You UFO people are all mad

You UFO people are all mad... There is no proof of UFO's except a few grainy photos and the statement of a few crack pots!!!


Well... that’s what I used to think

I used to avoid UFO forums and websites like the plague...

But i have been looking into this subject recently... and the more I look, the more interesting it gets. There are thousands of witness statements from all walks of life and some of the footage I have seen (especially from Russia and Mexico for some odd reason) is very convincing.

Now I’m not saying that i am fully on board with the whole ET thing (yet)... i don’t think that the evidence is strong enough (in my mind) to say for sure one way or the other. Travellers from the future? ET's? Experimental aircraft? Who knows... But there is defiantly something going on that can’t simply be put down to Chinese lanterns or over active imaginations... and it seems that there is a surge in sightings at the moment.

Anyway... just wanted to say sorry for pre judging all you UFO believers and I would like raise some points and ask some questions...

1) Location

As I just mentioned, there seems to be a lot of activity around Russia and Mexico... do any of you guys have theories as to why this is?

2) Black Projects

For those of you who believe that it is experimental aircraft (black projects) how do you explain the sightings over majors city’s and the harassment of airliners?

3) ET’s reason

To those of you who believe it is in fact ET's... Do you think that they are trying to send a message or do you believe they are trying to just watch us covertly?? Because either way I don’t think they are doing a good job. If they are trying to send a message you would think that beings able to traverse the vast distance of space would have communication skills more advanced than a bit of weaving and bobbing in the sky. And if they are trying to be covert... well that one speaks for itself. Or, maybe there is a completely different reason for them being here that we haven’t thought of or considered!!

4) Abduction

I heard that some scientist have put many of the Alien abduction story’s down to sleep disorders such as sleep paralysis... what do you guys make of this? Personally i don’t buy it because I have suffered from sleep paralysis a few times in the past and it was nothing like being abducted and probed... Very weird and a bit scary, but nothing like what I’ve heard alien abductions are like. However, would aliens with super advanced technology not have mastered the art of non-invasive surgery? Would they really need crude surgical instruments and implants?

Forgive me if these questions have been raised before but I’m new to this section of ATS.

Oh... one last thing... i still think some of you are nuts, but then so am i so it’s all good

Well, maybe you need to experience a close encounter so you could "know" instead of being insecure in your mind. Like they say in the movie "contact", "The universe is a pretty big place. If we were alone, it would seem like an awful waste of space".

I have personally had good and clear UFO sightings, and it's just very convicing for me. But one thing i know, we cannot impose a belief on anyone, we have to experiment on our own. Or else, one mind dominates another...

Sorry but how am i insecure in my mind?

And who is talking about imposing beliefs... No offence but did you read my post.

If you are going on just the title it’s meant as tongue in check humour!

Sorry if it caused offence.

Why are they mad ?

There is no proof they don't exist either.

If someone believes in God which there is no proof for or against its existance that is fine

But if someone believes in something else which there is no proof for or against then they are mad and delusional ?

reply to post by Discotech


OH boy... please read my post before commenting...

I am not really calling anyone mad... it was a joke to lighten the mood a little before the serious stuff...

Ok, maybe not insecure, but i was just trying to make a point, meaning the difference between beliefs and "KNOWING". I have good knowledge of human psychology and i know believing in anything (without knowing for sure) brings a form of domination on the mind. On a personal note, i don't want to believe in anything, or anyone, i just have to know for sure...

Real pictures of black project craft,has been analyzed.Seen by thousands of people over belgium.I've used these pics quite alot this past week ...joke thread?






[edit on 24-7-2009 by Solomons]

reply to post by lagenese


Er... ok...

did you read my post?

gets tin foil and sits in tin foil house and goes to sleep in my tin foil bed : p

reply to post by Muckster


I've seen three UFO's. Two I think were some unknown military craft, one I just don't know. Never looked for them and just happened upon them.

There are many like me I think. Worry about those who see them everywhere as you are likely being lied to or the person is seeking attention.

As you said there are an incredible number of sightings and maybe a tiny fraction are actual UFO's. No way to know if they are Alien and the stories from those who claim to be Aliens or have them as friends are hard to digest.

What is clear is that there are real UFO's, likely mostly military stuff and a handful that leave a giant question mark.

