Did no one really get what Jones was trying to do?

reply to post by Kojiro


Highly probable explaination my butt. The disclaimer was a couple of words typed in. And since you missed it:

Articles do not post to the internet in real time and his excuse is an obvious lie to anyone who knows web programming.

That means all that was up was all that was typed. He lied and is continuing to lie. End of story.

I guess I'm going to have to link to the whole load of articles they put up that day, since the opposition apparently go to Mr. Jone's site and look for them theirselves.

So... all of these were done in the space of 90 minutes?

www.infowars.com...
(That one actually got posted before 20 Mins. w/ the Prez. Read the first few paragraphs. So much for deliberate hoaxing. I guess it traveled back in time.)

www.infowars.com...

www.infowars.com...

www.infowars.com...
(Reuters. I know for a fact a periodical like Reuters takes its time to proof.)

What really baffles me though is that we're even arguing about something like this.

Originally posted by Kojiro

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Kojiro

 

In the case of a disclaimer that should have been at the head of an article from the beginning it's an eternity. But I imagine you buy the whole "technical issues" BS excuse.

How is it BS? Have you never been to a busy Web page and half of what's suppose to appear only shows up? Have you never seen traffic disrupt information flow in a site before? Everything down to the layout can be messed up.

The way Alex explained it to the best of his ability, it sounds like each article is loaded into a template by a remote device. If a site is experiencing heavy traffic, an interruption of information can happen. I've seen Alex's site crash numerous times because of traffic. It's a very highly probable explanation.

None of that would be the problem if the disclaimer was actually at the beginning though right? I mean, what you are saying is nonsense but just to humor you - why would the disclaimer get held up longer than anything else?

Originally posted by Kojiro

(That one actually got posted before 20 Mins. w/ the Prez. Read the first few paragraphs. So much for deliberate hoaxing. I guess it traveled back in time.)

Awwwwe, how about that. Alex had a safety net. I have to tell you that I never once thought that anyone would really fall for this but that the most ignorant would and since that makes up most of his listeners...he thought he could still use it deceptively. That is the argument here. Did Alex try to be deceptive? Apparently so. You article proves nothing other than that somewhere else was a contradiction. Did the 'interview' lead people back to this story? Did it refer to this story? Or did it stand on its own for 90 minutes?

Originally posted by Kojiro
Its just a fact of blatant obviousness. That disclaimer, if it was really missing, went on the final article rather quickly. If there really had been intent to deceive, it never would have received a disclaimer, at all.

Or are you going to claim a kid who spills a glass of water with his clumsy fingers did it deliberately despite his statement of "oopsie" afterwards?

My appologies but I finally have to step in here. I got here and my eyes just about popped out? You are a writer? Good, that means you know how to form letters on paper. You are not an author of any kind because you would not begin a paragraph with and undeclared pronoun in what is not even a sentence.

I know it is off topic but it lends itself to the issue of credibility here on ATS. Most people would never say what it is they are but you have. You claimed that you are a writer which gives you special insight into how articles are written and the time it would take and all of your other noise. Please give me the name of your editor so that I can buy them a book on basic grammar. You lied about who you are to make your case about Alex. Wow, when you go to bed tonight, be proud of that. Remind yourself, you lied to strangers of no consequence on an internet conspiracy forum in order to stick up for Alex Jones.

Find those dead kids in those cages yet?

Originally posted by Kojiro
I guess I'm going to have to link to the whole load of articles they put up that day, since the opposition apparently go to Mr. Jone's site and look for them theirselves.

So... all of these were done in the space of 90 minutes?

www.infowars.com...
(That one actually got posted before 20 Mins. w/ the Prez. Read the first few paragraphs. So much for deliberate hoaxing. I guess it traveled back in time.)

www.infowars.com...

www.infowars.com...

www.infowars.com...
(Reuters. I know for a fact a periodical like Reuters takes its time to proof.)

What really baffles me though is that we're even arguing about something like this.

