Jesus Christ is the only way

Originally posted by xelamental

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by xelamental

 

There is no sin or evil in Heaven. And when the final day arrives, there will be no evil left on earth either. That will be a day of honest to goodness 'population reduction' ......

That is why Jesus is returning - to deal with satan, and his followers.

And to take the ones who have chosen Him/Christ, to Heaven.

You DO have free will - you can choose Jesus or reject Him.

But you can't reject Him and expect to live in Heaven with Him either.

That is only fair dontcha think?


Think about what you are saying. Basically, we have no free will anymore. Can you say robot army for zombie jesus?

reply to post by pasttheclouds


before you go any furhter read this website, and notice it says you will be accused according to moses' law www.injil.org...

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
You DO have free will - you can choose Jesus or reject Him.

But you can't reject Him and expect to live in Heaven with Him either.

That is only fair dontcha think?

Think about it. Once you get to heaven (or in some fundamentalists minds - once you accept him at any point during you life) you have no choice from then on. It's insane.

If you think you do have a choice once in heaven, explain how please.

reply to post by clever024


i'm not backpaddling.

why do you think there is need for an elijah when you understand scripture ?
what is big delusion ?
seeing the antichrist tomorrow ? or maybe that figure is not
the bas one everyone thinks he will be.
what is god ? One ?

i say, god is one, there is oneness
people are dual, they are not one yet,
they choose to make the black white
to forgive, and grow towards oneness
every lie that becomes a truth,
is god that grows the son in you.

the truth is the father, the lies are dead.

Originally posted by clever024
reply to post by FiatLux

 

no In fact, The Father, does not condemn. people condemn themselves with their own actions, The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and righteousness..... so in fact, what you understand heaven to be is in fact the disincarnated state with the father. but what you kinda said is we are all God... which is inaccurate, we are Creations of God. There will be another Physical Manifestation of God some time very soon... in fact he may already be back according to scripture. Because the next "physical manifestation of God" is going to be at one point in his life just normal man according to scripture hence the way aJesus talked about him "The Son of Man" which yes Jesus did refer to himself s that too, but in the book of John it says at the end of the age, He will come to you and guide you into all truth, He come directly FROM the Father and will be sent in MY NAME. which will be the second coming of Christ. the judge of all things living and dead

"but what you kinda said is we are all God... which is inaccurate, we are Creations of God"

Ummm, gee, wouldn`t that in fact make us a part of God? We are living sparks of the creator, sparks of the one. This my good man makes us a living part of God.

"He will come to you and guide you into all truth, He come directly FROM the Father and will be sent in MY NAME. which will be the second coming of Christ"

Ahh, you even said it. But, do you even understand it? It`s not Jesus the man that is coming, it is the Christ that is coming(already here). It is what Jesus had within him that is returning, that higher consciousness of being is what is coming, sent by the father for us to have within ourselves, so that we may better understand our purpose. And that purpose is, to become a more spiritual being then an ego being. In other words, not so wrapped up in ourselves instead of the spirit.



[edit on 27-9-2009 by FiatLux]

reply to post by clever024


i read the site,
they do not understand god.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.…but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

God is one, his son becomes one = one = one = 1 = 1
right ?

god's only son is god, another name christ, another name everything

reply to post by clever024


The law accuses the site says,
i ask you, which is your law ?

curse or blessing ? different laws

blessing = god is one = love god = love all
curse = follow symbology, find witnesses to accuse = god is divided

Originally posted by clever024
reply to post by FiatLux

 

Ok its not the Heavenly Father you have to watch out for sending you to hell, It's His SON, who you seem to have rejected.... The Father does not Judge, all Judgments have been passed to the Son. as i stated earlier to CONVICT of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. THE ONLY WAY FOR FOGIVENESS IS THROUGH THE SON, BECAUSE IN ALL FACT, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FATHER PERSONALLY, YOU HAVE A CONCEPT, BUT YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THE TRUE GOD BECAUSE YOU HAVE REJECTED HIS TRUE SON AND HIS TEACHINGS.

On the contrary sir. I have not rejected the teachings of Jesus by any means. I follow them very much. You see, Jesus was here to teach us, not to take dictatorship over the people. Big difference there.

Oh, by the way....when did Jesus change his last name from Ben-Joseph to Christ? He was born Jesus Ben-Joseph. Or Jesus, son of Joseph, or, of the house of Joseph.

