What is consciousness in the grand scheme?

reply to post by bsbray11


Hey friend, remember, this is what you chose, and their may very well be a very longggg lineup to get here, into this vail of tears where so much is possible, so if I might I would like to suggest that you consider re-choosing it for yourself, choosing to be a fully integrated (nothing left out) free-functioning (naturally autnentic and spontaneous) human being. It's not such a bad gig really when you come to think of it. And who are you to say that you should not be who and what you are, or that the present moment configuration of the universe should not be what it is!

It wasn't all flattery when I told you how brilliant you are, because I did also say that, like me, you may just be too smart for your own good.

So go easy on yourself, and what you percieve to be a dualistic universe at odds with itself, leave all that up to God, so you can just be you, and hey, while you're at it, try to have a good time, smile, and love your neighbor, and even your enemy as yourself, since ya got nothing to lose.

I ran into someone today, who asked me for a smoke, and a gave her one, but she was so terribly sad, and on the edge of just breaking down in tears, and I missed the opportunity to comfort and console her, comisserate with her, and even take on some of her suffering to help her ease her load.

And the wicked people - they are the one's you need to remember, who are really suffering the worst, the jails are full of them.

"In so far as you did it unto the least of these, you did it unto me."

Cheers!

Rob

consciousness is a state of being

a being is just what it is ...... it's purpose is defined by what it's used for or who is using it or the one who uses it defines it

a machine is a machine whether it's on or off
if it can't be turned on , it's still a machine , it's just useless as it was made to be used, it still can be used as a foot stool if you so please

as long as you breathe and live your consciousness functions
the mind is dictated by our restrictive self programming
- I like
- I don't like
- I want
- I don't want
etc
etc

So in the event we aren't exactly experiencing "reality" as it is but only as "what we want it to be"

The trick being, to figure out how to override the programming, or try to trick the machine/program into reaching the end of its program, by differentiating the real person FROM the program.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by OmegaPoint


thanks for the bump

reply to post by third_eye


Yeah no problem. What you just described is a type of consciousness. The lowest possible level of it that is, not that there's anything neccessarily wrong with that, as it's part of being human, but it's the lowest rung on the ladder of increasing conscious awareness, the I I I me me me you you you. Actually there is a lower level still, comprised of harsh judgements and intollerances towards others, or the I'm right you're wrong distinction.

"God grant that I would seek rather to understand, than to be understood, to love than to be loved, and to comfort, than to be comforted. For it is by self forgetting that one finds. It is by forgiving that one is forgiven, and it is by dying that one awakens to eternal life."

A type or form of consciousness is slicing and dissecting the consciousness which to the Eastern mind is something incomprehensible. A hammer is a hammer, I can use something like a hammer but I can't say it is a hammer because I'm using it like a hammer.

The Eastern approach to consciousness is all encompassing ... from animals to humans ..... Buddhas , Bandits or Benefactors. The difference is in who or what the consciousness resides in. Thus we have the terms like "animal consciousness" when describing a violent person, which is different from "animal instinct"

to us in the East ..... consciousness is prevalent and whole .... it's just the character of it that dictates the person.

reply to post by cancerian42

What is consciousness in the grand scheme?

Everything, consciousness is the grand scheme.

There is nothing but consciousness.

Consciousness just exists, everything else comes forth out of it.

Our physical world is merely a manifestation of consciousness.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
reply to post by cancerian42

 

What is consciousness in the grand scheme?

Everything, consciousness is the grand scheme.

There is nothing but consciousness.

Consciousness just exists, everything else comes forth out of it.

Our physical world is merely a manifestation of consciousness.

Nothing but consciousness? I like that. I guess then the point, if there needs to be a point to all this, is to create and explore throughout our conscious experience.

reply to post by cancerian42

Nothing but consciousness? I like that. I guess then the point, if there needs to be a point to all this, is to create and explore throughout our conscious experience.

Yes, and to just be.

What is consciousness in the grand scheme?
Everything and nothing

kx

Oh jeez ~~~ I read the OP and then had to really skip over alot of the posts because it's the same old tired crystal rubbing BS IMHO....

Anyway, I feel like sharing so here goes. Without getting too new-age on you (because it's REALLY BECOMING A TURN OFF. hint hint ), I would have to say that conciousness is merely the coherent perception of our reality and our pre programmed reactions to it.

Looking at it this way, when people refer to anything out of the ordinary, they always seem to correlate it to another state of being. For example OOBES happen when we are 'asleep'. An individual will be 'dozing off' and have a revelation or vision. Someone will be having a day where they "feel odd" and see something unusual.

That being said, I feel that conciousness is a word we use out of our collective conformity to explain how we feel when we're in our day to day robotic mode.

