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Would You Sacrifice Your Loved Ones, If They Might Get You Killed, Or Would Be Used Against You?

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posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas


Selfishness can be based on perception though.

What if they thought your choice was selfish?

Survival is important, on this I can agree, but what of the survival of the family unit?


This is something that should be discussed, and I have with my significant other, who suffers from MS, and can't walk for long periods of time, even if it is just in the grocery store. He would want me to survive knowing he wouldn't, and I the same.

I understand your thought on perception, I think, because if truth be known, I don't think anybody knows for sure what they will do, until confronted in a situation.

A question for you. If you were with a group of people (relatives) in a bad fire where there was only one exit, would you try to get them all out, or would you be stepping over all of them to get to the one exit, knowing that not everyone would not make it out?

I do believe self preservation comes to the forefront in some situations, no matter who you are with.

Survival of the family unit is very important, but if only 1 or a few can go on to live, leaving a few behind, then that is better than all of them parishing.



If I were in the situation you outlined, I would first assess whether there really was only one exit, and if that were true, I would try to get everyone out, before me.

Not everyone can make the choices I would make, the same goes for you.

And, I can see your point with you having discussed it with your significant other.

I was only pointing out that selfishness is based upon perspective, not saying you were selfish.

I would rather die knowing I saved everyone else, than to live knowing I saved no one, or had to choose one over another.




posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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There's a lot of variables to consider here. Too many to formulate a canned response to this question.

Would I walk away? Depends...

would I stay? Depends...

Hell, it all depends on the situation at hand.

I would definitely split up, if it meant me and my wife (for example) both stood a better chance of survival individually.

If I new "they" were coming only for me, and weren't concerned with my family, then I'd go in that situation too.

However, if I thought that they might, as you suggest, use my family against me, perhaps to get me to turn myself in, then I probably would not, but rather stand and fight. Again, it depends on how I suspect they might be used against me. If I thought that there was a possibility they'd be tortured, or even just imprisoned, I'd attempt to flee together. If that were not possible, I'd stay and fight.

Would I ditch my wife to save myself? No. Either she lives, or we die together.

Would I ditch my wife to save my children? Yes. She'd off me herself if I didn't.

We've got plans in place in case our immediate family becomes separated in a situation X. We've got primary, secondary and tertiary locations for regrouping, even coded responses and verification codes for communication under distress. So if it just meant splitting up to escape an immediate threat, we'd go for it. Knowing without a doubt I'd never see them again is another matter. The only scenario in which I would leave my wife behind, knowing I'd never see her again, would be if it was the only way to save my children.

Again, there's too many variables to really be able to address the question accurately. One of those questions you can't really answer until you're actually in the situation.

For example, if we're talking about a couple of street thugs holding my wife and kids hostage, demanding money or something, and I happened to be out back when they arrived, I'd probably sneak away for a few minutes in order to come back and properly riddle them with bullets in a way that minimizes risk to the family. I would not however simply abandon them.

On the other hand, if it's a battalion of US military personnel, under martial law, going door to door offing everyone who didn't get a swine vaccination, things would be different. Escape from the hood with a wife and two small children isn't likely. Escape on my own is probably doable, but I'd never consider it. I'd stand and fight were I was, working with the time and resources I had right then and there.

Now, if my wife were wounded, or otherwise incapacitated, and the enemy was approaching, we'd both accept that she would be captured or killed, because I've got to get the kids out.

There are a lot of loved ones, that might get left behind for one reason or another, but my kids are not one of them. There are no circumstances under which I would ever leave my kids to be captured or killed.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Unit541
 


Unit451, long time no see, and a well thought out response as well.

I agree with you on many of the variables you pointed out there.

While I am a single man, the discussion I was having was pertaining to a previous girlfriend, and as well as to different girlfriends I have had in the past.

Truly, I do believe the situation dictates tactics, plain and simple.

One girlfriend I had would have gotten me killed because she had no Earthly clue about life in general, let alone survival, this means I would have to either kick her butt in gear or slow down constantly.

A different girlfriend would have been bitching and complaining the whole time, I would have left her to spare my ears, and knowing they would have avoided her because of her negativity and spite in her heart which had nothing to do with me.

The third girlfriend, well, I know the choice she would have suggested, and I have a problem with my girlfriend doing that to save me and it consisted of kneepads, and her usage of them.

This is only three of the different girlfriends I have had and I have not been married, yet, although I have been engaged twice.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 



I was just curious to see what the author of the thread might do in a situation like that. For me it depends on what's going on, but I know I couldn't sacrifice them, but I would die my self to protect them at all cost. At least my death would not have been in vain.



-Gala-



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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I don't think I would sacrifice a loved one if they would get me killed or could be used against me.

I base this answer on what happens in my every day life. I have my dog and in the current economic climate he is an 'unnecessary expense' if you look at the situation purely from a financial point of view.

I could 'sacrifice' him to make my money stretch further and possibly safeguard against me eventually starving in my old age. But I won't do that. I love him and he enriches my life.

The other day I had a conversation with my housemate - he goes to Town quite often and I am in the house alone with the dog.

In my bedroom is a cupboard under the eaves with a lock on the inside. My h/m suggested that I should always have my mobile phone with me in case of an emergency and that I should be prepared to lock myself in the cupboard. My first thought was 'but what about the dog?'. I couldn't lock myself in safety and leave him downstairs to be in danger. I'd rather take the poker up to my room and be prepared to come down and knock seven bells out of anyone who tried to harm him.

Easy to say, but I hope I would stick to that if ever I was tested.

If, on the other hand the shtf, I know my dog would be in danger from predators (hungry people). If I had to, I'd rather see him off myself to save him from suffering.

What if he could get me killed so after that I wouldn't be there to protect him? I'd hate to leave him to suffer.

