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Abduction research -- The name "Jesus" -- If you have been abducted...

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posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by jritzmann
 

I'm understanding your viewpoint more clearly as I read between the toxic attitude;
using words like "revenge" and" disgrundled".
calm yourself pal, this is just clarification on your part, and information to me.


It ought to be, for you. If I seem agitated, it because I'm having a conversation with someone who makes statements and when called on those, turns them around as if I said them. "Revenge" and "Disgruntled" comes from your statement:

"Kevin Randle is still trying to smear everyone ufo involved since his break-up with Don Schmitt years ago."

That's the portrait you paint of Randle, vengeful and disgruntled. I'm not the one throwing out unfounded nonsense.

I assure you, I'm quite calm...you're not quite enough to get me excited.


Originally posted by MAJIC 12
The sample was "Pure" magnesium.delassified memo from washington speculated it could have been part of a "hydro-magnetodynamic drive"(a electric catepillar submersible).
Meteorites are not "pure" anything.


No kidding. I wear a meteorite sample around my neck every day. I said magnesium is contained in meteoric samples and on earth -YOU are the one who deemed it "not made here". Your statement, not mine. There's nothing extraterrestrial about it - unless you count that it's also in meteorites with other minerals. Your contention of a "craft" crashing and recovered items "not from here" holds NO water. This is the real world, not your idealized one that provides you proof for every belief.


Originally posted by MAJIC 12
The four Roswell liars exposed,were put foward first by Randle.(Have You read:" Witnesses to Roswell? By Schmitt?)"


Oh, you mean the Schmitt, the guy who dumped his own credibility years ago when he was flat out caught lying about his own career and education? Who lied to his research partner like everyone else?

And now, true to form in the UFOlogy world, Schmitt is back on the scene and speaking, writing - and people actually put stock in him. C'mon man....seriously. Not ONE word do I put an ounce of faith in, that comes out of his mouth.

You do? Not surprising, I have to say.

But that's testament to how short sighted UFOlogy is.

But, whatever...this conversation just gets more absurd and it's derailing the OP, so if you need anything further contact me at the link in my sig.


[edit on 18-9-2009 by jritzmann]




posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 

Tacitus was not mythical or ficticious,nor was Josephus.You can deny they had lived and wrote but you are the one ignoring history.
Tacitus,Josephus,..there are others of historical significance that were involved,and others
with archeological evidence proving their existance;Herod the Great,Pontius Pilate,who interviewed Jesus of Nazereth..(I've been to the theater he had Herod build at Caesaria,Israel.(Long Live her State,and Flag.)
I know another scattered people of faith,who's history of persecution is also
in question.Many people today say they were never close to being exterminated by
ANY State,regime or Reich.That wasn't too long ago.


"Those Who Don't Learn From The Past Are Doomed To Repeat It."



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


Good book to read is "Evidence that demands a verdict" by Josh McDowell
He has a list of Historians (non-biblical) who mention or speak in detail of the
"crucified Jesus whom his followers call Christ".etc
None of these historians were contemporary to the same time, but came years
later.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Visiting ESB
 



Some jokers in Paul's day attemped to deliver a demonized man

"in the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches."

The demons cried out . . .

"Jesus I know and Paul I know--who . . . are you?"

and promptly set upon him and tore them to pieces or at least scared them quite severely, IIRC.

There does seem to need to be, at least in many, if not most cases

--either an authentic relationship with Jesus as Lord

--or at least a past such

--or at least a genuine yearning, openness for such.

Folks in covert or overt rebellion against Jesus' Lordship do not seem to be able to call upon His assistance for much of anything except perhaps assistance in confessing, repenting and believing in Him.

Also, your post seems to make it sound like there's an abundance (percentage-wise) of cases where the attempted application of the Name/Blood of Jesus did not alter an abduction or prevent it or stop it.

That is evidently not the case in terms of Guy Malone's research presented at

www.ANCIENTofDAYS.net...

Nor does it appear to be the case from his extensive research with ALL the famous researchers.

His evidence indicates it's a very small minority of the cases where Jesus' Name was not effective regarding abductions.

Another researcher affiliated with Guy recently reported on more than 300 cases. IIRC, only in a literal handful of the cases out of that 300+ cases did the Name of Jesus not prove to be powerful. And in each of those cases, there was a problem with their relationship with Jesus.

It seems to me your post also characterized, describes, depicts a rather strongly biased opinion, perspective against the facts in the evidence Guy and his associate have compiled.

That's not very impressive.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


Good book to read is "Evidence that demands a verdict" by Josh McDowell
He has a list of Historians (non-biblical) who mention or speak in detail of the
"crucified Jesus whom his followers call Christ".etc
None of these historians were contemporary to the same time, but came years
later.