Ummmm.....Didn't I ask for these long well researched articles that would take over an hour and a half to write? Everyone that thinks it would take more than an hour and half to write any one of the articles offered up as examples, please do speak up!

As to you, my "writer" friend, are these really the articles that are supposed to convince us that there is no way anyone could pull them off in an hour and a half?

reply to post by Lillydale

Then you are not a very creative writer if it takes you so long. These are not deep heart wrenching novels or intense thrillers you are talking about. They are internet articles that contain little to no facts. I can write on articl every 3 minutes at that average length and just as well written. That is 30 articles I could write myself. Why does it take you so long to write an article?

I'd love to see you write just one article and get it right. Seeing as your signature has MARSHMALLOWS spelled wrong and was never proofread, I doubt you would do very well as a writer. You also spelled article wrong in the post I quoted.

You people are ridiculous and playing right into the hands of TPTB. They want us arguing about inconsequential crap like this. Whether it was a mistake or not, who gives a flying fart through a donut hole? I have yet to see a MSM article decrying AJ and how he "lied" but they have talked about the message. Why are you guys so bent out of shape about it? You must have gotten fooled and are still pissed about it is what I surmise. I was mostly asleep when I read it having just awoken about two minutes before I read it and I knew it was not real. I'm not a genius or some smart guy or even trying to be a smart guy but I figured it out.

I guess it's ok for the MSM to lie, repeatedly, to us about most everything. It's ok for the government to use all kinds of propaganda techniques on us to make us fall in line. AJ, for the most part, is a non-entity in the so called real world and you guys are all up in arms about this. No one cares except the few of you here making waves about this.

You all can argue all you want, it's just divisive crap and exactly what they want you to do. Don't pay attention to the real problems in this world, get bent about something that means nothing. Nothing at all. Not putting a disclaimer there, whether on purpose or not, has not hurt AJ's credibility. Had had almost none to start with.

I tell ya, this site seems to have fallen off of it's collective rocker recently. Numerous threads arguing about this, going nowhere, and the world is still spinning, the sun still comes up, the International Banking Cartel is ready to crash the economy, the government wants to jab you with poison for a harmless and mostly non-existent flu, Codex Alimentarius is just around the corner and you want to argue this. Might as well argue who the best basketball player of all time, MJ or LBJ. At least that would be entertaining. This is just a bunch of whining.

reply to post by TheLoony


By all means continue to believe a liar who has shown his true colors but kindly, don't lambast us for calling us on it. The MSM lies and you ignore it rightfully so yet when AJ is caught in a lie you do everything in your power to pretend it just isn't so. Basically becoming what you claim to hate soo much, sheeple. Albeit belonging to different sheppard.

So much talk about this...
One simple fact, Jones did that to draw attention towards the truth. It was a simple psychological act and it worked. Even if people will be hearing afterwards that it was not real, the facts about 9/11 are true.
So they may begin to doubt the official declaration of the gouvernment.

That's it, do not search more behnd it. The government is doing all the time those psychological acts, so why not using it to spread the truth ?

Of course it's a decieving act as well so we won't pay attention to other things. That's why Alex Jones is a freemason and doing his duties as such and doing the horned sign from time to time.

reply to post by Lillydale



Well, I can weigh in on the "no intent to deceive" and as to your question that implies that we don't know if that is true (they didn't mean to deceive), let me say this:

1) They said it was an accident
2) Unless someone has a polygraph machine or passed the Professor Xavier's MK ULTRA Mind Reading Academy For Gifted Children with flying colors I don't think that any of us can prove or disprove their intentions. Asking someone to prove that someone else is telling the truth about what they meant is no different than asking js what are the winning lottery numbers for this weekend.

We don't know what they meant to do. We know the end results of their actions. If you choose to think he's a scam artist and are disappointed by his actions then don't listen and avoid Infowars and PrisonPlanet.

