Iran finds US-backed MKO fingermarks in riots

reply to post by devareous


Thanks for that.

America has been the most powerful country on earth since the end of the cold war 1990. China has now risen to challenge that and we are in what is known as a multi-polar world - Europe, America, China, India in that order. With China to supercede America totally within 5 years.

So your country was the dominant for all of - about 15 years - which is fantastic - considering China was for about 4,000 years, Rome for a thousand, etc, etc = Even Turkey rile the world for longer than you guys - I am sure as hell more appreciative of the modern mathematics gifted to us by the Iranians - including numbers - than your poxy television screen which was invented in the UK - who also had the greatest empire on earth EVER - considerably better than your 15 years - and were actually LIKED ! Imagine that ...

But no seriously thanks for the post - did you know that you can install a spell checker in your browser ?

reply to post by audas


hehe ya im hooked on phonics,but languges is ever evolving mabey one day there will be a much more consise way to comunicate where my phonical impediments arnt a issue.
but i would also like to say this last 15 years has been very stimulating,just look how well we are all connected,not much was seen of tehniman square in chine, that isnt the case now.It also took 250+years to build america,and im ok with whoever wants to be the new world leader,i even like headdress's, and foot binding.We could go fuedal system liek china in the past mabey a great emporer will come and kill off the competition and unite the land!!reminds me of dynasty warriors.
Communism,"ya mom im done with the democracy plate,can u pass me the communism" , "sure son,son"
My spelling realy dosent hemper the information inparted or you wouldnt have replyd, so i have communicated succesfully!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I see, so even though it is actually a fact that the WMD that Saddam used agaisnt the Kurds were supplied by the Germans, it is still ok to bash and blame the U.S. for what Germany did?...

Bash? Just stating facts. AMerica gave the go ahead for the Germans and the French to supply the various equipments necessary.

Because the U.S. didn't start a war with the Germans for them supplying Saddam's regime during the 80s, it doesn't mean it was the fault of the U.S.

In fact they did nothing, not even a slight diplomatic nudge - because they wanted Saddam to have those weapons because they feared an Iranian victory.

You are too naive to think your made up excuse gives a right to keep on blaming the U.S. for somehting the Germans did.

Your naivity has been laid bare. I give noe excuses for anything - somple fact is America knew what was going on and gave permission.

Anyway, what I was trying to point out is that despite some people, and even Americans in the Left claiming the U.S. is behind every problem in the world, the fact is that this is not true, and what the Iranians are doing is a choice which the IRANIANS are making...

Ahem, you like to believe they are responsible for none, despite facts to the contrary.

reply to post by rogue1

'
Bash? Just stating facts. America gave the go ahead for the Germans and the French to supply the various equipments necessary.'

That statement is incorrect. The French and Germans did this for their own monetary gain and without our blessing or encouragement. In fact these two countries supplied BOTH side in the Iran/Iraq war!

Zindo

Originally posted by audas

Im not sure of the purpose of this response - the Gulag Archipelago is one of the greatest works ever written - I doubt very much you have read it - either way there is no doubt they were horrendous, as were the mass starvations in the Ukraine - however these of these human tragedies comes close to the maelstrom of US global genocide - so why post it ?

You would be surprised what I know and have read....

Please don't make uneducated "Assumptions" Wearing that vale of ignorance doesn't look good on you.

Originally posted by rogue1

Bash? Just stating facts. AMerica gave the go ahead for the Germans and the French to supply the various equipments necessary.

You are not stating any facts, you are just twisting facts, and even lying through your teeth. The Germans, and the French, alongside other western countries do whatever they want. The U.S, is not to blame for what other countries do.

Originally posted by rogue1
In fact they did nothing, not even a slight diplomatic nudge - because they wanted Saddam to have those weapons because they feared an Iranian victory.

And what did you do?... Nothing so you are to blame for the Germans, and the French supplying Iraq, and Iran.....

The French gave the Israelis their nuclear secrets, and helped them build the Israeli nuclear bombs, yet people like you have been claiming it was the U.S. when this is not true.

Back in 2005 or maybe even 2006 I reported, and gave the statements of French officials stating that it was time for them to supply with nuclear weapons other Middle Eastern countries, enemies of Israel, and the French themselves were the ones who gave israel their nuclear weapons.... yet the LEFT, and even brainwashed Europeans, alongside many people who hate the west, and the U.S. have been lying by stating it was the U.S. who armed Israel.

