The Fear of Hell is the Key to Control the Masses

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by moocowman

 

If we all understood Hebrew and Aramaic then we could certainly make more qualified opinions for ourselves.

Hi, Moocow! *waves*

I do. And Greek, Latin, and Coptic. Ooooh! Ooooh! Give me something to translate!!!! *waves hands excitedly around* I never get to use this stuff anymore.

You do ? Really ? If so how cool well done to you for your hard work, not being sarcastic there, just appreciate your abilities.

There was something on my mind actually , it's gone at the mo nut I will get back to you on it.

So you speak and write hebrew then ? Would you agree to the origins of Hebrew being a hybrid language originating at Akhetaten ?

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by moocowman

 

If we all understood Hebrew and Aramaic then we could certainly make more qualified opinions for ourselves.

Hi, Moocow! *waves*

I do. And Greek, Latin, and Coptic. Ooooh! Ooooh! Give me something to translate!!!! *waves hands excitedly around* I never get to use this stuff anymore.

You do ? Really ? If so how cool well done to you for your hard work, not being sarcastic there, just appreciate your abilities.

There was something on my mind actually , it's gone at the mo nut I will get back to you on it.

So you speak and write hebrew then ? Would you agree to the origins of Hebrew being a hybrid language originating at Akhetaten ?

Understand? Yes. Read/Write? Yes. Speak? I wouldn't even attempt it in front of another human being. BUT I have prayed in the language.

As for its origins I am firmly in the canaanite camp, but...my area of expertise is from 70 BCE to 300 CE so take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure someone who studied ancient samaritan culture could be of more use. I only studied Hebrew and Aramaic because I studied the historical Jesus. I prefer Latin because it is honestly the easiest most logical dead language to learn, and I had to take Greek or else I would not have gotten my degree. Coptic was a rare opportunity and I am glad I had the change to learn it. It is VERY rusty at this point but would love the opportunity to translate something because it would force the old gears to start working (hopefully).

BTW...I didn't want to step into your earlier back and forth, but learning Hebrew and reading the Bible is a real eye-opener.

reply to post by A Fortiori

I only studied Hebrew and Aramaic because I studied the historical Jesus.

That's interesting, where do you stand on the jesus family tomb ?

reply to post by moocowman


What do I think of the Jesus tomb....?

I know that there have been discoveries that have never been published, and I don't know why. Things that went through pollen + carbon with contemporary results and still never made the light of day. Academia is a very strange world. The people that are against it being legitimate in my opinion all have reasons that a suspicious person could use to make the case that their denial involves the future of their own careers. The people that are for it being legitimate also have something to gain (lovely Discovery channel videos and corresponding DVD)

I would be more inclined to answer this fully via U2U because some of the things I would have to say could be construed as heavy handed about some of the parties involved.

reply to post by A Fortiori


Hi A Fortiori/

Why not answer it here in this post, so we can all have a say as to what you know?
Is some Scripture hidden from man to man?


Please share your findings!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by moocowman

It ccertainly is, it keeps pastors in fast cars and hookers, priests in nice houses and bishops in small boys.

I am afraid it's something greater than this. Those pastors are merely pawns in this game.

Fear is used to control the average masses. Money is used to control the pastors and religious leaders. And so on. This brings up the image of the pyramid.

reply to post by moocowman

If I chose to go into the gas chamber instead of a jew, knowing full well that I would be alive again, what sacrifice exactly have I made?

LOL, I understand exactly what you mean. It is not a sacrifice.

I would not exactly call it a good argument. Yes, it's not a sacrifice. But this "sacrifice" has saved a jew life.

If I was an immortal, I'd take anybody's place without fear in order to save his or her life.

Pain and suffering are a separate issue completely, but again the reduction of the alleged pain and suffering was fully known in advance.

Yes, that is true. It was known in advance.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by moocowman

 

If I chose to go into the gas chamber instead of a jew, knowing full well that I would be alive again, what sacrifice exactly have I made?

LOL, I understand exactly what you mean. It is not a sacrifice.

I would not exactly call it a good argument. Yes, it's not a sacrifice. But this "sacrifice" has saved a jew life.

If I was an immortal, I'd take anybody's place without fear in order to save his or her life.

