The unborn undying mind of the Buddha

reply to post by suomichris


Fair enough, thanks.

So Bodhi Dharma would mean awakened or enlightened path or way of righteousness of right view, right being and right action - something like that?

If so, then this could also be synonymous to the path of Christ as in "I am the way, the truth and the life. He who follows me shall by no means walk in darkenss, but shall have the light of life."

On the Collaborative writing thread Your Daily Haiku I added a short one some time back that seems pertinent to this OP:

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Thirty Minutes of Silence,
Old Tibetan Open's Eyes

Gong,
Student's Stir now from mind Chatter

Lama Twinkle in Eye's,
Blesses the short minutes,

Thirty Years still to pass,
They to then,
Real Silence unharressed.


Elf

Kind Regards

Elf

Some very cool info @ wikipedia on

Bodhi

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
So Bodhi Dharma would mean awakened or enlightened path or way of righteousness of right view, right being and right action - something like that?

Ya, something like that. Or maybe even "path to awakening" or "teachings of awakening."

If so, then this could also be synonymous to the path of Christ as in "I am the way, the truth and the life. He who follows me shall by no means walk in darkenss, but shall have the light of life."

I don't think so. I don't really buy into the whole "all religions teach the same truth" thing, though, so maybe that's why. There are certainly similarities in the teachings, but there are stark differences as well. I don't think the Buddha would have ever said something like that quote. He was very adamant about distancing himself as an individual from the teachings. He saw himself as just a dude who discovered something cool, and was more than happy to teach you if you were interested. If not, oh well. If anything, he probably would have said, "YOU are the way, the truth, and the life. You just haven't realized it yet, so you walk in darkness."

"You are the light of the world!"

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."

It is only a slightly different frame of reference, but, imho, it amounts to one and the same thing.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
"You are the light of the world!"

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."

It is only a slightly different frame of reference, but, imho, it amounts to one and the same thing.

Actually, I think these are pretty different, in terms of orientation. These are both outwardly focused: lighting the world, sharing the gospel. Buddhism is inherently internal, though. There's no stipulation that one go and spread the news, or, for that matter, light the world...

I certainly think they are similar, but not the same.

Much has been said on this thread about Mahamudra and Dzogen etc, and as Omega's Op is about the undying Buddha mind etc... this all relates, all of the Buddha's teachings were gradiants and paths designed to lead all other beings to his experience.

There is no other experience of the True Buddha Mind than Mahamudra.

Mahumudra when realized is the Buddha Mind, and presently within the Tibetan buddhist branch of lineages, there are teachings and trainings that have been passed on from Master to Student by word only and never written down (certain parts) , but these teachings are unbroken and have been proven and recorded historically to have been an unbroken teaching from the Disciples of Buddha themselves.

They are in fact the actual words and teachings of Shakamuni Buddha as given to his disciples who were able to actually realise what he did, and so on until this day.

The person who currently heads this lineage is still young but recieving more of these transmissions every day, the Karmapa.

His main teacher, and one prophesised by the Buddha many here talk about, to be the Next Buddha in a later lifetime is called the Kenting Tai Situpa.

The Tai Situpa is current on retreat, and as the Karmapa gains in experience and understanding, more of his "Secret" oral only teachings will be passed on, as spoken by the Buddha originally.

Really anyone who thinks after six months or a few years of staring at the clouds or reading books realizes enlightenment is slightly deluded, and this is the ego again.

Certainly you have a greater awarness, more mindfullness, drop some ego etc and get closer to that goal... but it takes much much much time in meditation, cretain teachings not available except if a Teacher deems you "fit" or capable, or ready of the teaching (as you can go mad or dangers lurk on the way for those not able to handle certain truths and experiences without a breakdown etc)....

So to be a bit Real here... realizing your own enlightenment is not bought in a 7/11 store... not bought in a weekend workshop etc..... and many many who devout their entire lives to it only get a portion of the way...

HOWEVER that is only because of the nature of our minds, and the Ego and veils built up for many mnay lifetimes to this already realized mind of ours... a cleansing and process can take place to get there for certain people in just 1 Lifetime, to clear all the subconscious crap and karma, and patterns and habits and emotionally reactive ways of acting, thinking and feeling... but it takes a lot of hard work and much much time, ability as it is so simple, but soo much is in the way of that simple realization.

So below is a quote on Maha Mudra from the worlds current most informed, authoratative and knowledable person, indeed as predicted by the last Buddha the next buddha himself! Tai Situpa

Maha Mudra Practice

Given by the 12th Kenting Tai Situpa at Palpung Sherabling, March 2007.
Transcribed by Bema Chodron


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to tell you one more time. Mahamudra practice is directly dealing with the essence of everything and everyone.

The purpose of entire practice of Dharma is to attain Buddhahood. There is no other purpose.

And the purpose of attaining Buddhahood is to assist all sentient being to attain Buddhahood. There is no other purpose.

The purpose of all sentient being to attain Buddhahood is because it is their destination.