Originally posted by rogue1
Your naivity has been laid bare. I give noe excuses for anything - somple fact is America knew what was going on and gave permission.

Quite the contrary. You can try to continue to give excuses, but you are wrong...

Originally posted by rogue1
Ahem, you like to believe they are responsible for none, despite facts to the contrary.

BS, I never stated that, but even after being shown proof that contradicts your hatred towards the U.S. on the fact that it was mainly GERMANY who supplied Saddam's regime, and GERMANY gave Saddam's regime the mustard gas and other chemical weapons which Saddam used against the Kurds, yet you keep claiming it was all the fault of the U.S.

You, and some others have been laid bare for other member to see that you only hate the U.S., nomatter who is, or was in power.

You people are so delluded thinking that by lying, and spreading nothing more than lies, and hatred your ideology is going to be accepted...



[edit on 22-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by audas

The reality is that the US has actually been overtly and covertly involved in WELL over 170 foreign engagements since the end of the second world war - Chalmers Johnson - "Nemesis" and "Blow Back".

True numbers would be far above 30 million - there are currently 5 million missing in Iraq - no casualties are recorded for non servicemen in the US military and 70% of all personell are non military - you don't even count your own dead - what sort of country are you ?

The point is - THE USSR was never claiming the kind of benevolent status the US does - the hypocracy and underhandedness of the US slaughter is what makes it so vile.

"Blow Back" is a classic. Note the new reprint a few years ago had an insightful added chapter.

Yes the US has engaged in the draining of resources from the underdeveloped world, a long tradition that goes back to the beginning of civilization, sea travel, urbanization, commerce.

The Cold War produced a competitive global situation somewhat like the British competing with the Spanish, French, Dutch, et al.

And America itself was once the underdeveloped prize rich in resources and domesticable plant and animal life.

Here's a question that one should really think about. What would our world be like in the major powers with their voracious appetites for goods had played the game differently?

We like to fantasize that there was domestic bliss and peace around the world until the European and American powers came in and trampled the ground with their muddy boots. But was it really like that?

We see in places like the Americas before the West came in, whole advanced empires wiped out in massive tribal wars. These people were as good at massacres and genocide as anybody.

We cannot even guess how somewhere like the Indian subcontinent would be today if the British had imported and exported without deciding to colonize the damned place.

What would the world be like if America had maintained an isolationist policy allowing everyone else to fend for themselves and deal with the Soviet overtures as best they could. Better? Worse?

Maybe everything would be rosy. Maybe the world would be even more hellish than it is now.

Real questions to which I only have speculative answers.


Mike

Originally posted by audas

What - ummmmmm - your hillarious.
Thats just brilliant - whats even better is someone has posted subsequent to another of your FACTS and totally destroyed your assertion. Care to elaborate on this - or do you still not "believe in books".....

For crying outloud... you are not showing any hint of intelligence... How in the world is it going to help you in this discussion, the fact that you have given as proof of your claims a couple of books written by a mamalogist who wrote his own claims about Climate Change, and you claim those books have more facts than the work of real Climatologists, and other scientists who actually study Climate Change, and have written peer reviewed research work...

I think everyone here knows who is the really hilarious person here. Don't change your day job.

Originally posted by audas

Im not sure of the purpose of this response - the Gulag Archipelago is one of the greatest works ever written - I doubt very much you have read it - either way there is no doubt they were horrendous, as were the mass starvations in the Ukraine - however these of these human tragedies comes close to the maelstrom of US global genocide - so why post it ?

BS, Communist regimes have murdered in the 20th century over 110 million people... and that's without counting the deaths of soldiers in battle. The U.S. has never gotten even close to any attrocity commited by Communist regimes, only liers like yourself like to spread anti-western propaganda.

Originally posted by audas
The reality is that the US has actually been overtly and covertly involved in WELL over 170 foreign engagements since the end of the second world war - Chalmers Johnson - "Nemesis" and "Blow Back".

BS again. Yes, the U.S. has done black ops, and so have done many other countries....

Originally posted by audas
True numbers would be far above 30 million - there are currently 5 million missing in Iraq - no casualties are recorded for non servicemen in the US military and 70% of all personell are non military - you don't even count your own dead - what sort of country are you ?

Again, BS... even the Iraqi people have turned against what people like yourself call "freedom fighters"... and they have done this because the insurgents are the ones causing the most deaths of Iraqis....

