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Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

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+42 more 
posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:15 AM
This was a note written by a friend of mine. She's an individual that doesn't react emotionally but rather thinks things through. Also I've included a response to her post.Okay people. I’d like to clarify some things.

First I want to say that the reason I posted that yesterday was because I had spent part of the afternoon doing my usual on the interweb, when I saw video of people disrupting the town hall meetings that have been arranged throughout the country to try to explain single payer healthcare. The protesters have been chanting nonsense and screaming over the speakers as they try to inform the public of what it’s all about. See, they have been unable to explain it – just explain it – through other regular channels because of people like Fox News etc. who rip it apart without letting the information get out there. In this day and age people do not look for information, they do not research or inform themselves, they take what is readily given to them. And when supposedly impartial journalists are shouting at you that the government just wants to tax you into the next century, it causes otherwise reasonable people to panic and get angry, which is exactly what they want to happen.
These people shouting were a ‘grassroots protest’ designed to disrupt the exchange of information and that pisses me off. It’s one thing to protest an idea or something terrible that is happening, and I am all for that - trust me, but to protest informing the public is absurd. Idiotic.
This is living proof that it is not just the information you are given but the quality of that information. How can you make up your own mind and make your own choices if you do not expose yourself to all sides of an issue?

You have to question the motives of any group of people that does not want you to think for yourself.

Right now the conservative right is angry. They lost big this last election, and are going out of their way to sabotage every move, every decision, every idea this new administration has so that they can say “See, it doesn’t work. It’s going to cost you more in taxes and make life harder than it already is.” Then you’ll vote for them again and everything will go back to the status quo – which as you can clearly see by the state of things right now (failing health care system, failing environment, failing economy, failing education) that the status quo doesn’t work. Things change and are changing – and have to change. It’s the nature of living things to evolve, and this goes for societies too (RE: compare today with say, the 1950’s).

Single Payer Health Care is a good thing. It is not the government deciding the fate of your health. Nor is it new. We already have various forms of it in this country: Medicaid for example. It is not perfect, but it is the only recourse for people living below the poverty line who cannot afford to pay an insurance company.
All that this new health care plan is, is an alternative option for people in the middle class. It is an option that will both give you health care coverage if your insurance company drops you, and fill in the gaps of coverage that you may find yourself needing. It is not enforced enslavement to a government system. It’s an alternative.

Mod Edit: Changed title

[edit on 8/9/09 by FredT]

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:16 AM
Right now the middle class has no other recourse for health care. (If you are poor you have programs and Medicaid; if you are rich you can pay for the best out of pocket).You need to buy health insurance or you have to assume the huge financial risk if something goes wrong. Your coverage is based upon how much you are able to pay or how much your employer is willing to invest in. There were once laws in place that defined what kind of coverage a company was to give to its employees, and when, and how much of a premium that employee would need to invest. However, in the past eight years, these rules have changed drastically, as well as the guidelines for how an insurance company can pick up or drop someone and how they can change a person’s policy. And right now people who have faithfully paid into the system are finding themselves having had their coverage whittled away to nothing, or taken away altogether. This is happening at an alarmingly exponential rate across the country right now, and there is nothing that people can do about it. The healthcare system in this country is run on a pay to play basis, with the insurance industry pulling its strings.
The insurance game is a multibillion dollar industry that has changed the way healthcare works in America. It is the reason that rates are so high, that procedures are so expensive that nurses get paid next to nothing. Insurance companies don’t care about how healthy you are or need to be they only care about their bottom line, and if you die in the process that’s your own problem.
I keep hearing about how the proposed SPHC is terrible because ‘we don’t need a bureaucrat getting between us and our health’ or ‘making our health care decisions for us’, but that is the definition of a health insurance carrier: A bureaucratic middle man skimming off the top.

