Where is your God?!

reply to post by moocowman


Well of course Christians tell their children about the Ark; it was one of the most prolific of God's miracles.

Maybe you need some help in understanding the BASICS of ARK 101.

Was the ark's volume large enough to carry all the necessary types?

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15) which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah's family and range for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals needs for exercise anyway.

Even if we don't allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark's three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

reply to post by Bombeni


Really what is your point? You trying to say that a man called noah god knows how many thousands of years ago built a boat and collect 2 of every species and rounded them up in a boat and then god flooded the earth and so on?

you start by saying of course a xtian (lets refer to them as "the brainwashed" / "lost hopes") would tell the stories, and then tell us one!!!

reply to post by Syrus Magistus


I disagree with your concept of "think it and it will manifest" idea. Where if were to all quieten our minds and think of a better place it will come into existance. Please. Be reasonable.

This world is cause and effect. The thiking part limits the number of negative causes. Yet, effects still remain.

Cheers,

Brad.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Toughiv

 

I'm not "pushing" anything. I'm simply telling someone that they do in fact have free will, and their open rejection of Christ is proof of that.

Hi totakeke, I just want to add to your post, that as Christians it is actually our duty to share the Good News of Christ The Redeemer. That is something we are called to do. I know I don't want to stand before God and have Him say to me "Bombeni, you knew the truth but yet you didn't share it with others, and there were people who might have listened to your testimony but now we will never know..."

reply to post by Bombeni


In Genesis 6:19-21, it is written:

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
In Genesis 7:2-3, it is written:

Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.


Presumably, this contradictory set of instructions was no bother to Noah and to future Biblical literalists. If he takes seven pair, then he also takes two pair. And in some ancient esoteric traditions it is possible that seven means two. Also of no importance is that these flood stories appear to be cribbed from the neighboring Babylonians.

Even though the scientific evidence strongly indicates that the Babylonian texts are older than the Jewish texts, Bible believers know that can't be so. Therefore, the scientists are wrong. The Bible story is older. End of story.



[edit on 26-8-2009 by moocowman]

reply to post by Bombeni

that as Christians it is actually our duty to share the Good News of Christ The Redeemer. That is something we are called to d

I think you're not listening to what tothetek has to say, I'll explain lessons in manners 101.

I invite you to dinner as I believe your hungry but you politely decline. I was mistaken, you're not hungry after all but inform me that should you be hungry at any time, you may decide to take me up on the offer.


However your way of doing things would go like this -

I believe I have the best food in the world, I tell you all about my food but don't understand why you're not as exited about it as I am.

Every day I hint to you how good my food is, I turn at your house and leave you some burgers to try. I go to your kids school and take away (scuse the pun) their lunch insisting my chilli is the best and they should eat it.

You tell me time and again that you are vegans but I completely ignore it insisting, that you come to my house for dinner and you will never want to eat anything else again.

I keep on at you for months that you should be eating the food that I have, in spite of the fact that you are perfectly healthy and eat a nutritionally balanced die, I however am starting to look kind of pale and skinny.

Listen to your mate Bombeni he's starting to see the light.

reply to post by Bombeni


Have to use a quote here as I'm busy

Some Bible folks say he only needed to bring about 16,000 pairs of breeders. (He just needed to bring "kinds" of animals, not samples of each species, which some moronic interpreters think is the intended meaning.)

Others say that the number of species needed ranged from 1.5 million to 4 or 5 million. Of course, we're including insects and maybe a few bacteria or viruses.

Aquatic animals pose a minor problem since most can live only in sweet water or salt water but not both. A universal flood would mix the seas with the sweet water lakes, rivers, and streams.

i had been under the impression that the noah thing was 7 males, 7 females, in pairs. so i looked it up, and i notice there is something wrong with the english translation of it.

the word "all" is not actually in the verse and isn't in any of the other verses either. all is added by the translators because the word usage in hebrew is different than in english. in hebrew it might say something that gives the impression of all and not actually mean all - hebrew was often poetic and gave the sense of art and word mingled. that's why i say the english translation is not a good jumping off point for critique or sincere research of what the original words meant because they arrive at their message differently.

here's an example of what i mean, from strong's concordance search on the word "all", note how the word all in every case doesn't have the research strong's number right after it but rather after a phrase which begins with all? that's because it doesn't exist in the original language.

www.blueletterbible.org...

reply to post by undo


WHAAAAAAAAAAAT !! You mean all those bibles that are being waved around the place by millions of xtians. Telling everyone else how they should live according to those books are in error ?

