Currently there are 2795 UN-IDENTIFIED aircraft in flight

I've flown without a transponder before? Well, technically I did have a transponder, but it didn't work... in any case, flight aware tracks flights which they have not identified - however, these are still coming from civilian airports. Spotters do not notice any government or military activity aircraft in these areas.

EDIT: The flights that are apparently not identified are. Leave the page open and refresh once in a while...

[edit on 31/8/2009 by C0bzz]

reply to post by Udontknowme


this is really interesting. bet there are movie stars, kings, queens, ceos, reporters, military brass, sheiks, top secret craft and all manner of rich, famous and exclusive aircraft up there right now. they are probably the ones flying incognito.

I do suspect the "total tracked" number is wonky because it never seems to change very much. But even if it's accurate your "discovery" has a real problem.

Because a couple of thousand aircraft are not members of some commercial fleet, it demonstrates that "chemtrails" are real? This makes absolutely no sense. There are thousands of private and chartered (unscheduled) aircraft which file flight plans and fly IFR. These flights are included in the total number of flights being tracked by FlightAware. They are not part of commercial fleets so they are not listed on the fleet list. Most of them will have their tail numbers displayed but some do choose to have them blocked.

In 2004, general aviation hours flown made up 48.3% of total hours flown. Keep in mind that most general aviation flights are of shorter duration than scheduled flights. In fact, in 2001 general aviation departures made up 79.82% of the total number of departures (hopefully the number of arrivals was nearly as high).
www.aopa.org...

In 2007 there were at total of 221,943 active general aviation aircraft (private and chartered) in the US.
www.aopa.org...
Let's leave the rotorcraft out, make it 212,784. Is it really unreasonable to imagine that 1% of them might be in the air, flying IFR?


[edit on 8/31/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by dragonridr
The data is not being generated from radar.Flight tracker looses planes all the time its updates are from airport radar systems.

The data is not from radar, it's from radar? What?

The software doesn't just 'guess' where planes are. It'd have no use at all if it did.

As a student-ATC I just have to laugh out loud a bit at this. And yes, you may call me a debunker and you may call me rude. Because, you never seem to listen to what people present; you are stuck with your beliefs and wont even look at what other people present to you. It's a big shame.

I am a student-ATC in Europe, so I can only talk about what we do here. Though, the ICAO and in America, the FAA, have certain rules according to the airspace. Take a look at this chapter of the flyers handbook, issued by the FAA:

www.americanflyers.net...

As you can see, there is an awful lot of Airspace Echo (AS E) in America. This is partly uncontrolled AS, since the VFR-pilots don't even have to call in to fly there. And look at Airspace Delta! Transponder is not mandatory!

As an ATC we see alot of unidentified traffic in the lower airspace. I bet you can't find many (if any) unidentified flight in the upper controlled airspace, where your supposed "chemtrails" most likely would be sprayed.

A normar PSR-radar gives the ATC a primary target on the screen. An SSR-radar gives you either uncorrelated- or correlated targets. For SSR-radar the plane has to have a transponder, preferably a Mode C, so that the level of the a/c can be determined and confirmed. If a plane doesn't have a transponder, you would only get a primary-target which is unidentified (in some ways).

And just because you see a plane on a tracker that isn't showing labels doesn't mean that it is an unidentified aircraft. There are procedures to follow when an ATC are to identify targets without labels/transponder.
We have all the information either from the FDPS (Flight Data Processing System) or from the pilot when he calls in. We know that he doesn't have a transponder, so he remains as a primary target. What we do is that we apply certain methods to identify him. We can i.e. use the radial and arc to a certain NAV-aid, or we can use the position and heading reported and compare that to what data we get from our radar. We can then consider targets as identified. It will not show up on your flight tracker, but still, I would for sure trust the systems that the ATC uses, and the ATC itself.



And an answer to the reply that said that debunkers never will accept soilsamples for proof that "chemtrails" are real, you are 100% right.
Why?