Pain and suffering are a separate issue completely, but again the reduction of the alleged pain and suffering was fully known in advance.

Yes, that is true. It was known in advance.

This is an interesting point. I was always intrigued, back during my indoctrination days, of how Jesus weeps in Gethsemane, if he was indeed immortal why weep in such a way? If he knew he was setting free his followers for all generations why does he seem so bummed out about it? It seems one of the only moments where Jesus stops being this supernatural figure and seems just as frightened and weak us the rest of us and this reinforced by growing suspicion that Jesus indeed was just a man but a great man at that.

While today's church may thrive on literal interpretations and fire and brimstone - Armageddon talk I think Jesus dreamed of a world where religion wasn't just more of the same. He taught that you should love each other and that you didn't need organized religion to find the savior within (Holy Communion seemed more to me like Jesus telling the disciples to find the savior within then about actually partaking of some bizarre ritual)...

So on the whole it seems Christianity ignores Jesus's actual teachings in pursuit of sensationalist material about Hell, raptures and various interpretations of vague prophecies...

Oh and if I was immortal I'd totally have stopped Hitler before he'd even gotten the idea for concentration camps...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Basically the poster killed his own argument about Jesus suffering and dying on the cross for us. (Note to Christians: this doesn't mean you win this argument).

This is an interesting point. I was always intrigued, back during my indoctrination days, of how Jesus weeps in Gethsemane, if he was indeed immortal why weep in such a way? If he knew he was setting free his followers for all generations why does he seem so bummed out about it? It seems one of the only moments where Jesus stops being this supernatural figure and seems just as frightened and weak us the rest of us and this reinforced by growing suspicion that Jesus indeed was just a man but a great man at that.

Yes this is an interesting point that I rarely ever thought about. Like you, I was raised a strict fundamental Christian.

The poster moocowman said that it wasn't a sacrifice. He was correct. I can't believe I just thought of this tonight. What if his death was to delay the suffering and punishment for the rest of the world? Like the immortal dying in stead of the jew in a gas chamber example.

While today's church may thrive on literal interpretations and fire and brimstone - Armageddon talk I think Jesus dreamed of a world where religion wasn't just more of the same. He taught that you should love each other and that you didn't need organized religion to find the savior within (Holy Communion seemed more to me like Jesus telling the disciples to find the savior within then about actually partaking of some bizarre ritual)...

Well, that's the point of his teaching, if he even existed. There is nothing to fear. You are your own god. How can anyone even believe that a loving god would punish anybody to suffering for all eternity? I KNOW that NO Christian believe that. Everytime I ask a Christian this, they ALWAYS hesitated. Every time!

Oh and if I was immortal I'd totally have stopped Hitler before he'd even gotten the idea for concentration camps...

LOL, yeah.

But, the poster moocowman unintentionally brought up a good point. The movie highlander comes to my mind.

reply to post by helen670


Hi Helen

The war on TERROR! Dont you think that many of us have already seen/looked behind the curtain, on the 'war on Terror'? Very Uncomfortable!

The war on terror was an example used to highlight the ability of certain fraternaties that use the element of fear as political advantage.
As I outlined in an earlier post.....In the past Politics and religion where intertwined so as to make it difficult to see any separation. This still happens to a degree ( when the pope rants about his fellings on contraception etc).
Of coarse there is much human suffering caused via these mechanisms; pschologically if people are convinced they are damned, and they don't have the powers of intellectual deduction for themselves, they will inherently play out this roll.

When I was young I submitted at the hands of my friend to speak with his family pastor in regards to my own psychic experiences.
His pastor told me I was indeed playing with the devil!!!! WHAT????
He also told me that I had hallucinated all my experiences; then promptly gave me a copy of a book called: Psychic Roulette.
I was more scared, and emotionally scarred than anything.
You put your trust in people with a little knowledge, and they go right to work on you!!!I suppose that was his 'Personal Work'.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
reply to post by helen670

 

Hi Helen

The war on TERROR! Dont you think that many of us have already seen/looked behind the curtain, on the 'war on Terror'? Very Uncomfortable!

The war on terror was an example used to highlight the ability of certain fraternaties that use the element of fear as political advantage.
As I outlined in an earlier post.....In the past Politics and religion where intertwined so as to make it difficult to see any separation. This still happens to a degree ( when the pope rants about his fellings on contraception etc).