So when it comes down to it, single payer health care is not an evil government trap. It’s not enforced socialism (that’s an argument for another day), or a way to gouge you or control you. It’s a really really good thing for middle-class America: the 97% majority of us who hold less than 2% of all the country’s wealth and yet pay for everything. The only, and I mean ONLY ones who would not benefit from this are the insurance companies. They are afraid that they will lose money, that people will switch to the government program and that they will have to drop their rates. (Their rates won’t rise people, in this situation they will be forced to be fairly competitive – and that’s good for the economy!)
Again, you have to question the motives of any group of people that does not want you to think for yourself. Why is an entire political party against something that could really benefit its people and solve a lot of problems? Could it be that they are really representing their own interests here?

As for the price tag. I was watching a news report in which a rabid biased reporter was tooling around in a wheelchair, saying the recipient of that wheelchair on the new government plan would be forced to pay through the nose for it, that their prescriptions would cost a fortune, and that they would have to wait ages for adequate health care. Then he said that in ten years it would cost the American taxpayers over a trillion dollars. Well, let’s just do a little math. During the Bush administration, we went from having a multibillion dollar surplus (ala Clinton), to being 4.5 trillion dollars in debt (and mainly to China) in just under eight years. Almost all of that money, plus the surplus and annual tax money, went to the Iraq war. A great majority of that money was invested in Blackwater and Haliburton, multibillion dollar corporations that almost every member of Bush’s cabinet had financial stakes in, and nearly a third of that money is completely unaccounted for. And this country had no problem just letting them do it.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:16 AM
Obama’s economic plan is huge. Initially set at nearly 900 billion, it’s been bastardized quite a lot, and criticized mercilessly. You hear the extreme numbers, and then they tell you that taxes will go up. They don’t tell you however, about the other half of the plan that involves cutting wasteful government spending. That involves cutting nearly 900 billion in wasteful spending – essentially canceling out the 900 billion earmarked for: fixing the economy, creating jobs, repairing the environment, feeding the over 50 million starving children in this country. We suddenly have a president who wants to invest in his own people, who thinks that our taxes should be paying for us, as was the original intent.
So you can go off about price tags, and wasting money – but I do not consider Education and Healthcare to be wasteful government spending.

As for long waits and expensive prescriptions and equipment, that is an out and out lie. The new government health care program is set up essentially the way my SPHC program is. I’m on MassHealth because I do not have health insurance and am lucky enough to live in a state that provides an alternative. I do not wait for appointments or procedures. I choose my own doctors. My prescriptions went from costing over $1200 a month to $6. The quality of my health care actually improved from when I was younger and on my father’s John Hancock health plan.

Right now this country is in crisis, and health care is a part of that. It is essential that we work to some place where everyone gets equal care and consideration whatever their economic standing is. No one should have to suffer, worsen or die because they did everything right and yet couldn’t get the care they so deserved. Healthcare is not a privilege, health care is a human right. So please, educate yourself as to what is going on. Listen to all sides of the story. Consider all angles, and don’t just jump on some bandwagon. I have never in my adult life just gone along with something, I always take in everything and drawn my own conclusions and I suggest you do the same. And if you ever want to debate any of these issues with me, I’m all for it. Just be prepared – in the spirit of Ray Bradbury – for the Slap.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:41 AM
If the plan pushed by Obama is so good, why does it not apply to him or the rest of the politicians who wrote the health care plan?

Why the need to report the opposers and why not take the time to read and discuss the bill instead of just shoving it down our throat?

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 09:45 AM
I think your premise is wrong. People are shouting at these townhall meetings because THEY already know what is in the bill. Any talk, pablum, diatribe, out of DC is just that. Talk. They are trying to sell a bill that does not help anyone.

The poor get medical care already. If this bill passes, they would get lower quality of care.

A main cost (especially in California) is treating illegal immigrants. With this bill, they would still get that care.

Unions, elected officials are exempt from this type of healthcare.

Coming from the UK (I'm now an american) it is socialized medicine. This bill takes control from the people and places it in the hands of those elite that think they nkow better than us.