Then you have the every out of focus bird, every airplane light, every satellite traveling across the sky, every insect in a photo is a genuine UFO inhabited by an Alien bunch.

With those of us interested in this, as in any large group, you have to sort out the information that is worth the bother. Consider the rest entertainment.

reply to post by Muckster


Great post.
You don't really have to be a 100% INTO the E.T thing.
The important part is that you now have the ability to take this UFO matter under consideration instead of just thinking we UFO morons are twits who should be put behind bars.

Do hurry into anything. continue has you have done and continue with the research. What you choose to believe is totally up to you. But atleast now you can understand why some people believe this so much.

To be able to consider will help you to keep an open mind and think outside the box.

I give you a star for this one.

As yet, we haven't seen any clear and solid evidence of abduction implants and those might still be our military. I would imagine whoever is doing that, is advanced or advancing enough not to be so obvious leaving anything behind. I think many abduction memories are false or screen memories. I recall quite a few times they came to me, rather than to some ship. There's a strong suggestion of illusion and deception. They also seem as if to be Reptilian. It does seem they've also protected me.

I guess I'm botherd by the lack of proof as well. Even if I had something to show here, people would as if debunk it. < mad



[edit on 24-7-2009 by aleon1018]

reply to post by Muckster


I did, I was supporting what you were saying.

Some people are so defensive in their writings

Originally posted by Discotech
reply to post by Muckster

 

I did, I was supporting what you were saying.

Some people are so defensive in their writings

Sounds more like some of them are answering the thread title without reading the post.

reply to post by Muckster


Yes, i have read it, twice... I dont want you to think i'm against what you said, i just explained psychological aspects of the human mind. I do know that, by what you wrote, you need solid proof, and that is good. I also notice a slight tendancy to belief, and uncertainty within the mind. But that is the normal status of the polarized mind, because we all have the same problem. We cannot know on our own (instant knowing), the answers we seek, so we must research, and rely on others, rely on memories, rely on stories written in books or internet. That is because we are tied to the memory of the human race, which to my eyes, is dead memory.

so all the trained pilots and astronauts who seen ufos are crackpots? you should try to think outside the box sometime. it's fun.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Chovy]

Originally posted by Muckster
You UFO people are all mad... There is no proof of UFO's except a few grainy photos and the statement of a few crack pots!!!

BVG: How dare you!

Well... that’s what I used to think

I used to avoid UFO forums and websites like the plague...

But i have been looking into this subject recently... and the more I look, the more interesting it gets. There are thousands of witness statements from all walks of life and some of the footage I have seen (especially from Russia and Mexico for some odd reason) is very convincing.

BVG: Yes, those are hotspots for UFO sightings and related activity. The Mexican Government has been very open with their citizens about this, and Russia just recently released information concerning their knowledge of deep sea UFOs called USOs (Unidentified Submurged Objects I believe).

Now I’m not saying that i am fully on board with the whole ET thing (yet)... i don’t think that the evidence is strong enough (in my mind) to say for sure one way or the other. Travellers from the future? ET's? Experimental aircraft?

BVG: Soon you will realize that it very well could just simply be all three. And more. There are plenty of atmospheric phenomena, meteors, space junk, satellites, the International Space Station.... space is full of things, especially right around our atmosphere. We have left alot of things that are commonly mistaken for UFOs. So it's difficult to tell. But when you see with your own eyes something otherworldly, then you will know firsthand what the true believers in us know, that we could not create or pilot some of these bizarre craft in any known way. That leaves only one disturbing conclusion as to their origins: an unknown place somewhere in space.

Who knows... But there is defiantly something going on that can’t simply be put down to Chinese lanterns or over active imaginations... and it seems that there is a surge in sightings at the moment.

Anyway... just wanted to say sorry for pre judging all you UFO believers and I would like raise some points and ask some questions...

1) Location

As I just mentioned, there seems to be a lot of activity around Russia and Mexico... do any of you guys have theories as to why this is?

BVG: I have no theory why and I am shocked that you asked that question. I have seen this discussed many times, the UFO sightings of Mexico and Russia, but never heard someone ask "why?" I honestly do not know why. But I am very frightened by some of the things that people have filmed or claim to have seen. I do believe the people of Russia and of Mexico, they really do have alot of these sightings and some are chinese lanterns and some are swamp gas and some are weather balloons, but some, are completely unknown, and remain a mystery.

