Iran finds US-backed MKO fingermarks in riots

Originally posted by milesp
Not buying it!

The vanguard of these protests are college students and women. They have plenty of reasons to overthrow their ayatollah!

And of course state tv is going to blame this on the US.

Few realize just how thoroughly they have been inculcated into self-loathing by enemies of the West so that propaganda from even those they perceive as enemies passes freely into forming their worldviews. My sense is that the will more readily accept it from the enemies' mouths than from those they do not see as fundamental adversaries.

It is, I suppose, subtle but glaringly obvious yet also difficult to form into words. It is brilliant. I will give it that. A kind psyop magnum opus, if you will.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Few realize just how thoroughly they have been inculcated into self-loathing by enemies of the West so that propaganda from even those they perceive as enemies passes freely into forming their worldviews. My sense is that the will more readily accept it from the enemies' mouths than from those they do not see as fundamental adversaries.

This is so obvious - except to the blind.

This is the stomping ground for those seeking conspiracies and disinformation campaigns.

They don't realize they are the victims of a tremendously successful campaign to deflect responsibility from their own enemies and to blame each other.

If you blow them up, they don't say "We were attacked" instead they start pointing fingers at each other.

Somewhere someone is reading this and having a good laugh.


Mike

Originally posted by MegaCurious
According to the security officials, the arrested members had confessed that they were extensively trained in Iraq's camp Ashraf to create post-election mayhem in the country.

What a load of bunk.

Typical Iran leadership trying to find a scapegoat for their own problems.

Their stories are running thin ....

[edit on 6/26/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by mmiichael
This is so obvious - except to the blind.

This is the stomping ground for those seeking conspiracies and disinformation campaigns.

I do not wish to imply every account should be accepted outright from any side, official or not. There are in fact many hidden agendas but this is wheels within wheels within ... stuff. Look past the mentative "fast food" as there is always someone trying offer up a quick answer to anyone hungry enough.


[edit on 6/26/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by tristar


I used to think the BBC was impartial. They're not anymore. BBC is definitely involved in anti Iran propaganda. All you have to do is tune into BBC radio 4 when they're running a piece on Iran (not talking about news bulletins)

Yesterday I heard them run a piece which I could not do justice by explaining it well enough, at how shocked I was at the childish insulting way the BBC was describing Amadinejad's physical appearance, trying to paint him as an untrustworthy rat because "his eyes are too close together"

Then they went on to say that the BBC has never conducted propaganda against Iran. As if they would admit it! They also shoot down Iranian claims about CIA interference. And I suppose the BBC would know about what the CIA have been up to, how exactly?

I have to say, this topic here is worth nothing as actual news, because the news source is Iranian. But it's funny how we don't hold the same standard about our own news sources. Ours don't lie, but their's do? No I don't think so.

There is no such thing as impartial news sources anymore. Or if there are, they are not heard, they are not mainstream. MSM, even the hallowed BBC are influenced by corporate and governmental pressures.

I'm glad the last couple of pages have talked more common sense on this issue. One or two posts were excellent, and really describes how many people on here have been taken in by islamic regime propaganda.

These people believe the US govt. is the ultimate enemy, so any more realistic enemies of the US must always speak the truth. It's what I would call being blatently delusional as that assumption would mean the regime never ever lies. They would even lie about the colour of the sky if it was convenient for them to.

I've found this regime is always lying. It's not like the lies are consistent. They will change their lie to another one and then another, so how can anyone sane take them seriously!

Originally posted by Lazyninja
reply to post by tristar

 

I used to think the BBC was impartial. They're not anymore. BBC is definitely involved in anti Iran propaganda. All you have to do is tune into BBC radio 4 when they're running a piece on Iran (not talking about news bulletins)

Yesterday I heard them run a piece which I could not do justice by explaining it well enough, at how shocked I was at the childish insulting way the BBC was describing Amadinejad's physical appearance, trying to paint him as an untrustworthy rat because "his eyes are too close together"

Then they went on to say that the BBC has never conducted propaganda against Iran. As if they would admit it! They also shoot down Iranian claims about CIA interference. And I suppose the BBC would know about what the CIA have been up to, how exactly?

I have to say, this topic here is worth nothing as actual news, because the news source is Iranian. But it's funny how we don't hold the same standard about our own news sources. Ours don't lie, but their's do? No I don't think so.