Bush spent trillions. Obama has spent trillions more. Comparing those two won't work.

The minutia in this bill (HR 3200) is disgusting. Long lines, longer waits, lower standards of care, letting the elderly, the mentally challenged, the very young, die is a nightmare.

This plan forces the avaliability of abortion onto a system that voted not to have it.

Most people in this country are happy with their current system. Does it need to be improved? You're damn right it does. But changes this radical won't make a bad sitution better, it'll make it worse.

I've just hit the highlites, and have barely scratched the surface of this disgusting, blatent, attempt at control, but don't kid yourself. It is about control. Not healthcare improvement.

Just my humble opinion of course. . . .

[edit on 8-8-2009 by mikerussellus]

[edit on 8-8-2009 by mikerussellus]

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:22 AM
OP, thank you for your well thought out words.

With all the anger going around, it is difficult for many to sit and think abou this a bit more, rather than jumping on some preprescribed platform.

I wish I can copy and post your worlds on some other forums that have gone wacko lately and will not listen to reason.

I, for one, am tired of paying 500 dollars a month for insurance that doesn't cover very much. I had to have surgery this year and it set me back 20k out of pocket - and that's AFTER my insurance payed it's measley percentage. It had me thinking - what the hell am I paying 500 dollars a month for if they don't cover me?

Insurance companies are not for our benefit, it is all about their profit.

Anything that can put a curb on them is alright by me.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:27 AM
Hey OP...
When these phony P'sOS drop their elitist healthcare plans and submit to the same plan they are trying to railraod through - then I will put more stock in their "Plan."

In the meantime, I'm just wondering... are you a part of ACORN, one of those Union memebers that Obama invoked or some other paid shill for the "ministry of truth"? I mean, I'm just curious... as no one with even HALF as brain would believe the crap you're peddling.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:29 AM
reply to post by js331975

Should you really put Idiot in the topic title, because people disagree with you doesn't make them an idiot.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:30 AM
You know what a real "idiot" is? Someone who resorts to insults and name calling because they do not agree with your viewpoint. Sorry I didn't read your post because your title was too idiotic.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:32 AM
Why I'm Tired of the Idiots Supporting Health Care Reform

Does anyone know how many Senators and Representatives have actually read this bill that they are trying to tell us what it's about?

Or are they just regurgitating what Obama/Reid/Pelosi are telling them what to tell the sheeple it is about?

Do you know what's in the bill, or are you just being good little sheeple and listening to the party line on what's in it?

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:37 AM
Healthcare wouldn't cost as much if you removed most of the litigation aspect from it. Currently Doctors in this country are so scared of malpractice that they prescribe every test imaginable just to protect their collective asses, and their malpractice insurance is EXPENSIVE. take out the greedy lawyers and you will find medical care rates will drop. Manage the costs of drugs set by th big pharm comanies, and you've hlped a little bit more, but taking insurance away from those that have it already, collecting cerain insurance groups in a circle and giving them all the business of the american taxpayer is the same as the bailouts, it's politicians, helping out lobbyists, who scratched their backs during the elections. gvernment needs to regulate medical prices, and improve upon the medical assistance to the poor and uninsured. Not take away insurance from those that already have it, and raise taxes. How about this, make sure everyone in the country that is receiving medical care be a confirmed taxpaying citizen? hmmm? Obama's plan sucks, and you arent convincing me of anything. go back to the drawing board before you make a presentation like this if you expect to gain followers.

How about cash for clunkers? which was originially drafted to help the american auto worker? The original draft of that bill stated that it only apllied to american autos. Well that got scrapped, and now 90% of the autos being purchased are japanese. Don't even say that the japs have facories over here, of course they do, but they are all in the south, and non union factories which are paying poor bubba 13 bucks an hour after 15 years of service. compare that wage to what the unionized auto workers in detroit make and it seems hardly fair.