Also, enough of the cap lock, ok, it looks like your either screaming or yelling at me, so please stop it.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by FiatLux

 

No one could "scare" you if you had not chosen to come onto an obviously Christian titled thread.

It`s not me i`m worried about. It`s the belief system that many fundamentalists want others to follow that I find disheartning.

Originally posted by FiatLux

Originally posted by clever024
reply to post by FiatLux

 

Ok its not the Heavenly Father you have to watch out for sending you to hell, It's His SON, who you seem to have rejected.... The Father does not Judge, all Judgments have been passed to the Son. as i stated earlier to CONVICT of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. THE ONLY WAY FOR FOGIVENESS IS THROUGH THE SON, BECAUSE IN ALL FACT, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FATHER PERSONALLY, YOU HAVE A CONCEPT, BUT YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THE TRUE GOD BECAUSE YOU HAVE REJECTED HIS TRUE SON AND HIS TEACHINGS.

On the contrary sir. I have not rejected the teachings of Jesus by any means. I follow them very much. You see, Jesus was here to teach us, not to take dictatorship over the people. Big difference there.

Oh, by the way....when did Jesus change his last name from Ben-Joseph to Christ? He was born Jesus Ben-Joseph. Or Jesus, son of Joseph, or, of the house of Joseph.

Also, enough of the cap lock, ok, it looks like your either screaming or yelling at me, so please stop it.

I always laugh when you see some xtians arguing over semantics & interpretation. If you pull them up on this - why would an omnipotent creator make it ambiguous - they always say that there is no argument; they are right and the other one is wrong.

I love it. Cognitive dissonance fundamentalist extreme team!

reply to post by nomorecruelty

"We are to, yes, fear God - He is the Creator, our Creator. When I growing up, I feared the wrath of my father if I had done something wrong.

Fear doesn't always mean 'to be afraid of'. It also means to 'respect' - to give respect, to be respectful of.

That is why He sent His Son to earth in the flesh - so we could relate and understand better - b/c none of us, in our humanly bodies and minds, will truly understand right now.

It's not meant to "scare" you - it's meant to draw you closer to Jesus and to put all of your faith in Him.

And yes, you have the option of rejecting Him. That is entirely your decision."

You see........that is the difference between you and I. I have never rejected Jesus the teacher, not at all. I see and understand things in a different light then you. I have learned that a word can have many meanings, not just one.

After some reflection, there just no point in arguing with you about any of this. In the past year or so I have subsided most of these debates as it strengthens the ego.

Just keep in mind the great schism of 1054. It was when Eastern and Western Christianity split up. West was saying that the Bible needs to be theologically deduced using logic and reason. Whereas East said that logic and reason are faulty and limited, and that the Bible has to be deduced from the perspective of having the Holy spirit indwelled in you along with transcendence, ego death, and Union with God.

Western Christianity became the dominant force and brought about inquisitions, the "only we are right" attitude, not allowing average man to own a Bible, then the whole Western mentality got transferred over to the U.S. and is what we have here.

The Eastern side was adamant about becoming like Jesus and the disciples, with Mystical experiences, the Spirit, ego death, and ultimately Union (oneness) with God while still in the Body.

Those who did achieve these states were the Authorities in the East and had much to say that was mystical and that was additional wisdom taught by the Spirit. We dont find many individuals in this state here in the U.S., were it's mostly a goody two shoes Sunday charade and once the majority leave the church sermon, they go right back to worldly acts.

That's why I question strongly everything you have to say about this matter. I would rather intently listen to and take as an authorty on this subject, a Christian Monk/Mystic/Hermit/Solitary who spends 18 hours a day reading, meditating on, and going within(like when Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you) then a western mind who has switched ego identities from a lost soul to a saved Christian.
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Question everything on the other hand. In the counsel of Nicea, the Apocalypse of Peter was more popular among the counsel and the people and favored over Revelations as being the last book in the Bible. Somewhere in the counsel, in the last minute they reverted to revelations.

Why? Only because in the Peter version, Jesus admits there is a heaven, hell, etc ....but then tells Peter that eventually all things come back to Heaven as parts of God and the church just couldnt have something like this, because when people read this they wouldn't care about salvation now.