Well, it is quite simple actually. We cannot disprove that the chemicals in the soil aren't from "chemtrails", but you can't either prove that it isn't from industrial plants located on ground.

Maybe you should open your eyes and try to see how not plausible the whole "chemtrail" theory is.

~Zyril

reply to post by Udontknowme


very nice post udontknowme. as being a small engine pilot myself i am apt to agree with you on all of your points except the chem trails. not saying you are reaching a bit here, but there is something serious going on which i agree there should be somekind of investigation.

i have to laugh as i see the usual debunkers claiming yet again that nothing is wrong with this picture.

love ats, but the amount of debunkers on any legitimate point of view is starting to get old.

reply to post by Zyril


Transponder is not mandatory! hey z when you take your final flight solo!!! dont turn your transponder on and see if you get your private pilot license!! second off, try it when your going for your vfr or instrument rating, christ . where did you say your taking your training at? hopefully it is no where near idaho

Originally posted by tatersalad
reply to post by Udontknowme

 

very nice post udontknowme. as being a small engine pilot myself i am apt to agree with you on all of your points except the chem trails. not saying you are reaching a bit here, but there is something serious going on which i agree there should be somekind of investigation.

i have to laugh as i see the usual debunkers claiming yet again that nothing is wrong with this picture.

love ats, but the amount of debunkers on any legitimate point of view is starting to get old.

Thanks for that breath of fresh sanity.

Somethings up with the numbers. I've heard them say on CNN before there were over 5000 AC in the air. Even in this busy air traffic environment, that's a lot of aircraft. And on the list of carriers, which includes cargo and commercial civilian transport, the amount hardly ever get over 2000.

Whether you realize the chemtrails are happening or not, the numbers HIGHLY suggest something is up.

For me though, this is just another chemtrail cover-up.

reply to post by tatersalad


This is pretty basic stuff - no, transponders are NOT mandatory for VFR flight in certain classes of airspace. Just keep out of controlled airspace, and you're fine for the most part...

I would recommend knowing the first thing you're talking about before posting...

Whether you realize the chemtrails are happening or not, the numbers HIGHLY suggest something is up.

The numbers suggest something is up with Flight Aware.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why are flights randomly swapping between unidentified and identified?

Why are the apparently "unidentified" flights coming out of commercial airports where government or military aircraft do not operate from?

[edit on 31/8/2009 by C0bzz]

Originally posted by tatersalad
reply to post by Zyril

 

Transponder is not mandatory! hey z when you take your final flight solo!!! dont turn your transponder on and see if you get your private pilot license!! second off, try it when your going for your vfr or instrument rating, christ

. where did you say your taking your training at? hopefully it is no where near idaho

'

Read my post completely before you ridicule yourself. Check the different airspace classes, and then check what you need to fly there, i.e. certain equipment or ATC clearance.

You are just like the VFR-pilots that ATC dislike; not very well versed in the subject and unexperienced to the rules and regulations. Please, read your FAA books once again.

And FYI. I am studying at Eurocontrol in Europe. Modern and very professional training!

reply to post by Udontknowme

The statistics say that more than half of the aircraft flying are general aviation.

Interesting that the number of total number of flights number hasn't changed in the past day.

[edit on 8/31/2009 by Phage]

What I'm going to start doing, is photograph chemtrails over my head, and then verify (or try to) with flight tracker.

If the aircraft shows up on flight tracker, with a tail number, then it's can be trace to where it's going, where it came from, what airlines it is.

If it doesn't show a tail number, but it's on the map, then it's unmarked.

If it doesn't show up at all, then it unmarked, no transponder, most likely secret military.

I shall do this to several aircraft, to get an average.

reply to post by Udontknowme


Perfect!
You can report your findings on this sticky thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Be sure to include the time of day.

But you're wrong about "unmarked" flights. Military flights (even the non-secret ones) are not tracked by FlightAware and do not appear on their maps at all. ATC does track them though.

