The Fear of Hell is the Key to Control the Masses

It is not the key.
There is no God,no Devil...no Hell.

There are many reasons why we are controlled and many ways 'they' seem to do it. For me 'Hell' is not one of them.

I'm about as scared of going to Hell as i am of being killed by a unicorn.

Here is the problem. You are trying to base your opinion of God on what you see in us lowly pathetic humans. We humans are a bunch of idiots most of the time. Even though we are supposed to provide an example for the world of who God is we fail miserably. Even the best Christian can never compare.
Read the bible if you haven't already and try to forget everything you have ever been taught by man. Make your judgement about God based on who the bible says he is not what man says he is. That's all I am asking.

Hell is an extra-biblical concept, and does not exist as a place in true christianity. It was invented by the papacy long ago as a means to control through fear. The literal translations from the old languages refer to the grave, the pit, or Sheoul, which was a large burning pit for dead bodies, diseased, and criminals in ancient jerusalem. The corrupting translation process is responsible for many modern confusions and discrepancies in the bible, as you are reading a book that has been translated and retranslated many times, each time losing some of the intended message.

In the Bible, not ONCE does anyone go to heaven OR hell when they die. Jesus even says the dead know nothing, they are in the ground. That's all. The entire idea of going to "heaven" if you're good or going to hell if you're "bad" was simply created to drive Church attendance, and to promote giving money to the church, so you can secure your spot in heaven. Rubbish.

The bible is pretty clear in conveying that when Jesus returns, the dead will be ressurected to be judged along with the living... Those that chose the path of knowledge and vanity will be cast in the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, to be punished for a time (not eternity). Those that chose the path of righteousness will live in God's new kingdom which will be heaven on Earth. Until that time, the dead are rotting in the ground, nothing more, and no human is in heaven or hell. '

We are material and spirit in nature. All things physical perish, only the spirit is forever. Man is foolish and has a tendency to only consider what his limited senses are telling him, all the while oblivious to the greater nature of reality. What's important is how you live your life, and how you treat others. No building erected by man can house the LORD. Don't be decieved, Church-goers!!

[edit on 9-8-2009 by mostlyspoons]

I don't think that most people, at least in the US, are motivated by a fear of hell. Fear of hell isn't a good way to control the vast majority of people because they simply don't believe it.

Threaten to cut them off from TV and the Internet, and you'll own them. Threaten them with hell, you'll only amuse them.

reply to post by chiron613


Maybe you're only talking about yourself. . . ?

The fear of Hell can obviously only affect those who believe in the first place.

Originally posted by mostlyspoons
Hell is an extra-biblical concept, and does not exist as a place in true christianity. It was invented by the papacy long ago as a means to control through fear. The literal translations from the old languages refer to the grave, the pit, or Sheoul, which was a large burning pit for dead bodies, diseased, and criminals in ancient jerusalem. The corrupting translation process is responsible for many modern confusions and discrepancies in the bible, as you are reading a book that has been translated and retranslated many times, each time losing some of the intended message.

In the Bible, not ONCE does anyone go to heaven OR hell when they die. Jesus even says the dead know nothing, they are in the ground. That's all. The entire idea of going to "heaven" if you're good or going to hell if you're "bad" was simply created to drive Church attendance, and to promote giving money to the church, so you can secure your spot in heaven. Rubbish.




The bible is pretty clear in conveying that when Jesus returns, the dead will be ressurected to be judged along with the living... Those that chose the path of knowledge and vanity will be cast in the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, to be punished for a time (not eternity). Those that chose the path of righteousness will live in God's new kingdom which will be heaven on Earth. Until that time, the dead are rotting in the ground, nothing more, and no human is in heaven or hell. '

We are material and spirit in nature. All things physical perish, only the spirit is forever. Man is foolish and has a tendency to only consider what his limited senses are telling him, all the while oblivious to the greater nature of reality. What's important is how you live your life, and how you treat others. No building erected by man can house the LORD. Don't be decieved, Church-goers!!

[edit on 9-8-2009 by mostlyspoons]

You my friend are 100% correct. The dead are in the ground, otherwise there would be no need for a ressurection. They are dead and their flesh has rotted. Hell is the grave, and eternal damnation is eternal destruction.

