Where is your God?!

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Angus123

 

And if God knows eons before I'm even born that he is going to create me, knowing the choices I will make in advance, then I no longer have a choice. It was his choice all along, because god can't be surprised and he can't be wrong.

God's knowledge of an event doesn't cause that event to happen. It's like watching a movie you've already seen. You know what's going to happen, but that doesn't cause those things to happen; they just happen. I could choose to get up (after posting this) and either watch TV or read a novel. God's knowledge doesn't influence my decision. I am free to do either activity; God knows which one I'll choose, but I'm still free to choose one.

The only way it could be destiny is if you knew what God knew about your future choices.

Yes his knowledge does affect events. If he knew what would happen before he decided to create everything, then his choice to create everything was his decision for those things to happen.

This is where religion implodes upon itself. Not that I expect the religious to grasp that simple truth anymore than I expect my cat to grasp how to drive a stick shift.

reply to post by Angus123

Not that I expect the religious to grasp that simple truth anymore than I expect my cat to grasp how to drive a stick shift.

The Truth is that God gives everyone the free will to either accept or reject Christ.

reply to post by Republican08


Theological arguments would posit that these are the sad realities resulting from our abuse of "free will." Arguments for the proposition that God would not allow these atrocities to happen if He existed often do not take into account the paradox of free will.

Religions are organizations of man - your experience should be a personal one. Keep your head up and keep searching!

reply to post by Angus123


You see life as a simple truth; I see life as a profound mystery. A mystery that will one day be made known to me however:

For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known. 1Cor 13:12

God can't be painted into some obscure corner where He was supposed to do this or supposed to that, according to what we as mere humans think. He loves you and He loves me, just as we are. That is not to say there aren't things about us He would like for us to change, but He isn't a rigid God, He gave us free will. He even gave us the will to love Him or reject Him. You would rather have a God that made a bunch of robots who will say and do exactly as they were programmed. God is way too modern and free-thinking for that.

reply to post by Toughiv

othersie our own individuality and freedom of

If you are created by an omnipotent,omniscent omnipresent the you cannot have freedom of choic, you may believe or appear to think or act independantly but this can only be an illusion.

reply to post by Bombeni


God can't be painted into some obscure corner where He was supposed to do this or supposed to that, according to what we as mere humans think

It was human thought tha created yahweh to begin with, prior to the bibles and the information in them in relation to Yahweh, this character was completely unknown .

reply to post by Republican08


What a pathetic argument against God.

Ever heard of free will?

Some people..

reply to post by moocowman


No you're wrong, Messiah was prophesied thousands of years ago, way before His birth. God spoke through the Prophets and they faithfully recorded His coming in the Old Testament. Just the prophecies of Jesus alone and how they were fulfilled in the minutest detail are enough to boggle the imagination. I think in amazement how these faithful men wrote these things that seemed so impossible at the time surely, and certainly at the risk of ridicule, seeing how the spirit of antichrist was alive then as it is now, this very minute, on this very forum.

Originally posted by Aree Laxyn
God this god that? there is no GOD, never was one never will be.
Can`t u get the Church brainwash out of your head? after 2000 years maybe it is to much to ask from a species that has been killing each other since man came to earth.

Wow, your statement is almost verbatim a dialogue between a priest and a demon in a book I recently read about an exorcism done back in the 1920's. Yiiiiikes.

Dear God

Please stop pretending that you don't know who you are. You pour your voice out one to another all day long here and no one sees you. Why don't you see you?

I don't know God? It's tough to have faith when I see you faithless. Why do you hide your face and not speak to these people? Why do you argue all day long about who you are?

I see you. Why can't you see you? Your innocents is forever....

Some don't care if you exist or not, some think you live in the clouds, some are awaiting a rapture, some are looking for ascendence, others wonder why you let horrible things happen, some don't consider the good you do, some need an excuse to fight, some say you are living then don't see they are living.

God, all of the things you think, all of the things I just listed, are only a small part of this conundrum only you can solve....I just wanted to tell you that I love you and I hope that we can turn from our vain ideas to see you again, because for some reason, you've forgotten who you are.

Granted we haven't really been doing a good job of being your body, but I'm lost as to why you won't make yourself known in the midsts of all these people speaking about and seeking you.

You hide in the the middle of them, fully visible to all and no one sees you....wow.

Why do they not see you? Are you so much ashamed of us you will forever hide your face? We all mess up, but will you never forgive as to make yourself known to the people you reside in unless you destroy us first?

I say this for you God. Your eyes read and your ears hear and your mouth speaks. Please don't hide your face much longer father of lights.

It is cold when you are not present. Forgive us and reveal yourself again.
Let us stand in you as we always have, but hid our faces. Scripture says, We have esteemed you not.

As you read this now, amazing creator, wake up. See your people. Forgive your people. We are only human, but you are life.

God, don't be a punk any longer.....WAKE UP!!!! We've been punked.

For your peoples sake.

For your sake.....please stop playing hide and seek.

Thanks for your time God

Hope to hear from you soon....

Sincerely,

You

Hmm.. indeed..

On the subject of us not being able to understand God's ways because we're not clever/enlightened enough etc.. How can people go round throwing comments in like 'God loves us all' etc, and claim to know and understand that he's all about the love, and cares about us all when apparantly we're too inferior to understand him in the first place? How is it possible that people can comprehend that part of God so well, yet have no chance of understanding anything else about him?

because they are still lying..

god can be understood,
if he is truth
he is logic
and logic is something you can understand,
but you are right,
it's double,
they try to convince others,
before they convinced themselves
if it is love, or care (even wrong, underdeveloped care) they bring it is okay
because their god and mine is one,
but if it is taking away of freedom
then they go against their own truths

but if they admit that
then maybe they have to let go of who they were,
their securities,
and that is difficult for everybody
loosing honor looks difficult for most people.




