Where is your God?!

reply to post by dakota1s2


Why do some humans believe that they need a "god" to bring out the good in them?

Why do humans feel that they need a "god" to accomplish things in life.

Why are some humans so weak-minded? Where is the strength of mind and body? Where is the self-fortitude?

I am a good person. I volunteer and do charity work. I help the needy and give to the poor. I do not harm anyone physically or verbally.

And you know what, I accomplish all of this WITHOUT a "god-concept" in my life, heart, or mind.

I have the power and the choice within myself to accomplish all of the above. I do not need to call on a "higher" power for help. My life and all of my actions are a choice that I am responsible for, not some phantom in the sky.

It just depends on what you view God as. Some view him as the creator of all so then yea, where the heck is here for all this horrible stuff? But I think of God as the consciousness of the Universe. So that God trying to stop one of the billions members of one of the millions of species on one of it's hundreds of billions of planets from hurting another member of the species is like us trying to get one cancer cell in our body to not attack and spread to other cells. Not only would we not be able to control our cells that easily, but you wouldn't even know when your cells attack another. If there is a consciousness of the Universe, it would most likely not know whats going on with us, heck, it might not even know there are conscious beings here.

reply to post by KSPigpen


Your agnostic my friend...Welcome to the club...

moocowman:

I tend to throw freewill out of the window.. Every choice you or I make is really based on some set of factors we consciencely or unconsciencely use to make that choice. So we can make choices but do we really have freewill. In the religious realm if we are influenced by evil then we tend to make different choices than if we are influenced by good. By-the-way, I think protestants want to believe we really have "free will" we in fact(my factor of belief) we may not...

Where is everyone's gods eh?

I know! They are all contributing toward how screwed up the world is!
You see, there are far too many gods in this world who ironically have never shown up, so stOOpid people take it upon themselves to do what they think is the work of their respective "god" and here we are all killing each other and stealing from one another. You know, because that's the way our god would have wanted it.

Is everone happy? have we found the "promised land"?

As if...

Let's just think about what the world would be like if every thing was peaches and cream?
I know many people have said without evil, there is no good, well that's true. If all people were perfect, there would be no purpose to our existence. I myself believe that all suffering must be completely random. For instance, if I knew I could do anything I wanted, because God only takes the old, how would I behave? My fear of judgment is what keeps me from acting out some of the bad things I think about. Without that fear, why would I even care how I acted? I also see it as everything on this planet has a purpose for being here, plants, trees, water, animals, viruses, bacteria, everything helps maintain the earth just for......us. We are not essential to any part of the ecosystem, we are only a drain on it. So why are we here? Well to me, God can be realized only in the realms of human experience, and it is up to you to decide whether you believe or not. Just my opinion

Originally posted by Republican08
If we are our own gods, it's sickening, to believe that a god molests and rapes children, kill thousands with no remorse but a mere smirk and laugh.

Who's to say that all gods are benevolent ones?

God and evil both exist alongside one another because they HAVE to. It is the very dualistic nature of the universe that provides the answer to this question. There can be no dark with out light, there can be no black without white, there can be no GOOD without EVIL, etc... I know people get tired of dualism sometimes, but it rings true to me. It also explains why there are terrible, terrible people in this world, who do all the things the OP mantioned, and yet there are people in this world who you wish would never leave your presence, because they inspire your natural desire to be good. And yet, both do exist. What is so wrong with those terrible people that they do those awful things? Nothing at first, we are all born with pretty much the same tendencies. However, along the way, the good, or the bad, is kindeled within us. It festers, or grows, and becomes who we are. That being said, can any person who is considered good never do something bad? Or vice versa? No... "good" people can do bad things, and "bad" people can do good things.

The human psyche is a microcosm of the universe. In it, there exists the ability to be both good, and evil. Existence, due to it's grand nature, has somehow managed to become both. God exists as the manifested "good" part of existence, and Evil, in whatever form it may take, the "bad" part. There will always be people who do bad things to other people, and yet, there will always be so much good in this world to look to when you start to get overwhelmed by all the bad. That is why thiests love God, and seem so happy everyday. It's because that while they acknowledge theere is evil in this world, they have put their faith in something that can take away all of the pain that evil causes, if you let it.

reply to post by Nola213

I believe there is positive and negative energy that is all, and all balance out equally. Call it karma, or the force, I dunno. But I'm fairly sure from what I've seen throughout my lifetime "God" as I was taught does not exists.

Watch and listen

this is so odd that you posted this video. i was just about to do a search
for it so i could post it here.
the reason being , this was Mr. Carlins last concert.

he was dead w/ in 24 hrs

rip george- great comedian.



[edit on 19-8-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Republican08


The first and only problem with the whole scenario is you are equating God with divine intervention.

