sense?

[edit on 17-9-2009 by jritzmann]

The intent of my research and article is not to prove the existence of ET. That is well beyond the scope of what I'm trying to do. I am, in a sense, already preaching to a choir -- i.e. the Christians and non-Christian who are already convinced that ETs exist and need no further evidence. It's sort of like scientists who are convinced that evolution is a fact, though the evidence supporting it is scant. They accept the premise and move on from there with different theories. In the case of UFOs and aliens, I have personally witnessed UFOs on several occasions. That's all the evidence I need, even though the testimony of numerous other credible individuals (regarding sightings, abductions, implants, physical evidence, etc.) gives me confidence that I'm not mistaken in my conclusion that UFOs exist.

And finally, yes, I suppose it does appear to be one ideology at odds with another. Some Christians are certain aliens are demonic or fallen angels and represent nothing but a threat to humanity. They believe that these beings (regardless of whether they are grays or other species) are sent to distract us from following Jesus. I think otherwise and am trying to get the "fence-sitters" to realize that the Christian myth as it relates to ET is simply another fear-based tactic for control of humanity's mind and spirit. I believe, and want others to believe as well, that while some ETs are possibly hostile, those do not represent ALL ETs and we should not develop prejudices against ETs because of the actions of what is likely a minority of aliens visiting earth.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


My thoughts exactly! Assuming that 1 single God fearing alien is the abductor in itself is completely rediculous. I'm with you all the way. Assuming ppl from Nebraska really get abducted, wouldn't it be safe to say that one of the aliens laughed at Jesus? I mean seriously?

reply to post by jritzmann


If the sample was pure magnesium,It wasn't a meteorite.
Even Iron Meteorites have trace minerals,metals like nickle.

The Roswell crash was in 1947,not `57
Your dismissal of the Roswell witnesses were not named,could you give us
the names of those who are"dropping like flies".Most are dead.Old age..But not before being interviewed by Kevin Randle by the last count around two hundred people
military and civilians who were directly and indirectly involved in the recovery.
Are they ALL liars? Were they ALL confused/demented? Intell.Officer Maj.Marcel
who was there,said the Debris Field was "three-quarters of a mile in length and several hundred feet in width"..We did not know what it was".When they took a sample box full back to the base,the Commander Blanchard told them to announce to the press they "captured a flying saucer".
Your approach to answering statements you believe are not factually correct or ficticious seems to be similar to the disinformation smear machine of a political party
and their action committees.If you disagree with the Witnesses,discredit them in the eyes of their peers.Your analysis procedure is flawed when you omit to tell people
the facts that also DO NOT support your conclusions like a pure 'magnesium meteorite.'
The existance of this phenomenon isn't proven by sweeping the general rug over them all,when the author of the" balloon" story(Gen.Ramey)later admitted to friends at a reunion the balloon story was "The biggest lie I ever told.".and his assist.Col.DuBose
admitted "the balloon was a cover story ordered by Hdqrs."(I AGREE with This Assessment,Not Yours.) Only court cases are won with skilfull slander; but you can't smear the living if they have more friends than you do. Col.Jess Marcel Jr. has stated he was taken aside and briefed in Washington,D.C. by an Official who told him his father was right,MAJESTIC is a true story that really happened,but an illegal arm of the Government has kept it in denial/security from everyone else.Billions are spent
keeping it in denial."Military Industrial Complex' is what we called it back in the day.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


jesus ....

sue seige = su sej [mirror] jes us ...

geez, u.s. ....

geez, us ....


"sing you lair it "+" "

sing u lar it "+"

sing u lar it tee

singularity .... where the light gathers.


SEEK WRIT, SO SIGH E.T.

SECRET SOCIETY

[edit on 17-9-2009 by soul of integrity]

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Gotcha. Let me offer this to you then:

In many instances, the phenomena seems to present, or manifest what one expects, or, like I said before within a cultural filter. My own experiences have said to me that these beings, or presence seems to reflect back at us.

So, want angels? No problem. Aliens? Ok. Demons? Comin' right up.

And said experiences will conform to the filter, cultural framework, or whatever.

So, if they're demons for some - Jesus saves right? But, does that make them demons? For that person? Yes.

