World's largest science group rejecting man-made climate fears

Even the Sargasso Sea Surface Temperature shows that the temperature during the Medieval Warm Period, as well as the Roman Warm period was much higher than it was until at least 1998. Note that this only shows the data until 1998, which was labeled as one of the warmer years in the 20th century.

I can't excerpt from that site because of copyright issues, but here is the link with a graph as well as information which states that most of the 0.8 warming which occurred from 1866-1998 happened before most of the CO2 increase occurred.

Another thing to note is that during the Roman Warm, and Medieval Warm periods atmospheric CO2 levels did not change much.

www2.tu-berlin.de...

[edit on 31-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Not at all...

My whole point is that you should cling to nothing that another says.

You don't need external justification for your beliefs in order to believe them. And when you continue to look for justification, you are simply attempting to manipulate yourself or others.

I don't believe in anything other than what arises within my own mind. I will take into consideration what others say, but there is no human more perfect or less fallible than myself.

Be your own God.

Your response only shows that this topic has turned into a religion to some.

Like another member said, you are implying that you only need your own faith to make a justifiable conclusion on this topic. This is not the way science works.

All humans are imperfect, but many humans have more knowledge than you on certain topics, or who knows maybe on all topics since you are clearly saying you only need your own beliefs on topics such as this one, and your beliefs are not based on any facts, but just on "your beliefs."

[edit on 31-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I truly feel Global Warming was pretty much a scam from the start. It's a solar issue. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't go green and treat this planet better than it's currently being treated at the moment.

So there has been blips over millions of years, but the current climate change is the most severe by far. And it's just cooincidently because of a cycle we just happened to be hitting right when we hit the industrial revolution? Huh.. those are like... lottery-winning odds there.

I am not sure either way honestly, no one is. But I feel that the idea of global warming due to industrial waste be it from factories or cars shouldn't be ignored, because it's not convenient to do so. Not to mention, being "green" (i.e. doing things to prolong the health of our planet) should be something we do even without the threat / theory of global warming. Do we really need to be roasting and dying for us to realize that pouring tons of crap into our skies is not a "good thing?"

I'm sorry...but ACS might be the largest "science" group, but has anyone questioned why? Probably because they are lenient on who can become a member.

From what I can gather anyone can apply to ACS. There is no guarantee that its members are actually scientists. I'm not discounting that there are probably some bright ACS members.


I'm sick of the debate on global warming. From what I've read it seems that man is contributing somewhat to climate change, but there is so much propaganda out there on both sides due to politics.

Who cares if men are causing it. Let's stop using oil and gas in order to have sustainable economies...since we have reached peak oil already! And if it happened to cause global warming, well then yay.

And let's say global warming is naturally occurring. Okay, let's find a solution to the problem rather then bickering.





[edit on 31-7-2009 by Nickmare]

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
I truly feel Global Warming was pretty much a scam from the start. It's a solar issue. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't go green and treat this planet better than it's currently being treated at the moment.

Agreed! I couldn't have stated it better.

I thought it was common knowledge that the majority of the science community has rejected man made global warming for a few years now. ( excluding a few main stream ones )

Why would the Earth not be expected to naturally have its own climate change. I'm sure Earth goes through certain cycles for its own good. I'm really surprised by this article, because any scientist who went against global warming (Dole or Bush) that they were discredited or called liars.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by isa75]

Originally posted by Solar.Absolution

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
I truly feel Global Warming was pretty much a scam from the start. It's a solar issue. However, this doesn't mean we shouldn't go green and treat this planet better than it's currently being treated at the moment.

Agreed! I couldn't have stated it better.

Exactly I know for a fact that we are treating our world in a shameful way. I don't need any political/scientific spin to convince me we are headed down a path of self destruction if we don't straighten out our act.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


STOP listening to the beliefs of OTHERS... STOP using what OTHERS say to JUSTIFY your own BELIEFS... STAND on your own observations or you STAND ON NOTHING


[edit on 31-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

This post is just another deflection attempt and about the worst piece of advice I've seen handed out on ATS.

Allow me to paraphrase the quoted post:

Don't pay attention to experimental evidence from scientists. Instead, rely on your own very small-sample anecdotal evidence (gee, it sure seems hot here today) in order to make your own judgments as to what's going on with the earth's climate. And do this especially if your own personal agenda does not agree with the findings put out by scientists.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by centurion1211]

Not at all...when you see a title like the one in the OP it just reeks of "SEE SEE SEE! THEY THINK SO TOO!"

When in reality it doesn't matter... laws aren't made based on science. They are made based on beliefs, fears, and desires.

I'm not saying throw science out, I'm saying don't go around saying that something a scientist says is gospel....

And just because "the association with the largest group of scientists" are rebelling against one of their representatives doesn't conclude anything other than there is dissension amongst scientists.

It's one thing to say "Look at this evidence, and why I believe this evidence points to X" At the very least there is a thought process going on in the individual at that time. But to claim "These Holy Men think so!" Is the worst example of thinking for oneself I have ever seen....

And look, I have no idea one way or another whether or not the changes in our climate are because of us. I do know that to think we could or couldn't based on some "gut feel" is erroneous. I know previous civilizations *have* indeed been their own downfall because of their actions in the environment.

Does that mean we are at this time? No, it doesn't.

Does that mean we should go ahead and pollute our environment because we don't know if it will cause our demise? no.

The only side I am on is the "Let's stop polluting" side... that's it.


[edit on 31-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

So, a large professional association with strong ties and lots of funding from various chemical industries, is terring us pollution isn't bad, to put it into a nutshell.