[edit on 25-8-2009 by pasttheclouds]

I think this should be "What is the Pinal Gland"
www.metacafe.com...

its really weird but - its a bio transmitter -
I did some thinking a few years back into Pinal Gland and
things like Love at First Sight -- Alpha's -- Instant Carizma.

there is something about ones promotions and responsibilities seems to be transmitted // and received as Leader and Blind Follower ..
Clinton is about the best example I can point too. he is rotton as the day is long - but you got to love the guy.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Angus123

 

Not that I expect the religious to grasp that simple truth anymore than I expect my cat to grasp how to drive a stick shift.

The Truth is that God gives everyone the free will to either accept or reject Christ.

Okay, if you go back and re-read I'm sure you can... oh nevermind. How you doing sugar?

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Toughiv

 

othersie our own individuality and freedom of

If you are created by an omnipotent,omniscent omnipresent the you cannot have freedom of choic, you may believe or appear to think or act independantly but this can only be an illusion.

It's much easier to just pat them on the head and smile sweetly than it is to try to get them to think logically dude. But cheers nonetheless!

reply to post by Republican08


You're choosing to fixate on the negative. The more you pay attention to the bad, the more you'll see it. Sure, there's a lot of horrible things going on, but there are a lot more good things if you think about it. Your worldview is a product of your own level of personal evolution. It doesn't take any talent to see the ugliness and imperfection in the world. It's easy to overlook the beautiful things, because they seem so insignificant next to the pedestal you've placed atrocity and suffering. The facts can be arranged to support any ideology, no matter how ridiculous. That doesn't make it true.

Just because horrible things have happened innumerable times throughout human history, doesn't mean they're happening this very second. There are seven billion people right now, but just seven thousand of them have been proven to lower incidences of violent crime, fatality, acts of terrorism, etc, by as much as seventy-two percent worldwide, just by gathering together and quieting their minds and feeling at peace. Your thoughts, and your feelings, and your beliefs determine your perception of reality and have a certain degree of tangible influence on it as well. I don't expect you to believe me, but you don't have to take my word for it. It's all been very well-documented and is widely available public information at this point.

We are the creators of the world we inhabit. If there is injustice, it is not the fault nor is it the responsibility of any god to rescue us from ourselves.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Syrus Magistus]

I read the last page (29) of this thread and the first days ago. I have been thinking about existence and my life maybe coming to an end for about 3 years now and trying to fight paranoia or feelings of foreshadowing. There is so much chaos in the world sometimes just by so many people sharing space of the infinite possibilities and lives out there. We are so beyond the other creatures on this planet and were given life and here for some reason but we also have conciousness and logic and choice. If you want to get philosophical or just consider life here is like heaven and just try to absorb it or cherish it for as long as you can and try to be extremely happy you are alive cause we might not know 100% were your going , I dont know maybe you almost died. If you consider your conchunce the good and bad of every choice you make then we are like lower gods here on earth , I dont know made in his image I guess. In video games you can make different choices and get different results and see the consequences of every choice. There is this game Fable where you can choose to be good or evil your choices matter and they affect things how you look your morals its just a game but it is a great analagy of life. I just used to be a person living a normal life but thing are just obvious just try to be a good person, I might have been a dumba** but I never seriously tried to hurt anyone or women or children . Just try to live out your life and enjoy yourself this is one of the greatest places in the world to be born with freedoms and a government that works. If you woke up in Rwanda where genocide is going on or a poor 3rd world nation with no food or AIDS running rampant.

reply to post by Bombeni

No you're wrong, Messiah was prophesied thousands of years ago, way before His birth. God spoke through the Prophets and they faithfully recorded His coming in the Old

Don't be ridiculous, yes "Messiahs" (plural) were spoken of in the old testament mention of jeuses though.

Isn't it weird how a people communicating with Yahweh are also discussing Yahweh in the guise of a messiah...

Nevertheless, I was alluding to your god Yahweh jesus being the invention of men and completely unknown outside of the bibles.

As we know, there is no evidence whatsoever of one moses being introduced to Yahweh as an event in reality.

All the gods of the time and earlier have been accounted for, needless to say the earliest being in Sumer.

So your god yahweh pops up out of nowhere around 3 and a half thousand years ago ? and enters the arena of hundreds of gods allready existing before Yahwhe.

If you disagree with this, please provide evidence of Yahweh being acquainted with man lets say in early Egypt ?

Any mention of Yahweh on the temple walls there? No
Why ?

Because Yahwhe did not exist then, he doesn't come on the scene till the early scribes mention it a billion years later.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Toughiv

 

othersie our own individuality and freedom of

If you are created by an omnipotent,omniscent omnipresent the you cannot have freedom of choic, you may believe or appear to think or act independantly but this can only be an illusion.

I highly disagree, that is because my definition of WHAT IT IS to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God differs from your own.

Words represent concepts. Concepts are SUBJECTIVE.

So this one is also to you angus. Please do not belittle me as if i am thinking illogically. I think you'll find i am rather logical in the statements i make.

Re-read the above, then get back to me

*p.s mite i add...why is it more logical to believe there is no god than there is?

[edit on 26-8-2009 by Toughiv]

[edit on 26-8-2009 by Toughiv]

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Angus123

 

Not that I expect the religious to grasp that simple truth anymore than I expect my cat to grasp how to drive a stick shift.

The Truth is that God gives everyone the free will to either accept or reject Christ.

Okay, if you go back and re-read I'm sure you can... oh nevermind. How you doing sugar?

You are choosing to openly reject Christ. Has anyone forced you into that decision?