There is no such thing as impartial news sources anymore. Or if there are, they are not heard, they are not mainstream. MSM, even the hallowed BBC are influenced by corporate and governmental pressures.

That's just commonplace harmless propaganda, and probably an attempt at satire, and does not change the fact that innocent Iranian's are getting massacred.

Just to ask a question: do you not agree that his eyes are close together? So where did they lie?

Anyway his eyes are not the issue, shame on BBC4 for wasting time on this garbage and not focussing on the real issue of Iranian people struggling against their oppressors who try to kill them. It began with people just wanting their votes counted, and has become a revolution because of the regime's unreasonable attitudes, that even legitimize shooting street protestors and women getting out of cars or going shopping.

To say Ahmadinejad is untrustworthy would be an accurate observation. Even Iranian's hate him. Anyhow silly BBC 4 radio, Ahmadinejad is just the puppet of the supreme leader - Khamenei. The people of Iran shout "death to Khamenei" from rooftops whilst snipers pick them off. That's how much the Iranian people hate him, they are willing to die to show their disgust for him.

The bigger picture is that the BBC often fall for regime propaganda, although to a lesser extent more recently.

BBC correspondants are stuck in their offices in Tehran, they can't report anything that's going on. They just report what the regime says has happened, which is often far from the truth.

Anyway BBC4 radio presenters are more likely to miss out the whole issue due to ignorance rather than compliantly providing propaganda. Maybe not lying purposely, but just a misinterpretation of the facts.

If you don't like BBC4 you can get your information on Iran from somewhere else IMO

Sometimes when you're discussing a despicable regime such as the one in Iran without foreign media there it's difficult to accept these acts, unless you previously already knew that these atrocities were already commonplace but on a much smaller scale of oppression.

And a mixture of western ignorance and over-the-top reporting on the radio can make it seem like we are demonising the regime, when in fact we may even be underestimating the seriousness of the situation.

Khamenei has even broken his own Islamic laws, which were oppressive enough to begin with. This regime is as despicable as the nazis. Whilst we should refrain from pointless and irrelevant topics such as the appearance of Ahmadinejad, we should also not let that cloud our judgements about these people.

They don't even need western propaganda to make us see how vicious and despicable they are, they manage it on their own by their actions.

My Iranian friends have said too many people in the west live in ignorance about Iran. The BBC often report certain bits of iranian state tv propaganda without realising it. And they also say that this regime is worse than the nazis.

So to summarise: we wouldn't even have to use propaganda if we wanted to make the western world despise this regime, they manage it all on their own by killing students with axes, and indiscriminate shootings. They even stole the bodies from hospitals and are charging families to receive the bodies back. It's incredible how extreme this regime can be.

Iranian cleric says rioters should be executed: www.abovetopsecret.com...

That there is admission of guilt from the ayatollah regime thugs of how brutal their beliefs are. Even beyond Islamic law, they are ruthless murderers.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by john124]

[edit on 27-6-2009 by john124]

[edit on 27-6-2009 by john124]

[edit on 27-6-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124


Depending upon the interests, whenever there is some shift, there are those that wish to prevent it and those that see it as an opportunity. Each will attempt to play their hand to that interest the best the are able. The Supreme Leader obviously wishes to retain control and there are those drooling at the prospect of substantial resource profits. If the Iranian people are sowing the seeds of revolution internally, the latter would want to push the unstable situation in their favor if it enables access.

Originally posted by john124
many people on here have been taken in by islamic regime propaganda.

These people believe the US govt. is the ultimate enemy, so any more realistic enemies of the US must always speak the truth. It's what I would call being blatently delusional as that assumption would mean the regime never ever lies. They would even lie about the colour of the sky if it was convenient for them to.

I've found this regime is always lying. It's not like the lies are consistent. They will change their lie to another one and then another, so how can anyone sane take them seriously!

I'm not American, have lived in many countries, but have become more sympathetic to the US since joining this forum.

The US has lying thieving politicians who abuse their trust. Other countries I know are far worse.

Due to the highmindnedness tradition of the US, there are many millions who watch what their government does and openly criticize it. This, sadly, is not the case worldwide.

Friends from the Middle East openly confess their governments were exploitive and abusive to their own constituents at every opportunity.
Usually the reason they left, along with economic hardship.

