Ancient Cities found under the ocean in India

reply to post by zorgon


When a stone was cut (or added to a wall) cannot be determined without using carbon dating of organic materials associated with them.

Only the age of the stone itself can be determined, the "clock" starts when the fluid rock solidifies. Also, radiometric dating can only be used on igneous or metamorphic stone, not sedimentary.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by Phage]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by tristar

 

Did someone say Troy was a myth? I said it was a part of mythology. Athens is a part of mythology too and it ain't a myth.

The fact that city of Troy was found does not make the Iliad any less of a myth. The fact that the Dwarka of the Bhagavad Gita may have been found does not mean that the tales of Krishna are factual.

[edit on 8/17/2009 by Phage]

One must come to a point and take a stand, either Troy is or was myth or its not. Athens being part of myth has no comparison to Troy. Athens was a polis , crati and it survived with its diverse cultures, there is no myth regarding Athens. That is no myth, its a fact.

Like i have posted, if we compare mythology to our modern society, we should seriously consider ourselves similar to mammals from the stone age era.

reply to post by tristar

One must come to a point and take a stand, either Troy is or was myth or its not.

How so? Troy is a geographical, archaeological location. It's a UNESCO World Heritage Site. It's also a place the Greek gods squabbled over. Helen of Troy was thought to be the daughter of Zeus. Odysseus' adventures involved more gods, moving rocks and half-human Sirens.

It's both mythical and substantially real. Think of Romulus and Remus. Rome is real and yet has mythical origins

reply to post by Kandinsky


we soon have forgotten the last trojan war where two professors at the same university battled over whether it was troy or not. how it ended up in court even and how mercedes benz funded one side [seemingly the winning but loosing in court] of the argument.



[edit on 21-8-2009 by Parta]

reply to post by Parta
The point stands that a location can be part of mythology and reality at the same time. The reality of the location doesn't necessarily corroborate the reality of the myth. Argos exists, but did Perseus use flying sandals and shield to behead a gorgon?

reply to post by Kandinsky


whats in a name... i think is the point at wilusa. it always has and always will be... a mass marketing campaign, branding by mercedes.

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Sunken City Off India Coast -
7500 B. C.?

February 16, 2002 Surat, India - A month ago in mid-January, marine scientists in India announced they had sonar images of square and rectangular shapes about 130 feet down off the northwestern coast of India in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay). Not only are their sonar shapes with 90-degree angles, the Indian Minister of Science and Technology ordered that the site be dredged. What was found has surprised archaeologists around the world and was the subject of a private meeting two weeks ago attended by the Indian Minister in charge of investigating the underwater site about thirty miles off the coast from Surat.

An American who traveled to that private meeting was Michael Cremo, researcher in the history of archaeology for the Bhakti Vedanta Institute in India and author of the book Forbidden Archaeology. I talked with him today in India about the dredging operation, what the ocean engineers found and the implications of first carbon dating of artifacts at more than 9,000 years.

reply to post by SLAYER69

There is nothing new in that article.

The problem with radiodating wood from a submerged site is that wood floats (before it becomes waterlogged). The area is said to have very strong currents (the reason there has been no diving on the site). There is no way to determine if the wood which was dated is associated with the "structures". It could have come from anywhere.

I wonder why no one has sent an ROV down there for a good look (NIOT seems to have one). It seems the last expedition was in 2004.


[edit on 8/30/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
I wonder why no one has sent an ROV down there for a good look (NIOT seems to have one). It seems the last expedition was in 2004.

Well until it's proven it is just another tantalizing bit of circumstantial evidence I'll give you that. I am in agreement about your comment regarding the use of a ROV. For some reason with anything regarding archeological sites in and around India it involves controversy and hesitation.

Speaking of Troy and Greece earlier. I found these. The first one is a representation of what that area looked like around the same period in question.

Prehistoric Crete

Cretan history is surrounded by myths (such as those of the king Minos; Theseus and the Minotaur; and Daedalus and Icarus) that have been passed to us via Greek historian/poets (such as Homer).

Because of a lack of written records, estimates of Cretan chronology are based on well-established Aegean and Ancient Near Eastern pottery styles, so that Cretan timelines have been made by seeking Cretan artifacts traded with other civilizations (such as the Egyptians) - a well established occurrence. For the earlier times, radiocarbon dating of organic remains and charcoal offers independent dates. Based on this, it is thought that Crete was inhabited from the 7th millennium BC onwards.

