Currently there are 2795 UN-IDENTIFIED aircraft in flight

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Whatever.

That about sums up your argument here, doesn't it? Whatever. When presented with facts, be it about about weather systems or flight operations, or the impracticalities of trying to track planes without radar the answer is an unsubstatiated "whatever".

I've seen you many times in chemtrail threads, pretending not to debunk but always siding with the govt. psy clops.

You mean you've seen me in several chemtrail threads presenting facts, questioning methods and trying to get to the bottom of the whole thing in a non-hysterical manner that doesn't rely on outright lies, ignorance, falsehoods, crank science and a bucket load of assumptions about things and instead relies on meteorology, flight sciences, mathematics and a healthy does of common sense? Correct.

If your answer to that is to label it as "siding with the govt. psy clops" then you have lost your argument, hands down, straight off the bat, because any fool can look up and say "theres lines in the sky" and start making assumptions, but without actually being aware of all the factors involved and taking them into consideration all they are is exactly that - a fool making assumptions.

You are dealing with objects in the sky that can be 10 miles away horizontally and 4-6 miles vertically from whatever point you choose to observe them from. You have no idea of the atmospheric conditions at the height of the aircraft, no idea of the wind directions at the height of the aircraft, no idea of the windspeed at the height of the aircraft or the temperature at the height of the aircraft.

You don't know what the aircraft is, don't know the payload or take off weights, the range of the plane, where it is going etc, and yet you assume that somehow it could be filled with passengers and cargo and fuel enough to fly 5000 miles and somehow still have enough space left on board to hold tanks containing some kind of aerosol agent that mysteriously gets sprayed into the atmosphere constantly without the knowledge of the flight crew, or the people on the ground who service the planes, load the cargo and fuel them and operate them on a daily basis.

Whatever agent you think it is can't be in the fuel, because jet engine exhaust is hot enough to kill just about any organic substance, and it can't be any kind of metal in the fuel because anything other than a lubricant is going to wreck the engines and we'd see planes dropping out of the sky left right and centre.

Now again, thats not debunking, thats just "simple" facts.

Who's to say that these planes are not actually unmarked, untracked gov't AC spraying chemicals on the unsuspecting population.

And who - other than you - is to say they are? Catch 22.

I have certainly shown more evidence to support my theory than you'll ever get close to.

Sorry, but all you have presented is hear'say based on a flawed assumption. "The sky is falling, chicken little" comes to mind.

Who is loading it, who's mixing it, how is the stuff put into the planes apparently without anyone knowledge and who is running the logistics of the operation on a global scale that apparently requires thousands of planes, every single day to fly holding patterns all over the world spraying a "substance" on the population that apparently doesn't kill people off in large numbers even though its apparently been sprayed for twenty plus years now, doesn't show up on toxicology reports for humans and animals, isn't flagged up as a contaminent in the water supply, hasn't affected marine life and doesn't unduly affect the vegetation cycle?

You may class that as "debunking". I class it as sensible questions that need answering without psychobabble, assumptions and junk science.

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Did Ted Kennedy not just die of brain cancer?

was he in Denver? Look Parakeet, you need to be part of the conversation instead of just throwing out random thoughts. You started this thread right? Ted Kenedy lived to be 77. How long was he supposed to live? Did he load the bad juice on the planes in his early years? Did they spray D.C.? Why haven't more people in his circle died of brain cancer? I know you won't have any answers to my questions because you are too worried about mythical beasts. Like Chem trails. Man up son.

reply to post by neformore

Sorry, but all you have presented is hear'say based on a flawed assumption. "The sky is falling, chicken little" comes to mind.

I have shown that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of aircraft flying around that are unmarked, untracked.

I have shown that when a plane is making a chemtrail above me, it is not shown on flight aware, therefore it is a specific purpose military aircraft, spraying chemicals in our atmosphere.

Chicken Little was eventually right.

Originally posted by Udontknowme
Chicken Little was eventually right.

Well....no.....he wasn't. The sky never actually did "fall down".

You have left behind any opportunity to engage in what would be a normal, sane, rational discussion. Therefore, I ask of the ATS community....