I'm particularly troubled when I see so many Americans respond by default to accusations of US illicit connivances from these places.

Lists of American foreign policy blunders and deceitful politicians are trotted out.

News to those not aware of the histories of other countries. This is pretty normal.

The people of the Middle East are unfortunately caught in a time warp. Modern technology and knowledge is available for them. Most still suffer under regimes with little concern for the welfare of their people. Tribalistic conflicts by despotic monarchies and theocracies are the status quo.
The tremendous amount of resource wealth in the region has served to escalate the scale of all this.

The need to find explanations of stagnating economies is paramount. Deflection from corruption is the goal. Disinformation campaigns and mass deception are not an occasional tactics, they are a way of live.


Mike




[edit on 27-6-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by milesp


The reason they faked the picture is simple they have to buy the rights to pictures.In the case of pictures coming out of Iran they just cant publish it without consent of the owner. So in this instance they crop a photo they already own to go with the article. Its not a conspiracy they would have loved to be able to use the photos on the web but legally they cant. Journalists are unable to get pictures out right now so in order to go to print they re crop a photo.

Not really a conspiracy press does it all the time especially newspapers!

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by john124
many people on here have been taken in by islamic regime propaganda.

These people believe the US govt. is the ultimate enemy, so any more realistic enemies of the US must always speak the truth. It's what I would call being blatently delusional as that assumption would mean the regime never ever lies. They would even lie about the colour of the sky if it was convenient for them to.

I've found this regime is always lying. It's not like the lies are consistent. They will change their lie to another one and then another, so how can anyone sane take them seriously!

I'm not American, have lived in many countries, but have become more sympathetic to the US since joining this forum.

The US has lying thieving politicians who abuse their trust. Other countries I know are far worse.

Due to the highmindnedness tradition of the US, there are many millions who watch what their government does and openly criticize it. This, sadly, is not the case worldwide.

I have many friends originally from the Middle East who openly confess their governments were exploitive and abusive to their own constituents at every opportunity.

I'm particularly troubled when I see so many Americans respond by default to any finger pointing accusation of US connivances from these places.

Lists of American foreign policy blunders and deceitful politicians are trotted out.

Well news to those not aware of the histories of other countries. This is pretty normal.

The people of the Middle East are unfortunately caught in a time warp. Modern technology and knowledge is available for them. Most still suffer under regimes with little concern for the welfare of their people. Advanced tribalistic warfare by despotic monarchies and theocracies are the status quo. Disinformation and mass deception are not an occasional tactics, they are a way of live.

Some reading between the lines required here.

Mike

I certainly agree and well put. It's difficult for to understand without trying to put ourselves into an Iranian's shoes as their way of life is controlled in so many ways by the regime that we could never imagine.

Disinformation and preventing the masses from hearing any other point of view apart from what the regime say is definitely the norm there.

When people talk of western propaganda they have no idea that in Iran propaganda is so severe that they block BBC persia signals, shut down rival newspapers, block internet sites, and report very far from the truth on their state controlled tv. They don't arrest rival news services journalist in the west!!!

My Iranian friends put it this way very similar: this regime is as brutal & more barbaric than 10th century europe. Instead of swords to wield they have an army of loyal revolutionary guards with which to carry out any order given by the supreme leader, are willing to die for him and kill anyone for him. Remind you of anyone - nazis! The young people are interested in western lifestyles, pop music etc, want to be free and so want khamenei out now. The regime attempts to block the internet, but the young people are resourceful and find ways round it.

The regime could not have kept them completely isolated from western lifestyles, as that would have incited a revolution years ago, so the regime let certain things pass recently such as women not having to wear veils in public. So these people who were born after the 1979 islamic revolution now are all old enough to rebel on their own accord, and it was inevitable, the sham election was a spark in the discontent that has been steadily growing for a while now.

reply to post by john124

That's just commonplace harmless propaganda, and probably an attempt at satire, and does not change the fact that innocent Iranian's are getting massacred.

No, they are far too selective in their reporting to be impartial, and it was not satire. They dropped the Mugabe issue like a hot potato. And there is plenty of issues which the BBC just does not touch because it would annoy the American government. That kind of reporting, in my opinion has crossed the line from being merely selective to being propaganda.