I cant tell you in the slightest what or who God is or even if there is a God in the biblical sense. One way or another their is a God though. It might be the physical univese that we see all around us. It may be a dimension we can not see. It may be some alien race that planted us specifically here on earth because every ther planet is unihabitable... Or it may be some bearded father figure in the sky (though I wouldnt place all my chips on the third or fourth option). The only thing I can say besides Im not sure a human can understand what God is is that I am fairly sure their is no such thing as divine intervention. In my opinion there cant be free will and "D.I." They are slices out of the same pie.

Divine intervention is for example, in the Bible, tells us that the hebrew people slaughtered man, woman and child by the hand of God to regain the promised land.

Now, a rational person has to ask themself why God would slaughter the women and children in particular. Is it that God just wanted to give the only arable (or at least the most arable) land in the middle east to the hebrew people? Or was the passage written for jews to have a pride in their own people and give them a special quality above others within their own ranks? Well, in my opinion, there is only one acceptable answer. And that is it is a man made fabrication as to help instill a pride in ones people (in this case the Jews of teh Bible), and God in no way shape or form assisted in the destruction of the innocent women and children of Canaan....Hence no divine intervention... no interference in the evil doing sof man.

Also, if you are going to take the Bible literally, then it is quite clear that God does not reign on earth. This is left to Lucifer, the angel of light. Satan rules what is happening on earth and God doesnt have a thing to say about it...

In my opinion this either contains some allegorical meaning for the dualistic nature of humans or is some attempt in deflecting any admittance to evil deeds commited by humans...I dont know...

edit for typos


[edit on 19-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]

I know I'm independent Christian number 121321 to give this answer but you have to understand. God at one point in the Bible attempted to intervene and root out evil (the flood) but if you keep reading right after the flood it says even so man was still continuously evil. God the all powerful did give man free choice. From what book you read down to what religion you follow, it's your choice. It is the same for the people that do evil things, they also were given free will and they chose to do evil things. Do you think that the people that go out and rape women believe in God? They could claim so but the true answer is no. Most of these people (evil people I guess) feel there is nobody they will ever have to answer to after their time on earth. But the truth is in the end they will face the repercussions of their actions.

It's so strange to suggest to someone to have faith in something but that's all that it boils down to. God NEVER said he would always be there to wave a magic wand and make everything right, he said he would help us get through tough times. (keeping our minds in tact etc) I think the main reason we are seeing more and more evils than many in the 50's or 40's etc (and much before that there has been evil since the beginning you know.. When I say more evil I mean the "normal every day" kind of people killing each other it's horrid to me) is because the Holy Spirit isn't as... prevalent as it used to be. (The holy spirit is that feeling that wraps around your throat when you feel as though you've come across an ultimate truth.) I remember just last year I was researching different things to "debunk" the Bible.. after I spent almost 4 years researching in Nov of last year, the Holy Spirit got me. I was reading about the flood trying to figure out where the giants that were mentioned played in and it just hit me. I was sitting on my couch and was thrown into a conviction. I started shaking and crying.. anyway after several hours of talking to God that night I emerged a new person. The people that you speak of have more than likely never experienced the holy ghost much less conviction, these are 2 things that make it VERY real to me.

In the same sense if one were to say, look at all the evils of men on earth, surely there must be no God, it is almost as if blaming or challenging God to take action which will not get an answer. If you want to look for God, talk to the kid that got hit with a meteor and didn't have a scratch. Or talk to the kid in my town who got struck by lightning at a football game recently and he's now doing fine. God is more or less with the children these days. They are precious to him. I understand the doubt through. I spent most of my life believing in no God and even went on a path to prove the Bible is full of falsehoods... which sent me on a crash course straight to truth. I hope that you find whatever deity you think will come and make everything ok but until then it's up to men to change mens ways on earth. God gave the evil people free will, not as a sick joke, as a right endowed to all men, no matter what. But we also have the free will to stop and prosecute these men.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Boogley]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Boogley]

reply to post by dakota1s2


here's a metaphorical scenario:

there's a big computer (this is God)
he has programs running within the framework of his computer. the framework is necessary. once the programs are launched, they do what they were originally designed to do, without question. this is described as a non-sentient lifeform (for our metaphorical purposes).

now let's say the big computer decided to make smaller versions of himself, virtual machines, that are loaded onto the framework of his desktop. the virtual machine exists within the big computer's framework, HOWEVER, it doesn't have to run the same programs or access the same files other than those the physics of the computer define. this is a separate, independently running smaller version of the original big computer and as such is sentient, problem-solving, decision-making device in the grand tradition of the big computer. et.al, it's free will functioning within a framework




[edit on 19-8-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by KSPigpen
I struggle with this same thing. That's really part of why I am here. I want to do the right thing and believe the right thing, but it's so hard. I have found myself on more than one occasion asking the same question. I come here for help understanding.