The word of God has been misrepresented ?

Undo you may have just saved my soul from some very evil scribes who would be under the influence of Satan, i was just staring to believe the xtians.

Thank you so much, I wonder how many other errors are in these book?

Now that you've made the xtians aware of this perhaps they will take their books back to the shop and demand that they be replaced with a bible without errors.

That's one hell of a lot of paper shredding to be done !

Ok everyone here wants to bible bash let me ask you...

You have an all-knowing, all-loving, all powerful God. He make a man, then doesnt know that the man wants to bed a cow, so clones the opposite sex from his rib....wierd, why not just make her?

Then. he puts a tree in the middle of the garden and says do not eat it. BUT being all knowing, he knows that they will.

Then punishes them to suffering.

Seems like a clever, amazing, loving God to me!!

HOORAY WE ARE SAVED

reply to post by moocowman


lol i'm a christian (you knew that yes?). "study to prove yourself worthy" it says. so that's what i'ma doin'.

hebrew is a difficult language to translate. the king james folks had hebrew scholars to help with the translation, some of which were jewish. so they did put a good effort into the translation, but considering the time differential, cultural differences and the latin and greek versions that preceeded it, it's not a surprise that some concepts were slightly different in context. for example, the word "all" is in the latin and greek versions as well, so it isn't just the english that has this particular word.

another problem is, that hebrew text can often be preceeded or followed by things that help to understand context of the original word and alot of critiques get snagged up at that point, not realizing that their answer is in the verse, it's just pointing at the word separately and in a way that the english language would not do.

reply to post by undo

lol i'm a christian (you knew that yes?).

No I forgot lol hey what the hell no worries I've already forgiven you and I'm sure you'll forgive me lol

reply to post by undo


Should try learning welsh dude it's a nightmare , here's a lighthearted vid (completely off topic) from a local dude discussing welsh. Cheer us up till Bombeni comes back to haunt me again LOl

reply to post by Toughiv

You have an all-knowing, all-loving, all powerful God. He make a man, then doesnt know that the man wants to bed a cow, so clones the opposite sex from his rib....wierd, why not just make her?

I think I know why, but I want to be completely sure before I answer this.

Then. he puts a tree in the middle of the garden and says do not eat it. BUT being all knowing, he knows that they will.

He put the tree in the garden because He wanted us to choose to love Him on our own. He knew we'd eat off of it, but He wanted us to have free will. Having free will means we get to make our own decisions.

reply to post by moocowman






erm, second line line below the other line line line
precept upon precept, line upon line.

[edit on 26-8-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by Toughiv
Then. he puts a tree in the middle of the garden and says do not eat it. BUT being all knowing, he knows that they will.

Then punishes them to suffering.

Seems like a clever, amazing, loving God to me!!

HOORAY WE ARE SAVED

Its insane isnt it. If adam & eve hadnt eaten from that tree then technically the idea of being worthy enough to go to heaven wouldnt even exist as they would have no experience of suffering, and so no reason to appreciate the good things.
So he must have intended for them to do it, otherwise the world would have just been full of people who for all intents and purposes would be robots.

reply to post by Bluebelle


I heard where the garden of eden is located.
A long time ago the level of the oceans was 400 feet lower than it is today.
The garden of eden is located in the middle of the Persian Gulf.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


euphrates river has added an additional 69 mlies of shoreline to iraq out into the gulf, so it may be buried under the "new" section of euphrates

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by Bluebelle

 

I heard where the garden of eden is located.
A long time ago the level of the oceans was 400 feet lower than it is today.
The garden of eden is located in the middle of the Persian Gulf.

Is it next to atlantis?

God obviously has no gardening skills, 400ft of water is over-watering it just a tad.

reply to post by Bluebelle


Funny you should mention Atlantis.
Atlantis is 400 feet underwater just north of Grand Cayman Island.
Some American treasure hunters were looking for sunken Spanish gold.
They stumbled onto the Atlantis Capitol City with side scanning sonar.
Check out Google Earth. They have underwater topography now!
You can see that if you lower the oceans 400 feet Cuba and the
Cayman Islands were one island. - Atlantis -