Sean Hannity raises my blood pressure so I don't watch him. Bill O'Reilly makes me want to throw something at the television set 70% of the time so I only watch him in small doses. I can't stand Britney Spears and therefore don't own her albums.

You aren't a fan of Alex Jones or gold so it is easy enough to avoid him especially since he isn't even mainstream enough to invade your television set. Very easy man to avoid.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by TheLoony

 

By all means continue to believe a liar who has shown his true colors but kindly, don't lambast us for calling us on it. The MSM lies and you ignore it rightfully so yet when AJ is caught in a lie you do everything in your power to pretend it just isn't so. Basically becoming what you claim to hate soo much, sheeple. Albeit belonging to different sheppard.

Baaaaaa Baaaaaa

Woops! Sorry.

Maaaaaa. Maaaaaa.

I'm more of a goat.

Seriously though... I don't think he lies. Unlike Sean Hannity, I think Alex Jones believes what he is saying. You don't. Here is where we differ.

I am a thinking person, so Alex Jones will plop a story down in front of me and I then decide to investigate it further. Sometimes I find that he's wayyyy out there and I discard the story, and sometimes I find that he's telling the truth. With Alex you are getting an alternate news personality so you know there is some work you have to do on your own.

MSM sells a slick product, they use brainwashing techniques (admittedly in some cases), and they make people believe that they are trustworthy and here to help. People eat it up and don't question.

There is a huge differene between the people who watch MSM and the people that scour the internet for "other" news. We are actively searching, as opposed to waiting in a corral to be fed.

Most people question Jones. I know I do. It's rather fun doing my own post-show research.

In this case, I think what happened was brilliant and if people had taken the same amount of time to go out and use the momentum to digg and stumble a story with legs as they used to slam Jones there would have been a lot more ROI.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by A Fortiori]

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Well, I can weigh in on the "no intent to deceive" and as to your question that implies that we don't know if that is true (they didn't mean to deceive), let me say this:

1) They said it was an accident
2) Unless someone has a polygraph machine or passed th..........

Yeah, no. I do not buy it. We do not need any polygraph to find the truth. That is jut not the only way. Sometimes you can tell someone is lying by the lie that was told.

So it was an accident? I thought it was a computer error? I thought it was a server problem? I thought it was a code problem? It is an accident?

Tell you what. Spell out exactly what it is that Alex says is the reason for the HUGE delay and lets look at it and see how honest it seems.

Originally posted by TheLoony
I'd love to see you write just one article and get it right. Seeing as your signature has MARSHMALLOWS spelled wrong and was never proofread, I doubt you would do very well as a writer. You also spelled article wrong in the post I quoted.

Cool, when I get home tonight, we will have a little challenge but until then....

1- I never claimed to be an author or a writer and then proceeded to put out some really bad blatant errors.
2- I certainly never thought my signature on a UFO/Bigfoot website had to be proofread. I just copied and pasted it without much thought. I can do that. I am not a writer or author or bragging about my English skills.

You want to call me out. I am going to put all your words right back down your little throat. That is a promise. These articles are SHORT and contain very little research that Alex would not have already just had on hand.

Until I see something that I could not write in an hour and a half, I do not buy it. All that and yet, I am not a writer. See you tonight!

reply to post by Lillydale


Hi Lily!

No, no, no my point is not that a lie detector is the only way to know any truth, I said it is the only way to know the truth of someone's intentions. Intentions are only ever in your own head.

I can know the truth if you said that you donated XYZ to charity by checking tax records.

I can know the truth if he said he put the disclaimer in there and it didn't "take" by checking the log.

I can't know if he meant to do something and didn't. In the end our perception of someone relating their intentions really becomes an emotion, or "gut" based decision on our part.

We are creatures of emotion and it is hard to disassociate from how we feel about something or someone. Everything is shaded through our own lens.

reply to post by A Fortiori


Charlie's dad, Martin Sheen, is no virgin to controversy...I remember during the 60s he was arrested for chaining himself to an armory in California. Look here:

Martin Sheen: ‘I’ve Been Arrested 65 Times’
www.theinsider.com...