I've been told so many times that the reason things go wrong on this rock is mainly because we have free will, or that the devils is in charge down here, or that many people are just evil. I wish I knew what to believe. What allows a tsunami to kill a hundred thousand people? Or a cruel dictator to kill millions?

I don't have any answers. I know that I have to let go of it sometimes because I can't change it, or fix it, or understand it, or even stand to think about it. I like to believe that there is a reason for everything, but I can't wrap my head around it.

There is a lot of suffering and death and killing and torturing and stealing and beating in this world. I don't know why. But maybe we can both get the answer if we hang around long enough.

Thanks for the post. It was real.

There is all this suffering and killing because of our nature and our animal instinct that are still in our DNA. Since we are genetically manipulated of course that certain aspect of our original nature are coming up because we did not evolve spiritually enough.

All it is is energy there is no God as A being looking from the sky and being able to deal or influence any of this .

The only way anything could happen is if a major change will bring awakening and a transformation at spiritual level till then we are here for the ride . We are experiencing this reality like a game . Yes we suffer but in the end each one of us is learning a lesson .

Love and Peace

reply to post by Republican08


I'm an anti-theist, but your examples only point to God not existing as He is portrayed in the monotheistic religions (i.e. benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent, etc). Many other types of deities could exist with the world as it is.

Peace,
Daniel

reply to post by Republican08


Very interesting OP, and you made an excellent point.

Many humans often behave no different to animals in hunting packs acting on instinct alone - gang culture being the obvious similarity.

Natural selection and survival of the fittest applies to almost everything, unfortunately even for young girls walking the streets late at night or even in the daytime.

Religious people daren't admit that humans don't behave very much different to animal species a lot of the time.

If only everybody would realise that we aren't as special as humans all once thought, and considered just how large the universe is in comparison to planet earth. When you look at distant galaxies.... how many races have existed in the past 10 billion years? What we see is how the galaxy was billions of years ago, and we are essentially looking at civilisations that existed millions of eons ago! I cannot comprehend what feeling I would have seeing the earth from space, and how putting these realisations of how small we are into a real-life perspective would create enormous sensations.

I ask myself if everybody made these same realisations and stopped with petty arguments over who is right and wrong, and realised that they are responsible for their actions even without a god to punish them, then the world would transform into a place that aliens would like to visit.

As well as technological developments, as a race, we will have to learn how to behave more responsibly to each other in order for us to be accepted as a worthwhile species to be associated with. I don't see spiritual enlightenment in religion, I only see narrow inward looking views there. For us to evolve spiritually, and survive as a species we need more critical-based thinking and scientific knowledge based learning.

The key problems to overcome are ensuring the technology is developed and put into good use in order for humanity to survive to the end of the 21st century and beyond, ensuring this doesn't get misused leading to nuclear or bio/chemical wars, and for us to accept our place in the universe humbly & modestly, whilst still having pride in our achievements Rather than who can shout the loudest about his/her opinions, and without seeing any need for a creator to watch over us. Because we have not shown ourselves worthy or special enough to require an all powerful observer.

I would hope the other races at least within our own galaxy who have reached a space-faring level of technology can overcome these problems that we are faced with, and their own unique issues, as it leaves very little in terms of optimism should survival of the fittest-based wars be univerally prevalent. Extremely advanced races wouldn't have to desire to become involved in petty arguments and wars, much in the same way we don't involve ourselves in the ants fight against the worms for its food. Hoping we don't get in the way of advanced aliens, from how we treat inferior creatures. Although many races we see as advanced compared to us, and are possibly able to colonise the galaxy may not have evolved far enough to shed these bad habits.

I often wonder how many species in the 14 billion age of the universe, (and possibly in previous and future universe's in the multiverse that may have existed), have reached as far as we have, and survived far beyond our current levels of development both technologically and evolutionary or spiritually. Do most races destroy themselves.... are we just another one of the failed races that don't reach a "Type 1" level civilisation? Would the majority of space-faring races pay any attention to our primitive by comparison "Type 0" civilisation? Will humanity be one of a minority in a few billion years who become, what humans once would have described as gods?

Or, will we destroy ourselves in a most spectacular fashion, that even in this universe of natural selection and survival of the fittest, we will prove ourselves to be even lesser of a species than we can even comprehend at this moment in time?

Personally, I hope we can as a species buck up our ideas, and reach our next level of development in one piece, because at the moment, whether we want to admit it or not.... we are only taking baby steps trying to survive, and bad choices can be just as fatal as a predatory race seeing us as breakfast!