BAGHDAD, Sept. 17 — Nearly all the tribes from Iraq’s volatile Sunni-dominated Anbar Province have agreed to join forces and fight Al Qaeda insurgents and other foreign-backed “terrorists,” an influential tribal leader said Sunday. Iraqi government leaders encouraged the movement.

Twenty-five of about 31 tribes in Anbar, a vast, mostly desert region that stretches westward from Baghdad to the borders of Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, have united against insurgents and gangs that are “killing people for no reason,” said the tribal leader, Sheik Abdul Sattar Buzaigh al-Rishawi.

www.nytimes.com...

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but around here we try to DENY IGNORANCE, not embrace it like you do in every topic you decide to get involved in....

Originally posted by audas
The point is - THE USSR was never claiming the kind of benevolent status the US does - the hypocracy and underhandedness of the US slaughter is what makes it so vile.

BS, Communsit dictators always try to claim they are doing all attrocities for the good of the people, and the Communists who still exist around the world and want to spread their disease claim the same thing to this day...

Even today the Russian government by orders of Putin is indoctrinating their people into believing Stalin was a hero, and that the attrocities he commited can be excused because they were "for the good of the mother land"..... The Russian mafia, i mean police raided the biggest Human Rights organization in Russia which had 20 years of data of all the atrocities committed by Stalin... They are trying to rewrite history to hide the truth about Communism, and Stalin...

Do yourself a favour and stop lying...

Here is the proof as to what Russia is doing, and which backs my statements above.

Not only is Mr Malinkovich prepared to forgive Stalin's "mistakes", he also wants the man who is regarded as one of the most bloodthirsty tyrants of the 20th Century to be made a saint.

As I was interviewing him, he held a small neatly framed icon of Stalin's face.

Last month an Orthodox priest also displayed an icon of Stalin in his church near St Petersburg.

Although he was eventually forced to remove it, he vowed he would not be silenced and went on to describe Stalin as his "father".

Many in Russia do still revere Stalin for his role during World War II when the Soviet Union defeated the forces of Nazi Germany.

But now there is a much broader campaign to rehabilitate Stalin and it seems to be coming from the highest levels of government.

Archives seized

The primary evidence comes in the form of a new manual for history teachers in the country's schools, which says Stalin acted "entirely rationally".

"[The initiative] came from the very top," says the editor of the manual, historian Alexander Danilov.

"I believe it was the idea of former president, now prime minister, Vladimir Putin.

"It fits completely with the political course we have had for the last eight years, which is dedicated to the unity of society."

But the campaign goes further than reinterpreting history for schoolchildren. It is also physical.

Earlier this month, riot police raided the St Petersburg office of one of Russia's best-known human rights organisations, Memorial.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Apparently the new generations of Russians are willing to forgive Stalin's atrocities, or so claim the Russian mafia/KGB.

I guess they also forget how Stalin gave the go ahead to shoot on sight any Russian soldier who would not run towards the machine gun fire of the Germans. Even if the Russian soldiers just hid from the German fire, they would get shot by Russian machine gun fire for not running towards their death...



[edit on 22-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Let's actually see who have been the biggest mega-murderers in the 20th century, because too many anti-westerns are lying through their teeth.

1. 169,202,000 Murdered: Summary and Conclusions [20th Century Democide]


I BACKGROUND
2. The New Concept of Democide [Definition of Democide]
3. Over 133,147,000 Murdered: Pre-Twentieth Century Democide

II 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS

4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime

III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS

8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse

IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS

15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia

www.hawaii.edu...

Even POLAND's ethnic cleansing is higher than the real number of Iraqis killed by the allies.... I am not talking about the lies being perpetrated by every anti-U.S./ anti-westerner around here, who claims all deaths in Iraq are by the U.S., and that they number in over a million, which only exists in the minds of the anti-westerners...



[edit on 22-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Let's actually see who have been the biggest mega-murderers in the 20th century, because too many anti-westerns are lying through their teeth.

The presumption of many is that the world would be in a blissful state of peace, love, and prosperity, were it not for American foreign policy and intervention.

But history puts a lie to this. Since the beginning of recorded history, we've witnessed wide scale tribal wars, regional massacres, genocides, the wiping out of entire populations, in not only less developed parts of the world but in supposedly civilized Europe, right into the 20th Century.

