The unborn undying mind of the Buddha

reply to post by MischeviousElf

Really anyone who thinks after six months or a few years of staring at the clouds or reading books realizes enlightenment is slightly deluded, and this is the ego again.

I think your right. We are given very small snipets of enlightenment and because they are so over powering, so different from everyday experiences we often think we have reached enlightenment . I think its best to not even talk about ones path, just observe it and remain as ego free as is humanly possible.

reply to post by third_eye


It's interesting the way we flee from it, and find any distraction from the grand realization, I agree.

Question is - what are we actuallly afraid of?

So let us get fully present, to our fear of it, and how dangerous it would be, to let go of the mind

Originally posted by Mr Green
We are given very small snipets of enlightenment and because they are so over powering, so different from everyday experiences we often think we have reached enlightenment .

I don't know if what I've experienced is "enlightenment" (TM), but while the experiences can be very different, they feel more natural than here, like some kind of coming home or being closer to it. The more it happens, the stranger and more "put on" this world seems.

Paradoxically, I find that at time I wish to stuff my head in the proverbial sand and say, "I don't want it." Then of course I go right back to it through no conscious effort.

This enlightenment (TM) thing seems at times like the most insane jackassery anyone could get mixed up in. What the hell is wrong with me? LOL.

Probably nothing really but it's interesting to watch it play out.

I think its best to not even talk about ones path, just observe it and remain as ego free as is humanly possible.

No more rules, please. I feel free to speak freely and use my own judgement in the matter regarding what to reveal or not. No other person nor ancient codes will define my parameters.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Basically , from "my" point of view , note though I am no expert or an authority on the matter, It's not an "individual" fear but a "social" fear. When one views the world social order with a "child's" eye/mind", it's kind of the "emperor's new clothes" situation. Hence the "illusion" stated in the many scriptures can be a dangerous thing to Society - Imperial , Dictator or Democratic even.

It was not until religious bodies were generally accepted as "peaceful" or "non violent" were they accepted and welcomed to the general public. until certain individuals with vested interests hijacked the religious influences over the people and channeled it towards "matyrdom" and "kingdom of heaven" that these religious tenets were made violent.

The Emperor still isn't wearing any clothes, we just have a new emperor

The awakened mind is just what it is ........ nothing mystical about it, only about 15% of our brain is active at any moment is just because we're only using that much of our brain, our daily activities and life requires us only these areas of our brains to be active. That's all. There are no "special" powers hidden in these other areas of the brain, it's a muscle, only a tool. Like any tool we can make great or minor use of it. A hammer and chisel in the hands of Michelangelo or Uncle George who lives down the road. No difference.

I like to use this analogy ..... just cause you have a TV that can receive 5 channels does not mean there are only 5 channels of programs out there.

The circuitry is there in our brains... for the "enlightened" state of mind, it's how we "re-activate" it , without short circuiting our emotional and mental selves. Hence it's always easier for those who has "given it all up" or "losing themselves" even though it's known well enough "there's nothing for you to lose" because "you" don't exist, you're made up just like the rest of the world is "made up" to exist, you believe it because there's a trusted and commonly accepted "label" that states it exists..... a chair, a table , a computer, a you, a me ...... but it's still all make believe, the Emperor still isn't wearing any clothes.

The primal form of thoughts is often mentioned as the "beginners mind"
The Child's mind, before it was molded and restricted to conform into this make believe world that everyone agreed to believe in.
The Child's mind you once had ....... the child you once were.

~t=0~

Forgive me if this seems crude but # the world and the social order and anytihng and everything external to ourselves. Let us find eternal peace and heaven within and then move forth, in fear and trembling if needed, and love others, especially those least worthy of it, and fly right in the face of it all! If we want to solve the problem then we must be the solution, there's no other way.

This is just yet another way to escape into the duality, this time of "us vs. them" or even everyone else.