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Originally posted by Udontknowme
reply to post by neformore

Sorry, but all you have presented is hear'say based on a flawed assumption. "The sky is falling, chicken little" comes to mind.

 

I have shown that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of aircraft flying around that are unmarked, untracked.

I have shown that when a plane is making a chemtrail above me, it is not shown on flight aware, therefore it is a specific purpose military aircraft, spraying chemicals in our atmosphere.

Chicken Little was eventually right.

You can't even prove when the pics of the plane or the flighaware were taken.Like other people have said that program is delayed by like 5 minutes and plus like the other guy stated you have no point of reference to prove where these planes are on the program/

I found this interesting quote from a comment section on the Contrail Science website.

A friend of mine that lived close by is an avid believer in the chemtrails and he has shown me some photos that are time and date stamped along with screen captures of a flight tracking program called Flightaware, it’s really odd because the planes and trails being made in the photos don’t show up on the Flightaware program,they should if they are only normal commercial flights, right?

contrailscience.com...

Seems like I'm not the only one that finds this data suspicious.

Click here for more information.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

are you really that naive to use that logic for this topic?

[edit on 1-9-2009 by banned4life]

reply to post by neformore


i gotta tell you MOD, you sound a bit like johnny cochran.
debunkers or people with "sensible questions" as you say here at ats often suffer from the "johnny cocharn" syndrome.. If the Glove Don't Fit, YOU MUST acquit!" that's about as far as most of the the critical thinking goes here at ats.

you say psychobabble, assumptions and junk science.

Well there's plenty of this on both sides MOD..open your eyes and look!
ats hypocrisy? i think so.

psychobabble, assumptions and junk science..that's the majority of ats content dude!

[edit on 1-9-2009 by banned4life]

Originally posted by Udontknowme

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Udontknowme

 

well parakeet, until you decide to play nice and have discussions instead of rants, I will have to wait for your next thread to attempt conversation. You dissapoint me greatly.

Why are these off topic posts allowed to remain?

I have no clue what this idiot is talking about.

if you venture back into the thread, you will notice that I had asked you several questions, all of which have been ignored. In the interest of a productive thread, I thought you would offer some answers other than off topic comments such as you have. Care to explain that, or will you just ignore it again?

*** ATTENTION ***


GET ON TOPIC AN BE CIVIL.

but without actually being aware of all the factors involved and taking them into consideration all they are is exactly that..

that my friends sums the entire ats chemtrail debunking mentality up in a single, convenient, easy to read statment.

AND WHO WOULD BE AWARE OF ALL THE FACTORS INVOLVED?
well that person would never come on ats and share.

Originally posted by banned4life

but without actually being aware of all the factors involved and taking them into consideration all they are is exactly that..

that my friends sums the entire ats chemtrail debunking mentality up in a single, convenient, easy to read statment.

AND WHO WOULD BE AWARE OF ALL THE FACTORS INVOLVED?

well that person would never come on ats and share.

It gets old being treated like dirt for posting a conspiracy in a conspiracy forum.

This place is loaded with dis-info agents. This cover-up is huge. It is final.

Originally posted by Udontknowme


I have shown that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of aircraft flying around that are unmarked, untracked.

I have shown that when a plane is making a chemtrail above me, it is not shown on flight aware, therefore it is a specific purpose military aircraft, spraying chemicals in our atmosphere.

The flights are tracked. The only thing that you have shown is that about half of them do not belong to scheduled airline fleets. It is not only fleets who file IFR flight plans. I have pointed out that there are a lot more general aviation flights than you give credit to, very many more. There are a lot of planes in the air that are not part of a fleet.

Some of the pictures you've shown of contrails are at such an oblique angle that there is no way to judge where they are. FlightAware data is delayed by about five minutes. Zero military flights are tracked by FlightAware. None. Zero. Zip. You will not see any military flights on FlightAware. That does not mean that they are "unknown". It does not mean they are "unmarked". It does not mean that ATC does not know about them. It means that FlightAware does not track them. None of them.