An argument can be made that if the US had maintained a strict isolationist policy in the last 50 years we'd have seen unprecedented slaughter with modern technology facilitating mass murder at unheard of levels.

What would the world be like had the Soviet Union not had the US to keep it in check? Or China?

Be careful what you wish for.


Mike



[edit on 22-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Thats NOT the presumption. The presumption is that we should represent ourselves with honor and integrity. It doesnt seem like too much to ask. Better than it could have been is not enough. Reason being, the path we are now taking, while perhaps "better than it could have been"....continues to increase violence, anger, and the risk of nuclear war. We have started a new nuclear arms race for God's sake. Our world was one disobeyed order away from annihilation in '82 when a russian general refused the order for retaliatory launch in response to 5 american launches shown on their computers due to glitch. Anything that is NOT reduction of arms and nuclear weapons is insanity. Im sure when franz ferdinand was assassinated, no one realized it would erupt into a world war, and in a similar way, no one can know which of our actions may make violence break out on a massive scale as well, this time with many countries holding nukes. Could it be attacking another sovereign nation? Assassinating the wrong president? Who knows, but the choices TPTB seem to be making now are violence and more violence on top of violence.

We've been at war now for 7 years when it wasnt even supposed to be 1. Its bankrupted our country, when it was supposed to be paid for by oil profits. We have expanded that war to 2 other countries, and look to be expanding it some more....and this is with such a bad track record of predicting in the past what those other actions would result in.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Zerbst


The US is estimated to have caused between 20 and 30 million deaths since 1945!! Exactly what other country do you think can account for even half that? You my friend need to take a better look into history and your knowledge, or lack, of it!

Stalin's Purges

Under the dictatorship of Joseph Stalin, tens of millions of ordinary individuals were executed or imprisoned in labour camps that were little more than death camps. Perceived political orientation was the key variable in these mass atrocities. But gender played an important role, and in many respects the Purge period of Soviet history can be considered the worst gendercide of the twentieth century.

This is from your source.

How many died?

In the original version of his book The Great Terror, Robert Conquest gave the following estimates of those arrested, executed, and incarcerated during the height of the Purge: Arrests, 1937-1938 - about 7 million Executed - about 1 million Died in camps - about 2 million In prison, late 1938 - about 1 million In camps, late 1938 - about 8 million Conquest concluded that "not more than 10 percent of those then in camp survived." Updating his figures in the late 1980s based on recently-released archival sources, he increased the number of "arrests" to 8 million, but reduced the number in camps to "7 million, or even a little less." This would give a total death toll for the main Purge period of just under ten million people.

I stated data on countries bombed and people killed by the US since 1945. Stalin died in 1953, so it's safe to say most, or all of this happened prior to 1945. Even still it would be half at best, not to mention Stalin DIED in 1953!! The US on the other hand is alive and well, it's killing machine that is, not it's glory. There is a good way to look at those of you who support them. What was greatly respected and loved about America is gone. It's oppression, destruction, and murdering war machine is basically all that is left. That is what you are defending. That is what you hold so dear to you now. Is that what you want? Hopefully not.

Peace.

reply to post by SLAYER69

1981-1988: Reagan Administration Gives Covert Support to Iraq Against Iran

The Reagan administration provides covert support to Iraq in an effort to prevent Iran from overrunning the oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf. [New York Times, 8/18/2002; Nation, 8/26/2002; Washington Post, 12/30/2002]

US Air Force officers are secretly deployed to Iraq to assist their counterparts in the Iraqi military. [Nation, 8/26/2002]

The US provides satellite photography to Iraq revealing the movements of the Iranian forces. [Washington Post, 12/15/1986; New York Times, 8/18/2002 Sources: senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program, Unnamed informed sources interviewed by reporter Bob Woodward]

The US provides Iraq with intelligence gathered by Saudi-owned AWACS operated by the Pentagon. [Nation, 8/26/2002]

Iraq uses US-supplied military intelligence "to calibrate attacks with mustard gas on Iranian ground troops…." (see 1984) [Washington Post, 12/15/1986]

"[M]ore than 60 officers of the Defense Intelligence Agency…. secretly [provide] detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq." [New York Times, 8/18/2002]

President Reagan and Vice President George Bush personally deliver military advice to Saddam Hussein, both directly and through intermediaries (see 1986). [Affidavit. United States v. Carlos Cardoen, et al. [Charge that Teledyne Wah Chang Albany illegally provided a proscribed substance, zirconium, to Cardoen Industries and to Iraq], 1/31/1995 pdf file; Washington Post, 12/30/2002]