ALong with that, how many of the Counsel of Nicea members had the Holy Spirit fully indwelled and had Union with God? Or as in most political situations, did the ego's of these people decide the fate of the Bible over the Spirit's decision.
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Branching out from there, what stumps most theologians and Christians is when I ask this:

You mean to tell me, I had no choice in the matter of being born, I am thrust into a world of corruptedness, worldly bias, born a sinner, and automatically have a one way ticket to hell with a small chance of eventually being saved since not everyone becomes a Christian?

Wow that sure is unfair, especially when we take into account all those billions that have existed that never heard of the Bible, or if they did and rejected it, was because they were raised biasedly being programmed to be pagans, muslims, etc being taught to reject all other religions. For that they go to hell for eternity.

Ha!!!! Come on man that's laughable. If I was God, i would let no one be in Hell because I love everyone and this Love is based on seeking God. Yeah I still get angered by some things, but thats the ego ...and God has no ego, is pure Love.
________
On top of this people take the Bible as the Words of God, uncorrupted, unrefuted, and just about worship the book as seen here in the West.

The truth is, the Bible is a collection of books of the 44 authors' opinions of what they saw or heard, poetry, historical accounts, personal advice, etc

For example God gives Moses the 10 commandments including do not kill, but then Orders Moses and his army to kill all the Cannanites, and other surrounding groups along with the women and children. You see there? Children also ....Jesus loved Children and would never have one killed.

God is no respector of persons and Loves all and is in all. He wouldn't be ordering someone to kill a group of others. This is simply a biased militaristic ego based opinion of the author. Just like you always hear Muslims saying that "God wants the world to be all Islam" Its human ego's projecting their own wants/needs and justifying it with spirituality. We see this all the time in all religions.
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ALso, you are quick to attack new age and other religions. Let me just say that for years I have prayed to be delivered from lust. My prayers were never answered, non of the Church elders or other pastors that I knew could help in this department, tried everything. So much so, that I even started studying other paths and how they deal with lust.

That is when I gained HUGE insights from buddhism, yoga, hinduism, and new age teachings on the psychological/Physiological connections between the min/body connections.

I'm talking about knowledge that would infinitely help all Christians who knew about this. Then diving deeper into my studies, I found these same paths discussing the mechanics of the ego and how to kill the ego, and in doing so then there is a deep Union relationship with God. Just like Paul says in Corinthians "I die to the self daily". Well I uncovered in the mystical traditions the science for just that.

But because you guys are living in mental constructs where labels are used with massive opinionated biases based on pre-programmed cultural indoctrination .....you won't allow the value of perennial wisdom to guide you into a deep ego-less relationship with God.
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Next point: perennial wisdom
Meaning universal and time less. For example, "Do not stick your hand in the fire or you will get burnt" This is wisdom that is universal and is true from the very first man, now, and in the future.

But if an Atheist, Hindu, or Buddhist said this, then Westernized Christians automatically attach a label with biases to something that is not owned by any of these but is by itself truth and perennial.

Thus in the case of let's say New Age, which is simply a bunch of different religions philosophies all mixed into one modern package, you guys look at the label and say, "New Age" and automatically attack and judge it unbeknowst to yourselves that within it is contained the very same characteristics of your own path, albeit combined with other things.

Or in the case of Christian Mysticism. You had no idea what it is, and yet automatically assume it's man made, it's false, it's new age, and all this other baggage that is biased labels. In reality a Christian Mystic becomes one by undergoing, through God's own grace, all the direct experiences that entail the Divine mysteries including stuff Jesus himself experienced.
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Yeah granted I came off full ego questioning you, in the context of who are you to say the you are right and only your view is right. The difference is afterwards, 'I' drop the 'I' ego complex and rest in God.

All this to say is that you needed to hear that. I was once like you and somebody came around and said the exact things to me that I said to you. So I stepped back and took the advice and began examining this 'I', this "self that has to die daily", this ego and its endless biased labeling on everything and as a result limiting the truth and not experiencing it directly.
____
All that happens to Christians, and did so to me and you, is one ego got replaced by another and they both duke it out. The Old sinning self got replaced by this new "want to be righteous, I walk with God, I'm right and your wrong" self.

The fact is, as a Christian, all of these selves must die including this one that argues and debates people. When all these "selves" are dead then there is Union with God and resting in that Union with God there is no-thing to be said.

Part 2.

