Beer-Drinking Model Demands Public Caning

Let's get back to what this all started about.

It seems apparent that you "spiritfilled" have absolutely no moral conception whatsoever, over having a drink for leisure, and being an alcoholic.
No difference. It's the same thing for you, except when it concerns you.
The same could be said of those who are going to beat this woman.
Exactly who's moral standards should be upheld here.
We are at the point in our existance, where, humanity, should be the presiding morality.
Unfortunately we are not.
No matter how you cut it, beating is not appropriate for such a minor indiscretion. Physical violence is barbaric, and brings us right back to the stone age.
Lets be more focused here for a moment.
This type of reaction by those involved are, for the express purpose of enforcing a totalitarian view, and creating fear in those who wish to move past such a narrow view.
I am going to stand firm that beating that woman is ridiculous.
I applaud her courage though, much like Ghandi's Satyagraha movement, she is trying to illustrate the barbaric nature of her treatment by having done publicly.
Those that enforce this type of corporal punishment look for any excuse to do so, and even allow such punishments to be conducted by the individuals themselves.
This is not the 18th century anymore.
We as human beings need to grow the hell up.
This type of behavior degrades us all.
The point is, this thing will go on, until such point as we either destroy ourselves or do something about it.


OATMEAL:
I would like some bubblegum, thank you.


[edit on 8/23/2009 by reticledc]

reply to post by Oatmeal

Better call your cat...And I have a great Social Life Thank You, as if that has anything to do with the OP. You are trying to turn the OP into a Social Piece on the Evils of Alcohol. We have all the exact same problems here in the States that you have in NZ. The OP is about one lady, having one beer in a Hotel Bar. A Hotel Bar where it is perfectly Legal for anyone of age to have a Beer, Except if you are Muslim. If you happen to be Muslim, and have a Beer, apparently the Punishment for this is six lashes with a rattan cane. This is just wrong. The woman would like to have her "caning" in public to bring attention to the fact that this particular law is just stupid. And you didn't deny having a drink when posting your previous post...

Sure you do.

Drinking for Muslim is banned in Malaysia. Did it ever occur to you that this women is Muslim, that she believes Alcohol is Haram. If she believes other wise then why does she still regard herself as a Muslim. Do you understand? She can drink all she likes if she is not a Muslim. She chose to be a Muslim, now face the burdens.

Once again, all the defects of alcohol come in to play. The problems which exist in NZ exist all across the Western World. Malaysians are trying to avoid this negative culture, this law makes sure of it, at least amongst Muslims.

reply to post by oozyism

Malaysians are trying to avoid this negative culture, this law makes sure of it, at least amongst Muslims

\

Man, you have such a knack for hitting the nail right on the head.

As if the rest of the world does not matter, amongst Muslims, indeed!
This illustrates the point perfectly.
Among humans, beating someone is wrong.
Humans are not perfect. Violence exists within every facet of society.
So where do we draw the line and stop it, and address the real problem. Tolerance.
Not so long ago, in the USA, it was illegal for "Black" people to use the common areas.
If no one stood up to that intolerance, there would be no freedom for "Black" people. They did suffer under oppressive tyrants, be assured of that.
This situation is no different.
There is no broads stroking sword that encompasses all people of a common heritage/faith/etc...
For every rule there are exceptions.
This, in my opinion is one of those situations.
More over, we do not understand the extent of her faith, and because she is a guest of that country, every single courtesy should be extended to her.
A slight breach of ettiquite should be allowable.
The crime of drinking, would have never gone further than the door of the hotel, if such a big s4!t wasn't made over it.
I guess there is no forgiveness. Only punishment.

reply to post by reticledc

Among humans, beating someone is wrong.

I know exactly what you are talking about, now lets compare and contrast.

Among humans taking someone's money is wrong, depending on the situation. I have already brought light on these issues, you don't seem to understand it. Beating someone is wrong, yes but it also depends on the situation.

Let's take money as an example, so we can compare it to beating. When you do a crime the government takes your money, but according to your argument it is wrong to take that money, because in some situation it is wrong, like lets say stealing. Just because in some situations it is wrong to do something, doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong in every condition.

I hope you understand, just to make sure let's take another example.

Among humans it is wrong to kill people, but based on conditions it can be justified

As I said before, laws are there for a reason, if you exclude the reason then you are left with nothing but the punishment hence exclude all reasoning behind the government fines, how would you feel? A punishment can be physical or mental. Who are we to say if physical punishment is any better than mental punishments. A punishment is there to prevent something, and I have already set the case for why a punishment is needed for alcohol consumption.

Here we have a disagreement based on weather mental punishment is better than physical punishment. Now let us examine why a punishment is set in the first place. A punishment is set so that it is distasteful for an individual to commit that action, what ever that action maybe. It has been proven that physical punishment makes it much more distasteful of that action it has been implemented on.

Mental punishments are as painful as physical. Pain can be internal and external. How many people are in prison in America? People have been locked up and taken away from the society due to certain mistakes they have made. They have made these mistakes due to the law not being strict enough and their lives have been ruined. Physical punishment would stop them from making these mistakes in the first place.

Hope something has been brought to light in these paragraphs for you to understand.

More over, we do not understand the extent of her faith, and because she is a guest of that country, every single courtesy should be extended to her.

If you are a guest in America and do a crime does that mean you should forgive and forget?

[edit on 23-8-2009 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


I have to agree with you that ever one of your points are valid ones.
I commend your well thought out reply.
While I am not denying that certain crimes deserve, harsh retribution, those crimes should be of significant severity.
A social issue, such as the one we are debating over, IMO, does not deserve a physical punishment.
A social punishment would do.
It's a matter of drawing a line.
But then again, humans are notorious for crossing the line, ever since the dawn of our species. Which is my point exactly.
I feel that the line has been crossed.

Let us both just agree to disagree.


It's been an edifying experience.




[edit on 8/24/2009 by reticledc]

reply to post by oozyism

A punishment can be physical or mental. Who are we to say if physical punishment is any better than mental punishments. A punishment is there to prevent something, and I have already set the case for why a punishment is needed for alcohol consumption.

A punishment is not there to prevent something. It is there as a deterrent to keep something from happening again. There are also many Punishments in the law, for doings stupid things while under the influence of alcohol.

Pain can be internal and external. How many people are in prison in America? People have been locked up and taken away from the society due to certain mistakes they have made. They have made these mistakes due to the law not being strict enough and their lives have been ruined. Physical punishment would stop them from making these mistakes in the first place.

America has the most people in prison in the entire world. They have not made mistakes because the law was not strict enough. Most have been placed there because A) They are poor. Or B) The law was stupid in the first place. Physically abusing these people would not help anyone. Physical punishment occurs after a person has done something "wrong." Rehabilitation could go a long way towards helping many of these people.

Did it ever occur to you that this women is Muslim, that she believes Alcohol is Haram. If she believes other wise then why does she still regard herself as a Muslim.

Maybe this woman has a different interpretation of what it is to be a Muslim. Why should she have to believe what some Sharia Mullah says. Besides that, read the Koran. It is not against the Muslim faith to consume alcohol, it is more in the form of a suggestion. Irregardless of which faith one human chooses to practice, no faith should condone physical or mental violence towards another human being.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Oatmeal]

reply to post by oozyism

They have made these mistakes due to the law not being strict enough and their lives have been ruined. Physical punishment would stop them from making these mistakes in the first place.

Murder is punishable in all 50 States by either, Life in Prison or Death. That seems to me to be pretty strict. Would it be more of a deterrent if we were to beat them first?