It is their destination because it is their potential. It is their essence. And until that potential and essence is fully matured, they will not stop suffering.

Suffering does not only mean pain.

Suffering means unnecessarily going in circle, looking for something which can never be found.

So, instead of looking for something which can never be found, then one should finally come to one's sense by knowing what you are looking is not anywhere, it is inside you. It is you who you are looking for. You are not looking for anything anywhere. It is the essence of you, the potential of you that is what you are looking for.

We go up to heaven and down to hell and circle around in the entire vast limitless space for countless eons. And did we find anything up to today? We are still looking for, and searching for. Therefore the Prince Siddhartha has attained the enlightenment which is nothing more, nothing less than equal potential of everyone, and everything. I say everything because there is no everything without everyone.

www.palpung.org...

The Dalai Lama as I quoted in my first post explained one of his experiences was at a level quite low on the understanding of this above teaching, and Buddha Mind, the Tai Situpa linked above is prophecised if you know your scriptures to be next Buddha on earth in a later life time.

He has had teachings from many many great masters and dedicated this and many previous lives to getting there..... and he is now in retreat again just him and his mind, clearing it, working at it, meditating 24/7 but still would not claim to be enlightened as in the full teachings and understanding of Buddha Mind Maha Mudra.

So I am getting a bit real with all those who state they are there already, or can reach it from reading, debating, etc etc...

I have had a NDE and some very mild experiences of Bodhicitta, true Bodhicitta a very low level of emptiness massively below, not even an inch compared to a million miles what the Dalai Lama had.

At the time for a few moments the next day my EGO grabbed me a bit to till I caught it, tricking me into thinking it was there, or special, I had experienced godmind etc.... as when these experiences happen they are very overwhelming, very overpowering, so differant to "normality" and what we are used to.... but I very quickly realised the minute scale of that experience.

Lets get real here guys, we are all enlightened already, but have no illusions to the absolute massive layers of ego, karma, illusion and side alleys between you and that mind, no matter how strong your experience is. We have to work a bit to get there I am sorry, if you want to do it in one lifetime start studying Mahamudra and find a Lama teacher, maybe just maybe you might have a glimpse before you die in this lifetime.

If anyone on here thinks otherwise or that they are already there, please do contact someone like a Lama from the Tai Situpa lineage... discuss with him your experience's and I am more than sure if they match those, as taught by word of mouth from the Buddha to his disciples, you will very soon be recognised for that mind, from your knowledge of what happens, and other tests certain people are able to do to asscertain your genuiness, and soon maybe able to teach the people as mentioned in this post, as they as admitted by themselves have a long way to exoperience it properly.

There is no road to enlightenment without Humility, and as any real parctitioner knows it is bad form to discuss your actual progress and realisation, except with your Lama/Teacher.

If you are a teacher to teach, generate faith and confidence that it can be done, the dharma can make change and lead you to that goal, or help others, not form the ego point of view of "I am Enlightened", as you are so far away from any such relaistion with that motivation it is like calling a flame an ice cube.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 14-7-2009 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by suomichris


Again I have to Respectfully disagree. When Jesus spoke these words he pointed to the eternal I AM meaning the I am of all. Since we are all one anyway. "I AM, the Truth, the Way, and The Life." The Way that he refers to is his body of teachings for his teachings are to be lived not only taught. When he spoke of The Life. He was merely point to the fact that he WAS LIFE. We usually think life in terms of something we possess which is why people fear death. They see it as as lose of MY LIFE. Theirs a big difference between your LIFE and your LIFE SITUATION. To refer to a comment made by OmegaPoint, a wave can only fear its own death until it realizes that it IS water. You ARE life. This is the true meaning of the teaching. Jesus was just like the Buddha. He lived 600 years after the Buddha and I believe was deeply influenced by his teachings. They are saying the same things just in forms. Jesus was A MAN who along his path in life reached Enlightenment. He called it Salvation and he offered it to everyone who wanted it. Meaning that it is no superhuman accomplishment only ones natural state of being. It is a state of felt oneness with all that is. Why else would he teach something if he thought that no one could get it?! He wouldn't have. Similarly he spoke of the Holy Trinity (Also referenced in The Matrix....Lol). The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. My whole life I thought I knew what he was talking about. It wasn't until I was able to go beyond the words that I realized their true meanings. This teaching is pointing to the trinity of MIND, BODY, SPIRIT. The Spirit or soul being The Father or God, The Body being the The Son or God incarnate in physical form, US. and The Holy Spirit being The Mind but the true mind, beyond the ego. True Enlightenment is attained at the point of unity of all three. You must unite them, they must become one. Just because we don't don't believe something doesn't make it any less true. Its all connected. Religion, science, philosophy, all the way down to Alchemy. Most people have selective perception. Which means they only see what they want to or what adds to THEIR truth. So they pick at the message. "I believe this but I don't believe that." No offense but it seems as though you are focused on the details a little to much. Yes, sure they all have similarities and differences. They all come from different cultures, different languages, and different points in time. Yet the message at the core still shines true. Again it's the message thats important NOT the details.