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Minoan civilization

The oldest evidence of inhabitants on Crete are preceramic Neolithic farming community remains that date to approximately 7000 BC.[8] A comparative study of yDNA haplogroups of modern Cretan men showed that a male founder group came from Anatolia or the Levant, like the Greeks.[9] See History of Crete for details.

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With the mounting evidence. I can't understand modern academia's resistance to the possibility of such sites. When if we step back and separate the Myth's from the equation and look at purely scientifically it makes sense.

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The Development of the Anatolian Aceramic Neolithic Package
11000 B.C. to 6000 B.C.

The basic assemblage that comprised the Neolithic package developed between 11000 B.C. and 7000 B.C. in places like Tell es-Sultan (Jericho) in the Levant among the Natufians and Pinarbasi in southwestern Anatolia. This was an amazingly innovative and creative period in human recorded history. For the first time large groups of people came together in an interdependent way to solve their problems of survival and to improve their quality of life by settling permanently in areas of natural abundance. The specialization of productive labor that spread its benefits to everyone is perhaps the greatest revolution in human socialization.

In about 10200 B.C. houses were being built in Hallan Çemi Tepesi in eastern Anatolia where they used stone incised bowls and made extensive use of wild plants and animals. The site has some of the earliest evidence of possible pig domestication. The settlement of Cayönü was formed in 8500 B.C. in southeastern Anatolia and developed elaborate buildings with terrazzo floors. They used awls and fishhooks of cold-hammered native copper, and show the earliest evidence of the possible use of flax to weave linen textiles. At about this same time Nevali Cori built monumental stone structures that were probably shrines. After 8000 B.C. Asikli Höyük became a real town surrounded by a city wall with a large obsidian industry. Over the next 2,000 years these trends toward urbanization culminated in the settlements of Çatal Höyük and Can Hasan in Anatolia.

Query.... Could these foundations of civilizations simply be the result of mass migration inland or up to higher ground aka mountains which became islands away from the rising Mediterranean? People forced to migrate then came together? Seems every bit as plausible as any other theory. Also lets not forget these anomalies from around the same location and time frame.

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The most recent building phase at Göbekli Tepe (Level II) has been dated both comparatively and absolutely (C14) to ca 8,000 BC, with an earlier primary building phase (Level III) ending as early as 9,000 BC. The age of the earliest occupation cannot yet be determined; the depth of the deposit, however, would suggest a period of several millennia, which signifies that the site had already existed in early Paleolithic times.

How was it explained in the Dialog again?

When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient.

Anatolia History

Eastern Anatolia contains the oldest monumental structures in the world. For example, the monumental structures at Göbekli Tepe were built by hunters and gatherers a thousand years before the development of agriculture. Eastern Anatolia is also a heart region for the Neolithic revolution, one of the earliest areas in which humans domesticated plants and animals. Neolithic sites such as Çatalhöyük, Çayönü, Nevali Cori and Hacilar represent the world's oldest known agricultural villages.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


The ROV would risk everything we have been 'given' about ancient history. The sheer fact that what could be exposed before any cover up could happen is your answer.

EDit to say, simply stunning pictures in your post Slayer, I am floored by this evidence and the lack of my knowing, why do they keep such subjects for higher education and not in the lower which I did well in? This is the kind of information that fresh young minds could take to towering heights.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by antar]

the only true reason they're under water is because they got submerged...
thought ud know that by now.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, in a way, people *did* know about the land bridge to Sri Lanka. It is mentioned in Ramayana. IIRC, it was built by the animals who were marching to save Sita from her kidnapper. But maybe it was built by the gods. I don't recall for sure.

Anyway, assuming that Ramayana is fiction, it seems likely that this bridge was at least partially visible during the time Ramayana was composed, or at least during the time when this particular story was created. This would support the notion that ocean levels actually did rise, though of course it doesn't confirm that any ancient, advanced civilizations existed and were inundated. It's just one more intriguing possibility.

Hi,
It seems this was discovered in 2002, I have searched for newer articles on this, but no luck yet. Will have to cary on the search... This is very interesting, and for some reason I have a feeling that it's not a lie or made up story. This world brings us many surprises, and it just shows us how little we accually know, for now. So, I'll have to go do a whole lot of reading before I decide to comment here. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and if this civilization is 9500 years old, I will be amazed. I think it would bring a whole new meaning into how we see our time on this planet.

Even if we don't know what the cultural background of the people is, if it does happen to be a city that is 9500 years old, that is older than the Sumerian civilization by several thousand years. It is older than the Egyptian, older than the Chinese. So it would radically affect our whole picture of the development of urban civilization on this planet.