Constantly bombarding us with the Iran issue, outside of the normal bulletins. Because people are interested in hearing about one world issue when there are many different issues to report on? They get complaints about that all the time, and they always deny giving a stupid amount of exposure to a subject.

My issue here isn't about how bad the Iranian regime is or isn't. My issue here is with an organization which claims impartiality having a clear agenda. When you report only on one subject, that is an agenda.

The Beeb started this whole thing with the election, kindly informing us silly people that it was a complete fraud. Notice how they didn't do the same thing when Bush was elected and then re-elected four years later. Some countries you just gotta be nice to, whether you like it or not I guess.

Anyhow, thanks to the joy of the internet, the Beebs propaganda was all over Iran's internet cafes (til the site got blocked) people got pissed, riots ensued, blah blah. We know the rest. Now I just have a real hard time figuring out how much of this was orchestrated and how much was already there in the hearts of the people, and I just cannot trust our media to tell me that.

We have ABC news reporting that in 2007 Bush signed a non lethal removal order of Ahmedinejad by the CIA, by method of political and economic destabilization. I don't have any reason anymore to say that the BBC wasn't involved in that. It is just the British equivelant of CNN nowdays.

Again I stress, I'm extremely ignorant of the situation in Iran. It wont do any good telling me how evil their government is, and how reliable the sources are. My current beef is with the BBC, which in my mind is a totally separate issue.

reply to post by Lazyninja
The BBC, wow what a mind bending organisation. They ram it down your throat until you are mind controlled. From memory it was all South Africa, then moved to Iraq 1, then Bosnia (demonising serbs), then Israel, then Iraq2, now Iran. There's also a constant put down of anything Russian, if a Russian manufactured plane crashes it's plastered everywhere about being Russian made, if a western plane crashes it's a plane crash. Trouble is they know they've been getting nowhere in undermining Russia and infact the tables have turned.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


Yes, exactly what I was trying to articulate and you've achieved far better in fewer words.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
reply to post by john124

 

That's just commonplace harmless propaganda, and probably an attempt at satire, and does not change the fact that innocent Iranian's are getting massacred.

No, they are far too selective in their reporting to be impartial, and it was not satire. They dropped the Mugabe issue like a hot potato. And there is plenty of issues which the BBC just does not touch because it would annoy the American government. That kind of reporting, in my opinion has crossed the line from being merely selective to being propaganda.

Constantly bombarding us with the Iran issue, outside of the normal bulletins. Because people are interested in hearing about one world issue when there are many different issues to report on? They get complaints about that all the time, and they always deny giving a stupid amount of exposure to a subject.

My issue here isn't about how bad the Iranian regime is or isn't. My issue here is with an organization which claims impartiality having a clear agenda. When you report only on one subject, that is an agenda.

The Beeb started this whole thing with the election, kindly informing us silly people that it was a complete fraud. Notice how they didn't do the same thing when Bush was elected and then re-elected four years later. Some countries you just gotta be nice to, whether you like it or not I guess.

Anyhow, thanks to the joy of the internet, the Beebs propaganda was all over Iran's internet cafes (til the site got blocked) people got pissed, riots ensued, blah blah. We know the rest. Now I just have a real hard time figuring out how much of this was orchestrated and how much was already there in the hearts of the people, and I just cannot trust our media to tell me that.

We have ABC news reporting that in 2007 Bush signed a non lethal removal order of Ahmedinejad by the CIA, by method of political and economic destabilization. I don't have any reason anymore to say that the BBC wasn't involved in that. It is just the British equivelant of CNN nowdays.

Again I stress, I'm extremely ignorant of the situation in Iran. It wont do any good telling me how evil their government is, and how reliable the sources are. My current beef is with the BBC, which in my mind is a totally separate issue.

OK I understand your issues, but you must remember the situation in Iran has changed from stability to a revolution in 2 weeks. It is definitely news worthy and plenty do discuss. You can't expect the news to talk about everything, they just don't have the time.

Like I previously suggested if you find the BBC going out of their way to force ideas down your throat, then avoid the BBC. I myself have issues with the way they have handled the Iran news stories, as I said on my last post to you, so I also avoid them. I do try and watch newsnight whenever possible, but with journalist restrictions over there they just dont have anything to tell us that's useful. The internet is the best source of information for Iran, from alternate sites that people link to from twitter, I'll post some of them in another message after this.