Hi Kris/

Thanks for clarifying that!
This happens when higher powers believe that they own the rights to judge all concerning personal things of which they dont know of...
eg/You speak of contraception and what the pope wants.
I may be a little confused here as I am not Roman Catholic...All things Spiritual are personal and therefore require personal differences in matters of intimate relationships and how they are to be viewed.
In dealing with personal matters,we either have counseling or on a spiritual level, we seek advice from the Priests wife,who can give us advice as to what we may require to be of benefit for us.(both Spiritual and wordly)...hope this makes sense.
In all matters,both spiritual and wordly, we all differ as human beings,never alike in all things,therefore require advice suited to our needs for our benefit.
(confused yet?)

Of coarse there is much human suffering caused via these mechanisms; pschologically if people are convinced they are damned, and they don't have the powers of intellectual deduction for themselves, they will inherently play out this roll.When I was young I submitted at the hands of my friend to speak with his family pastor in regards to my own psychic experiences.
His pastor told me I was indeed playing with the devil!!!! WHAT????
He also told me that I had hallucinated all my experiences; then promptly gave me a copy of a book called: Psychic Roulette.
I was more scared, and emotionally scarred than anything.
You put your trust in people with a little knowledge, and they go right to work on you!!!I suppose that was his 'Personal Work'.

And I agree with you!
Human suffering differs in each individuals case,one may view someones suffering as nothing, whilst another may see it as unbearable...each differs.
This is why it is wrong to damn someone of a mistake or to quickly judge someone on something of which is unknown...forgiveness is a human trait(is it?)and if it is not, it can only do good then bad?
a priest has no right to judge anyone,he can give advice,but should not condemn or judge someone based on what is told to them ...


I understand and believe that many will take advantage of ones lack of knowlede, but we cannot judge the many because of the few that take it upon themselves to play GOD!

take care,

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

Hi A Fortiori/

Why not answer it here in this post, so we can all have a say as to what you know?
Is some Scripture hidden from man to man?

Please share your findings!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Sorry! I was out of pocket for a few days.

The reason why I don't want to post about the subject on the board is because I would be injecting my personal opinion on some of the professors involved, and ad hominem is not a logical argument.

For example, if I were to say that if this tomb were validated by peer review as authentic then Professor X's prior work would be overcome by events and his lectures not as sought after by the Discovery Channel it might very well be a true statement, and it may also be a reason for arguing against a new discovery or thesis. However, it doesn't mean that Professor X argued against it for that reason. He/she may have had another reason for declaring it inauthentic and the aforementioned suppositions are merely coincidental.

Yes, I am meandering, but I really don't want to be uncharitable. I will say that read both arguments, viewed the ostuaries, and felt there was insufficient evidence to argue conclusively either way. I suggest anyone really interested should read all of the papers for themselves. You may come to a conclusion, or you may not. You will have a good night's read.

Only the dead know if such exist,but look at them..They can't talk.If they have beer and fun than..To HELL I go...plus I think I suffered in hell on earth..so,I dont care really..I'm close to death everyday when I drive and so far death has respected me even then..I have escaped death but,not the devil.

"see you all in hell,I WILL BE driving the bus.

reply to post by men7al


hi men7al//

I don't think there will be any 'STOP' signs in hell!
You sure that you want to be driving the bus for eternity?



ICXC NIKA
helen

S&F! Well said!

I have too recognized the fear tactics behind different religions. I was told, back when I was raised in a cult like church, that if I do not follow god and submit to his will along with all the other crap that I will suffer in hell forever with no end.

Now I was like WTF?! How can I suffer indefinitely for one lifetime of mistakes?
How can the peaceful loving and just god they follow make me suffer in hell forever with no end for a limited time in life of screwing up? If god is a accurate and caring judge he would not castrate and torture a child that spills his milk then murder him. Something that is done within a certain time span must be judged accordingly. It's like saying you made a mistake now you will pay for the mistake, but you will pay forever. The punishment will not ever end.

A recordable span of life of sin equals to a unrecordable never ending spanless existence in hell? That is not a just god, I'm sorry. The logic is so flawed and that's why it works so well on others.

if hell is real im not afraid to go there cause i don't believe in heaven and hell