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The Fear of Hell is the Key to Control the Masses

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posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by helen670
 


Hi back to you Helen


Your response did not address the problem of gods plan in that a plan is a design/instruction.

In order for judas not to have turned jesusyahweh over there would have to be another plan making it so.

What you seem to be implying is that all possible outcomes have been created. All well and good and therefor precluding free will as all are planned/created/designed by the creator.

If however, your implying that another plan (plan B) is created in response to a choice being made (such as Judas) then this would imply that the creator was unaware of the outcome of the choice, which would preclude omniscience of god.
.............................................................................................

jesus did not make any sacrifice, why ?

Because he did not and could not die, if it claimed he died in human form then this must be the biggest blag of all time.

If jesus died in human form, what sacrifice was made ? He was alive again in three days and didn't fear anything. Everyone else had to suffer crucifixion (one would assume this included the 2 thieves either side of jesus) for the whole duration up to 10 days of torture, jesus seemed to have got off lightly in comparison.

By definition a sacrifice implies the permanent loss of something by the holder, jesusyawhew lost nothing so no sacrifice was made.




posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by helen670
 


Hi back to you Helen


Your response did not address the problem of gods plan in that a plan is a design/instruction.

In order for judas not to have turned jesusyahweh over there would have to be another plan making it so.

What you seem to be implying is that all possible outcomes have been created. All well and good and therefor precluding free will as all are planned/created/designed by the creator.

If however, your implying that another plan (plan B) is created in response to a choice being made (such as Judas) then this would imply that the creator was unaware of the outcome of the choice, which would preclude omniscience of god.
.............................................................................................

jesus did not make any sacrifice, why ?

Because he did not and could not die, if it claimed he died in human form then this must be the biggest blag of all time.

If jesus died in human form, what sacrifice was made ? He was alive again in three days and didn't fear anything. Everyone else had to suffer crucifixion (one would assume this included the 2 thieves either side of jesus) for the whole duration up to 10 days of torture, jesus seemed to have got off lightly in comparison.

By definition a sacrifice implies the permanent loss of something by the holder, jesusyawhew lost nothing so no sacrifice was made.



Hey!

In life we have choices...we make our own choices in life...God is all Knowing that He knows the Beginning and the End of all.
God will not interfere in mans thoughts or tell someone to Worship Him...He allows man to do this based on Free will.

Jesus Christ was God in the Flesh...born without SIN which means that He as God the Father needed not to die... DEATH had no hold on Him as God-the Father.
Man on the other hand had SINNED(Sin means away From God) and experienced a 'bodily death'...Jesus Christ in the FLESH also experienced DEATH of the body...had He not experienced a BODILY death, man also would not be able to be Re-Conciled with God, because SIN caused MAN to fall away from God.

Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. 1 Cor. xv. 20.

First fruits of them?
The man ADAM was the first created human of the FLESH....Jesus Christ becomes the SECOND Adam of the FLESH.


By one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Rom. v. 12.

DEATH was brought by SIN...falling away from God as Lucifer also fell away from God and became Satan...Satan had not experienced a BODILY death because he was a spirit(soul)...God created man to replace The fallen Angels that fell away.. He created man from the earth and breathed His spirit into him...gave man a little of His spirit..this is why in Scripture we are called 'ye are gods'(only by adoption)
''It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.'' 1 Cor. xv. 43.
''As we have borne the image of the earthy, that is, of Adam, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. xv. 49.''
Are you yet, confused?

As a powerful all knowing God...as the Father, He knew all, but as a God-Man in the Flesh He experienced what we in the flesh also feel.
One good example is Him dying on the Cross....Take away this suffering?
He as God-in the Flesh experienced pain...as God-The Father straight away comforted Himself in saying that This was the reason He came.



God the Father is neither begotten,
nor proceeds from any other Person: the Son of God is from all eternity begotten of the Father: the Holy Ghost from all eternity proceeds from the Father.
More HERE~


The three days also has significance...3 is an important number throughout the Old and New Testament.
The Angels praise GOD....Holy, Holy Holy is His name...there are many references in the New Testament of the Trinity.