2) Black Projects

For those of you who believe that it is experimental aircraft (black projects) how do you explain the sightings over majors city’s and the harassment of airliners?

BVG: Who is to say that these are OUR black projects. If it's for example, Russia's black triangle floating around, I am sure they would take great pleasure in harrassing other jets and planes, simply for the fun of having a much superior and speedy machine. Unfortunately, this theory doesn't hold too much water. Time and again, the only conclusion that makes sense for some of these cases is that they are simply of extra terrestrial origin. There are also probes which seem to hover in our airspace for days and days gathering information about our planet, much like our probes to distant worlds may someday do (we already have the probes, but I do not believe they hover for days on end without moving a centimeter as some of these objects are claimed to do.)

3) ET’s reason

To those of you who believe it is in fact ET's... Do you think that they are trying to send a message or do you believe they are trying to just watch us covertly?? Because either way I don’t think they are doing a good job. If they are trying to send a message you would think that beings able to traverse the vast distance of space would have communication skills more advanced than a bit of weaving and bobbing in the sky. And if they are trying to be covert... well that one speaks for itself. Or, maybe there is a completely different reason for them being here that we haven’t thought of or considered!!

BVG: I think they are space tourists, drifters, truck drivers, travellers, explorers, class field trips, taxi cabs and other such mundane ideas. Except I think they are aliens. Intelligent, advanced life forms which can do and accomplish more than we ever have.

4) Abduction

I heard that some scientist have put many of the Alien abduction story’s down to sleep disorders such as sleep paralysis... what do you guys make of this? Personally i don’t buy it because I have suffered from sleep paralysis a few times in the past and it was nothing like being abducted and probed... Very weird and a bit scary, but nothing like what I’ve heard alien abductions are like. However, would aliens with super advanced technology not have mastered the art of non-invasive surgery? Would they really need crude surgical instruments and implants?

BVG: Some are simply sleep disorders, I am sure. I had a friend who sleepwalked and talked and was a difficult bastard when I tried to spend a night with him, he would get up and try to wander home in the middle of the night. He never remembered any of these adventures. But there are plenty that are wildly different. Of those, I think many are mentally unstable people with mental problems, some are bound to be complete fabrications and hoaxes, and some, have been confirmed to have at least been left with materials not of this world. It's true, conclusive proof that it was implanted by alien hands.Why they need it? We couldn't begin to imagine. Their entire life experience must vary wildly from ours.

Forgive me if these questions have been raised before but I’m new to this section of ATS.

Oh... one last thing... i still think some of you are nuts, but then so am i so it’s all good

BVG: You won't get LESS nuts by looking in to this stuff, the scholars of the truth whom we all love are generally the same ones who go bat# crazy. But it's worth it. It's all in the search, my friend.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by BaronVonGodzilla]

Sorry to make a double post but I ran out of characters in the other post above this one, and I needed to make one final point.

This person, the OP, Muckster, is researching something that he doesn't believe in.

That is something we should all encourage.

He is seeking the truth, and, possibly for the first time, is finding depth to a subject that he once thought was one dimensional.

That is something we should all encourage.

He is becoming what we are all trying to become, informed about the world around us, eager for truth, sickened by lies upon lies.

That is also something that each and every one of us should encourage.

That is why I gave you a star and flag, Muckster, and that is why I think people should enccourage these types of threads.

Very well said BaronVonGodzilla..........I could not agree more.

To the OP keep searching and learning.

I my self am like the OP,I find it hard to believe that there are that many crazy
people in the world.

The witnesses have in fact seen something.

But what that something is........To me that's the question.

I want to believe but my mind needs hard evidence.

Originally posted by Muckster
You UFO people are all mad... There is no proof of UFO's except a few grainy photos and the statement of a few crack pots!!!

Well... that’s what I used to think

I used to avoid UFO forums and websites like the plague...

See I find this sort of statement fascinating. It represents scientific / social conservatism towards UFOs. A much better question might be, if there are such a thing as UFOs, (please see my definition of UFO) why is no official organization studying this phenomenon when it could potentially mean the end of our race?