The free tickets to the party and the celebration will go out to everyone, but most will be too busy to attend - THEIR LOSS! It doesn't matter. Who cares about the 99, it's the ONE, you and me, that COUNTS!

And if we want to get all Buddhist on this, and add a healthy dose of karma for good measure, even reincarnation, then it's good to remember, that the Boddhisatva is the one prepared to continue in the round of suffering as many times as it takes to get every last soul through the gate of liberation, and that's courage, BIG TIME!

One cannot be blasee about it and just chalk it all up to a meaningless nothingness, that really misses the mark, and if that's what Buddhism is about, creating the walking dead, then I want none of it.

Also, this whole conversation, talking ABOUT it, is really starting to wear thin, and I've noticed that some others are starting to feel the same way about it.

"Do or do not do, there is no try."
~ Yoda,
Supreme enlightened master of the Jedi Knights.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


It's easy to # it all and fold our hands saying "my way or the highway"

In an isolated society structure the effects might be negligible but in todays "globalisation" world ...... it means "my hand is in your pie and if you dont stick a fork in it it's mine" it also means "# you if you dont have a fork"

let's do an experiment :

let's decide on a date .... say a day in August
Let's decide to get as many people as we can to not spend a dime/cent/penny on that day, I mean physical cash .... and card
Just a full twenty four hours

What would this prove ?
How far do we really dictate our reality

I've done that experiment ...... on a smaller scale ..... it's fun

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Aww yes. It would seem that way wouldn't it. When I speak of ascension I speak of it in terms of the collective, which is to say everyone.

Remember Jesus associated with saint and sinner alike. Sometimes the most seemingly unconscious people, the ones most lost in their egos are the ones who awaken first. I am a testament to this truth.

Suffering has a noble purpose. Every experience in your life can be used for your enlightenment. I suffered deeply throughout my years and did not realize that it was MY doing the whole time. Growing up in New Orleans can be rough but getting caught up in the lifestyle down here, which is almost inevitable, can be insane. This is the definition of SIN.

The literal translation of sin from its root is "To miss the mark." It is to live unskillfully, blindly. It is to create suffering for ones self and in turn suffering for others. My suffering was intense and simultaneously the direct catalyst for my awakening. I had my first Satori two years ago, at the age of 26 while sitting at the computer wondering why things in my life never worked. Then it hit me. It was literally like waking up. I remember thinking "Am I supposed to have this knowledge?!" It scared me initially since I had no idea what I had been witness to.

When asked what enlightenment was The Buddha responded "The end of suffering." This statement only points to what enlightenment is NOT. So what IS enlightenment then? The Buddha is silent in this matter and his silence implies that you shall have to find out for yourself. It's the realization of knowing the path and walking the path. The Buddha does this so that the mind cant make enlightenment into a super human accomplishment. He is also quoted in saying "Do not TRY to be the Buddha, BE the Buddha." Despite this profound teaching most Buddhist monks believe that they are not
Worthy of Buddha hood in this lifetime.

I digress, Salvation is for all. Some are simply not ready to awake yet but do not judge for we know not the reason for why things happen until they happen. " Looking back we see with great clarity and what we once perceived as obstacles now reveal themselves as blessings."

Does it not seem so simple?! Yet since the beginning of time as it is true today, some shall be able to hear and some shall only be able to listen and not hear anything.

A Flower For You.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by InthekNOwla]

[edit on 15-7-2009 by InthekNOwla]

Shoo now, you silly superstitious fools, get out of ATS, please. The world has no place for this kind of ignorance.

Originally posted by nrky
Shoo now, you silly superstitious fools, get out of ATS, please. The world has no place for this kind of ignorance.

A Flower For You. :-)

I absolutely adore reading threads like this because it affirms my belief that we are all connected and that I am not alone in this maze of life.

The problem is IMO, TIME.

Only very recently have I come to understand that Life (the way it is portrayed on this planet by our current system) is an illusion.