If the Resurrection did not happen, then out goes the Bible!
The whole FAITH of a Christian stands on the Resurrection.

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. 1 Cor. xv. 44. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor. xv. 53.


In the fifty-third chapter of the book of the Prophet Isaiah, for instance, the suffering and death of Jesus Christ is imaged forth with many particular traits: as, He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. ESAIAS/Isaiah...
ESAIAS/ISAIAH CHAPTER 53

Of the resurrection of Christ the Apostle Peter quotes the words of the sixteenth PSALM...... For why? thou shalt not leave my soul in hell,
neither shalt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption.
Acts ii. 27....
quotes used taken from~


Thank's for making me study!


ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 10 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by A Fortiori
 


Hello! *waves*
That's interesting isn't it, now I've met quite a few non believers who have followed the bibles instructions on contacting jesus I've even done so myself. Nope, no appearance at all, not even a little whisper.


And I had the same coach as an Olympic swimmer and I still kept veering out of my swim lane. My mother was a runway model and I look like...well, let's just say I'm not going to be on any covers anytime soon.


Maybe some people are more spiritually acute the way others are natural athletes or gifted mathematicians. Maybe you can't contact Jesus in the same way that I can't throw a touchdown pass like Tom Brady?



Interestingly enough, there was a poster on ATS recently who is an xtian but had actually quit because jesus didn't appear to him especially at a real bad time of his life.


Maybe Jesus didn't appear to him because there were other people around him that could have helped him? Jesus didn't show up in person at the Centurion's home to heal the boy. He healed him from a distance. Besides, I don't think Jesus is G-d in that vague sort of spirity way, I think he's more like you and I (anthropomorphic/individually sentient), and I can barely get all my errands done on Saturday, let alone do other people's errands.



It would be fair to say that most xtians claim that jesus appeared to them, but upon further inquiry it ofte turns out that- "Well he spoke to me in spirit " or "He gave me a sign" or "he speaks to me through the word" etc. He appears to the converted, this woman didn't need him to appear she was already an xtian.


I was a drug addict . I don't mean pot, either. I was at The Point, I fell down asking for help from someone, anyone. I got my help. I asked Jesus to heal me and I was healed of my addiction and withdrawal symptoms. Having been in the grasp of drugs and relieved I can tell you right now that I owe undying gratitude. Was it my own psyche? Maybe, but since that time I have had other experiences that confirms it for me. Do I expect or need you to believe me? Nope. I just want to maybe make you think about that tag line of yours...in a happy, kind way, of course!



One would have thought that if jesus needed to get the message across about hell so dramatically, then he would have shown up at my house and whisked me off to hell for a visit.


Reading the Gospels in their original language, understanding rabbinic Judaism of his time, reading the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew...well, all I can say is I don't think that was the message. The one reference (Gehenna) reads like: if you don't quit doing stupid stuff your life will do down the toilet.




Ahhhh your gourmet food is making me hungry, would sure make a change from burgers and spag bol lol. next time your around my way please feel free to drop in and show me how its' done properly.


Gladly. I always try to make something creative. Mother Theresa said: don't give the poor charity, give them love. So I don't do the usual lasagna and salad. I go all out and they really love it.



Would you not do these highly commendable things if you were not a christian ?


I would probably do less of them without the reminder. People are lazy. I know this from trying to recruit volunteers for stuff.


What is your position on your Yahweh jesus gods' view on, eating blood or being a homosexual, teaching little children that a man lived inside a fish, that slaves should be beaten till their almost dead, or that if your new wife is not a virgin then she should be killed ?
Same as Jesus. That Moses, not God, gave them the laws because of the "hardness of their hearts." As to homosexuals God loves them just as they are.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 




Don't you find it strange, that jesus doesn't pop in to visit atheists and whisk them off to see, what he created for them should they not comply ?


Yes, I find it quite strange. What's so special about that woman? Or any one else? Any why should we listen to them?