FlightAware does not track military aircraft and presidential movement flights (e.g., Air Force One, Marine One, etc.) are operated by the US military.

If it shows on a FlightAware tracking map with no tail number it could be because the owner has chosen to have his tail number blocked. There are also "issues" with FlightAware itself, sometimes the flight ID and other information simply are not displayed.

If you're tracking a single flight and it's near the origin or destination airport, it might not have a data block to ensure that the airport code itself isn't blocked. On the ATC-style displays with many flights, often times there are so many flights in limited space that it's not possible to display data blocks for all of them. In future iterations of the software, a more powerful zoom feature will alleviate this problem.

flightaware.com...

[edit on 8/31/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Somethings up with the numbers. I've heard them say on CNN before there were over 5000 AC in the air. Even in this busy air traffic environment, that's a lot of aircraft. And on the list of carriers, which includes cargo and commercial civilian transport, the amount hardly ever get over 2000.

Whether you realize the chemtrails are happening or not, the numbers HIGHLY suggest something is up.

For me though, this is just another chemtrail cover-up.

British Airspace handles over 7,500 flights a day (24 hour period) in an area smaller than Texas.

Considering the size of the CONUS, the population densities, and the distance between cities common sense dictates that there will be more aircraft over the 'States in any given day than there is over here.

5000AC in the air over the CONUS, therefore, is not "a lot of aircraft" at all. If anything the number is smaller than it should be.

Originally posted by Udontknowme
What I'm going to start doing, is photograph chemtrails over my head, and then verify (or try to) with flight tracker.

If the aircraft shows up on flight tracker, with a tail number, then it's can be trace to where it's going, where it came from, what airlines it is.

If it doesn't show a tail number, but it's on the map, then it's unmarked.

If it doesn't show up at all, then it unmarked, no transponder, most likely secret military.

I shall do this to several aircraft, to get an average.

Wow it took almost 3 pages before some productive came up... Post starred!

Originally posted by nicolaas

Originally posted by Udontknowme
What I'm going to start doing, is photograph chemtrails over my head, and then verify (or try to) with flight tracker.

If the aircraft shows up on flight tracker, with a tail number, then it's can be trace to where it's going, where it came from, what airlines it is.

If it doesn't show a tail number, but it's on the map, then it's unmarked.

If it doesn't show up at all, then it unmarked, no transponder, most likely secret military.

I shall do this to several aircraft, to get an average.

Wow it took almost 3 pages before some productive came up... Post starred!

I just took a picture of one overhead, and it didn't exist on flight aware.

I'm having some trouble capturing the screen image of flight aware to prove my point. Any suggestions?

reply to post by Udontknowme


Yeah, that'll prove your point.....a screen shot and some random photograph.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Somethings up with the numbers. I've heard them say on CNN before there were over 5000 AC in the air. Even in this busy air traffic environment, that's a lot of aircraft. And on the list of carriers, which includes cargo and commercial civilian transport, the amount hardly ever get over 2000.

Whether you realize the chemtrails are happening or not, the numbers HIGHLY suggest something is up.

For me though, this is just another chemtrail cover-up.

British Airspace handles over 7,500 flights a day (24 hour period) in an area smaller than Texas.

Considering the size of the CONUS, the population densities, and the distance between cities common sense dictates that there will be more aircraft over the 'States in any given day than there is over here.

5000AC in the air over the CONUS, therefore, is not "a lot of aircraft" at all. If anything the number is smaller than it should be.

Let's say, the average flight in the UK is 1 hour. That makes 313 aircraft in the air at one time.

Flight aware is saying there were 48,516 flights tracked in a 24 hour period.

Nearly 6.5 times the amount of flights.

Originally posted by cranberrydork
reply to post by Udontknowme

 

Yeah, that'll prove your point.....a screen shot and some random photograph.

If you don't have anything useful to post, move along.