[edit on 19-8-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by reticledc
For me, God is not a tangible term.
God Simply IS.
Existing as energy, the energy which comprises everything in the universe.
Through this energy, everything is connected.
Distance has no relevance.
We are as much part of this universe by existing here as we are if we existed 100 billion light years from here.
Every mind, Human or otherwise, part of a greater consciousness.
A consciousness, which exists beyond the 11 conceivable dimensions, in which no longer exist the duality of our universe.
Existing as a singularity of thought and consciousness. A point we can never obtain and are not meant to obtain.

So to me God simply Is and therefore is everywhere.





[edit on 8/19/2009 by reticledc]

thats a bit self-cenetered dont you think... have u ever experienced anything you would consider spiritual before? no, why because its lies.. its fake... we are organisms living on a small rock in an ever expansive mass that we call a universe... our lives mean nothing, we live, we die, and thats it... we are nothing special at all...

Originally posted by Critical_Mass
Where is everyone's gods eh?

I know! They are all contributing toward how screwed up the world is!
You see, there are far too many gods in this world who ironically have never shown up, so stOOpid people take it upon themselves to do what they think is the work of their respective "god" and here we are all killing each other and stealing from one another. You know, because that's the way our god would have wanted it.

Is everone happy? have we found the "promised land"?

As if...

Exactly.... we as a species are causing the problems and we as a species can fix them! But people blame each other and never themselves, and use their own god to justify why they are better than everyone else.

Everyone is equally responsible for creating our own trash & problems on this world, and for clearing it up! This requires all to have the same mindset otherwise the circle breaks.

The multitude of comments about why people feel they are so special that a god would actually find the will to create them are all self-centred and self-righteous, and often hypocritical. It's all about what they want, and what they feel can only be correct, which is based on an individuals limited perception of reality, rather than long-standing critical thinking methodology's which provide real answers, even though many unknowns still remain.

Critical thinking skills have produced the very computer, laptop or whatever they are typing on. Yet they want to attribute our existence based on faith.... does their computer operate on faith alone?!!

[edit on 19-8-2009 by john124]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


At some point all humans will have the ability to remove the physical aspect from the god discussion and realize that god is not a being or entity but instead a life force that flows through all living things.

Each one of us has had experiences on both sides of the spectrum (good and bad) in one lifetime or another. We are here to experience duality in order to learn/grow as we evolve.

One part of me wants to take a baseball bat (or worse) and remove the rapist from existence. The other part of me try's to remember that he is just part of the puzzle that we are all piecing together as we progress. It's a tough balance....

I have said this and will always say this.

Whatever is "out there", and the reason we are here, we will NEVER understand it.

God or not, to me it is useless arguing to whatever it *may* be, because in the end we will still never fully understand.

On top of that, I see no benefit in believing in a god, besides the emotional help you give yourself; not from god.

Our existence is to learn as much as possible, and there will ALWAYS be something to learn, because some questions are not answerable.

I do not like to argue my side of life to anyone else, because chances are it is just as wrong as everyone else's opinion. Since that is the case, it is useless to even think about in such concrete ways as many of all of you do.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

Originally posted by dimensionaljumper

Evil is a state of mind.

Man is an animal, a creature that speaks in multiple languages.

Some men act on their instincts, others do not. Man without rule, is like a dog without a master. And we all read what happened to that elderly couple yesterday that were killed by the pack of wild dogs.

Man wants to make sense of the chaos, but many can't.

We were created to be a slave race. And then our creators left us to our own mischief. Slaves without a master. So now a few slaves try to control the rest of the slaves in the form of "governments", and lie to all of us about our true origins. Telling us we are sentient beings created by a loving god. Bull#e! If only they would tell us the truth, then at least humanity at a whole could come to grips with reality, and realize why we have the desires and instincts that we do.

The chaos that we know as our reality, is caused because man is currently at the top of the food chain of this planet. If our creators every return, order will be restored, and man will realize his true purpose. And the fantasy and lies of religion will die once and for all.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by dimensionaljumper]

Id say we are on about the same wave length, but it's not "If", it's "When".

I also think we have evolved into sentient beings, or perhaps, sentient slaves ready to awaken. However, the masses are not so understanding, they rely on there TV to stimulate there emotions, to find the answer's to there lives. Seeing the crap on the TV, im not surprised there is so much violence in the world, its on every channel, all day long!

Whatever we are, whoever created us, im sure we will find out in this Lifetime. To much tension in the world, to many strange thing's happening. To much Negative, not enough Positive.

The walls of Civilisation are starting to crumble, values and respect for others are disappearing, children are turning into murderer's, parents have lost interest relying on "Supper Nanny's" or just chucking them outside all-day and night. I lived on an estate in UK for some time, lot's of Kid's 5yrs and under outside past 10pm, some out till as late as Midnight. Our Governments are greedy and power hungry plotting against us while smiling to our face's and laughing behind our back's............ Something Wicked this way Comes.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by wraith001]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


For me nothing has hit closer to what God is then this.



"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."