Now I’m not saying that i am fully on board with the whole ET thing (yet)... i don’t think that the evidence is strong enough (in my mind) to say for sure one way or the other. Travellers from the future? ET's? Experimental aircraft? Who knows... But there is defiantly something going on that can’t simply be put down to Chinese lanterns or over active imaginations... and it seems that there is a surge in sightings at the moment.

One of the first things I did when I first started to investigate UFOs was enumerate as many of the possibilities as I could come up with. This way with each case I investigated I could tick off possible explanations.

A sampling of the full hypothesis set can be see in 'The State of Ufology' thread and the full list here on my wiki.

The most I can say is that whatever this phenomenon represents it seems to demonstrate some form of intelligence.

Anyway... just wanted to say sorry for pre judging all you UFO believers and I would like raise some points and ask some questions...

We're a forgiving lot, or at least I am.

1) Location

As I just mentioned, there seems to be a lot of activity around Russia and Mexico... do any of you guys have theories as to why this is?

I'm not sure what your source is for this, but the number of reported incidents here in the States are nothing to scoff at. However Mexico and Russia (vid) are much more open to the idea of UFOs representing a genuine unknown phenomenon and are more willing to consider the ET hypothesis as a potential explanation. That might have something to do with it.

2) Black Projects

For those of you who believe that it is experimental aircraft (black projects) how do you explain the sightings over majors city’s and the harassment of airliners?

I struggled with this for awhile. I put together a thread enumerating all the possible known "strange" military aircrafts. I've since been able to make a strong argument against the "black projects" hypothesis. To accomplish this I read a number of books that advocated this approach (the best being "Man-Made UFOs 1944-1994 - 50 Years of Suppression"), watched several of Nick Cook's documentaries that promoted this line of thinking, and read many, many books on the history of US & Russian secret aircrafts. So I think I have as many of the facts in favor of the "black projects" hypothesis as are publicly available.

Though there are very good arguments in favor of highly bizarre aircrafts that might have been perceived as other-worldly crafts. There are likewise many incidents that are so far outside the envelope of what's possible that the secret aircraft argument goes right out the window.

3) ET’s reason

To those of you who believe it is in fact ET's... Do you think that they are trying to send a message or do you believe they are trying to just watch us covertly?? Because either way I don’t think they are doing a good job. If they are trying to send a message you would think that beings able to traverse the vast distance of space would have communication skills more advanced than a bit of weaving and bobbing in the sky. And if they are trying to be covert... well that one speaks for itself. Or, maybe there is a completely different reason for them being here that we haven’t thought of or considered!!

I'm not entirely sold on the ET hypothesis, but if it is some non-human or non present-day human observing us then the simplest explanation is we're being observed as a part of an experiment. There's no shortage of explanations for why extraterrestrial creatures might be here. Some people advocate they're our gods, others believe they're trying to save us, others claim they're trying to hybridize us, and on and on ad infinitum.

4) Abduction

I heard that some scientist have put many of the Alien abduction story’s down to sleep disorders such as sleep paralysis... what do you guys make of this? Personally i don’t buy it because I have suffered from sleep paralysis a few times in the past and it was nothing like being abducted and probed... Very weird and a bit scary, but nothing like what I’ve heard alien abductions are like. However, would aliens with super advanced technology not have mastered the art of non-invasive surgery? Would they really need crude surgical instruments and implants?

There are a number of abduction reports where the person claims they've been operated on, but upon return find no scars. I suggest consulting the two authorities Budd Hopkins and Dr. David Jacobs. Indeed there are cases where people report scars or "scoops" missing. Perhaps these are biopsies?

I'll be honest I have a very hard time accepting abduction reports without corroboration by some form of analytic equipment (i.e. radar).

Forgive me if these questions have been raised before but I’m new to this section of ATS.

It sounds to me like you could benefit from the following threads:

1. 'A Brief Proof of UFOs' (wiki)
   
2. 'The State of Ufology'
   
3. 'UFOs: Asking the Right Questions ...'
   
4. 'Free UFO Researcher Starter Pack'
   
5. 'Expert's short list'
   
6. 'Top 100 UFO cases - Revealed!'

Also before you delve too deep in to the subject I strongly suggest you investigate for yourself whether or not there's a "grand foul-up or a conspiracy cover-up."

It's probably the most important, though least asked, question facing ufology.

Cheers
-X

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Xtraeme]