A Flower For You.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by InthekNOwla]

[edit on 14-7-2009 by InthekNOwla]

Some wonderful and insightful posts in here. People each have their own ideas on what is the 'right' answer, however one man's answer may not be the answer for another. Follow your intuition as it usually steers you in the right direction.

I do not follow any one religion or path, rather I take the good from wherever I may find it and apply to my life. I try to live a life of balance, of compassion and love. I try to live in the moment instead of losing myself in the past or thinking of the future. It doesn't always work for me, but I am far more content when I do. How can one truly live if they are always elsewhere? LOL We are far more than just a physical body and I feel our energy goes on after death.

To live in the moment, take in everything around you, the tall trees swaying in a gentle summer breeze, the crashing waves of the ocean as they make their way to shore, the song of birds, good company and conversation with family and friends, a child's laughter and pure joy, the scent of a flower, colors, the beauty of nature and the profoundness of love. These are the essence of life expressing itself.

To empty your mind and think nothing at all is just existing. Relaxing on the otherhand is important and beneficial. Just my two cents.

From what I've gathered, it comes in the form of a sudden, penetrating insight, and that there can be no striving toward it, like it's some sort of goal, where to strive FOR it, is to push it away. Thus, any extensive practice or discipline as a way TO it, is, at the outset doomed to failure. Paradoxically, at the same time, peeling away all the self generated delusions which mask it, is certainly a lot of work, or maybe not.. since it's right there, like the sky which appears from parting clouds.
But really, it may be absurd to think that by sitting in meditation for many years one can attain "Buddhahood" and the Buddha never really proclaims themselves Buddha, and neither is it a person, but a way, or the real reality, right here now. There is no finding it I don't think, it must find you, or me, so perhaps all we can do is pray to recieve it, and hope for it, and keep watching and observing, and get out of the way as much as possible, and it is available to any person, not just some 30 years of meditation master practitioner, I have to disagree with that assessment, from what I've been learning about it.

In the beginner's mind, all things are possible, but in the expert's mind, nothing is possible.
~ Suzuki Roshi


[edit on 14-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by Night Star


I think you get it more than most. That thing about relaxing, and not worrying about emptying your mind? That's it right there. Natural, spontaneous, authentic, being alive, relaxed and at peace. Anything less than that is just a bunch of nonsense, and a worthless pursuit.

reply to post by Night Star


Yes, Its wonderful to know so many are starting to awaken. The process of our ascension has started. We that are temporarily more knowledgeable are here to serve as guides.

A Flower For You.

May I have a flower?

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Of course you may my friend.

A Flower For You

reply to post by InthekNOwla

Oh my gosh! Thank you!

thanks for the replies guys! Oh and...I love flowers!

Originally posted by InthekNOwla
...Its wonderful to know so many are starting to awaken. The process of our ascension has started. We that are temporarily more knowledgeable are here to serve as guides.

Who's process of ascension? Some, yes. Some, no. Some are going precisely the opposite way.

Who's "we"?

How merrily we dance around in a circle never knowing where the center is. The butterfly floats further away along with the breeze taking along with it our gaze and the circle is slowly no longer a circle and the center forever dancing with the butterfly.

~


Something of interest regarding JC and Siddhartha, they never profess to be Gods .... it's the followers and organizations that made them Gods.

Buddhahood and Godhood are entirely different, Godliness is perhaps a closer definition but that can be blasphemous to some sects.

There are many PATHS but there is ONLY ONE WAY to enlightenment. Perhaps the one thing that many are confused about is that once ONE is ENLIGHTENED one is naturally GODLIKE or start to conjure up miracles, walk on water and float in the air.

No such luck ........ awakened minds will still forget where they left their car keys.

The labels change but the essence remains the same. I believe there are many "awakened" minds in modern times too , the mind , awakened or not is still just a tool, some might get intertwined in history through fate or fortuitous destiny and many will drop in the pool of time with nary a ripple, tumbling along the bottom of the stream of life.

~t=0~

Originally posted by silent thunder
Just came across this, and I like it:

"Do you imagine the universe is agitated? Go into the desert at night and took out at the stars. This practice should answer the question. The superior person settles his mind as the universe settles the stars in the sky. By connecting his mind with the subtle origin, he calms it. Once calmed, it naturally expands, and ultimately her mind becomes as vast and immeasurable as the night sky."

=Lao Tsu, Hua Hu Ching

reply to post by OmegaPoint


In those days the pristine mind is more prevalent .... these days our experiences are corrupted by information media in digital and analog forms that experiences like the ones mentioned by Lao Tzu is very hard to come by. Close your eyes when someone mentions the "Universe" and all you will see in your mind is the CGI "illusions" and little else.

The scary thing is many believes those digital images are as true to "REALITY" as it comes.

Don't get me started on "dinosaurs"