DragonriderGal didn't make that post, I did. And I read that book years ago, prompted me to investigate its claims further and I wound up concluding that Christianity is a fraud. The historians you mention, again, did come years later but were simply repeating stories that were contemporary to the times of the first christians. They never researched the veracity of the story of Jesus but only parroted the myth that had grown over many years.

Besides, this is getting way off topic.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Visiting ESB
 



Some jokers in Paul's day attemped to deliver a demonized man

"in the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches."

The demons cried out . . .

"Jesus I know and Paul I know--who . . . are you?"

and promptly set upon him and tore them to pieces or at least scared them quite severely, IIRC.

There does seem to need to be, at least in many, if not most cases

--either an authentic relationship with Jesus as Lord

--or at least a past such

--or at least a genuine yearning, openness for such.

Folks in covert or overt rebellion against Jesus' Lordship do not seem to be able to call upon His assistance for much of anything except perhaps assistance in confessing, repenting and believing in Him.

Also, your post seems to make it sound like there's an abundance (percentage-wise) of cases where the attempted application of the Name/Blood of Jesus did not alter an abduction or prevent it or stop it.

That is evidently not the case in terms of Guy Malone's research presented at

www.ANCIENTofDAYS.net...

Nor does it appear to be the case from his extensive research with ALL the famous researchers.

His evidence indicates it's a very small minority of the cases where Jesus' Name was not effective regarding abductions.

Another researcher affiliated with Guy recently reported on more than 300 cases. IIRC, only in a literal handful of the cases out of that 300+ cases did the Name of Jesus not prove to be powerful. And in each of those cases, there was a problem with their relationship with Jesus.

It seems to me your post also characterized, describes, depicts a rather strongly biased opinion, perspective against the facts in the evidence Guy and his associate have compiled.

That's not very impressive.



There are millions of abductions. 300 accounts supporting the Christian dogma isn't convincing. It may even be suspect: no one can know if these were fictional or true. We have to take their word for it. That is the same constraint I'm under. The Christian (strongly biased) viewpoint of Malone just indicates that he sought/seeks the experiences of Christians.

Further, we don't know how many stories he rejected and hasn't reported on that don't prop up his viewpoint. It seems incredibly convenient and all too typical of Christians to say that some prayers didn't work because of a defect in that person's relationship with Jesus. I'm seeking the experience of anyone, regardless of their professed religion. Mr. Malone and company have been pushing this fear-based agenda for years. My only goal is to dispel, in whatever way possible, such a falsehood from becoming viewed as truth.

And, frankly, I will say this as well. Every forum on the internet, that I know of, allows Christians to spout off about their silly "relationship" with their imaginary friend, Jesus. You (collectively) push that crap on us constantly. Yet, if one tries to access a Christian forum and state the belief, with evidence, that Jesus never existed, that person is banned. What a collection of mind-numbed lemmings. If you wish to continue your life living in fear of non-existent big, bad spooky demons and fallen angels, please do so. You're only hindering your ability to grow spiritually.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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I would say, imo, that it all pans down to your faith & relationship with The Supreme Father.

There are certain routines, passages etc that are usually followed where there is oppression of any kind involving evil entities, which is more than just saying Jesus. I do believe those whom have a strong relationship with The Father "beat" these aliens with faith alone, i mean aliens read minds.

If aliens & demons are the same thing, then for us who do believe in Christ know that many made a split when feeling His presence back in the day. We needn't worry about any evil or anything that ain't part of Him.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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What I find to be funny is...most abductions stories talk of an unwilling thing, where the person is taken against their will. I have been taken several times to my concious knowledge, and all were a very pleasant experience. I was spoken to (in my head) in a respectful manner, my questions, for the most part, were answered, and I found myself in my own bed after it was over. I never felt any fear, and as a matter of fact, on one occasion I begged to be taken home with them, and not back to Earth. Everyone I have spoken to, or read about, say they were taken against their will. what does this mean, do you all think?
It really puzzles me when I get to thinking about it.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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Personally, I believe this whole invoking Jesus to avoid abduction by ETs is a myth. It would make sense if ETs were demons and then probably only if you happen on a weak demon. And even if ETs are around for thousands of years, they would know who Jesus was and what he means to Christians, but why should they respect him? Chances are, if they are religious themselves, they would believe that their God would be stronger than any other god, including Jesus. If they are not religious, they would respect Jesus even less. How can you respect someone, if you believe he never existed in the first place. Which leaves one more possibility that the ETs are religious and they in fact worship the same Jesus as we do, but would they abduct people if that was the case?



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman

Check out Lawrence Gardiners' ,"Lost Secret Of The sacred Ark" you may be intrigued, I'd lend you my copy but your a bit far away lol.