If he could get me killed but there was a guarantee that he'd be ok I wouldn't begrudge him.

What's that expression about our loved ones being hostages to fortune? As long as we have people we love, then we are vulnerable. We are brave in our decision to become close to others and to love them.

I take the risk because I know how empty my life would be if I was alone, we all do. But I wouldn't want to see anyone suffer because of their association with me. So I hope I'd always do the decent thing, even if it was to my detriment.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Would You Sacrifice Your Loved Ones, If They Might Get You Killed, Or Would Be Used Against You?


no i would not. and in that situation, i know i did not.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Gala-Kemen
 


Of course.


I have done many of these types of threads and I usually outline a scenario.

This is actually one of my smaller ones like this, I might post a few of the other thread links here.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by berenike
 


My friend, who originally inspired this thread because of our conversation would like you.

A pet to me is something special, I am an animal person, I prefer cats over dogs however.

This is only because I am an independent spirit and love my freedom.

Your reply was well thought and much appreciated.

Sacrificing loved ones is not a choice I would ever want to make.

As I have previously stated, situation dictates tactics, tactics dictates outcome, outcome dictates survival.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by soul of integrity
 


Thank you for your reply.

I like your integrity quote from your signature.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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i'm walking..


anyways, actually i even had a dream (2012 related or something like that i think), when i made it to the ship, but some of my family was late and some was thrown out , so i was there on my own

if i would have waited for my sister (in that particular situation), i would have been late to the boat

ship was made of steel, looks like this (with no balloons) www.msc.navy.mil... , extremely windy

and the name of the ship was wird - 'World Court' or 'One World Court' or something

[edit on 11-9-2009 by angelx666]



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by angelx666
 


That's an interesting dream you had.

World Court? Interesting the name of your ship was that for sure.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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There are always options available, even if they don't hit you at the moment.

After all, your qualification question was if they "MIGHT" get you killed.

Any group too large to move undetected can be broken up in smaller groups and carefully led.

History is rich with examples of groups, some groups with scores or even hundreds of members who have evaded masses of dedicated enemies.

For slower, injured, or disabled family members, movement will simply be adapted to meet the conditions of the moment.

This is when you use your head for something besides scratching.

Diversions, misdirections, slow up pursuit with booby traps. On and on, indirect tactics are as numerous as the stars.

The young, normally noisy and rowdy will quickly adapt, and sense the seriousness of their situation.

Unless a family member is on life support, no such decision will be necessary.

Sacrifice of either family or loyal friends is never justified.

Never.

Nor is it required.

Never.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Thank you.

You were paying attention to what I asked.

Word content and intent is so very important and seems to be overlooked most days now.

You are correct, and as I have stated many times already, situation dictates tactics.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


No I would not wonder. We all die sometime. If they died they died, what good is grief? I believe in celebrating the gift of life with each other while we live, and letting the dead get their much needed rest, preferably in peace, but there are some that will end up rotting in hell with grinding teeth and nails on chalkboards and such, at least if there is a god in the vengeful old testament sense.

Once the body gets stiff there ain't much more that can be done with/for them (well there is, but skeleton puppets aren't on my to do list), but there is still plenty to do here with and for the living. Plus, if I walk away and we never communicate again, I won't know or be able to know, because you really have to leave the area that they're in, because what if you're walking down the street and then there's your missing brother staring you in the face? It would defeat the purpose. You would have to sever all ties, not even reading the hometown newspaper online, because all that crap is traceable, and isn't the point of leaving the preservation of life?

As to murdering them to prevent someone else murdering them...if I knew that my actions would lessen their suffering, and it was in the immediate sense, not someone coming to kill them in a month or a year or ten years, then yes I would. I mean if a gang of thugs had knives to their throats and intends to kill them, then I could quite easily go all Kaiser Soze, yeah. But if I know that someone is coming to kill them, you bet your ass I'll do my damnedest to get them first, to hell with the consequences, those people will cease to exist.

Oh and I never answered would I kill them if they were to be used against me/might get me killed. Nope, unless they were purposely being a snitch, such as for money, and then I would probably just send them a deer head or something; but if they're picked up by the secret police and questioned all about me, well the agents will just get what I want them to, a jumbled up mess. I keep my life totally compartmentalized and have never really told anyone my true thoughts. Anyone. I always give a story, but it's always 99.5% fiction or higher, and I usually give different people different stories.

People don't ask me anything personal anymore because they know they won't get the truth. It's just the way I prefer it.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by digger2381
 


Thank you for clarifying your original answer.

I see these choices as something I hope to never have to make.

I have planned, strategized, and thought in contingency plans all of my life.

But, then again, since having a step-father who was a Marine, this should be no surprise.

I think, live, and breath, policy, procedure, and protocol for anything and everything conceivable.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I would NOT sacrifice any human being for my own sake. NOT family, NOT friends, NOT strangers. We are one. Be as one. Live as one. Die as one.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Magantice
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I would NOT sacrifice any human being for my own sake. NOT family, NOT friends, NOT strangers. We are one. Be as one. Live as one. Die as one.


That is an interesting way to die for sure.

Thank you for posting.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Look at the world as a weight. On one side is sadness, and on the other side is happiness.

While sacrificing loved ones may add an extra 50 lbs on to the sadness side, it is my job in life to balance it back out and put my happiness on top once again.

It might take work, but life is precious, and if it is my loved ones that I can not have then my new love in life will be to help others find their own.

Either way, it will suck.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by FritosBBQTwist
 


An interesting answer to say the least.

Thank you for posting.

Hopefully no choice like my OP will ever have to be made.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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There is no greater love than that a man would lay down his life for his brother.

If you don't live for those you love, then what is the point of living?

If a loved one would encumber my survival, I would never let them know.



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