Yes, there is a great deal of fear preached in some fundamentalist denominations. I was raised in some of that, and it is a debilitating belief system. But, I tell you, these people are wounded, and are seeking anything for comfort. They are overwhelmed by fear. They must have their mental security blankets, or so they believe.

That being said, I see many atheists, so in fear that their lives have meaning, because they cannot discern the meaning. Because they cannot perceive a meaning, they seek to obfuscate meaning in general. It is another product of the division.

Their is an integrational spirit sweeping the air, however. The problems and the reactions, the oppositional views, they are flowing through a steady stream of dialogues, ever-increasing in frequency. I believe that we in this world are coming to a convergence, and it is not what many fear. It involves the absence of fear. The oppositional angles will have to stare a certain amount of their destruction in the face (or better said, in the mirror), however, but hopefully it will be soon.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

No one suffers for eternity in hell but they will descend there if they have too many strong worldly attachments. Fear is not a bad thing. It should be a motivator and a check to the mind helping to limit further degeneration.

However, hell and the other manipulations are used to subjugate people to false authority.

I think a lot of it is they not so much want to go to heaven, they just don't want to go to hell. Honestly if you look at the concept of heaven, it sounds kind of boring. So, obviously not a huge selling point for them. All they need to do is make the opposite less appealing.

Heck look at the garden of eden tale, god says don't eat from the tree of knowledge. Why would you want to keep that from the beings you made in your own image? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Then along comes the serpent who says "hey, open your eyes to what's really going on!" Sure the garden was probably a great place, but god wanted you essentially blind to the possibilities so you were easier to control.

Sounds a lot like modern day government and religion.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by helen670

 

If Judas Iscariot was once a chosen Apostle of Jesus Christ, then what can we say for the many priests of today?

Of course he was chosen (if there's any truth in the story) by jesus yawhe to do the dirty deed.

Think about it, if judas didn't do what he was supposed to do then your crucifixion goes out the window.

So obviously poor old Judas had no choice in the matter, needless to say his lawyers would have struck a deal and kept him out of hell, as he was a victim of entrapment.

Hi moocowman/

Actually Judas had a choice in the matter.
He could have changed his mind, but he chose to take the money and then guilt took over and because of his PRIDE he decided to end it all.

The Sacrifice of Jesus Christ was what needed to be done..Luke 23:1-5


12So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews arrested Jesus and bound him. 13First they(M) led him to(N) Annas, for he was the father-in-law of(O) Caiaphas, who was high priest that year. 14It was Caiaphas who had advised the Jews(P) that it would be expedient that one man should die for the people.

John 18:12-14


19(U) The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. 20Jesus answered him, "I have spoken(V) openly(W) to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together.(X) I have said nothing in secret. 21Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them; they know what I said." 22When he had said these things, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying,(Y) "Is that how you answer the high priest?" 23Jesus answered him, "If what I said is wrong, bear witness about the wrong; but if what I said is right, why do you strike me?" 24(Z) Annas then sent him bound to Caiaphas the high priest.

John 18:19-24
28(AE) Then they led Jesus(AF) from the house of Caiaphas to(AG) the governor’s headquarters.[e] It was early morning.
They themselves did not enter the governor’s headquarters,(AH) so that they would not be defiled,(AI) but could eat the Passover.
29(AJ) So Pilate went outside to them and said, "What accusation do you bring against this man?"
30They answered him, "If this man were not doing evil, we would not have delivered him over to you."
31Pilate said to them,(AK) "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law." The Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death."
32(AL) This was to fulfill the word that Jesus had spoken(AM) to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Why was a SACRIFICE NEEDED?
Why did not PILATE do this himself?
Some questions to ponder!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by mostlyspoons

In the Bible, not ONCE does anyone go to heaven OR hell when they die. Jesus even says the dead know nothing, they are in the ground. That's all. The entire idea of going to "heaven" if you're good or going to hell if you're "bad" was simply created to drive Church attendance, and to promote giving money to the church, so you can secure your spot in heaven. Rubbish.

