How is an ontological proof fallacious?

Are you at all familiar with concepts from Taoism, Buddhism and moden quantum physics, including the subject/object problem, non-locality and Bohm's holographic universe?

There is one thing, and consciousness is it's foundation. It is self aware. Everything is a part of it, and caused with intent or will, or there would be nothing at all.

Being is not fallacious nor is an argument for a self aware God consciousness based upon it, and the final relationship between the subjective observer and the objective reality.

Edited: double post

[edit on 28-7-2009 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by Solomons
And whats that quote? can't remember exactly but

" I propose that we are all atheists,i just believe in one less god than you do.When you understand why you don't believe in other gods, then you will understand why i don't believe in yours" I like that quote

Care to explain what is meant by that quote you like?

Why, because believers believe in only one universal God and none other, would an atheist not believe? That doesn't make any sense to me, except as a rebellious statement of non-conformity, which is no reason not to believe something. In fact, contempt, prior to investigation is a sure fire way to keep a man in everlasting ignorance.

I do not want to get too off topic here but what is the deal with Monkey Jesus? Is this real or a joke? I am asking because I am honestly not sure. Some people have some strange beliefs and Monkey Jesus is one that I have not come across before.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Atheism tends to subsribe to a materalist monist viewpoint (matter is primary) and in that sense, it is narrow minded or close minded in relation to a monistic idealism (consciousness is primary), which opens up the possibility of a universal "God"-consciousness, which is self aware - by any difinition, God.

I'm open minded to there being an invisible being that created and guides the universe and everything in it to the degree that you're open minded to the idea that gravity can be explained by invisible fairies holding your feet to the Earth so you don't fly off and into space.

There could in fact be invisible fairies holding your feet to the Earth, but why would you invoke an unnecessary variable which only serves to complicate the issue? (IE: Where did the fairies come from? Why are they holding our feet to the Earth?) You can eliminate the fairies from the equation and use science and what we know about how the universe really works to explain why we don't fly off into space in a much more intellectually satisfying way.

There are some paths of modern science which are leading to the idea of a universal "God-mind" as essential to existence as a prime mover, and that it involves consciousness, and self awareness, and as such would be imbued with such characteristics as omniscience, compassion, a perfect will, etc. etc.

No, there really aren't any paths of modern science that are leading in that direction, sorry.

The problem with the atheist position is that they are indeed locked up in it, by asking that God be shown them on a plate under glass. I would suggest that any hardened atheist at some point in their life, expose their mind to 5-MeO-DMT, to get a flavour for the type of God most rational and scientifically minded believers are talking about and advocating for as a very distinct possibility.

So because you don't understand the mechanism of action regarding DMT and the psychological effects which are derived from this mechanism, your god must be somehow intervening? I see.

Like I said, they MAY be more untelligent, up to the point where they are prepared to deny their own existence, before admitting to or ackowledging a creator God and a universal, self aware conscious being within whom exists everything in potentia and actuality.

Your matter of fact statement lacks... facts. In fact they're completely absent from your post.

The atheist lacks in imagination, and they begin with a fundamental presupposition that God cannot be proven, or experienced. And they are sadly mistaken in that regard. They are also very arrogant in my experience, re-affirmed again in reading this thread.

Do we? Tell me more about what I presuppose! Maybe it's another part of silly atheist dogma, but I believe education is vital, especially when you make assertions in debate; I don't presuppose anything.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Atheism tends to subsribe to a materalist monist viewpoint (matter is primary) and in that sense, it is narrow minded or close minded in relation to a monistic idealism (consciousness is primary), which opens up the possibility of a universal "God"-consciousness, which is self aware - by any difinition, God.

I'm open minded to there being an invisible being that created and guides the universe and everything in it to the degree that you're open minded to the idea that gravity can be explained by invisible fairies holding your feet to the Earth so you don't fly off and into space.

Bu bye to "The atheists are smarter than believers" thread. I've seen enough. I'm outta here.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Well I sure hope that's not the reason you're an athiest..?!

There doesn't need to be a particular reason for not believing in something.
Is there any particular reason you don't believe in pink unicorns?
Why would you to begin with? There's no evidence. No reason.
Aren't we all born atheists? That is.. I've never heard of someone being born with the belief in a deity.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Here's my reasoning - the universe is made, not of matter in the traditional sense but of energy, and in particular, information, and this information is distributed or shared NON-LOCALLY (see Bell's Theorem). It is also holographic, as is the human mind (see the word of David Bohm and Karl Pibram), and intertwined with human consciousness which resides at the apex of cosmic evolution (remember the whole universe is a non-local interdependant whole).

Would not such a system have plenty of time to become self consciousness, if it was not already from the very moment of creation? And in part, it is through YOU, the atheist no less, than God is increasing his awareness!

Isn't that all just a theory though?
There's a lot of them out there...
And still no evidence of any god.
That's really all it comes down to for most atheists.

Originally posted by jd140
I don't accept or reject theism. I don't understand your thinking that I have to choose between atheism or theism. I reject and accept both equally.

That's not what I said.
You're either a theist (believe in a god), or you're not a theist (don't believe in god).
There is no inbetween.
You said you don't believe in God, so you must be an atheist.

Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]

So in the broadest sense of the word, if you don't pray to a god you're an atheist. Simple as that.
The word atheist is widely misunderstood as has been demonstrated several times in this thread.

Originally posted by jd140
Until someone proves to me with concrete proof that there is or isn't a God then I am on the sidelines watching both sides trying to prove they are right.

I understand.

Originally posted by jd140
I honestly don't see how either side can be so vain as to say they are right when nobody will know for a fact until they die.

That's certainly not what I'm doing.
There could be a god.
There could be an invisible goat floating in the cosmos.
Who am I to say? I've never been there.
But until there's any evidence, I'm not gonna hold my breath.