Abduction research -- The name "Jesus" -- If you have been abducted...

reply to post by Visiting ESB


This isn't a new concept by a long shot. For a little over a decade some experiencers have reported that calling on the aid of God has ceased experiences.

However to me, this does not qualify the "other" as demonic.

As much as people claim there is an "extraterrestrial" presence here on earth, the data of many experiencers does not fit that hypothesis. A flesh and blood "alien" culture coming here and interacting with any segment of the populace would inevitably leave behind forensic evidence.

To date, that has not happened. There is only an ever growing bulk of data that has one single constant - ambiguity. That, in and of itself is a clue, not to the origins of the "other", but to at least it's remedial workings.

You cannot begin to study the phenomena through reports because the human filter has already been applied. This is an experience, however everything from charlatans to out and out screwballs have fixed it into an ideology of some sort.

And you cannot study the phenomenon because it's ridiculously elusive. So, the question then becomes, what do you study.

You study the effects of the perceived phenomena and what seems to surround it. What are the circumstances of the people reporting the phenomena lives...forget the UFO/alien report - that's all well and good if you intend to add to the further growing body of ambiguous data. But, it's not really all that productive. It's been done. Where have we gotten with it?

Lemme answer that...no where. The "nuts and bolts" school of thought to alien abduction and UFOs is IMO dying a slow painful death.

But, study the people and take notice of the circumstances of their lives, and you'll see a pattern of anti-structure. Out of routine, disarray, chaos - the paranormal manifestations seem to love this.

As an example - some people move into a house and see ghosts when they renovate or do major construction. It's changing routine, destroying to rebuild. The construction throws the family in question into disarray as far as daily routine. It's anti-structural.

In fact, you'll find this throughout the paranormal studies...ghosts and so on, right down the line.

I'd start there. That will eventually lead you to why some people have had success at thwarting "alien abduction". However, you have to let go of preconceived notions that either fit or don't fit your idea of what this is all about. If you can truly do that, something will click for you about all this.

None of it insinuates that any of this is evil per se, but it's completely out of our ability to perceive it in many ways. The cultural filter is what you need to get through if you're to make any headway for yourself.





[edit on 16-9-2009 by jritzmann]

reply to post by MAJIC 12


The book of Enoch, not in the Bible but quoted in Jude clearly lays out that the fallen angels taught all of the hidden secret knowledge to early man...

Check it out yourself, you can find two translations here:

www.stevequayle.com...

reply to post by jritzmann

You say there is no forensic evidence of their presence.
Ubatuba ,brazil gave some good samples of parts of a Disc that exploded over
the beach in `52 or some year there.Not terrestrially made.
We are not sure what the source of Viruses are.
Man's RH factor has been linked to a green monkey, but I don't think so.
You may say the ships are not piloted by any crew,but someone made them and they aren't us.Sometimes they explode and crash all over the pasture.that's evidence of their
being here.Too many good proffessional military and civilians have seen the parts and the bodies to say it was memory contraction and tin foil that made the military threaten people's lives,raid ranches,destroy property,endanger livestock and detain a rancher
for a week so they could get every scrap.They paid fifty-dollars the month before to
a farmer in ohio for his balloon scrap,so whyshould Roswell be any different?

reply to post by Writer0429

Yes! We inherited the still/water purifier from them .(It has a good use and an alcoholic one too.)the use of stealth with mirrors in battle,shields of metal..It is advised by Jude
or Peter not to Slander Celestial beings so saying they are all Evil is premature and ignorant.The Coptic church preserved this book from the flames of Rome's pope.
Got it,Read it,Love it,Respect it with the same authority as Psalms.
(Just as the first century Christians did.


[edit on 16-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

[edit on 16-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

reply to post by MAJIC 12


Majic, with all respect, what information are you going on that alien abductions even take place? Everyone here on this site is aware of all the case studies but the phenomenon is not yet proven to be a reality. At least for someone like me who hasn't had an abduction anyhow. I'm of the belief that we collectively have to prove who and why is doing the abducting before we can make such outrageous claims as "Speaking Jesus will make it stop."
There are so many countless explanations from everywhere concerning the subject that it's silly to make such a claim. Some claim that aliens are the creator. That being said, why would they stop at the mention of Christ? It's just all way too general and gray to assume anything so pinpoint while the phenomenon itself is subject to severe scrutiny. I don't see how anyone can have a definitive answer one way or another.
I am not being cynical when I say that it makes me laugh. I'm being very serious. It seems completely illogical that an alien species would have any sort of respect for our beliefs considering some of the horror stories that I have read. Wouldn't a being with any sense of moral value ask the abductee prior to just taking? It just makes no sense to me. Are they really in the clear to do what they please until we say the magic words??