So my advise, find another radio station, or channel 4 news is usually better than the BBC.

greenrevolutioniran.blogspot.com...

www.flickr.com...

www.flickr.com...

OK people debunk these if you still think Iran has no protests, and can you also not see the anger of the people? Why would the west have to instigate these protests. Look at them with an open mind, and it will be apparent that this is an internal crisis, nothing to do with the west.

Originally posted by john124
OK people debunk these if you still think Iran has no protests, and can you also not see the anger of the people? Why would the west have to instigate these protests. Look at them with an open mind, and it will be apparent that this is an internal crisis, nothing to do with the west.

Iranians are protesting and good for them.

Unfortunately this is a revolt of the educated class, students and professionals. Pretty much confined to the more affluent North Tehran.

Significantly other parts of the country, other classes and institutions are not joining in in numbers. No walkouts, no workers strikes, etc.

So the Iranian intelligence is given a golden opportunity to isolate and identify those they will class as troublemakers.

Unfortunate the momentum has not spread. Riots will continue, but there is no indication of a mass uprising by the population at large.

So Tiananmen Square and not the Russian Revolution, for now.

The seeds have been planted, We'll see if they grow.

A not to those unaware:

Ahmadinejad looks like the bad guy by Western interpretations. In fact he stands against the corruption of the Ayatollahs and preserver of the Islamic Revolution which he thinks they've betrayed.

I don't like him and think he's delusional. But to 70% of the Iranian population he's some kind of savior. Those protesting against him are considered traitors.

Politics aren't as simple as many like to believe.


Mike

Hugo Chavez. According to the more entitled of the country from which he hails he was going to loose the election. Every forum said it so it must have been true. Only thing is that those people who could post. They were by far and away the minority. The majority wanted some form of respect and their country back. We know how it turned out.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was very likely winning by the margin quoted. Then a minority tried to turn it over to their benefit. A more privileged minority? They have bought what they are getting hook line and sinker. They will be drug from their houses and beaten and killed. No bravado for the foolish anymore it appears. If they thought the good ole USA was gonna save them then they should have referred themselves to history. Tiananmen square, Iraqi Kurds, etc.. You'll be left staring down heavy armament with sticks and stones.

I'm sure none of the rest of the country believes in the reasons for the revolution and are in full support of these kids. Cough (rolls eyes).



[edit on 28-6-2009 by Apollumi]

This post got over 50 stars??

Originally posted by milesp
Not buying it!

The vanguard of these protests are college students and women. They have plenty of reasons to overthrow their ayatollah!

And of course state tv is going to blame this on the US.

I can only assume that the people who starred it are similarly brainwashed.

We know the US has been trying to destabilise Iran since Bush's second term, and you can see the CIA fingerprints all over this one. It's almost a re-run (or, if you will, a re-imagining of the overthrow of Mossadegh.

Of course, one crucial difference is that when the US originally subverted democracy in Iran (ushering in the Shah with his US-trained and -equipped death squads, the SAVAK), Iran was much more democratic than it is now.

A couple of decades of US intervention turned Iran from a democracy into a repressive theocracy.

Clearly the people who starred this miserable post have no grasp of history. Not a surprise.

Originally posted by Apollumi
If they thought the good ole USA was gonna save them then they should have referred themselves to history. Tiananmen square, Iraqi Kurds, etc.. You'll be left staring down heavy armament with sticks and stones.

Absolutely.

I'm sure none of the rest of the country believes in the reasons for the revolution and are in full support of these kids. Cough (rolls eyes).

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

The trouble with Iran is that it's NOT a democracy. Theologically incorrect candidates cannot stand for election: neither can women (although bless their little hearts, they can trot out and vote for a male theocratic candidate).

These facts tend to undercut the notion that, suddenly, the electoral process is corrupt.

For the US to publicise these facts would actually weaken their case, which is based on Ahmedinejad being corrupt. If the whole system were revealed as fundamentally flawed, the ultimate winner would always be invalid.

And of course the reality is that there are a lot of people who'd like a more secular life. Well, the US got rid of democracy in Iran more than fifty years ago, and the Ayatollahs became powerful because the Shah's secret police repressed political activity so effectively that it was driven into the mosques. That put the mullahs in the driving seat, and made sure that the next government would be theocratic.