Lawrence Gardner cannot be used as a historical reference since he doesn't write about history. He speculates: "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" is Gardner's account of the famous Ark of the Covenant." No one knows anything about such an ark whether it was real or not or if it was real what happened to it. Many books and TV documentaries have been written and shown and none of them have any historical significance.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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While the personages you mention may have existed, much is credited to them which is modern interporlation. Again, Jesus is not a historical figure since there is nothing in history about him during his alleged time. What there is came too many years after his alleged existence and the material cannot be trusted. Even what is credited to Josephus is acknowledged to be interpolated. Stick to REAL history, you'll be on safe ground.



Originally posted by MAJIC 12
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 

Tacitus was not mythical or ficticious,nor was Josephus.You can deny they had lived and wrote but you are the one ignoring history.
Tacitus,Josephus,..there are others of historical significance that were involved,and others
with archeological evidence proving their existance;Herod the Great,Pontius Pilate,who interviewed Jesus of Nazereth..(I've been to the theater he had Herod build at Caesaria,Israel.(Long Live her State,and Flag.)
I know another scattered people of faith,who's history of persecution is also
in question.Many people today say they were never close to being exterminated by
ANY State,regime or Reich.That wasn't too long ago.


"Those Who Don't Learn From The Past Are Doomed To Repeat It."



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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C'mon, it's 2009! It's time to realize that saying Jesus in any concept is the same as saying "hamburger"! Say this 3 times and call me in the morning: Mental conditioning results in beliefs. When you "believe" you are simply acting as a slave to the concept you believe in, nothing to do with reality.


Originally posted by qonone
I would say, imo, that it all pans down to your faith & relationship with The Supreme Father.

There are certain routines, passages etc that are usually followed where there is oppression of any kind involving evil entities, which is more than just saying Jesus. I do believe those whom have a strong relationship with The Father "beat" these aliens with faith alone, i mean aliens read minds.

If aliens & demons are the same thing, then for us who do believe in Christ know that many made a split when feeling His presence back in the day. We needn't worry about any evil or anything that ain't part of Him.






posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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You mean millions of ALLEGED abductions since there is no evidence even for a single one. Someone saying they were abducted does not make it so. Anything supporting the "Christian dogma" (whatever THAT is) makes such reports even more meaningless. As you can tell I don't accept any reports of alien abductions until someone can provide irrefutable evidence and not hearsay.

If anyone here on ATS claims to have been abducted, you better have more than a nightmare to relate.


Originally posted by Visiting ESB
reply to Originally posted by BO XIAN
There are millions of abductions. 300 accounts supporting the Christian dogma isn't convincing. It may even be suspect: no one can know if these were fictional or true. We have to take their word for it.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
You mean millions of ALLEGED abductions since there is no evidence even for a single one. Someone saying they were abducted does not make it so. Anything supporting the "Christian dogma" (whatever THAT is) makes such reports even more meaningless. As you can tell I don't accept any reports of alien abductions until someone can provide irrefutable evidence and not hearsay.

If anyone here on ATS claims to have been abducted, you better have more than a nightmare to relate.




As I've said earlier in this thread, my intent is not to prove the fact of alien abductions, existence of UFOs, etc. That is not the scope of my effort. There are many threads on ATS addressing that issue, but this isn't one of them.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by Visiting ESB]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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there is more than one explanation for why invoking jesus' name during abductions may work for some people, besides the issues of faith, visualization and so forth. for example, if we are talking about highly advanced lifeforms, from technologically advanced civilizations, the ability to monitor and provide assistance in abduction scenarios would be a matter of technology. you would need to think outside the human experience at least enough to realize that it's not outside the realm of possibilites.

a single quantum computer could hold all the information on the internet today, including every website, program and data stream. and it could access any single piece of data so quickly, that computations such as searches for related info on key words, would be instant no matter how big the search parameters were.

shortsightedness has always been the problem with the field of science, where religion is concerned. for example, they claimed the ancient texts of the various people from around the world, couldn't possibly be true because the data contained within them, defied known science. KNOWN science. they claimed women couldn 't be impregnated any other way than sexual congress. now we have artificial insemination. that people could not fly in the sky. now we not only fly in the sky, we fly to other planets/moons.

this area will remain the venue of shortsighted scientific argument until such time as every single reference to SUPERnatural events, is easily done or defined with KNOWN science. by then, it won't matter whether it was wrong or not, however, as anyone who ever had the foresight to consider it possible to begin with, will have been weeded out of the population by the really "smart" people.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by undo]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Good to see you back on the forum dropping logic bombs JR! Always a pleasure reading your posts man! Don't stay away so long next time mate!