reply to post by spinalremain


There are no Abracadabra rubrics or Magic words to dispell a hateful
entity or alien or demon.The seven sons of sciva tried to cast out evil spirits
from a man by invoking the name of "Jesus whom Paul preaches".
the spirit said";Jesus we know,and Paul,But who are you? and he attacked and beat
the clothes off of them.-Acts of the apostles.
If you are not a follower/believer in Jesus it's all just nonsense to you,I'm sure.
If you are a believer,You inherit authority to cast out demons/evil spirits.,and his word to assist anyone who calls out his name.(In Any language.)The gates Of Hell Will Not Prevail Against Us..But is it Hell we are opposing?I say you cannot say for sure what or who the Aliens are but they should not be slandered by ignorance and lumped into the "demon" catagory. "Slander Not Celestial Beings"we are told,but Christians ignore
scripture that restrains animal instinct to call-out warnings of things different like the monkeys in the trees on National Geographic.
The Name Use defense works fine for believers(in Jesus,not Magic)So i'm not worried,but what does this have to do with Aliens?I'm not convinced ALL aliens
are evil or even aware of what false teeth are,so Im not judging them..yet.
"Enoch walked with the Elohim,and then one day he was no more because the Elohim took him."-Book of Enoch

[edit on 16-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

After having being "almost" abducted a year ago, i told my mother what had happened. She believing me and being a bit into the paranormal herself, asked some of her friends about what I had described. I was told next time it happened to call out to "master Jesus".

I may post up the experience soon. I wrote everything down.

reply to post by MAJIC 12


I understand your reluctance to view all "aliens" as being evil forces. The UFO community has been most reluctant to fully reveal the darker side of this phenomenon. It has been shown that early researchers just didn't report some more spiritual aspects of abduction testimonies.

I challenge you to check out the information from the CE 4 Research Group.

Link: www.alienresistance.org...

They have cataloged some interesting accounts and posted with permission some of them online.

Also check out Jim Wilhelmsen's work and book "Beyond Science Fiction". His research and interpretation of biblical translation going back to alternate meanings of greek and hebrew words and phrases have been quite revealing when done from a 21st century perspective instead of a 17th-20th century world view of most bible translations. I think if you approach his ideas with an open mind it will be revolutionize your point of view.

reply to post by spinalremain


Where your logic falls apart is the assumption that they do not place any value on our spiritual beliefs. Many accounts of abductees proves differently.

I challenge you to read some of them: www.alienresistance.org...

and judge for yourself.

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by The_Truth818

 

Do you believe in the existance of EVIL?

Of course i believe in evil. Not true evil but evil. I do believe people can do evil onto others. But that doesn't mean it comes from the devil. Just because evil exists doesn't mean its origins are demonic.

reply to post by Writer0429


Ok I read it. That website did not prove that my logic is weak. That website was written by a Christian who believes in God and alien abduction. Neither of which can be proven.

Maybe I have never been abducted because I wear a silver cross around my neck. The aliens respect my belief system huh. This really is funny as all hell to me. I'm sorry but I can't buy any of it. The name of the website is alienresistance for goodness sake! That's like trying to convince a Republican that Democrats views are superior by telling him to sign on to WWW.GOPsuxass.com. It's nothing but biased opinion. Where are the Satanic aliens anyway?
P.S. I loved the quotes from Battlestar Gallactica. Totally adds to the cridibility of the research. Very scientific and professional
[edit on 17-9-2009 by spinalremain]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by spinalremain]

reply to post by spinalremain


YOUR CRYPTOPROFANITY IS VERY SKILLED I SEE.

(I'll bet your perspective is from an evangelical viewpoint.
I'll bet your escatology includes a pre-tribulation "Rapture" too.)
Abduction?Goes on all the time,by humans on humans,humans on animals..aliens?
None of us can prove either way and must be evaluated by the
witness testimony/comparisons and subjective experience.
J.Vallee has for decades researched the paranormal aspects
of UFO encounters and the spiritual/multi-dimensional persective
often left out by the rationalists/"nuts and bolts" crowd.Yes,Advanced Technology when encountered by a far more primitive culture will seem like "Magic" to them.That's "science"..But I'm not buying the story that demon spirits are making freak bodies underground and possessing them to make saucers to fly so we can what,Believe in Life out there? what a waste of time.This is an example of an urban myth with no basis
in fact but the marks and emotional scars left on the people it effects.
I doubt spirits could successfully conduct genetic lab tests and metallergy.It would make a good Sci-Fi movie though.
(Read" Witnesses to Roswell" by Donald Schmitt and Tom Carey,and I'll give you a book report on the book you recommended to me.)

[edit on 17-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

reply to post by Visiting ESB



Actually, saying the name 'Jesus' does in fact work, but you must pronounce it in a hispanic tone ala 'Hay-zeus', or something to that effect as you would address a Mexican Citizen. I also heard it works for making threads disappear...

