Beer-Drinking Model Demands Public Caning

Originally posted by pieman
the difference between this and locking someone up for months for having a joint is what, exactly?

both are cruel and unusual punishments for crimes that are based in fear and prejudice.

Oh man, so very true!
Thanks for pointing that out

I never even thought about it that way

Thank You!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by pieman the difference between this and locking someone up for months for having a joint is what, exactly? both are cruel and unusual punishments for crimes that are based in fear and prejudice.

Between the two, I'd take the caning!

reply to post by Oatmeal


Oh ya, i'd take the canning too any day
This malaysian model will be canned and then immediately be able to return to her family.

Perhaps our country can learn a few things from Malaysia
I know this will seem backwards to some, but......

I'd rather be canned than lose a few years or even a few months of my life.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by Oatmeal

 

Oh ya, i'd take the canning too any day
This malaysian model will be canned and then immediately be able to return to her family.

Perhaps our country can learn a few things from Malaysia
I know this will seem backwards to some, but......

I'd rather be canned than lose a few years or even a few months of my life.

Well with it being done in public, she now has the ability to bring a negative light on Malaysia.

I can't believe you are arguing for canning... A brutal, primitive, form of punishment.

That woman is a model? Seriously? I could find a dozen better looking women just by walking down the hall of this building- and it's not a very big building. There must be a critical shortage of hotties in Malaysia. No drinking, and no hot women? Don't think I'll be visiting there anytime soon.

:edit: Scratch that- maybe I should move to Malaysia. My wife could be a supermodel!

[edit on 21-8-2009 by moonwilson]

reply to post by moonwilson


That gave me a chuckle

Just one more point. It wasn't too long ago they used to cane kids at school in my country. My dad used to get it quite frequently. Usually it was on the back of the legs, on the ar5e, or on the back of the knuckles. Places that really hurt.

Certain F1 bosses even pay for the privilege.

reply to post by mattpryor


I would take the lashings over the prison sentence. Prison also has a profound effect on families and the mental health of the people who are sentenced.

In fact, one could say the west is more barbaric than countries ruled by Islamic law when it comes to substance violations.

When you lock someone up whether you are justified or not you are essentially kidnapping them and holding them against their will. If it is for substance abuse then they have committed no crime equal to the punishment you are carrying out on them.

Personally, a caning wouldn't be so bad. And it seems more suited for a lapse in judgment then imprisonment.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Well with it being done in public, she now has the ability to bring a negative light on Malaysia. I can't believe you are arguing for canning... A brutal, primitive, form of punishment.

Who's arguing for caning, It's despicable. I just said between caning and Prison for a few months, I would take a caning any day. Perhaps you would prefer Prison, say Hi to Bubba for me....

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Oatmeal]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I can't believe you are arguing for canning... A brutal, primitive, form of punishment.

IMHO, incarceration is morally no better or worse than caning. incarceration is psychological brutalisation where caning is physical brutalisation. i would agree with the other posters, i would rather have 6 lashes than 6 weeks in prison.

caning shocks us because we're not desensitised, we don't see where the justice is in it. we're desensitised to incarceration, we never think about the fact that the state assumes the right to punish us for doing something that effects no-one but ourselves. it's pure "authoritarian power" stuff.

this woman thinks that the lashes are right, it's a fair punishment. we, on the outside, see the madness of it but fail to see the madness of our own system. i never thought about it in these terms before today, i'm glad i saw this story.

Originally posted by pieman
caning shocks us because we're not desensitised, we don't see where the justice is in it. we're desensitised to incarceration

Exactly, another star for you!

I don't get how someone can think caning is so much worse than putting a human being in a cage.

I'm not advocating caning, but it's makes more social and economic sense than putting someone in a cage for a long period of time.

And it's not only the prisoner that loses, his/her family does as well too.

reply to post by pieman

this woman thinks that the lashes are right, it's a fair punishment. we, on the outside, see the madness of it but fail to see the madness of our own system. i never thought about it in these terms before today, i'm glad i saw this story.

I didn't get the impression from the articles, that the "Super Model" thought that the caning was fair punishment. That's why she is wanting it done in public, so the people can see how stupid it is, because she is Muslim.

reply to post by Oatmeal


the Daily mail story you linked to in your OP quotes her as saying

'I want to respect the law,' Kartika said.

'Who am I to question the Islamic authorities' laws? That is beyond me.'

link

i assumed from what she said that she thinks it's right but she might want to show the injustice of it and the mail is spinning it.


[edit on 21/8/09 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman

'I want to respect the law,' Kartika said. 'Who am I to question the Islamic authorities' laws? That is beyond me.'

i assumed from what she said that she thinks it's right but she might want to show the injustice of it and the mail is spinning it.

Of course she wants to respect the law, she might get caned for not respecting the law! , in addition to having a beer. But, I still don't get the impression that she thinks the caning is "right".

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Oatmeal]

reply to post by Oatmeal


now you've said it i went back and re-read all the stories, in the first place i just read the daily mail story but having read all of them, there's a nice little spin being put on the stories.

the mail story says

But Miss Shukarno has even asked for the caning to be carried out in public to send a clear message to Muslims that they should shun alcohol.

the newser story says

"They say they are gentlemen who want to uphold values. Then the public should judge how gentlemanly it is," he said.

makes you wonder, doesn't it. having read them all i haven't a clue how she feels.

reply to post by pieman

makes you wonder, doesn't it. having read them all i haven't a clue how she feels.