IRM



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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During the period when my experiences were quite heavy ( I refuse to call myself an Abductee because it makes me feel like I'm calling myself a Victim... maybe I felt like one then but certainly not now.) I would have to say that I never once thought of using the name Jesus but rather quite of slew of curses and unintelligible things went through my head as I couldn't speak at all, let alone move... except my eyes. I could also barely catch my breath but I assume that was due to the fear i was experiencing at the time.
My Mother and Grandmother blessed my room during that time thinking it was all the Heavy metal music that I listened to. For what it's worth... my experiences continued till either they stopped or I'm oblivious to it all now. Sometimes I get the feeling they are coming back but I haven't experienced anything like when I was a teen.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Numb2itall]

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Numb2itall]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by moocowman

Check out Lawrence Gardiners' ,"Lost Secret Of The sacred Ark" you may be intrigued, I'd lend you my copy but your a bit far away lol.


Lawrence Gardner cannot be used as a historical reference since he doesn't write about history. He speculates: "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" is Gardner's account of the famous Ark of the Covenant." No one knows anything about such an ark whether it was real or not or if it was real what happened to it. Many books and TV documentaries have been written and shown and none of them have any historical significance.


Pardon me dude but I did not put Gardiner forward as historical reference but as a point of interest. Indeed gardeners work is theoretical but we have to bare in mind that the subject matter ie jesus , Yahweh the bible and all that are not backed up by evidence anyway.

So in response to your accusation of speculation then referenses to jesus and the contents of the bibles are
pure speculation anyway.
Thank you anyway for informing me of what I am already aware of.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


i watched the entire torchwood series, at least what was available. i have a few comments to make on it. there a thread around here on the topic?


as regards the topic of jesus' authenticity.


well here's the thing. at the time when the early church was forming, there was no catholic church, unless you mean to say that paul's epistles were to catholics?

for at least 1000 years, most people couldn't read and most churches had only 1 bible, it being copied by hand and chained to the wall so no one could steal it. church services were taught in latin, which many of the nations of the holy roman empire, did not understand, read or write. the rest of the rules were typically papal decrees and based on things like rosary (not in the bible), hail marys (not in the bible), veneration of statuary (not in the bible), fish on friday (not in the bible), sunday worship (not in the bible), christmas on dec. 25th (not in the bible), and so on. in effect, the teaching was primarily papal based not bible based. my question then is:

why go to all the trouble to create a fictitious entity named jesus, make sure prophecies were scattered all through out the old testament and even the book of 1 enoch, foretelling his birth, death and resurrection? the info in the book of 1 enoch was later verified to be pre-holy roman empire, as a copy of it was found in its original language, in the dead sea scrolls.

furthermore, if the intent was to teach the then "fictitious" story of jesus, why didn't they teach what it said instead of what the popes said? they didn't make him up, they didn't need to. they just needed to be able control it, so they took it over and made it the state religion, stuck the writings in the basement chained to the wall, taught it in only one language and said the same thing over and over again........in latin.

even more perplexing is how you could think that wonderful man yeshua, came from the imagination of the guys who ran a huge roman war machine.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Do not tell anyone to refrain from saying the word JESUS if it fills them with strength confidence and resolve,you can say the word LUCIFER if you choose ,and if it provides you with the emotional spark to light the internal emotional INFERNO YOU UNKNOWINGLY BUT NATURALLY POSESS AS A HUMAN BEING,then it is the right thing to say.

I have been abducted,and was able to control some of the events by "saying"in another way the same thing that a religous person would be saying when they invoke the strength they feel simply by saying the name Jesus.

Our emotions are incredibly powerful if we direct and focus them,they are actually PHYSICAL WEAPONS EXACTLY LIKE A DOLPHINS OR A WHALES SONIC BOOM THAT IS USED TO STUN ITS PREY.

You have to live through an event and learn the skills to understand.Check out Canadian abducted by humans in blue uniforms.Its some of my story,it might help some people out.

Also,because I glimpsed biblical references earlier,the bible explains our creation exactly as it happened.We were planted here.We are a resource.The bible was an instruction book,NOT A RELIGOUS DOCUMENT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.Adam was a primate who was geneticly enhanced and Eve was cloned from Adam for Genetic reason ,then they were BRED as if they were animals.We were BRED LIKE ANIMALS.

Dont worry,our "creators"are Human just like us.We are a planet of humans that was created to be a resource in a galactic war our "brothers"-"creators"-"gods"-are involved in.We have a destiny alright and it is staring us in the face.

Abductions are real,and you should do everything in your power to FIGHT TO MAKE THEM STOP OR TO MAKE THEM AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE.

If the abduction is not BAD IN NATURE,in other words YES there are enemies that exist that are out to hurt us,if its not bad and you fight with all of your strength YOU WILL BE COMMUNICATED WITH.



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