What is at the core is the issue. Don't you ever wonder why it is, that no one can seem to agree on the source of the phenomena? Is it ET? Is it spiritual? Is it dimensional?

Those who believe and have experienced one of those few premises will defend it to the last.

Why?

Because that's their perception. The experience seems tailor-made to the individual. Everyone perceives it their own way to a certain degree.

Focus of intent plays a strong role here. If you believe it's demons, no amount of persuasion will say otherwise to you. Same for ETs, or extra dimensionals.

That's the reason no one can agree...because everyone's filter is dictated by experience, culture and conditioning. Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong.

This is what it is to step back from the ideology and the culture-bound crapola that many in UFOlogy feed you. This is about looking past all that, and trying to get the overall arcing picture.

It ain't easy.

For one, as we've seen in this thread, no one wants to hear it. "Don't bother me with facts my mind's made up" says Stan Friedman of fundamental skeptics...but the other side is no different, neither side can look past the facade to try and get at the source:

Something is playing masquerade, and we don't know what it is.

Why don't we know after all this time? Because everyone is too busy getting married to their theories and dancing at the reception til everyone is well past drunk and ready to go home.

This is the reason for stagnation of the study. get a better handle on the circumstances and surrounding issues of the phenomena and you'll see this and wonder how the hell you missed it.

Then, you have a better handle on why "Jesus" works for some and not others.

Here's the hint: Absolute conviction of focus, that it will work.

Then: Why would it work?

There's way more in that hint than meets the eye. That's the second hint. It's nothing I can lead you through, as it's meaningless if I do. You have to see it for yourself.





[edit on 17-9-2009 by jritzmann]

reply to post by Visiting ESB


As a Believer,I have never seen a craft I could say was "Alien",
I have seen a number of strange craft I could not Identify,So I guess they would be called
a UFO.
How odd the churches teach the "demons" are constructing bodies to pilot the
ships they build with these spindly-weak lite-weight greys.
All to spark our interest in clean,quiet,free-energy tranportation for ourselves too.
You never know what might happen if those fallen angels keep interfering with our nuclear
tests and launches;We might "build-down" with the russians, and scrap some warheads.
What an Evil thing to do,Interfere with a Tactical Decision to store Warheads in a depot
In Bentwaters,AFB England.(Never mind they were Illegally stored there by NATO treaty.)
They even allegedly "kidnapped" a christian brother in one of the Carolinas ,Charleston.
He was brainwashed by these short white large-eyed large headed,no hair,alien.He was "duped" by them into becoming an Anti-Nuclear Activist.Their machines,and bright lights "possessed" him with a compelling urge to write every senator,congressman,Defense dept.,etc. to "stop the madness"! His church wasn't interested in his photos or drawings and strange dictation writing;they wanted him to "stop all contact because it was of the devil".Lt.Col.Wendle Stevens AF Ret.studied this case and wrote his findings.They said they were from Zeta Reticulum,not hell;and they wanted a Nuclear-free Earth so life will survive,not souls without faith.You can't consistantly say there are Angels But no Aliens.
Angels are by definition alien to us,as they are not human.
Don't slander celestial beings-Jude 8

reply to post by jritzmann

There is a cultural filter it goes through,but it gets clogged with Newsweek explanations
and TIME excuses designed to detour the subject into a Cul DeSac.
You would love "the Gods of Eden" by Bramley


[edit on 17-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

perhaps its not about just saying jesus in the moment of an abduction, but more about praying.
its not unlikely that aliens (if they exist in that form ) have a sense of spirituality , since they are described as far ´developed race´.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I would have to say this is a myth. The great John Lear said in one of his videos that he had spoken to a man who was abducted, and while there he saw a great many people being held there. He (the man) said that some were calling the name, Jesus, God, Allah, and so on. The Grey aliens said to them, "why call on them? there is only us out here." My own experiences were not tramatic, unless being in space and looking at Earth through a window that moved with my hand is tramatic. And being able to walk through a wall. And the aliens I have actually seen looked human as you or I do. This is what I know of on the subject, and it is third handed knowledge, take it with a grain of salt.

reply to post by autowrench

It is most likely a myth to those who don't know who this Man of Galilee was
or the work he performed.
In the Narrative,Jesus /Yeshua of Nazereth had/has the authority over All the
Evil spirits manifest in this world,casting out many that controlled people.
Jesus/Yeshua Is King of the Angels the scripture says,and had these benevolent human-looking beings assist him often.He will return to Earth to Ressurrect those who died faithful to him someday on clouds of Heaven with Great Power and Glory everyone of every nation will see and weep as for a First-born Son.
We as Believers in the Bible,and have experienced conversion/regeneration have the authority and power to cast-out demons.It's what the Master said.
The One who made all things on Heaven and Earth.