The US closely monitors "third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq [has] the military weaponry required." [Affidavit. United States v. Carlos Cardoen, et al. [Charge that Teledyne Wah Chang Albany illegally provided a proscribed substance, zirconium, to Cardoen Industries and to Iraq], 1/31/1995 pdf file; Washington Post, 12/30/2002]

According to the censured portion of Iraq's December 7, 2002 declaration to the UN (see December 7, 2002) (see December 19, 2002), Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and Sandia National Laboratories help train Iraqi nuclear weapons scientists and provide nonfissile material for Iraq's nuclear weapons program. [San Francisco Chronicle, 1/26/2003]

1984: CIA Assists Iraq in Chemical Weapons Attacks

The CIA secretly provides Iraqi intelligence with instructions on how to "calibrate" its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops.

1986: NULL write over us-iraq 80s
Edit event

US President Ronald Reagan sends a secret message to Saddam Hussein recommending that he order his military to intensify its air attacks against Iran. The message is delivered by Vice President Bush who conveys the message to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who in turn passes it on to Saddam Hussein. The talking points for Bush's meeting with Mubarak are authored by national security aide Howard Teicher.

Iraq's suppliers of chemical and biological agent precursors - Iraq's declaration includes the names of 150 foreign companies, several of which are from the US, Britain, Germany and France. Germany allowed eighty companies to supply Iraq with materials that could be used in the production of weapons of mass destruction since 1975, while the US allowed 24 of its own businesses. Also included in the list are ten French businesses and several Swiss and Chinese companies. "From about 1975 onwards, these companies are shown to have supplied entire complexes, building elements, basic materials and technical know-how for Saddam Hussein's program to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction," the Independent explains. "They also supplied rockets and complete conventional weapons systems."

www.historycommons.org...

That better? If not, there are hundreds of sources reporting the same. Nobody is denying this, you would be the first that I have seen?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
You are not stating any facts, you are just twisting facts, and even lying through your teeth. The Germans, and the French, alongside other western countries do whatever they want. The U.S, is not to blame for what other countries do.

Now now no need for personal attacks. Simple fact is America was aware of the Chemical Weapons factory and gave its blessing. I never said America was responsible for it, stop with the persecution complex. It's getting very tiresome.

Originally posted by rogue1
And what did you do?... Nothing so you are to blame for the Germans, and the French supplying Iraq, and Iran.....

I'm not American, I come from a small country. If America wants to act as world leader, the act like it. Enough of your kindergarten rhetorical questions.

The French gave the Israelis their nuclear secrets, and helped them build the Israeli nuclear bombs, yet people like you have been claiming it was the U.S. when this is not true.

People like me ? Where have I stated this? Your assumptions are ridiculous and further hinder you already extremely emotionally faulted argument.

Back in 2005 or maybe even 2006 I reported, and gave the statements of French officials stating that it was time for them to supply with nuclear weapons other Middle Eastern countries, enemies of Israel, and the French themselves were the ones who gave israel their nuclear weapons.... yet the LEFT, and even brainwashed Europeans, alongside many people who hate the west, and the U.S. have been lying by stating it was the U.S. who armed Israel.

The US did arm Israel. I wasn't aware other countries apart from teh US built F-16's and F-15's.

And France didn't intentionally gove Israel the bomb.

At a subsequent meeting with Ben-Gurion, de Gaulle offered to sell Israel fighter aircraft in exchange for stopping work on the reprocessing plant, and came away from the meeting convinced that the matter was closed. It was not. Over the next few months, Israel worked out a compromise. France would supply the uranium and components already placed on order and would not insist on international inspections. In return, Israel would assure France that they had no intention of making atomic weapons, would not reprocess any plutonium, and would reveal the existence of the reactor, which would be completed without French assistance. In reality, not much changed - French contractors finished work on the reactor and reprocessing plant, uranium fuel was delivered and the reactor went critical in 1964.
www.fas.org...

You, and some others have been laid bare for other member to see that you only hate the U.S., nomatter who is, or was in power.

You people are so delluded thinking that by lying, and spreading nothing more than lies, and hatred your ideology is going to be accepted...