[edit on 9/1/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Udontknowme
reply to post by firepilot

 

Its just amazing how much rubbish chemtrail believers will spread to promote their pet conspiracy.

It never ceases to amaze me how rude and arrogant the debunkers are.

So you accuse pilots and the aerospace industries of being involved in some vast sinister conspiracy to spray the populace with chemicals, but then you want politeness in replies to utterly wrong info?

Seems a bit strange, that idea.

While the chemtrail conspiracies have changed since 98 or 99, the singular fact remains - when chemmies attempt to talk about aviation, they never have any idea what they are talking about. Well not just aviation, but meterology too. The comment about diesel fuel was pretty funny, but I even once saw chemmies complaining about the chemtrail airplanes driving the price of gasoline higher.

And there is another fairly recent thread I saw where a chemtrail promoter posted about 10 pictures, and not a single one of them was what he said it was. Those pics had been debunked and explained years before, but either he ignored that, or knowingly posted pics he knew were not what he said.

The last thing chemtrail believers like to do is to learn more about aviation and airplanes before spouting off about chemtrail nonsense and getting everything wrong about VFR/IFR, flight plans, aircraft types, transponders, radars, fuel types, etc.

reply to post by firepilot

So you accuse pilots and the aerospace industries of being involved in some vast sinister conspiracy to spray the populace with chemicals, but then you want politeness in replies to utterly wrong info?

You act like a pilot would never do nothing wrong, even if offered a huge salary from one of the aerospace industries, I.E NASA, DOD, USAF, etc.

Originally posted by Udontknowme
It gets old being treated like dirt for posting a conspiracy in a conspiracy forum.

This place is loaded with dis-info agents. This cover-up is huge. It is final.

It gets really old when people whine when they are challenged on their ideas. ATS is a discussion forum. I'm here to discuss. I'm not here to be preached to - none of us are. I happen not to agree with your point of view on this subject. Why can't you discuss it with me?

However, if asking sensible questions and pointing out sciene and logical fallacies is treating you like dirt then - I freely admit - I'm as dirty as they come. Filthy even.

What is old, is when people start to play the card that says "oh my god, someone just presented a whole load of facts that I can't answer, so I'll try and go for sympathy and claim they are debunkers and part of the cover up".

Thats really, really old.

reply to post by neformore

Retired Oklahoma state judge Bill Ed Rogers now runs out of breath after walking 20 feet to the bathroom. Climbing stairs, he says, "is directly out of the question."

Rogers, does not attribute his strange malady to the mystery jets. But neither he nor his doctors can explain his breathing difficulty, which began shortly after spraying began in November, 1997, and is getting worse. The 57 year old former judge says he thought he was experiencing congenital heart failure when he was admitted into the Mayo clinic last January. But after being diagnosed with severe inflamation in his right lung, a team of top surgeons were unable to pump an unidentified "jello-like" fluid from his lung.

Edgar, Wallace, Hanford and other eye-witnesses are uneasy over the ongoing aerial "experiments and the secrecy surrounding them. "They're gettin' ready, practicing," Edgar believes, for some kind of mass population cull.

www.geocities.com...

Does this sound like they are "making it up"?

Originally posted by Udontknowme
reply to post by firepilot

 

So you accuse pilots and the aerospace industries of being involved in some vast sinister conspiracy to spray the populace with chemicals, but then you want politeness in replies to utterly wrong info?

You act like a pilot would never do nothing wrong, even if offered a huge salary from one of the aerospace industries, I.E NASA, DOD, USAF, etc.

Except that is moot, because your own speculation of a hypothetical event, is not evidence that this hypothetical event has ever occurred.

Evidence is what counts, not endless uninformed speculation by people who have no expertise or even the slightest bit of knowledge about aviation or meteorology. You know, its not that hard to take a tour of an ATC facility, or to take a flying lesson, or even a private pilot ground school. Or even go buy some IFR navigation charts for a few bucks to actually see how many airplanes navigate, (and why this "grid" talk by chemmies is just bollucks).

Chemtrail believers will do anything to promote an idea of a vast aviation conspiracy, except actually learning about aviation.