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
You say there is no forensic evidence of their presence.
Ubatuba ,brazil gave some good samples of parts of a Disc that exploded over
the beach in `52 or some year there.Not terrestrially made.

I'm assuming you mean the 1957 (not 52) alleged Ubatuba Brazil crash. The findings were that the material was magnesium, not "unknown". The material was pure, and magnesium exists in meteoric samples. The sample recovered was sent to a reporter, with no way of contacting the alleged witness, as the signature was unreadable (and probably purposefully so. No conrete anything as far as "craft debris" or even close. If it were, we'd not be discussing the subject in the way we do. It'd be a given...we'd have evidence of tangible reality, and we do not.

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
We are not sure what the source of Viruses are.

That's a really huge leap, and certainly a very far stretch from proof of extraterrestrial visitation.

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
Man's RH factor has been linked to a green monkey, but I don't think so.

Again, not to be mean or anything, but so what. Again, there are gaps in human development and growth, but that doesn't completely point to or support your theory here. And, are you a research scientist in evolution?

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
You may say the ships are not piloted by any crew,but someone made them and they aren't us.Sometimes they explode and crash all over the pasture.that's evidence of their
being here.

Again, there hasn't been any direct evidence - or - direct unambiguous evidence. To say "someone made them and they aren't us" implies you have full knowledge of classified defense programs and black projects, of which I have serious doubts. You don't know what has been developed, and for anyone to say "we don't have technology like that" is just blowing hot air. We have no idea what has been or is being developed. It's that simple.

Originally posted by MAJIC 12
Too many good proffessional military and civilians have seen the parts and the bodies to say it was memory contraction and tin foil that made the military threaten people's lives,raid ranches,destroy property,endanger livestock and detain a rancher
for a week so they could get every scrap.They paid fifty-dollars the month before to
a farmer in ohio for his balloon scrap,so whyshould Roswell be any different?

And Roswell witnesses continue to drop like flies as people like Kevin Randle investigate long standing claims. There are several aspects and issues about Roswell that deal more in mythmaking and profit margins. It may have been an interesting case, but it's too far muddled to really retain anything useful from it. There has been btw, no direct evidence of Roswell's craft whatsoever. Again, had that happened, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This would be something everyone would know.

Again, I don't doubt the presence of the "other", and if you know what to examine rather than buy into the lore...there's good interesting data out there.

reply to post by jritzmann

Nothing Official,nothing confirmed Here.
thanks for establishing a "hot air" limit to this web site.
It doesn't take much to see the lies told by the Air Farce.
I don't think we would test fly over houses in `Vegas.
You must be all-knowing to say it's speculation.Have fun ,Eddie.
Kevin Randle is still trying to smear everyone ufo involved since his break-up with
Don Schmitt years ago.He now writes books about other people's specialty.
It's all who you trust and nobody is going to change anyone's beliefs or loyalty
over a snot-post on line. This a waste of time chatting with others who have nothing to offer but denial.I'm nausiated by weak-kneed polititians and those who support their
obfuscation with more denials.
IF these ships exist and I believe they do,they should not be acknowledged by officials and you have done a splendid Job of helping to dispel interest in the posibility of their
presence .Your Check Is In The Mail. Thank You.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by MAJIC 12]

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Question regarding your study -

When you compile the results from those abductees that shouted 'Jesus' versus those that didn't, in order to determine whether or not it actually stops/prevents the abduction, how are you (or are you) going to determine the legitimacy of the claims of the abductees themselves.

In other words, in order to determine whether or not saying 'Jesus' is effective, you would need to use credible abduction stories, no? I'm curious as to how you are determining which abductions actually happened and which ones didn't.

Hope that makes sense.

Ultimately, I would like to contact the abductee by phone or email and engage in some sort of dialogue. I can get a better sense of who they are and whether they are legit. However, most people will not open up to that possibility and, unfortunately, I am limited in how much I can delve into their credibility.

The CE4 website (www.ce4research.com), which is a primary purveyor of the myth, claims:

"The following work is the culmination of 15 years of Alien Abduction and UFO research by a group of researchers called CE4 Research Group. These researchers took on one piece of the UFO puzzle as a research project. They have done honest research into this strange and unusual phenomenon. They first started with a hypothesis, collected the data and then attempted to share their findings. The research group has to date worked with over 350 so called cases of the Alien Abduction Experience.

Seeing that there seemed to be a spiritual nature to the Alien Abduction experience, they posed the question, “are Christians being abducted by Aliens”?

The research showed that some people professing to be Christians were indeed reporting that they had encountered this experience in their lives. The same experience that people of all faiths or no faith had been reporting over the many years of UFO research. Research polls through the years have shown that upwards of 5 million people may have experienced some form of this phenomenon.