The bible is pretty clear in conveying that when Jesus returns, the dead will be ressurected to be judged along with the living... Those that chose the path of knowledge and vanity will be cast in the lake of fire with Satan and his minions, to be punished for a time (not eternity). Those that chose the path of righteousness will live in God's new kingdom which will be heaven on Earth. Until that time, the dead are rotting in the ground, nothing more, and no human is in heaven or hell. '

I agree in part with your post. However I still feel your views are heavily influenced by Christianity. I have had contact with spirit and can be fairly sure that the dead are not "rotting in the ground", only the bodies we leave behind when we go. The love from Heaven is there for all of us who wish to echo it on the Earth. That way we are all aligned with Heaven.

And those who choose the path of knowledge will be cast in the fire? This God promotes ignorance then? Surely it's not the knowledge we acquire that matters, it is how we use it. A truly responsible person can never know enough.

Judgement is our own evaluation of our progress. It is our own mark of achievement, our record of where we have put ourselves. Our inheritance is what we have learned and acquired through action and experience. I'm afraid I can't buy into the idea of an external authority judging us and doing with us as he/she/it wants. Unless we really are just sheep, without rights as eternal beings. Instinct can tell us what is right and good, and if we are truly in touch with our instincts we cannot surely fail.

I hope you are not offended by my post. You are entitled to your views as much as anyone else. I took myself "outside the box" a long time ago to look at the Universe from a perspective of spirituality, and I find that organised religion (especially that which makes us subservient) has very little to offer for our true spiritual growth.

Originally posted by Hypntick
I think a lot of it is they not so much want to go to heaven, they just don't want to go to hell. Honestly if you look at the concept of heaven, it sounds kind of boring. So, obviously not a huge selling point for them. All they need to do is make the opposite less appealing.

Heck look at the garden of eden tale, god says don't eat from the tree of knowledge. Why would you want to keep that from the beings you made in your own image? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Then along comes the serpent who says "hey, open your eyes to what's really going on!" Sure the garden was probably a great place, but god wanted you essentially blind to the possibilities so you were easier to control.

Sounds a lot like modern day government and religion.

I couldn't agree more.

reply to post by A Fortiori


Hello! *waves*

I don't believe that Jesus only contacts Christians. The native American medicine man, Fools Crow, spoke of Jesus, Thich Nat Hanh (a Buddhist) feels "connected" to Jesus,

That's interesting isn't it, now I've met quite a few non believers who have followed the bibles instructions on contacting jesus I've even done so myself. Nope, no appearance at all, not even a little whisper.

Interestingly enough, there was a poster on ATS recently who is an xtian but had actually quit because jesus didn't appear to him especially at a real bad time of his life.


It would be fair to say that most xtians claim that jesus appeared to them, but upon further inquiry it ofte turns out that-

"Well he spoke to me in spirit " or "He gave me a sign" or "he speaks to me through the word" etc.

It would appear that no the whole, when claims are made for jesus appearing, like the woman in question. He appears to the converted, this woman didn't need him to appear she was already an xtian.

One would have thought that if jesus needed to get the message across about hell so dramatically, then he would have shown up at my house and whisked me off to hell for a visit.

Obviously your average intelligent non believer is certainly not going to believe this woman's experience is anything more than a delusion or an outright fabrication.

The anecdote serves no purpose than frightening little children or giving xtians more urban legends to chirp about after church.

Your tag says you hate what Christians do. I work in soup kitchens--creatively so, making gourmet food for them so they feel loved.

.




Ahhhh your gourmet food is making me hungry, would sure make a change from burgers and spag bol lol. next time your around my way please feel free to drop in and show me how its' done properly.

Why do you hate what I do? Is any of that bad?

Why on earth should I hate your cooking, especially for people without ?

Would you not do these highly commendable things if you were not a christian ?


What is your position on your Yahweh jesus gods' view on, eating blood or being a homosexual, teaching little children that a man lived inside a fish, that slaves should be beaten till their almost dead, or that if your new wife is not a virgin then she should be killed ?

reply to post by helen670

Hi moocowman/ Actually Judas had a choice in the matter. He could have changed his mind, but he chose to take the money and then guilt took over and because of his PRIDE he decided to end it all.

Please explain how Judas had a choice ? Your scripture quotes do nothing to solve this conundrum.

It is alleged that all is the yaweh jesus gods' plan, now clearly everything is going to plan. After all how would it be possible for the plan of an omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent creator of everything to go wrong ?