Aegean Sea

The current coastline dates back to about 4000 BC. Before that time, at the peak of the last ice age (c. 16,000 BC) sea levels everywhere were 130 metres lower, and there were large well-watered coastal plains instead of much of the northern Aegean. When they were first occupied, the present-day islands including Milos with its important obsidian production were probably still connected to the mainland. The present coastal arrangement appeared c. 7000 BC, with post-ice age sea levels continuing to rise for another 3000 years after that.[1]

[edit on 31-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Aegean Sea

The current coastline dates back to about 4000 BC. Before that time, at the peak of the last ice age (c. 16,000 BC) sea levels everywhere were 130 metres lower, and there were large well-watered coastal plains instead of much of the northern Aegean. When they were first occupied, the present-day islands including Milos with its important obsidian production were probably still connected to the mainland. The present coastal arrangement appeared c. 7000 BC, with post-ice age sea levels continuing to rise for another 3000 years after that.[1]

In reference to your earlier post too, I too find it amazing that the discoveries made in Anatolia are not discussed in the mainstream. The sites are amazing and the finds, in terms of art and 'representations' remarkable. Catal Hoyuk was first excavated in 1961, Gobeklitepe in 1965 and yet they are still largely unknown outside of archaeological circles.

These settlements originate from the period of the glacial melt. Sites found between the black sea and the caucaus also point to a movement upland, the black sea culture, which would have up to then been an inland fresh water lake, would have been destroyed when the Bosphurus breached and admitted warm sea waters.

Approximately 11,600 years ago the Earth experienced a sudden increase in temperatures, over about 50 years, that led to the glacial retreat. Hancock and Bauval have demonstrated how the Sphinx shows evidence of exposure to regular rainfall over a significant period of time, and to regular, seasonal flooding. The warming event however marks the point at which that regions climate changed from temperate to dessification. The sphinx clearly must have been present therefore prior to the this climate change. Once you accept that, it is common sense to realise that other stone building civilisations may have been effected by this series of events.

The Jomon people of the Sunda Shelf, in what is now the waters around Japan are known to have had a civilisation during the Ice Age, and that this was severly disrupted by the rise in sea levels which forced them to move to the higher ground which now forms the Japanese Islands.

Additionally, in the Northern Hemisphere, human migratory routes were reopened, and those who had remained in the North were able to move south to pastures green, and in regions where whole glaciers were ripping apart the landscape as they melted and came free from the land, there may have been some necessity to move. Groups of people removed from each other for centuries began to come into contact with each other again. Many of the myths once absorbed into this whole landscape of events and activities makes a great deal of sense. Bible included.

The sites in Anatolia were to my mind, settled by peoples who were retreating from rising flood waters, they were most likely made up of coastal and lake dwellers, and probably had had to abandon other established settlements. Catal Hoyuk and Gobekliptepe seem to have been abandoned around the same time as the Hittite empire emerged.

I've gone way off-topic, but to bring it into context, it is clear from the near east that civilisation was disrupted by the rise in sea levels and climate change. Given the rapid recovery that ocurred in the near East and the subsequent cultural explosion, that is mirrored in Asia, it makes perfect sense that sites like this must exist along coastlines and particularly around archapelagos. The reason that it doesn't seem to be discussed in the mainstream is because it does help to expound upon our understanding of what is myth and what is history.

you guys sure don't give europe much credit. it was the technology center of the planet for 30kys. it should be remembered that they were weaving and firing clay and living in permanent open air villages and creating amazing art and playing music well before the glaciers went away and were still at it exactly the same way well after.

they had a "new sea" problem ... [ history channel ] as discussed in the 6th minute of this video. don't hear about that sea much do you.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Sunken City Off India Coast -
7500 B. C.?

...the Indian Minister of Science and Technology ordered that the site be dredged...

Brilliant.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/729134abde8e.jpg[/atsimg]

Proof that idiocy is a World Wide phenomena.





[edit on 31-8-2009 by RoofMonkey]

reply to post by Parta



Here in lies the problem IMO....


I think what you have alluded to is one of the reasons why we are missing some of our history. Yes Europe has a great, long and distinguished history. No doubt. But we are discussing the possibility of mans long hard fight for survival which is not a long straight line of development.

No offense but I think Euro centric historians in the back halls and boardrooms of Europe have caused some of the problems still to this day

Europe is not the center of mans history.


Thanks for the video link on the history of Budapest.


reply to post by coodeytar


Well on the surface it may seem [Off-Topic] but we are discussing a global event. Which would have affected locations not just in India but locations everywhere. It's collaborating evidence and very relevant IMO.