Actor Martin Sheen Arrested at Space Millitarization Rally
www.space.com...

I am not the President. Instead, I hold an even higher office, that of citizen of the United States.
Martin Sheen

I have been accused of being a traitor, and I have been accused of not supporting the military. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Martin Sheen

My first civil disobedience arrest for social justice was in 1986 for protesting the SDI.
Martin Sheen

We are the generation that brought the bomb in. We have got to be the generation that should take it out.
Martin Sheen
quote source: www.brainyquote.com...

Originally posted by TheLoony


I'd love to see you write just one article and get it right.

Get what right, exactly? Did you read those articles? Challenge me. I guarantee that anyone with half of a brain could have written any of the given articles in about 15 minutes. They are not long and contain very little new research if any. I have no idea why so many of you think a few articles that a few paragraphs (small paragraphs) each should be such a daunting task. If there was an entire team, which he has, then there should be tens of lengthy articles with all kinds of interesting facts in them. I also would like whomever wrote that crappy post and claimed to be a writer to challenge me. I am not a writer. I am a published author. I am not talking about writing a journal or paying to self publish. I have books out under Talon, Houghton Mifflin, Putnam (Viking), and some contributions to books published under Simon and Schuster just to name a few. I could write the articles given with the research time included with my eyes closed in ten minutes or less.

If any of you actually look at this thread in its entirety, you will clearly see that all you are doing is making excuses for Alex as the excuses change from person to person and post to post. Why do you suppose there are so many given reasons for this 90 minute lapse when you all know exactly why it happened? You all know and yet you all have a different version.
Now tell me all about how my signature is spelled wrong and see if that makes Alex any more credible.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by TheLoony

 

By all means continue to believe a liar who has shown his true colors but kindly, don't lambast us for calling us on it. The MSM lies and you ignore it rightfully so yet when AJ is caught in a lie you do everything in your power to pretend it just isn't so. Basically becoming what you claim to hate soo much, sheeple. Albeit belonging to different sheppard.

I don't believe AJ. I don't disbelieve AJ. I don't listen to him, I don't pay attention to what he does or says - except for now when it's ll over the place.

I don't care about AJ. Never have. By my count this is the third post in any of these threads about whether he lied or didn't, so don't tell me I am doing "everything in my power to pretend it isn't so". After my next post, I will be done with this thread and that will be the end of my involvement.

I never used the words "hate" nor "sheeple", so please, don't tell me what I think or what I said. You should spend time bitching about Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Levin, people who are causing this country actual harm with their bs, instead of focusing on AJ, whom no one cares about for the most part except the fringe. Talk about liars, those guys are the cream of the crop.

Before you get all bent, I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican, I just have to hear those guys because my Mom listens to them on the radio and I hear them all the time. Bunch of freakin' liars and hatemongers they are. I don't know if AJ is worse or better, but I've gotten more real news from him in the clips posted here on ATS over the years than I ever will from those buttheads.

reply to post by autowrench


He is a member of the Catholic Social Justice Movement. I'd hardly consider us "radicals". We don't hurt anyone. We're a pacifistic movement. We just happen to place "God" above "country".

For the record, I believe that deception has to be "willful" for it to be "wicked". I don't think in this case it was "willful". Considering the stories placed all around the infamous letter I do not see this as "willful" with the intent to deceive. I see it as an attempt to get people to think about the "what if". I see it as a rally.

Others, my respected would be vanquishers Lillydale and Watcher, disagree with me wholeheartedly on this. I respect their opinion, understand that they will not change mine, nor I theirs.

It is for everyone to decide for themselves, but at the very least we are all now talking.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by TheLoony
I'd love to see you write just one article and get it right. Seeing as your signature has MARSHMALLOWS spelled wrong and was never proofread, I doubt you would do very well as a writer. You also spelled article wrong in the post I quoted.

Cool, when I get home tonight, we will have a little challenge but until then....