During the investigations into the experiencers case testimonies, CE4 Research Group found something really remarkable. They found that some of these Christian Alien Abduction experiencers had been able to stop or even terminate the experience from their lives."

So, it appears after reviewing the site that it took Christians 15 years to accumulate 350 stories. They are simply accounts of abductions forwarded to ce4 much as the testimonies I am looking for here. I didn't find anything on the site to explain exactly how their research was conducted, but it appears they didn't even try to contact these people to determine the validity of the story. I'm presuming that most of it was internet-based, much as what I am trying to do. In short, I would like to provide a more solid basis for what I find than what CE4 has provided. It would strengthen the case I am trying to make but I will likely have to settle for whatever I can cull from the responses here.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by Visiting ESB]

Originally posted by Writer0429
reply to post by spinalremain

 

Where your logic falls apart is the assumption that they do not place any value on our spiritual beliefs. Many accounts of abductees proves differently.

I challenge you to read some of them: www.alienresistance.org...

and judge for yourself.

Since I believe Christianity is a fraud, like other religions, I think any belief connected to it is a fraud as well. The website you refer us to is deep into the Christian belief system and not open to other ideas or possibilities. They are, as is sometimes said, stuck in the mud (of their dogma). It is unfortunate that Christianity is using abductions as a launching point to keep people spiritually ignorant when such events should actually open our minds to the fact that we really know nothing compared to what there is to know. It is a perfect example of human ignorance and fear at its finest.

i had a podcast radio show for awhile with john lear, called ancient future radio. my last interview was with guy malone, the guy from alienresistance.org. i'm a christian and so is he, but the conversation was really quite interesting. we discussed various things, such as the alien abduction experience and how it fits into biblical texts and hebrew pseudopigrapha and his personal abductions:
you can hear it here (it's a winamp file)
www.thestargates.com...

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by MAJIC 12

 

Majic, with all respect, what information are you going on that alien abductions even take place? Everyone here on this site is aware of all the case studies but the phenomenon is not yet proven to be a reality. At least for someone like me who hasn't had an abduction anyhow. I'm of the belief that we collectively have to prove who and why is doing the abducting before we can make such outrageous claims as "Speaking Jesus will make it stop."
There are so many countless explanations from everywhere concerning the subject that it's silly to make such a claim. Some claim that aliens are the creator. That being said, why would they stop at the mention of Christ? It's just all way too general and gray to assume anything so pinpoint while the phenomenon itself is subject to severe scrutiny. I don't see how anyone can have a definitive answer one way or another.
I am not being cynical when I say that it makes me laugh. I'm being very serious. It seems completely illogical that an alien species would have any sort of respect for our beliefs considering some of the horror stories that I have read. Wouldn't a being with any sense of moral value ask the abductee prior to just taking? It just makes no sense to me. Are they really in the clear to do what they please until we say the magic words??

A problem with the "name of Jesus" nonsense is that the presumption is that there is only one type of alien. The fact is, in a limitless universe where our knowledge of physics is laughable and near-zero on the scale of what there is to know, there is likely to be a limitless number of alien species at various states of advancement. The grays are only a drop in the bucket and although they are invasive, perhaps even hostile, they aren't demonic or fallen angels. Such superstition halts our spiritual growth.

reply to post by MAJIC 12


Well. Good luck with all...that.

I'm not sure exactly how many times I have to say that this isn't a question of the reality of visitors, it's a question of dropping belief systems and preconceived notions for real work. But there, I just said it again.

If you're content to apply your line of reasoning to a legitimate discussion, then you have to be aware of others who treat the subject matter much differently and perhaps more critically than you do.

Make note that, you avoided all argument to the response to your assertions. People know that's a sign of a seriously weak argument, and even weaker "data".

Resorting to the ridiculous notion that I'm some paid debunker/agent does nothing but make you look foolish. It's disguised as an accusation, but reads more like some delusional personal attack.

This in the end, gives no weight to your arguments or assertions if that's the first place you go when presented with the documented facts (such as the 57 "crash", or the notion that you are aware of every black budgeted project the Governments of the world have or are developing).

In the grand scheme of things, you need the be adequately armed when you talk about proof. Because one day, you're going to cross horns with a serious fundamentalist debunker (who won't refer to current data or make a joke of the whole subject). They are easy to deal with if you have your data straight, and make critical observations. You can easily make a blubbering moron out of them...because they don't actually know anything.

If not, he'll handily dispatch you, and in turn add to the growing public notion that all UFO interested individuals are doe-eyed believers without an ounce of common sense or the ability to critically examine the anomaly.

"This a waste of time chatting with others who have nothing to offer but denial."

I could not possibly agree more.