Time is an illusion, its created in order to define and control each and everyones life, how many times have we heard "I haven't got time to do that" how many of us have said it? I cringe at how ignorant I was when I think about this very thing.

Once one can get out of the system and not be governed by time, then one can see the whole illusion from right in front of your eyes.

From the enlightened state, the doorway to the ether, time doesn't exist, nothing exists nothing can be defined, it just is.

If only everyone could catch a glimpse of the ether life, would change overnight.

Wow I'm surprised this has made it to sooo many pages.

I posted something similar months ago and no oe hot it(pun intended)

But here you go and your past 4 pages and going.....

2 ways from my readings, and yes I have glimpsed this as well a few times. It is the Oneness, nonduality, God, whatever you semantically want to label it.

First way is to no longer identify with the mind, its thoughts, with the perciever and the perceived, No identifying with ego/me/I and eventually the nonduality becomes permanently experienced.

The other easiest/quickest way is via Maharshi's method which is to only identify with 'I' in such a way that you follow this I/me/ego down to its root where it is the automatically uprooted and destroyed leaving only permanent nonduality experienced.

Look up John Greven's book, "Oneness", anything by John Wheeler, Vasistha, Vedanta, Advaita, Tao, Self inquiry, and so on.

Funny thing is, Christian mystics call this "Union with God". Another funny thing is that Jesus is talking about just this in the Gospel of Thomas. He basically says something like, "when two are no longer two but one, then you shall know God" and "If you know yourself you will know God".

And get this, it is said in the Gospel of Thomas, that these teachings are secret teachings only for select few who are ready for it. Dude Jesus was a Taoist/Nondualist. When he said "I and the father are one" he was referring to having permanent nonduality, not that he was the only one like that, though he was unique in dual terms.

Although I must warn, in all of these Paths/Styles all pointing to this Nonduality, they all speak of years and years of preparation o get there. Some say until you transcend lust, you will not have this Union. They talk about accumulations like humbleness, love, peace, sincerity, patience, mastery over speech/thought/body, etc. I also agree with this notion because it seems like in nonduality it can be easy to justify still going back to doing stupid things, addictions, bad habits, etc.

my 2 pennies

Originally posted by nrky
Shoo now, you silly superstitious fools, get out of ATS, please. The world has no place for this kind of ignorance.

haha ....why did this feel like a drive by shoo ing lol

Tell me nrky...do you allow your ego to proceed you while you sleep or do allow someone else to watch over it while your awake ?

Have you come to play ?

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Paradoxically, I find that at time I wish to stuff my head in the proverbial sand and say, "I don't want it." Then of course I go right back to it through no conscious effort.

This enlightenment (TM) thing seems at times like the most insane jackassery anyone could get mixed up in. What the hell is wrong with me? LOL.

its not just me then that thinks this whole crazy enlightenment ride is insane!! I used to think what the hell is wrong with me several times a day, and it became quite seriously insane at times, but now I just acccept it as the norm. Im insane but its normal now lol

I think another way to get out of self, another type of meditation if you will, is to consider deeply the absurdly miraculous miracle of the life we find ourselves in, that we are actually HERE, on this planet, circling this star, in this galaxy in this universe, whereby all things are interdependant. When you really think about it, it's just crazy wild, utterly astounding, and when you come to that, the world of the illusions surrounding self and the social matrix we are conditioned to believe as real, just falls away and dissolves instantly, to be replaced by a profound sense of gratitude, and immense joy, since it cannot be taken for granted. Then what arises is the absurdity of human suffering and strife, which ya have to laugh at, no matter how horrific, because it's just so absurd in the presence of the first realization, and so we can then laugh and cry along with God, yet without a dualistic judgement, or making it wrong, since it too just is, but something which is sure to pass away under the persistent glare of reality itself.

reply to post by dominicus


This, imo, is a great insight, and a type of Bridge between East and West.