It may be a part of an agenda that they are unaware of.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Hi Deaf/

Let's say that you are asked to do a job....if you go to that job, without any knowledge whats soever,how are you to be able to know what to do?
You are at least required to have a little bit of knowledge before you commence any work,
True?
The same thing about God...How are you to know of God if you have no faith to begin with?
How are you to know of what or who He is , if you have no prior knowledge?

Is it PRIDE that leads one to believe that there is NO God?
Does it hurt if one tries?
What can one lose that would be so great?
People tend to blame God or others when they experience hurt or sufferings,why is that?
Why blame God if people want WARS?

Even people who do not believe in a God or other gods have an inbuilt desire to WORSHIP or be worshipped themselves!
Why is that?

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 




The same thing about God...How are you to know of God if you have no faith to begin with? How are you to know of what or who He is , if you have no prior knowledge?


This is more on the personal level. You can come to know God on your own without any external influence, i.e., the Bible, preachers, etc.



Is it PRIDE that leads one to believe that there is NO God?


No, it's the knowledge and understanding that church's idea of God (especially the one who damns certain people to hell) does not exist.

But if you are talking about something that no one can define or no one can tell you, then yes, it's the pride, thinking that he or she can know all there is.



What can one lose that would be so great?


The loss of belief in a constructed god is the gain in understanding.



People tend to blame God or others when they experience hurt or sufferings,why is that? Why blame God if people want WARS?


People blamed the CONSTRUCTED gods for their misfortunes.



Even people who do not believe in a God or other gods have an inbuilt desire to WORSHIP or be worshipped themselves!


I have no idea why some people have the desire to worship.

The worship comes from fear. If anyone has any understanding, they know that God is nothing to be afraid of.

The fear of God and hell was constructed to keep people docile. To reap in insane amount of profit. Etc, etc.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 


Your response once again detracts from the conundrum I posed, quoting scripture will not do, very straight forward question was answered with an overly complicated non answer.

God- created all that there is, god cannot be unaware of anything.

God decides to have himself crucified, Judas was created to turn him in.

The plan worked, after all how could it fail ?

You are implying that Judas may have chosen not to turn over Jesus. If that were the case, then gods plan would fail .


In relation to "sacrifice" quoting lengthy bible versus does not address the problem.

By definition sacrifice requires loss, Jesus did not lose anything.

An immortal being cannot lose its' life so for said being to claim that it sacrificed it's life is a lie.

We know that it was a lie by the fact that the immortal being, was executed but 3 days later was alive again getting people to feel his wounds.

So clearly no one sacrificed their life.

You also hint at jesus somehow making a sacrifice by suffering the pain of crucifixion. This just doesn't wash when if it actually occurred he was spared the full horror of a lengthy drawn out execution.



You somehow try to make Isaiah the answer for both these conundrums which it certainly doesn't.


The Isaiah 53’s author, a mainstream Jew, relates the life story of a certain person who quickly rose to prominence on rumors that he was the Messiah. Instead of uniting the nation, however, he soon fell into the common sin of starting a sect of one’s own outside normative Judaism and disseminating this teaching. God—who, in the Isaiah author’s view, favored Judean unity and thus desired orthodoxy and opposed sects and sectarianism—suppressed him. The people also rejected that person’s odd teaching, and he was executed for violating the law, a consequence of the fact that his interpretation of the law and theirs were different. Disapproving of him overall, but also respecting some aspects of his personality and career, the author of Isaiah 53 suggests that had the man repented of his delusions, he would have become and remained an important figure in Jewish society.

The process by which the Isaiah 53, which describes current events, was taken by later generations as prophecy, is reminiscent of another famous piece of Isaiah, his prophecy of the savior Emmanu El to be born to King Ahaz, which prediction did not come true, and so was taken by posterity as referring to events to come in a distant future.

Ancient authors spoke to their contemporaries about current events, hardly expecting an audience distanced by millennia. Many details are omitted, therefore, simply because the intended audience knew them well. Those details are often impossible for us to reconstruct.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


Hi Moocow!
I think at the end of it all is the fact that this thread will insite the views of individuals that have faith: I.E; have been conditioned all their lives to believe one thing or another, and those that are detached, yet do have an interest; so therefore, try to deduce answers through logic.