"No new idea is ever accepted by showing it's opponants their error;
but that they eventually die and are replaced with a new generation that's familiar with it."-Max Planke,Godfather of modern quantum physics

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by jritzmann

 

If the sample was pure magnesium,It wasn't a meteorite.
Even Iron Meteorites have trace minerals,metals like nickle.

The Roswell crash was in 1947,not `57
Your dismissal of the Roswell witnesses were not named,could you give us
the names of those who are"dropping like flies".

First, I said Magnesium exists in meteoric samples, and was not unknown by any stretch. Your "made" issue at the end again says this was manufactured, of which again there is no evidence of. Again, this was a case where material was sent to a reporter with a story, and no way to contact the witness (as I said, probably purposefully so) So there is no way to verify anything. In essence, there's no sign of "craft" here.
This was in response to this from you:

"Ubatuba ,brazil gave some good samples of parts of a Disc that exploded over
the beach in `52 or some year there.Not terrestrially made. "

I'm also well aware of when Roswell happened, I was correcting the Brazil year you stated from your '52 to the correct '57.

As far as what witnesses have been discredited? Plenty. From Kevin Randle's blog:
"Here’s the rub, of those cited in the report, Gerald Anderson, Glenn Dennis, and Jim Ragsdale, none was involved. Each told an interesting story, but those stories have been discredited."

Ref: "A Different Perspective"

Kevin has worked hard on Roswell, and frankly the idea that he'd expose witnesses who are faking says volumes to me about his ethics, as he stands to lose book sales from a story that is diminishing. But, he's an honorable man, and states the truth when he finds it. I've interviewed the man personally and he's a stand up guy. He's one of the few people in UFOlogy who will admit he was wrong about someone.

No, I don't dismiss Roswell as a crash of something. What I don't know. But I do think it's more than safe to say there's plenty of people cashing in: To the tune of 5 million a year, based on the Roswell story.
www.roadsideamerica.com...

Are people lying? Sure. Why? Because it's myth building for profit margins. Do you know who Julie Schuster is? She's the director of the Roswell UFO Museum, which has moved into bigger and bigger venues, and is now raising money for another move to this: Roswell Museum

Note the "millions" it is raising for this venture. Who's Julie Schuster? Walter Haut's daughter.

This is not only a UFO debated case - it's a money generating machine. I can't imagine why someone would lie...can you?

It's simply too far gone to try and gather meaning from it...what happened, what was it, was it a craft? We'll likely never know. It's been mucked over and capitalized on so bad at this point it's practically worthless. That's my opinion....some people find it solid. I don't.

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
Your approach to answering statements you believe are not factually correct or ficticious seems to be similar to the disinformation smear machine of a political party
and their action committees.

Funny. I relay the demonstrable facts after you:

-Pour out unfounded notions about virus being proof of extraterrestrials

-Claim someone made craft and it wasn't "us" which alludes that you know exactly every development project of all countries in black programs

-The statement "Man's RH factor has been linked to a green monkey, but I don't think so." is proof of....anything besides that you can have an opinion?

And I'm the one who's a disinformation "smear machine"? I could *very* easily say the same of you...but I won't because it's ridiculous.

Look, clearly we cannot have a discussion. Logic and fact seem lost here with you, and from what I can gather here you don't seem to comprehend or really even read what I'm saying (who said Roswell was 57??).

I mean I'm being really clear here. But, this discussion is relatively pointless, because everyone who doesn't share your view is a disgruntled UFOlogist bent on revenge or a disinformation agent. This is clearly a belief system for you. That's ok. I don't choose to believe anything. I'd rather know, and if I never know...that's the way it is...I'm not going to start grabbing any nonsense I like to support whatever I choose to believe this enigma is.