Thus, I consider the story of the Three Wise Men from the East (from the Orient), bringing their three gifts of prescious substances, to the birth of Christ, to be none other than an allegory pointing to the transmission of the teachings of Lao Tzu, Confucius, and Buddha (who were almost contemporary to one another approx 500 years prior), to Jesus, who appropriated and integrated them within the framework of his own tradition, as a Jewish Mystic, and then of course he ended up going all the way with it as a one time Bodhisatva, at the cross, and may have even transcended the duality of life and death, whether in some physical way, or simply in spirit and truth.

I think I'm the first person to point this out, this possible "Three Wise Men from the Orient" connection (forgive me my pride).

"You are the light of the world!"

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I, you."

~ JC


"God's compulsion, is our Liberation!"
~ C.S. Lewis

[edit on 15-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by nrky


When ever I see your avatar it makes me want to automatically put my hands together and close my eyes whilst lowering my head! lol I also automatically do this when I see 11:11 or XX:11 ( see now you see how crazy this is)

I really dont know much about Buddhist gestures but I seem to do that one even though Im not a Buddhist.

This is posted in another thread, but it just HAS to be included in this one, because i think we managed to point to the ahhh thingy the ______

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by purplemer

 

I kinda think this is right, but I can't fully understand it. I understand that everything that we think exists is all part of our consciousness and I can kinda see why there should be an opposite of what we think of existence (nonexistence or whatever-not really a good name for it I guess), and that is what is so interesting to me. That's why I said it was like a mirror and what we are looking at is what exists at any given moment and what we are not looking at in the hypothetical mirror...is the other and it is part of ourselves. And if it wasn't then there would never be any change and without any change nothing would exist because our consciousness has to constantly be flowing to exist. Ahhhh, I am so confusing!

No, that was really well expressed, and mind blowing.

You just referred to the Tao, as intrinsic to the true nature of consciousness, and then suggested that our individual awareness must, by it's very nature, be deeply connected, at the most fundamental level, with all being, and all non-being, via the eternal flow of yin/yang. That's TRIPPY!

And what's freakier still, is, that modern science, according to the apparently unavoidable implications of the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, and the Heisenburg's Uncertaintly Principal - is in complete accord with it as well..

You shoujld read
"The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism"
www.amazon.com...
The Holographic Universe
www.amazon.com...
And most definitely
The Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics, by Gary Zukov
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247726228&sr=1-1
And then maybe, regarding the phsyics of Consciousness, more from David Bohm, Quantum Physicist who coined the term "Holographic Universe" and "The Implicate Order", and the work of Karl Pibram, "Holographic Mind"
Finally, "The Emporer's New Mind" by Roger Penrose,
www.amazon.com...
would top it all off, and when all is said and done, you'd be back to what you just said in so few words, so spontaneously in your last post there.

No you got it just fine, and if you follow that recommended book listing, you will see not only that that's correct, but a good part of the how and why of it.

It's beginning to turn out that just being alive and aware, is like being on Acid!

Where's Terrance McKenna when you need him..?!
Hey, could someone post a video of that guy, just to liven up the thread a bit, and give some of us flashbacks? (I haven't figured out how to do that yet. Thanks!)



-----------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

I just did a little bit of reading about Karl Pribram at his Wikipedia page after you mentioned him. I have never heard of him or his theory but it sounds really amazing!

From what I am understanding is that he states that the human mind processes information in a way that would combine it into a type of Hologram.

"Holograms can correlate and store a huge amount of information".
Quoted from his Wikipedia page at

en.wikipedia.org...

That to me would seem like a type of processor, or a computer. Maybe you are onto something there. Holographic hard drives?