Huh. well, I'm sold!

Anyone who has had an aquarium knows if you crap in your environment long enough, it gets polluted. I follow my own common sense on this issue and things are not the same as when I grew up in the 50s. I don't care if you think the sun is warming things us, we have had to add to the problems and anything we can do to make them better, so be it.

1. The scientists are challenging the editorial, not necessarily the science behind the editor's beliefs. They objected to the editor's use of an insulting name (Climate Change Deniers), which was a way to lump up everyone who disagrees into a single, easily-attacked group. These so-called "deniers" run the spectrum from lunatic fringe to highly informed, thoughtful, concerned experts. You can't cram them all into a single group.

The tone of the editor's article was arrogant and offensive, whether the science was valid or not. This is what was objectionable.

2. These scientists are chemists and engineers, not climatologists, geologists, or others whose specialties would be more likely to have facts about global warming. They may belong to the world's largest science group, but they were individuals expressing their opinion on an editorial page.

3. This is NOT the American Chemical Society issuing an official statement. It is nothing more than a few scientists taking issue with the editor's comments.

4. Consider who advertises in Chemical and Engineering News. That's where the money comes from. Those are the people you want to keep happy, if you hope for your publication to succeed. Hint: It's not Greenpeace or the EPA.

Originally posted by fleabit
So there has been blips over millions of years, but the current climate change is the most severe by far. And it's just cooincidently because of a cycle we just happened to be hitting right when we hit the industrial revolution? Huh.. those are like... lottery-winning odds there.

............

It has nothing to do about convinience, and as i showed and stated it is not true that we are in the most severe Climate Change...

There have been worse Climate Changes, and much faster Climate Changes than the one Earth has been undergoing.

As a matter of fact, the activity of the Sun had been increasing at the same time that temperatures were increasing on Earth. Not only that but every major planet with an atmosphere, and even Moons such as Titan, have been undergoing dramatic Climate Changes in the form of warming as the Earth has been undergoing.

CO2 has NOTHING to do with pollution, or smog. CO2 is in reality needed by the green biomass of this planet. Every living being on this planet, and including plants, and trees are CARBON based, and we need CO2 for life to exist on this planet just as much as we need oxygen.

It is actually a known fact that with higher levels of atmospheric CO2 Earth's green biomass thrives.

There are other real problems that noone in the AGW camp is addressing, instead they are focusing on taxing the hell out of everyone for a gas that EVERY living being exhales, and needs for sustenance.

CO2 is NOT a pollutant, just like water vapor is NOT a pollutant, yet the EPA already labeled CO2 a pollutant, and has been trying to label water vapor as a pollutant too.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by chiron613


Yet most of the 1,200 so called scientific experts" who were part of the IPCC latest report are being claimed to be experts in Climate Change, when the fact is that about 30-50 were the only experts in Climate change, and many of them disagree with the claims made by the IPCC Policymakers, and politicians.

The AGW camp has been using the claim that most scientific groups agree with the IPCC, when this has NEVER been the truth.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Oh boy... just like the claim of the AGW camp that all scientists who disagree are oil stooges...

Can you prove to us how CO2 is a pollutant?....

For that matter, how about the fact that the EPA has also been trying to label water vapor as a pollutant... How is that so?.... I guess soon enough oxygen will also be a pollutant....

Science is like a mountain top. You never reach the peak and it's never downhill. It's a struggle forever to the top.

Just when you think you know and have the answer another question will arise.

This disagreement in the scientific community only strengthens the case that we really don't have a clear answer. Back to the drawing board guys because, "It's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll" ~AC/DC

Originally posted by Nickmare
I'm sorry...but ACS might be the largest "science" group, but has anyone questioned why? Probably because they are lenient on who can become a member.

From what I can gather anyone can apply to ACS. There is no guarantee that its members are actually scientists. I'm not discounting that there are probably some bright ACS members.

Sorry but that is BS, you have to be a chemistry scientist in order to be part of this scientific organization.

All I see you doing is trying to dismiss what they have to say, but I can see why. For most of you who have responded and tried to dismiss this it is all about "faith", and not facts.

Originally posted by Nickmare
I'm sick of the debate on global warming. From what I've read it seems that man is contributing somewhat to climate change, but there is so much propaganda out there on both sides due to politics.

Can you show PROOF that mankind is causing Climate Change with anthropogenic CO2?...

Originally posted by Nickmare
Who cares if men are causing it. Let's stop using oil and gas in order to have sustainable economies...since we have reached peak oil already! And if it happened to cause global warming, well then yay.

So stop using your computer, and stop using your car, and stop using anything and everything that has plastic, but don't demand the rest of the world to do so based on the AGW religion...

Oh but wait, i still see you using your computer....

Originally posted by Nickmare
And let's say global warming is naturally occurring. Okay, let's find a solution to the problem rather then bickering.

How in the heck do you stop the Sun from changing activity?....

How do you stop the Earth from rotating around the Sun?....

How do you stop the Solar System from moving through space and entering different regions of space which affect the dynamics of the Solar System, and which also do affect Climate change on Earth?...

There is no solution to Climate change, there is only preparation for the changes.

Good Job!!

We all know that there is climate change. However we humans effect a insignificant amount.

Another good example how scientists are standing up to the brass knuckles of the Global Warming Nazis.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Al Gore is probably thinking of some way of dismissing this.
All of this common sense keeps getting in Al Gores way.
Climate Change is happening but it is always changing.
Ice ages come and go here on Earth.
If you don't like ice ages, move to the moon.
It's very peaceful up there.