I think she wants to take her caning, make her point and get the heck outta there!

reply to post by pieman


You should also add to that the physical abuse/assaults that happen in prison. If you had the option of either punishment and went to prison to avoid the caning, chances are high you would be in a physical conflict in prison which would be equal to the punishment received in caning. Im from Canada and there are a few provincial [ex. The Don Jail ](detention centers) that have stories floating around about white people coming out with minimum black eyes even if they are there just waiting for a day or two to receive a bail hearing.

Now, not to make it racial but there is a high population of blacks in our jails, not as high as the US. But when you lock people up against their will things become extremely racial. And physical force determines any argument inside.

So if you have the option of spending 6 months in a place where you can get punched out for touching the t.v., wanting to use the phone, or simply whistling (that's a rule there) vs. a 10 minute caning. I think most people would go for the caning.

And in these societies it is the public punishment that is meant to deter crime through embarrassment. Maybe if we put drunk drivers etc. in a glass cube in the middle of the city with a label overtop of them for a day they would be too embarrassed to do it again.

reply to post by Oatmeal


yeah, you're probably right, she just wants to get it over and done with. i can't say i blame her for towing the party line before she actually punished.

reply to post by threekings


that's a whole different story, i would have thought that there is a fair bit of bravado involved in it but the people in prison aren't exactly going to be the nicest people in the world.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by Oatmeal

 

now you've said it i went back and re-read all the stories, in the first place i just read the daily mail story but having read all of them, there's a nice little spin being put on the stories.

the mail story says

But Miss Shukarno has even asked for the caning to be carried out in public to send a clear message to Muslims that they should shun alcohol.

the newser story says

"They say they are gentlemen who want to uphold values. Then the public should judge how gentlemanly it is," he said.

makes you wonder, doesn't it. having read them all i haven't a clue how she feels.

Obviously she said the first quote, but I thought it was her father who said the 2nd quote, right? Maybe she doesn't see eye to eye with her father?

But there's a difference between not wanting to challenge Islamic authorities, which clearly is her position, to saying that she agrees with the punishment, I'm not sure if she does, I have to go with OP on this one and guess that she doesn't.

But yeah caning seems less disruptive than time in jail, though hopefully the caning marks won't affect her skin for her modeling, though I guess Muslim women wouldn't be allowed to model bikinis either so she shold be able to hide the marks.

Look at the bright side, you have to pay $150 an hour to get a caning at Mistress Samantha's House of Pain, and Malaysia is offering to just give a caning to her at no charge, is that a deal or what? Watch out Mistress Samantha, you might lose some customers to Malaysia. Then again, maybe not, they might not want to convert to Islam. (just kidding).

Truly the oddest part about this whole story is that anybody else can drink a beer and not get caned, it's only the Muslims that get caned. I guess I'm not the only one who finds that part somewhat bizarre? Here I was trying to convince myself that Islam is just another religion that should be treated on equal footing with other religions, and then I get this reminder that maybe it isn't just another religion, requiring such a unique punishment like this that no other religion is subjected to.

Interesting story, S+F

reply to post by pieman


Of course there is bravado involved for most fights. But one person I talked to had to spend a couple nights there on a non-violent charge. While awaiting his bail hearing he was told to use a separate phone, toilet and shower than the rest of the people there. I think there was two showers, one for the white people and mixed races and one for the black. At one point he was punched in the head simply so someone else could get on the phone, he was never asked just punched and the phone taken. During the same period someone said something 'against' him and when confronted the majority of people told him he had to fight to prove it wasn't true.

Now obviously not everybody's experience would be like this. The guy is kind of a loser to begin with. But still a non-violent loser and not a sexual deviant that found violence even though he wasn't looking for it.

If you talk to people in this area you will hear a lot of stories, and most importantly the guards do not care about you unless you enter their 'protective custody' division. Which puts you with the rapists and weirdos.
Regardless, I'm sure there are people that would have no problems in there, but there will always be a high possibility you will suffer greater than what the punishment is supposed to be.

So, just to reiterate that, a caning would be a welcoming punishment to people than spending 6 months behind bars. It would be embarrassing done publicly. It would affect people social status just as would doing 'time'. And should deter people just the same as jail would, (if jail deters it at all)

Much as I am disgusted by this law, we really have nothing to say about the laws of another country. It's their laws. Their country. The woman knew the risks, and took them - and lost. Just like someone here risking jail time for smoking things that ought not be smoked. I disagree with both laws, but... that's what the law is. Ignore it at your peril.

While many Western countries may consider Islam's harsh laws against drinking as primitive, you have to admit, it does much to curb alcoholism in their countries. It can easily - and reasonably - be argued that the harsh punishments of canings or even whippings, are far less painful than the ravages of alcoholism. I mean, if you take the total harm done by punishing people for drinking, and compare it to the harm done by alcoholism, I'm pretty sure you'll find that the punishment is far less than the damage of the disease. Beat a guy senseless a few times for drinking a beer, and he'll probably never get to the point where his liver is swollen to twice its normal size and he's writing in agony.

So, yes, it's harsh, but is it any harsher than how it works in the West, where we can legally drink ourselves to death, often taking others with us if we drive? Is a whipping or a caning worse than living in the gutter? I'm thinking the punishment is over pretty quick, you heal, life goes on, and you get over it. And probably you don't do it again, unless you're kind of slow to catch on.