Think of it in this sense. Do you have any unconcious mannerisms? I do many things without being aware of it and they are usually more true of my nature than things I do when behaving conciously. For example, there is a particular sound I make when I'm happy (or sometimes bored) that I usually don't even realize until someone points it out to me. It's a strange throat curl, like a purr I guess. Anyway, it's a poor example but very indicative of my personality. Another one would be gestures towards others, do you maybe reach over to a loved one and touch them or do some other affectionate type thing without being fully concious of it? That's my point. I hope it makes sense. Just think about the things you do without thinking. Then take a look at those actions in comparison to the pre-meditated ones. You can get a very intriguing perspective of your own behaviors by taking a step away. It will answer alot of the questions about "consciousness".

Originally posted by jackieps1975
Without getting too new-age on you (because it's REALLY BECOMING A TURN OFF. hint hint

)

Here's a hint for you: what you are referring to as "new age" is likely knowledge that is hundreds or even thousands of years old, and is still practiced to this day all over the world, but particularly in the far East. People dedicate the majority of their waking hours in sitting meditation, not because they are dull and boring, but because they know something you don't. And I bet you $100 you would not have the patience to do what they do for even a week, with your polluted Western mind, conditioned for instant gratification. What do you think you would begin with, sitting alone with your mind? To what would you direct it first?

I would have to say that conciousness is merely the coherent perception of our reality and our pre programmed reactions to it.

You have offered a definition of the word "consciousness" like I might read in a dictionary, but I have two questions:

1) What is consciousness physically made from, or what does it physically arise from? Ie, how do you create it?

2) If consciousness arises from pre-programmed responses, then who or what "programmed" them in the first place if not an aspect of our consciousness? Can you not make conscious decisions that alter your behavior?


There are forms of therapy and self-inspection (leading to greater awareness) that work by drawing attention to the kinds of unconscious activities you describe. Throughout the day I am constantly introspective about what I am doing at any given moment in time and why I am doing it. This is very literally increased awareness.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by bsbray11]

reply to post by purplemer

I kinda think this is right, but I can't fully understand it. I understand that everything that we think exists is all part of our consciousness and I can kinda see why there should be an opposite of what we think of existence (nonexistence or whatever-not really a good name for it I guess), and that is what is so interesting to me. That's why I said it was like a mirror and what we are looking at is what exists at any given moment and what we are not looking at in the hypothetical mirror...is the other and it is part of ourselves. And if it wasn't then there would never be any change and without any change nothing would exist because our consciousness has to constantly be flowing to exist. Ahhhh, I am so confusing!

Originally posted by jackieps1975
I feel that consciousness is a word we use out of our collective conformity to explain how we feel when we're in our day to day robotic mode.

What do you mean by day to day robotic mode? I used the word consciousness to mean our awareness, if we are not consciously aware of it then I did not mean it. I wasn't really talking about mannerisms because that isn't really what I would call part of your consciousness or awareness unless you actually do realize it and then it's just another part of the puzzle of existence. However, about the subconscious, unconscious, and superconscious (forgive me if I forgot any) unless you realize and bring these things to the conscious part of the mind they are nonexistent.

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by purplemer

 

I kinda think this is right, but I can't fully understand it. I understand that everything that we think exists is all part of our consciousness and I can kinda see why there should be an opposite of what we think of existence (nonexistence or whatever-not really a good name for it I guess), and that is what is so interesting to me. That's why I said it was like a mirror and what we are looking at is what exists at any given moment and what we are not looking at in the hypothetical mirror...is the other and it is part of ourselves. And if it wasn't then there would never be any change and without any change nothing would exist because our consciousness has to constantly be flowing to exist. Ahhhh, I am so confusing!

No, that was really well expressed, and mind blowing.

You just referred to the Tao, as intrinsic to the true nature of consciousness, and then suggested that our individual awareness must, by it's very nature, be deeply connected, at the most fundamental level, with all being, and all non-being, via the eternal flow of yin/yang. That's TRIPPY!

And what's freakier still, is, that modern science, according to the apparently unavoidable implications of the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, and the Heisenburg's Uncertaintly Principal - is in complete accord with it as well..

You shoujld read
"The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism"
www.amazon.com...
The Holographic Universe
www.amazon.com...
And most definitely
The Dancing Wu Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics, by Gary Zukov
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247726228&sr=1-1
And then maybe, regarding the phsyics of Consciousness, more from David Bohm, Quantum Physicist who coined the term "Holographic Universe" and "The Implicate Order", and the work of Karl Pibram, "Holographic Mind"
Finally, "The Emporer's New Mind" by Roger Penrose,
www.amazon.com...
would top it all off, and when all is said and done, you'd be back to what you just said in so few words, so spontaneously in your last post there.