One last point I wanted to bring to attention is you labeling everything that isn't in accord to what your version of Christianity says is "of the devil."
You should strictly re-examine your Helen "Mama" Boucher, mother of the character Water Boy(Adam Sandler) played by Kathy Bates, attitude of everything but what the Bible says being "of the devil". It's just another indoctrinated aspect of a false ego that goes around with unexamined justifications to assume labels to anything that even slightly is at odds with what this ego self "thinks" is right, as it being wrong.
____
We really have no idea within what context Jesus was saying that he is the only way to God.

You can take a huge multitude of contexts and dress them up in this saying of Jesus. We would have to be able to keep in context, all contexts, to really have an unbiased view of what he was saying.

For example we can say, he said that in reference only to the Jews because they were hard headed and would not listen.

Another context we can say, is that he is saying that as perennial wisdom in as much as anyone in any path who is dying to the self, self sacrificing, and striving to Love God is one who is going throug Jesus or the exact same changes that Jesus speaks of.

Another context; In the Bible, God gives the authority of Judgement to Jesus. So everyone who is judged after physical death is judged by Jesus himself even if they are from another religion if we keep in mind perennial wisdom/philosophy.

You see, we can keep these contexts going for ever and ever. Unless we know from him directy which one is the true context, it is all theoretical.

Now I myself am a Christian also. But to except that Jesus is the only way, for me would be leaving a heck load of people out of the equation of Heaven. Mind you I have friends that I grew up with and still have that are muslims, yogi's, mystics, agnostics, and atheists. I want all of them with me in heaven and Love all of them seeing them as brothers of mine, but yet unaware brothers of the experiences that come from the Christian path like being indwelled with the Spirit and Spiritual Enlightenment (which by the way is a real phenomena).
_______
On top of this, about a year ago while sitting at my computer doing some work. In an instant I had a memory of pre-existence. I remembered existing before I was born physically. I will skip the details, but upon further examination of this, it wasn't something made up by the mind like imagination or deja vu or anything like that. It was more real with substance than recent memories of things that happened a few days ago.

Now go ahead and look up pre-existence in Christianity. You will find that it is dogmatically taught that we did not pre-exist and the ones teaching this are the Christian branches descendants of the Western part of the schism using logic and reason, whereas Eastern Christianity very much upholds the possibility of pre-existence because many monks also experience similar things.

This pre-existence I was shown by God and by the Spirit. It was a basically a side effect of my longing and life dedication to seek and find God and the experiences that come from the Spirit.

ANother example is when I got the Baptizm of the Holy SPirit, the Spirit kept inclining to me to meditate. I was so indoctrinated at that time and thought that meditation was "of the devil". It was after weeks of counseling with Monks and finding out about the Great Schism of 1054 tat I was finally able to set aside this indoctrinated "of the devil" attitude and go deep within meditation, where many Spiritual realities and truths were revealed to me in those times.

But what is Western Xtianity saying? Pre-existence and meditation is of the devil.
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Another difference between a regular Westernized Christian and a Christian mystic is Faith in the existence of God. The majority of Westerners have faith that there is a God and that Jesus was part of God, is God, or represents God.

A Christian mystic lives beyond faith, because there is a knowing through direct experience that God exists and is everywhere omipresent. In this state I have no choice what-so-ever in having Faith that God exists because his existence is an ever present moment to moment waking reality. Whereas most are only reading mere words that point one towards this reality.
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What is man made religion is throwing the mental constructs (shackles), biases, assumptions, and opinions of the mind into the direct experience and reality of God. This happens in all denominations of Christianity and all religions.

But the actual reality and experience of God himself, is beyond mind, words, constructs, opinions, labels, judgements, and assumptions. When that reality is experienced, your jaw drops to the floor and there is nothing to be said because the experience/reality is right there in your face.

Then later on we go back to everyone else aware of this reality and tell them about it using mere words for something that is beyond words.
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All this to say to Nomorecruelty. Re-examine yourself. Your constructs, ego, self that has to die daily. All these things that you speak of as far as being a Christian. Is it another "self", is it also limited, does it experience God directly, or is it simply reading about these things and making assumptions, labels, biases?

As Christians we are works in progress. A progress that leads to complete annihilation of that "self" that "ego" which is really in the way of God and of becoming like Jesus and the disciples.