Plus, this is a serious deviation from the OP's topic, and for that ESB, you have my apologies.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by jritzmann

 

There is a cultural filter it goes through,but it gets clogged with Newsweek explanations
and TIME excuses designed to detour the subject into a Cul DeSac.
You would love "the Gods of Eden" by Bramley


[edit on 17-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

Case in point as to why we cannot have this conversation sir, or ma'am...that's what a cultural filter is. A cultural filter is what you're exposed to - such as Newsweek and other media, surroundings, art, music...that's culture.

You can't seem to understand my points here, so - we'll agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I believe, and want others to believe as well, that while some ETs are possibly hostile, those do not represent ALL ETs and we should not develop prejudices against ETs because of the actions of what is likely a minority of aliens visiting earth.

I forgot to highlight this earlier as I was leaving work...but this statement quoted above:

"I believe, and want others to believe as well"

This is a serious, serious issue. So, I wrote to you about that "same boat" thing...right? This is worse man. This is way worse to have said something like this.

You believe, and want others to believe what you do.

Who's that sound like to you?

I certainly respect that you want to look into this, but immediately there's an agenda that smells like you're ready to put your beliefs out there and that you want to make everyone believe it.

That's not investigation dude. That's religion.

You don't start investigation with wanting everyone to believe what you do. You are the very thing you seem to be arguing against.

Just think about that.

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I believe, and want others to believe as well, that while some ETs are possibly hostile, those do not represent ALL ETs and we should not develop prejudices against ETs because of the actions of what is likely a minority of aliens visiting earth.

I forgot to highlight this earlier as I was leaving work...but this statement quoted above:

"I believe, and want others to believe as well"

This is a serious, serious issue. So, I wrote to you about that "same boat" thing...right? This is worse man. This is way worse to have said something like this.

You believe, and want others to believe what you do.

Who's that sound like to you?

I certainly respect that you want to look into this, but immediately there's an agenda that smells like you're ready to put your beliefs out there and that you want to make everyone believe it.

That's not investigation dude. That's religion.

You don't start investigation with wanting everyone to believe what you do. You are the very thing you seem to be arguing against.

Just think about that.

There IS an agenda to what I write. EVERYONE who expresses an opinion is doing so with the thought that they may convince someone of their idea. There is nothing wrong with that. Contrary to your statement above, I do not want to "make" anyone believe what I do. I merely want to state my beliefs and if others are convinced of the same then great. FYI, there's no real point in expressing our views if we don't do so with the intent of convincing someone of their truth. What I am arguing against is religion attempting to explain everything unknown or not understood as demonic. I do want people to escape that dogmatic approach, so yes, I do want them to believe other than what is being taught. They don't have to accept my opinions, all I really hope to accomplish is to dispel yet another fraud perpetrated by religion.

Finally, the only serious issue I have here is wasting time defending how I wish to structure MY research and writing. If you wish to do it differently, go ahead, have at it. Don't attempt to direct how I write, however. If you wish to believe that my approach is religious, or dogmatic, or biased, please go ahead and do so. But I will write the way I please.

If I remember on the recent paracast episode with David Jacobs, they asked him if the "Jesus" thing worked:

He said "no"....and if it did work that easily wouldn't you think by now the word would be out by now and all abductions stopped?

www.theparacast.com...

My pet theory:
I thinka possibility is that the aliens realize a person is near their "limit" psychologically and start hearing these pleas and decide to either block the rest of the abduction from recollection or if lucky, end it. All I know is people get morphine for a reason...to kill the pain. The aliens may respond accordingly--if they feel empathy. Obviously others are better versed than myself in the subject, but I toss it out there as an alternative.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
"I believe, and want others to believe as well"

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I do not want to "make" anyone believe what I do.

Thank You.
The End.

reply to post by moocowman


yeshua ben yosef.
in english, joshua son of joseph.

or to be precise,
yeshua ben yahweh

[edit on 18-9-2009 by undo]

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I can't believe that there are still individuals not only talking about alien "abductions" but tying in the name "Jesus"! Doesn't the OP realize that "Jesus" is a mythical name? If your life depended on it you couldn't come up with any historical evidence that "Jesus" existed. Why should an alien, IF they were really abducting humas pay any attention to an abducted individual saying "Jesus"? That would only solicit a gufaw!