The stimulus package? I haven't seen ANY change in unemployment in my area, and in fact, the numbers have only gone up less than 1% since it was implemented.

Obama and his czars should take paycuts, give all the americans the same insurance that they are offered, otherwise leave well enough alone. he's already managed to screw up the country worse than any president since Kennedy.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:37 AM
Total nonsense. We need less government not more. It doesn't matter what area be it healthcare, defense spending, the environment. Bottomline is there is just too much damn government controlling our lives. Healthcare is not a basic right anymore than food is. No one promoting universal healthcare is promoting the government take over the role of feeding the population are they? I'd say food is much more important than healthcare? Yet it is up to the individual to make sure they and their family are fed. If anything healthcare should be like buying car insurance. Those that can't afford to drive can take public transportation. American needs to start investing in better public transportation......but that doesn't mean the government should go out and buy everyone a car. Some people can afford to drive BMW's and others will be relegated to driving KIAs. Health insurance is the same way. I've worked hard to go to school, find a good job with good benefits AND WAIT TO HAVE MY FIRST KID until I was financially responsible. I'm healthy, in shape, non smoking 29 year old who makes it a POINT TO BE HEALTHY.

Government fails at everything it does. medicare, social security, regulating financial markets, the environment, wars, etc. Another thing of those so called 45 million without insurance how many actually can afford it but choose not to pay for it? How many are illegals? I'm not arguing there isn't plenty of money in this country for everyone to have decent healthcare. Just like there is plenty of money in this country for everyone to have filet mignon for dinner every night. But I sure as hell don't want to subsidize all the idiot, overweight, junk food eating, irresponsible adults out there. If this bill was soley about children fine. But then again why the hell should I subsidize all the irresponsible parents out there having kids they can't afford and kids they can't take care of.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Zosynspiracy]

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:44 AM
You should be tired of being lied to by your elected leaders in government.

All anyone need do is set aside their political bias, with an open mind, read the bills that this administration and congress are seeking to force upon the American people, and ultimately how they intend to pay for it all.

There are so many additions and laws disguised in the health care bill alone to alarm anyone who has ever valued their life and this country. The intrusion into your lives alone will be frightening, they will have real time access to your bank accounts, pay checks, and assets, they can literally take your money... There will be a massive bureaucracy that no one will be able to fight, health care will be rationed.... Look, just read the damned bill! Draw your own conclusions, while you are at it, have a look at the cap and trade bill, and pull up the stimulus plan that was passed and few if any even read.

Health care needs reforms, and changes, that is a fact, but what the Washington elite and Obama administration are seeking to do with their health care reform bill is far from making the system better, it is all about the extension and expansion of government and their powers over the people and the private sector.... They already have too much power, and this simply must not be allowed to continue. This nation needed change, not a destructive agenda which will destroy this nation as we know it while installing a new massive system of government that will control every aspect of our lives and the economy. This nation was founded on simple principles, and limited government powers over the people has been fundamental to our growth and success as a nation.

Their health care reforms and other legislation will ultimately put the government in control of everything,

By all means, fix what is broken, but do not take freedom and liberty in the process.

If all else fails, and you are still tired after reading the bills, simply go to sleep like so many Americans, absorb the mainstream media spoon fed lies, distortions, propaganda and completely biased reporting.

Or wake the F up. The choice is yours.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:50 AM
Every time I see people support this healh care bill I am reminded of the YouTube video of that woman crying. Saying she doesn't have to worry about paying her rent or paying for gas. Because Obama is going to pay for it for her.

When people hear free they go crazy and don't pay attention to the reason it is free. They don't understand that nothing is free and that while they get to go to the doctor free of charge, they are going to pay for it out of their paychecks. While those who don't work will be mooching off of you.

I don't know, maybe I was raised differant than those who like this bill. I was always taught that you had to work hard and not accept handouts. That might be the reason I don't want money coming out of my pocket that I worked hard for so that the person who don't even want or look for a job can get the same things I have.