1- I never claimed to be an author or a writer and then proceeded to put out some really bad blatant errors.
2- I certainly never thought my signature on a UFO/Bigfoot website had to be proofread. I just copied and pasted it without much thought. I can do that. I am not a writer or author or bragging about my English skills.

You want to call me out. I am going to put all your words right back down your little throat. That is a promise. These articles are SHORT and contain very little research that Alex would not have already just had on hand.

Until I see something that I could not write in an hour and a half, I do not buy it. All that and yet, I am not a writer. See you tonight!

1. You claimed you could write thirty articles in 90 minutes. Don't look at me, you said it. Unless I got the wrong person in this thread - I'm not going back to look - if so I apologize.

2. You claimed you could write articles yet in just one post I looked at there were two spelling errors(including the sig). Not very good, I must say. You want to bitch about AJ's credibility yet you can't even use spell check? Do you not read your posts? I am not a writer and never claimed to be, but I take great care with what I post. I may put up a paragraph or two, then totally rewrite them to get my point across properly, spelling errors fixed, make sure I have it done to the best of my English skills, etc. All that said, I still make mistakes and I will own up to every one of them.

Copy/pasting that into your sig, it's still on you. You screwed up by not reading it in the first place. It makes you look foolish to sit here and claim you can do so much better than AJ yet you didn't even look at what you put up. Same thing AJ said he did. So don't bitch about him when you did almost the same thing - putting something up without checking it.

I said this would be my last post in this thread but I guess I have to respond to KJ, so I'll have to read his/her post again to do that.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


I never challenged anyone. I never claimed to be a writer or author(which you feel are not the same but that's nitpicking). I don't know why you want to challenge me to anything. Again, I never, ever claimed to be a writer so I won't take you up on that. You claim to be a published author, good for you. I don't say that sarcastically, I mean it.

If I were writing a short article like you mentioned, I still would probably do what I said in my last post, write and rewrite until I got it right. I don't put up anything without carefully checking it. That is me and I don't have my own website(like AJ) that means something to people. I'm just a poster on ATS. If you can write something and get it right the first time then you are a better writer than I am(again, I never claimed to be one). Some of us can't.

Regarding your last paragraph, I don't know what happened in AJ's case, nor do I care. He could be lying or telling the truth. Sometimes, things get screwed up, it happens. I don't care whether he did it on purpose or not. I don't care at all. He got the message out there and that is all that needs to be discussed, IMO.

You really, again IMO, should be bitching about Fox news for all the lies their supposed journalists have put out over the years. More, many more, people pay attention to that drivel than ever will to AJ. They have much more influence on people than AJ ever will and they will lie through their teeth to propagate their insane Republican views. Why not focus on real problems instead of something/someone no one cares about? They use psyops, propaganda and NLP, and any other trick they can pull out of their bag all the time to tell us how to think yet AJ pulls one stunt(possibly, again no one really knows) and the sky is falling. I don't know if AJ lies all the time, I don't know about how many articles he has put up that are wrong or not entirely truthful because I don't pay attention to him but all this, to me, is just whining. There are much bigger problems in the world than this and in the long run it means nothing except HE GOT THE MESSAGE OUT THERE!!!!! A year from now no one will remember this screw up yet the message will still be out there.

Last note. In the immortal words of comedian Artie Lange, and I quote:

"WHAAAAAAA!!!!".


Quit whining and fight a real fight in stead of this divisive crap. This serves no purpose other than to divide us humans, who should be fighting the real foes like the International Banking Cartel, our own government which was sold to them many decades ago, the liars and propagandists in the MSM, the multi-nationals which have more rights then we do and any others I may have forgotten to mention. Those are real threats.

I cannot change any of your opinions unless you want to listen to a little, tiny bit on logic. This argument is going nowhere, will never go anywhere and is exactly what they want us to do instead of fighting the real threats TPTB have put against us. Spend time whining about all this, I am now done with it.