Essentially we are speking about the realm of Gods.
Humans really have only a fundamental idea. Our language cannot even express God to Gods capacity.
So I think, prophets whatever.
Any man/womens interpretation of God-., is as good as the next.
If God is within us all- why is it not a personal experience?

Hell is a throw-back concept from the middle-ages when religion and politics were so incorporated, it was difficulty to see any distinction between the two.
Hell is probably the equivalent of the fear mechanism in modern day society as: the war on Terror.
I am sure that will be uncomfortable for many???



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 

By definition sacrifice requires loss, Jesus did not lose anything.

Yes He did....He lost His life...He was the END of all SACRIFICES that going on!
No more Sacrices that were going on in the temples!


An immortal being cannot lose its' life so for said being to claim that it sacrificed it's life is a lie.


He was God in the Flesh...He felt pain and suffering as humans do.
Adam was the first man.
Jesus Christ becomes the Second Adam...I explained this!


]quote]We know that it was a lie by the fact that the immortal being, was executed but 3 days later was alive again getting people to feel his wounds.
Exactly!
Was this not prophesied it would happen?
It is in the Old Testament...Prophets spoke of this!
The Priests did not understand because they were looking for an outward sign...what they did inside the temple was hidden from man!


So clearly no one sacrificed their life.

Again,Jesus Christ was the ULIMATE sacrifice...Why did He get angry at the Synagogue?
Why did He let free all the animals .no more SACRIFICES were needed...and this practise had died long ago,but it was still happening!
Why did they not accuse Him of this?


You also hint at jesus somehow making a sacrifice by suffering the pain of crucifixion. This just doesn't wash when if it actually occurred he was spared the full horror of a lengthy drawn out execution.

As a man He felt pain and suffering.





You somehow try to make Isaiah the answer for both these conundrums which it certainly doesn't.

Translations of the Old Testament will always be because who's side to we choose?



The Isaiah 53’s author, a mainstream Jew, relates the life story of a certain person who quickly rose to prominence on rumors that he was the Messiah. Instead of uniting the nation, however, he soon fell into the common sin of starting a sect of one’s own outside normative Judaism and disseminating this teaching. God—who, in the Isaiah author’s view, favored Judean unity and thus desired orthodoxy and opposed sects and sectarianism—suppressed him.

Did He start a new sect or were the priests guilty of not HONOURING the true Prophets?
Why else would Jesus accuse them of not following what the Prophets prophesied?
Why did He accuse THEM of being murderers?
Why did THEY not convict Him of this?


The people also rejected that person’s odd teaching, and he was executed for violating the law, a consequence of the fact that his interpretation of the law and theirs were different. Disapproving of him overall, but also respecting some aspects of his personality and career, the author of Isaiah 53 suggests that had the man repented of his delusions, he would have become and remained an important figure in Jewish society.

Why was it different to Abrahams and the other prophets?
Did not the Prophets prophesy of the coming Messiah?
I ask you again, were they confessing and worshipping the True God of Abraham?
Why is Cain of the Old Testament mentioned by Jesus?
What crime did Cain commit?



The process by which the Isaiah 53, which describes current events, was taken by later generations as prophecy, is reminiscent of another famous piece of Isaiah, his prophecy of the savior Emmanu El to be born to King Ahaz, which prediction did not come true, and so was taken by posterity as referring to events to come in a distant future.

Ancient authors spoke to their contemporaries about current events, hardly expecting an audience distanced by millennia. Many details are omitted, therefore, simply because the intended audience knew them well. Those details are often impossible for us to reconstruct


So here lies the answer....our translations are in confusion.
You are right,
''Those details are often impossible for us to reconstruct''
Why?
Because translations vary with people and their ideas.

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Hi Kris/
Good to see you again!


If God is within us all- why is it not a personal experience?


And yet it is a personal experience for all!
Blasphemy of the Holy spirit is the one sin that wont be forgiven...all other sins can be forgiven!
Murders and thieves and all other acts...
What is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
It is personal enlightenment of God showing us that He exists...in all different matters of our existence!
"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto them.
And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him;
but whosoever speaks against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world,
neither in the world to come."