The final thing you need to grasp here, is that the whole damn THING is a holgraphic mind! At the end of the day, there is no separate material world, just a continual and never ending yin/yang flow of the nothingness-somethingness of being/non-being, forever NOW, where truly, "form" (materialist monism - ie matter is primary) is less a substance, that a 'quintessence' (monistic idealism - ie consciousness is primary), made up, not of stuff, per se, but of meaningful meaningless nothingness somethingness, and YOUR consciousness, is imbedded right into the core of that, in the midst of a principal of absolute uncertainty. A not knowing, that is at the same time, a knowing awareness of

in fact, consciousness is all there is, there is nothing else nor can there be

if there's a computerized hardrive of any kind, then it would be the implicate order itself, and this is what David Bohm's work as well as Pibram's points to - which would offer a type of physical reality, within which NDE's or authentic OBE's, move from the fanciful "new agey" nonsense, into the realm of the possible, probable, and actual, a type of hiearchy of light with the distinct possibility of parallel realities. But, you can never die in this schema, you could spend some time in prison say, but eventually you'll get back out again, but your most fundamental conscious awareness, if you have any to begin with, it lives WITHIN the holographic universe in a timeless spaceless way, forever NOW and it IS intrinsic to the very creative process, whereby consciousness gives rise to all being and non-being, and that duality can, in the end, be fully integrated - without any distinction, and there we are, in the midst of the ultimate unknown unknown - something that we do not and cannot know with any certaintly, but which is nevertheless always immediately and spontaneously available to our experience, and therefore to a different type of knowing, a knowing of - and then the pointer is removed, since the finger pointing at the moon, is not the moon..

So it's all ones and zero's on in the sense that the space brackets "it" with more of "it"

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

And since the "outer sphere" is nothing enveloping something, then the something that is nothing is all there is.

This is the Tao

Mere words cannot pin it down, but they can in fact point, as we've demontrated.

a knowing unknowing that is an unknown known of [BLANK]

oh to lean how to rest in that, and let mind at last finally run to the end it's run-on programming. Phew!

/ off

peace

And Namaste (bowing with hands pressed together)

----------------------------------------------

Originally posted by third_eye
there is no yin/yang

there is only yinyang

one and complete

no yin without yang, no yang without yin

where one is, one is also not is

subtle it may be .... but that's where most confusion stems from

yin/yang and yinyang

the difference is as great as the sea and the sky

Not any more (thanks for the reminder)





[edit on 16-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by franspeakfree

Time is an illusion, its created in order to define and control each and everyones life, how many times have we heard "I haven't got time to do that" how many of us have said it? I cringe at how ignorant I was when I think about this very thing.

Hi


If you get a stop watch counting up you can see how your statement that time is an illusion is correct.

As it counts up ..1..2..3..4 just give your entire awarness to the digit that is of the NOW. Give no awarness to digits that have been or are about to come up. If you do this with complete awarness of the digit that is in the NOW you see that time is an illusion and all that is is within the second of the now. The more you do this is everyday life the present becomes timeless.

Understand this concept and the rest follows

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Mr Green]

time IS NOT illusionary

it's our concept of time and our measurements of time that is illusionary
as it is part of our illusionary existence

as we exist ..... we exist in part as an individual portraying someone that has existed and known to a close circle of people on a daily basis, and we keep to that character and structure
How easy it is to break out of that ?
Just try doing something your friends and people who knows you knows "you" didnt do on a usual basis ....... wear different fashion clothes , get a new haircut, speak differently.
Thats just how flimsy our definition of reality is.

If enough of us decide, one day , that countries and borders are also illusionary, religious organisations are illusionary, standards of living depending on monetary capacity is illusionary.....

the world would continue to exist ..... only in a different way
we wont be here one day ......
the earth will just continue until the sun gobbles it up to shine for a few more billion years .....

reply to post by third_eye


Yeah, and forever it will always be, right, now, and the whole past was enfolded into now, as is the whole future via the implicate-explicate order. In short you've got now all the way up your yingyang no matter what you do, and from that perspective time is an illusion. You're right, all form passes into and out of existence, but it's still the very same existence, only in a different form, so why draw distinctions, like getting a new haircut or a ring through your nose to be different or different from what is. Ordinary mind then is the way to go. Non seeking non grasping mind.

The mind of the unborn undying Buddha