When we get our debt taken care of and this can be done without having to burden the tax payers then I say go for it. Right now it really isn't a great idea. They should instead look into a way to make health care affordable and then a few years down the road make it free. Baby steps is always alot safer then jumping off the cliff.

If that makes me an idiot then I guess I am.

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posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 10:57 AM
To brand protesters as idiots is just plain un-american.
That they come from all sides of the political spectrum, NOT just disenfranchised repubs should send a loud message.
I am vehemently against it because I actually READ it---all 100+ pages.
To brand it a "health care bill" is misdirection, because though it does massively socialize doctors, hospitals, and options, that is only part of it. There are so many other mandates, directives, and requirements only tangentially associated, if at all, with health care that intrude and control most other facets of the American way of life that one could honestly conclude it is an attempt at a coup, installing a fascist dictatorship.

Does it have good, even excellent points? Of course it does. But the tasty sugar coating doesn't negate the fact that the center of the goody is rat poison.

I very strongly suggest, and require of those debating face to face, anyone who has a horse in this race (all Americans except politicians, who are exempt from its mandates) that they actually read the proposal instead of following their particular leaders talking points.

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:01 AM
I actually agree with Obama's vision of the health care plan as he stated, and nobody in the media seemed to get it. Just off the top of my head Obama said he wanted a system that:

  1. Did not increase spending
  2. Provided affordable coverage specifically to those who could not afford it
  3. Streamlined the system so that things are covered automatically when you go to the doctor
  4. Reduce costs of operating
  5. The new program should be part of the medicare framework initially to streamline it's implementation
  6. That you have an option to have private insurance still but will not be allowed to have no insurance

That doesn't sound like socialized health care to me. It sounds like a reasonable system, such as having auto insurance on every vehicle on the road.

Where I think this gets confused is in congress. The President's vision is in the right spot. When congress writes the law it seems to get a lot of additions to support corporations over the people, but was not part of the original plan.

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:02 AM
reply to post by jd140

You know, I agree that people shouldn't be handed everything on a silver platter. If you work hard, you should have something to show for it.

But, I'm thinking that health care should be separate from prestige rewards like nice car, house, clothes, vacations, etc...

Health care should be a basic right. No one should be hungry, or turned away from medical care. I'm not saying give them a mansion, new car and a trip to Tahiti. Just the bare necessities to sustain life.

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:09 AM
reply to post by ExPostFacto

Thats why Obama was elected, because what he said sounded good.

Now hes had a chance to back up what he said and his ratings are dropping like a rock.

That should tell you something.

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:10 AM
reply to post by ExPostFacto

Where does it decrease spending and operating cost? What I had read the bill clearly states studies are needed to figure out all the cost.

How can you know this?

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Xtinguish]

posted on Aug, 8 2009 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by jd140

Let me tell you something about healthcare insurance. I used to spend $300 a month for my insurance to cover my family. When I took my son to the doctor to get his required shots it cost me $150 out of my own pocket each time. I thought what the hell good is insurance that I pay for that doesn't cover what I need. I did the math and figured out that I should just save my money and pay cash out of pocket the times that I need to see the doctor. I canceled my insurance.

I returned to the doctor for my sons two year check up. Another series of shots was required. I had no insurance, and didn't qualify for medicare. The doctor gave the shots, and upon leaving I paid $50 out of my pocket. I asked the doctor why this time was so cheap, and they told me when I was on insurance the insurance company would only cover the expensive brand of the shot. Since I had no insurance I received the free government shot and all I paid for was the administration of the shot.

This is why insurance is a farce. They dictate certain procedures that aren't necessary. They dictate certain drugs. The argument that government would dictate to your doctor is a possibility I must admit, but it's already happening from the insurance companies working with all the drug companies to administer their brands of medication at higher prices, and probably unneeded treatments as well.

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