What EXACTLY is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit~

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Hi Kris/
And just to keep you on the 'three'!


Hell is probably the equivalent of the fear mechanism in modern day society as: the war on Terror.
I am sure that will be uncomfortable for many???


The war on TERROR!
Dont you think that many of us have already seen/looked behind the curtain, on the 'war on Terror'?
Very Uncomfortable!
How does one feel when he/she is alone,in suffering and in pain?
miserable and not content with anything in life...
How does one feel when he/she is in Love or surrounded by happiness?
Content and happy,like nothing else can hurt or destroy that happiness that is felt...

''The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world ''(I John 2:15 -16)....Why is that?
Our BODIES desire all of this, God understands this...
But when we feed only the body and it's passions, we forget all about God God said 'ye are gods'....His Spirit is in us and we are in a sense like God.
The SOUL however asks for it's creator...it longs to be re united with it's maker.

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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The threat of Hell may have worked to control the masses a thousand years ago, but not today. A godless generation has no fear of God therefore the fear of eternal retribution is a poor motivator with such an evil generation. Fear of imminant destruction did not work on the people faced with the flood. Only Noah and his family escaped.

To try to seel a point that Hell is being used to control the masses, it has to be valid to be true, and you have failed to make a valid point. The News media is a much better control agent to control the masses, and thus is the system being used at this present time to control, not religion.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 




Don't you find it strange, that jesus doesn't pop in to visit atheists and whisk them off to see, what he created for them should they not comply ?






Yes, I find it quite strange. What's so special about that woman? Or any one else? Any why should we listen to them?


Obviously she was chosen "by herself" the woman is full of BS convincing xtians that what she claims is true, well there's mo convincing required.

She's preaching to the converted who desperately want what she claims to be true. How the hell else are people like me going to suffer for questioning the xtians if hell isn't real for them.

Hell has to be real for them at any cost otherwise what's to stop them having a good time ?





It may be a part of an agenda that they are unaware of.

It ccertainly is, it keeps pastors in fast cars and hookers, priests in nice houses and bishops in small boys.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 





Hell is a throw-back concept from the middle-ages when religion and politics were so incorporated, it was difficulty to see any distinction between the two. Hell is probably the equivalent of the fear mechanism in modern day society as: the war on Terror. I am sure that will be uncomfortable for many???


Totally agree dude, as helen rightly pointed out hell would appear to have essentially been a twisted derivative of the early hebrew place of the dead/ the grave.

No monsters torture satan etc that neat idea of making people comply as you rightly pointed out was a later edition.

If the early Hebrews were in fact the remnants of the exodus of the Egyptian cult of Akhetaten, then most likely the Egyptian "underworld" would be a likely contender.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Fear is the key to controlling anyone. If you make someone fear you or fear something you can control them.
I have seen this done in many cases.
Hell is basically the worst fear that can come true. Religion can be used for good and bad. It can be used as a tool of control.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by helen670
 


your definition sacrifice requires loss, Jesus did not lose anything.




Yes He did....He lost His life...He was the END of all SACRIFICES that going on! No more Sacrices that were going on in the temples!



How could he, he got it back in 3 days "alive again" what a cheap con.

His crucifixion was just so as to get the sacrifices in the temples stopped ? Ridiculous !

How many jewish temples are currently practicing ritual cacrifices these days ?

I wonder if those that don't, stopped because a jew got himself executed because he disagreed with the practice ?




An immortal being cannot lose its' life so for said being to claim that it sacrificed it's life is a lie.





He was God in the Flesh...He felt pain and suffering as humans do.


He is claimed to be the creator of "everything" so he can do as he wishes, if he felt pain and suffering it was his idea, no good blaming others.

Nevertheless as I pointed out, the pain and suffering was nowhere near as bad as others who took a lot longer than 3 days to die.

Oh, but there we go again, he only died for 3 days, and as god created time, the period that he is alleged to have hung on the cross could have been less than the shortest incremetn of time that we can measure.






Adam was the first man. Jesus Christ becomes the Second Adam...I explained this!



Your explanation which somehow involves adam, detracts from what I've asked.