No you got it just fine, and if you follow that recommended book listing, you will see not only that that's correct, but a good part of the how and why of it.

It's beginning to turn out that just being alive and aware, is like being on Acid!

Where's Terrance McKenna when you need him..?!
Hey, could someone post a video of that guy, just to liven up the thread a bit, and give some of us flashbacks? (I haven't figured out how to do that yet. Thanks!)



[edit on 16-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by cancerian42


Wow, that just triggered a mind-blow in myself as well.

If you like theoretical physics (IF, lol), then you should check out Dr. William Tiller of MIT. He is bringing consciousness into physics. And it is the grand-daddy of all energies and all matter according to the good doctor. And remember this is a tenured MIT professor!


He says there are TWO 3D realms, joined together in 9D space, very similar to your existence and non-existence that influence each other. The dividing line between them is the speed of light. And on the "other side" of the speed of light, time does not move but is a position. Electrons exist on this side of the speed of light, and "magnons" (as-of-yet undiscovered particles responsible for magnetism) are on the other side, and their influence on each other through a 9D-"delta" particle is where Maxwell's equation comes from.

I can't do his work justice, especially because I don't fully understand it, you just have to read it, but if physics isn't your thing then it's whatever. But if you DO have that interest, there is none better imo. He's a true visionary and pioneer. Kudos to MIT for getting something right, and kudos to you, cancerian, for linking this up for me.

reply to post by bsbray11


Yeah you're technically much much smarter than I am. I tend to rely solely on my instinct or "ah ha" moment, to know if something's right or not, and he just hit that one bang on there, so simply, and so clearly.

To "get this" is like a head trip isn't it? And it feel GOOD!

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

I just did a little bit of reading about Karl Pribram at his Wikipedia page after you mentioned him. I have never heard of him or his theory but it sounds really amazing!

From what I am understanding is that he states that the human mind processes information in a way that would combine it into a type of Hologram.

"Holograms can correlate and store a huge amount of information".
Quoted from his Wikipedia page at

en.wikipedia.org...

That to me would seem like a type of processor, or a computer. Maybe you are onto something there. Holographic hard drives?

The final thing you need to grasp here, is that the whole damn THING is a holgraphic mind! At the end of the day, there is no separate material world, just a continual and never ending yin/yang flow of the nothingness-somethingness of being/non-being, forever NOW, where truly, "form" (materialist monism) is less a substance, that a 'quintessence', made up, not of stuff, per se, but of meaningful meaningless nothingness somethingness, and YOUR consciousness, is imbedded right into the core of that, in the midst of a principal of absolute uncertainty. A not knowing, that is at the same time, a knowing awareness of

in fact, consciousness is all there is, there is nothing else nor can there be

if there's a computerized hardrive of any kind, then it would be the implicate order itself, and this is what David Bohm's work as well as Pibram's points to - which would offer a type of physical reality, within which NDE's or authentic OBE's, move from the fanciful "new agey" nonsense, into the realm of the possible, probable, and actual, a type of hiearchy of light with the distinct possibility of parallel realities. But, you can never die in this schema, you could spend some time in prison say, but eventually you'll get back out again, but your most fundamental conscious awareness, if you have any to begin with, it lives WITHIN the holographic universe in a timeless spaceless way, forever NOW and it IS intrinsic to the very creative process, whereby consciousness gives rise to all being and non-being, and that duality can, in the end, be fully integrated - without any distinction, and there we are, in the midst of the ultimate unknown unknown - something that we do not and cannot know with any certaintly, but which is nevertheless always immediately and spontaneously available to our experience, and therefore to a different type of knowing, a knowing of - and then the pointer is removed, since the finger pointing at the moon, is not the moon..

So it's all ones and zero's on in the sense that the space brackets "it" with more of "it"

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

And since the "outer sphere" is nothing enveloping something, then the something that is nothing is all there is.

This is the Tao

Mere words cannot pin it down, but they can in fact point, as we've demontrated.

a knowing unknowing that is an unknown known of [BLANK]

oh to lean how to rest in that, and let mind at last finally run to the end it's run-on programming. Phew!

/ off

peace

[edit on 16-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

My mother managed to convince me to take electronics engineering classes at the local community college by offering to pay for them. That's the only reason I know anything about any of this. They force-fed it to me. And I hated most of it because I am not the engineer type, I stuck out like a sore thumb in those classes. And I never did my work. I guess I am a bum, lol. But there is nothing like going to a physics class after eating some kind of fungus, I can tell you that. I don't think anyone was as excited as I was that day.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by bsbray11]

there is no yin/yang

there is only yinyang

one and complete

no yin without yang, no yang without yin

where one is, one is also not is

subtle it may be .... but that's where most confusion stems from

yin/yang and yinyang

the difference is as great as the sea and the sky