If Judas hadn't turned jesus over then the guy wouldn't have gotten crucified and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Needless to say gods' plan would have gone right out the window and would necessitate a plan B, which would imply god screwed up because he didn't know whether Judas would turn him in or not.

Of course if he knew that jusads would turn him in, (which he would have to if he knows everything) then a plan B would not have needed to be considered in the first place. Obviously this would imply that plan A was the only plan and therefore Judas was just doing what was planned by god so choice doesn't come into it.




Edit to say Hi back






[edit on 10-8-2009 by moocowman]

reply to post by calstorm

Here is the problem. You are trying to base your opinion of God on what you see in us lowly pathetic humans. We humans are a bunch of idiots most of the time.

Created in the likeness of god or "gods", hm, can see where all the rape, genocide, torture, slavery, misogyny,and pedophilia comes from then

reply to post by calstorm

Nope, no fear here. Fear comes from satan.

So fear comes from Satan and love comes from god, not much room for independent thought here is there ?

Pick a card, any card you fancy, as long as is the joker, pick anything else and you die.

Thank goodness we no longer believe in the principles of the relicary, whereby if we touched the bones of a "saint" we'd somehow become "cleansed", "holy", or "saved".

Christianity is all about named individuals, not general principles. It's always "follow Jesus", not "learn to show love". It's "worship God", not "raise your vibrations".

True judgement is from our own love of ourselves, it is the way we evaluate ourselves with total honesty. It is not God sitting on a big throne like Judge Jeffries. It is our own ability and desire to be honest with ourselves.

Judgement of the Biblical sort brings us closer to the principles of the Taliban. Would you live as they live? Would you think as they think? Of course not.

True Heaven is freedom to move amongst others and be in harmony. True Hell is the opposite, it is entrapment with your enemies closing in.

Again, no offence to those of you who do not see as I do on this matter. All I will say to you is lose the fear and find the love.

Originally posted by Tommy Wylie



I have had contact with spirit and can be fairly sure that the dead are not "rotting in the ground",

You have had contact with spirit? how do you know that these or this spirit or spirits were the spirits of dead people? and not demons playing tricks?
www.creationists.org...

reply to post by peaceonearth
Sorry but you are still showing the kind of fear that allows us to be controlled and dominated, the kind of fear that makes us believe in Hell, and therefore also believe in anything set up to save us from it. Please lose this fear.

I was about six years old. I was walking across the living room towards Dad, who had just entered the room. Suddenly I realised I could see two women above me. It was like looking up through a hole. I could not see Dad, just these two ladies. They were kind ladies, and I felt the strong love they showed for me. Unfortunately Dad thought I was having a blackout and shook me back out of my vision, worried about what was wrong with me. But I was not having a blackout. While having the vision, I was still aware of Dad and the room, but my attention was fixed on those two ladies. They did not say or do anything, they just showed themselves and I felt the love. It was almost too strong.

My father was also a natural psychic. He never developed his ability as he had been indoctrinated that anything psychic was the work of the Devil. Control through fear. The work of the church.

As for demons, again, trust your instinct.

No offence intended if you feel my views are attacking your own beliefs, I am speaking from my perspective as you are speaking from yours.

reply to post by moocowman


Can i say hi?


The SACRIFICE of Jesus Christ happened so that it was an END of all the other sacrifices....Jesus said His house was a house of PRAYER and not all other goings on.
In the Old Testament,human sacrifice to gods was always condemned!
God wanted an end to such bloodshed...
In the Old Testament prophets wer killed because of their testimonies of the One True God...people were warned and they still continued into their evil ways...
Everyone has a choice in what one does...the Ultimate choice of which side to take.
God is all knowing, but also leaves one to continue in their choice of path.
You are correct, if it wasn't Jdas, it would have been someone else.
The same with the Antichrist...he will have a choice to do the evil work of Satan...when the times are ready and evil is at its fullest,the antichrist will do his evil work of being Satans Slave...if the times are not right, life will go on till another EVIL is found.
Very similar to when we think of doing something bad or good....our conscience is a reminder of what the consequences might be if we do or dont.
We have a choice in what we do...even when condemned we have that choice!

ICXC NIKA
helen