Becoming a second Adam only makes any sense to an xtian and has zero impact on my alleging that a sacrifice was not made as nothing was irredeemably lost.

If I chose to go into the gas chamber instead of a jew, knowing full well that I would be alive again, what sacrifice exactly have I made?

Pain and suffering are a separate issue completely, but again the reduction of the alleged pain and suffering was fully known in advance.

]quote]We know that it was a lie by the fact that the immortal being, was executed but 3 days later was alive again getting people to feel his wounds.




Exactly! Was this not prophesied it would happen?



Why do you suddenly try and change the subject of debate ?

Let's put this sacrifice thing to bed before we move on to so called prophesies eh ?



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


Hi moocow/

I guess we are getting mixed messages because In order for me to explain something that you ask, one needs to refer to WHY it is the way it is.
To do that, one needs to understand why it began the way it began.
It needs a beginning to come to an end?
Otherwise, we are only getting in each others bad books...
The Three days symbolizes the Trinityand alsomany other symbolic references that are in the Torah refering to the Messiah.
So, for me to explain and for you to understand, we must be both in communication...how can that be,if we both have two seperate Beliefs of understanding?

The OP says the FEAR of HELL is the key to control the masses?
I am an Orthodox Christian....NEVER do elders or priests control someone with fear....they have no right to do this!
If they do, then THEY themselves go against the teachings of what was first taught...they cannot make up rules based on their own.
They are held responsible for what they say, if their teachings are heretical to the teachings of the Apostles.
Like I have said before.....WITHIN the church the antichrist will arise...and so have many antichrists come and gone.
Sorry off topic again.

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by whiterider
 

Very good point, but that probably applies most to Britain and the USA. Many countries, especially those with strong Roman Catholic influence, will still be preaching the old words. And don't forget the evangelists. Yes good old Dick Saunders, catching human beings in his big net by telling them they "are all going to Hell" and quoting the strictest Biblical funadamentals. Original sin from Adam, blah-blah, Jesus born to take the sin away from us, blah-blah, we have to lose our free will and slavishly follow the will of God / Jesus / the Church / whatever, or we will go to Hell... blah-blah. Christianity was once the fastest growing religion in the World. Now it's credibility has been undermined in so many ways over so many generations that it has become a hollow and theatrical doctrine.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by helen670
 





Otherwise, we are only getting in each others bad books.
..
Well I for one don't have a bad book, so you have nothing to worry about there.




The Three days symbolizes the Trinityand alsomany other

Well, according to the Encyclopedia America (if I recall correctly) the concept of the Trinity is claimed by theologians to be beyond human comprehension. I would agree to this wholeheartedly and not even bother to go down that road tight now.






symbolic references that are in the Torah refering to the Messiah. So, for me to explain and for you to understand, we must be both in communication...how can that be,if we both have two seperate Beliefs of understanding?


Well it would appear that it's all a matter of how an individual chooses to interpret what is alleged to be symbolism. You see it one way the jews see it another.

If we all understood Hebrew and Aramaic then we could certainly make more qualified opinions for ourselves.








..NEVER do elders or priests control someone with fear....they have no right to do this!
If they do, then THEY themselves go against the teachings of what was first taught...


Yes they do, and yahweh(who is one and the same jesus) made it quite clear that he was to be feared.




they cannot make up rules based on their own.



Yes they can, as the bibles as you have pointed out contain a great deal of symbolism, so it's up to their interpretation.




They are held responsible for what they say, if their teachings are heretical to the teachings of the Apostles.


The apostles, being jews (escept paul) would not even entertain the thought of consuming pork or blood. I dare not try to guess how many xtians including their leaders should be deemed heretical.
But once again, it's all about interpretation and who's version of the interpretation.



posted on Aug, 11 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by moocowman
 



If we all understood Hebrew and Aramaic then we could certainly make more qualified opinions for ourselves.


Hi, Moocow! *waves*

I do. And Greek, Latin, and Coptic. Ooooh! Ooooh! Give me something to translate!!!! *waves hands excitedly around* I never get to use this stuff anymore.




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