Dont become addicted to debates and arguing with people. That's an aspect of the ego self that is very subtle, unexamined, and unknown by most people. I too was once taken by it so much so that it was like a drug, seeking the most intelligent theologians and scholars to debate with, which in turn was only strengthening this false ego self.

At first it was atheists, agnostics, and other religions. Then the lust for the debates became so great that it started to go in direction of our own Christian brothers. Its a subtlety that has to be made known to conquer it.

But at the same time, it is imperative to show others the mechanics of the 'I' and just how tricky it is. That is my reason for this. To bring to your attentions all of your own egos that must die. That is the real rebirth, is the death of the ego and what is left thereafter.

reply to post by pasttheclouds


ok... so let me get this straight, you understand scripture so well. plain and simple is Jesus Christ your lord and Savior, the only way to the Father?

ahh yes you are correct it is already here, but yet you deny it. see there is only ONE holy spirit, and "Christ" is not a state of mind contrary to popular belief its a state of being. and as to what law you will be judged by, the laws of moses remember Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the laws of Moses, I came to fulfill them" they are not null.... as for people who have never heard of Jesus, they will be wiped out mercifully before all hell breaks loose on earth to be judged. as for those who have died without Jesus as savior, they are not condemned to hell. they will be judged according to their works. and as for yogis and the like their teachings are very similar to that of Christ, and they live like Christ they are different than the average person persay because they try to attain knowledge from the source. but as for "the Christ state of mind" you can't assertain it because one, you basically equate yourself to Christ IMO, look in the book of revelations it says "His name and His Father's name will be on your forehead" now u think its gonna be a tatoo? no its a spiritual mark where a baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place by the embodiment of Christ "Baptizing you in the Holy Spirit" thus dwelling in you like the book of John says. he will also Exalt Jesus Christ, because in fact, Jesus WAS the holy spirit, because as I stated before there is only ONE Holy Spirit and if you read the book of revelations He is the Alpha and the Omega 2 titles for one thing.... think about that before you start assuming things you don't know JACK about. again, there are 2 parts to "God" a celestial body, and a terrestrial body, Christ is the terrestrial body.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by clever024]

reply to post by FiatLux


sorry for the caps, I get a bit agitated when people say "the Father is in me". at the age of 30 Yeshua Changed his surname and started using the TITLE of Christ. the caps and all that was actually meant for past the clouds... I have had a rough day already, a lot of turmoil in my house.... This is a subject I admit I AM fanatical about, because it is so important..... my bad i appologize

[edit on 27-9-2009 by clever024]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


you are right but just think about this, take an apple, cut it in half.... you still have one whole apple. again refer back to genesis 1:26 if you don't believe me

reply to post by xelamental


Rejecting Jesus' is a forgivable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not. some people choose not to believe. The gift of forgiveness is always there, you just have to ask for it...

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
reply to post by clever024

 

i'm not backpaddling.

why do you think there is need for an elijah when you understand scripture ?
what is big delusion ?
seeing the antichrist tomorrow ? or maybe that figure is not
the bas one everyone thinks he will be.
what is god ? One ?

i say, god is one, there is oneness
people are dual, they are not one yet,
they choose to make the black white
to forgive, and grow towards oneness
every lie that becomes a truth,
is god that grows the son in you.

the truth is the father, the lies are dead.

are you calling Jesus Christ a Lie? you obviously have NOT PAYED ATTENTION when reading the bible, again bust one out and just read genesis 1:26 and its proof there is a Godhead. and if you doubt that, then just throw away your bible and continue on your "spiritual path"

Originally posted by clever024
reply to post by FiatLux

 

sorry for the caps, I get a bit agitated when people say "the Father is in me". at the age of 30 Yeshua Changed his surname and started using the TITLE of Christ. the caps and all that was actually meant for past the clouds... I have had a rough day already, a lot of turmoil in my house.... This is a subject I admit I AM fanatical about, because it is so important..... my bad i appologize

[edit on 27-9-2009 by clever024]

No problem. Why do you get upset over that statement? Is the creator NOT inside of all of us? I believe he is. We are sparks born of the father created in his image. We come from the father, so that makes us a part of him. He is the energy and spirit that is in all of us. Many though have lost that understanding. That is the reason for the spiritual stagnation we are going through at this time and from hundreds of years past. We are now at that time of awakening within.