Please, spoken like a true redneck who knows nothing of the real world. I actually like America alot, that's why I'm here and the girls love my accent, but I am my own person. Your blind patriotism is quite interesting, like a dog to it's master. Go and see the world, do something worthwhile with your life.



[edit on 22-6-2009 by rogue1]

reply to post by Zerbst

Originally posted by Zerbst

That better? If not, there are hundreds of sources reporting the same. Nobody is denying this, you would be the first that I have seen?

Well I don't know Show me where I have denied any of that?

Oh hey you're absolutely right. Whats another 10 million killed among friends. The way your links to rag pages count the death tolls is if the US is even "associated" with a regime then by yours and their yard stick anything those regimes do is counted going towards the American caused death toll.

I am well aware of the history behind those and many more actions taken in the name of the American people. That's what super powers do they have always done such things. Maybe you may find that hard to believe. Correct me if I'm wrong in this assessment? But wasn't most of those American Caused deaths During the cold war?

Who were on the opposite side also funding and fueling those conflict? Do we even look or consider adding up those numbers? or are we just to continue to turn a blind eye and just focus on the US part?

Change the channel that was last years pop song.

Edited for typos sorry I'm on lunch typing with my pinky



[edit on 22-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Even POLAND's ethnic cleansing is higher than the real number of Iraqis killed by the allies.... I am not talking about the lies being perpetrated by every anti-U.S./ anti-westerner around here, who claims all deaths in Iraq are by the U.S., and that they number in over a million, which only exists in the minds of the anti-westerners...

Sad you can justify it with figures of past massacres. I though America was meant to be an enlightened country where personal liberties are sacricanct. But here you are justifying Iraq murders related to the US invasion to other extreme regimes around the world.
So are you likening America to these countries ? You don't think America should hold itself to a higher standard ?

SAD.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I guess they also forget how Stalin gave the go ahead to shoot on sight any Russian soldier who would not run towards the machine gun fire of the Germans. Even if the Russian soldiers just hid from the German fire, they would get shot by Russian machine gun fire for not running towards their death...

Ahem, now which movie did that come from ? Ah...Enemy at the Gates !

LMAO, is this your argument movie scenes ? Ridiculous

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I guess they also forget how Stalin gave the go ahead to shoot on sight any Russian soldier who would not run towards the machine gun fire of the Germans. Even if the Russian soldiers just hid from the German fire, they would get shot by Russian machine gun fire for not running towards their death...

Ahem, now which movie did that come from ? Ah...Enemy at the Gates !

LMAO, is this your argument movie scenes ? Ridiculous

ROFLMAO

Lessons From World War II

There is, however, a darker side to this legacy. Russian apologists for Communism use the victory in World War II as a validation of the Soviet regime - and sometimes as an excuse for the odious rule of Joseph Stalin, Hitler's rival in butchery. In recent years, the Russian government has exploited the war to promote the image of Russia as a benign power and denigrate the claims of Eastern European countries and former Soviet republics which see themselves as victims not only of Nazi Germany but of Soviet Communism as well.

The glorified official Russian view of the war also ignores the extent to which the wartime suffering of the Russian people was inflicted by their own leadership. There is little mention of the fact that untrained, ill-equipped draftees were used as cannon fodder, that regular troops were routinely followed by special units which shot at soldiers who tried to retreat, or Soviet soldiers taken prisoner by the Germans were branded traitors for surrendering and often sent to the gulag prison camps for their homecoming.

Battle of Moscow

But Stalin had decided to stay in Moscow and make a stand. Under a "state of siege," 500,000 men and women dug 5,000 miles of trenches around the city; equipment from 500 factories was shipped east to keep it out of Nazi hands. For the forthcoming battle, Stalin refused to allow his commanders to make tactical withdrawals. As Red Army soldiers dug into the fields on the outskirts of Moscow, new defense works were built directly behind the troops, manned by special units of the NKVD. These forces aimed their guns not at the Germans, but at soldiers of the Red Army who dared to retreat.

“We forced them to fight to the death. If they resisted or ran away we eliminated them. We shot them. That's all. They weren't fighters anymore. It was hard. It was bad. I understand. But what can you do?”
- Vladimir Ogryzko, 1st NKVD Division

[edit on 22-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

As the other poster stated....just because other countries partake in terror and destruction by no means makes ours any less despicable. Further, as also stated, no other massive empire is currently massacring multiple other countries at the moment, nor any other empire restricting americans freedoms, or supporting torture as legal and necessary before all the world, except for america.