2010 FIFA World Cup thread

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

Well...perhaps a couple of dollars on Spain then and rooting for the Dutch...

That sounds like a good idea. Are you of Dutch heritage?

The octopus has indeed chosen Spain, but I thought he was wrong for one game? I believe Holland and Spain are very evenly matched... It's going to be one of those where I go in neutral. I DO think Spain have a slight edge with possession and quality, but it's only slight. Holland have a great first touch and work in possession as well. Both goalkeepers have been wonderful but I give Spain's a slight edge. Neither really has a significant edge on the other. Also, as C. Ronaldo ran well at Spanish defense, Robben may be able to do that as well. I don't think quality will be deciding this World Cup final, it will have a lot to do with form, luck, and who shows up for the big game.

reply to post by Novise


I would like to share this news about Paul the octopus here.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 10-7-2010 by Romantic_Rebel]

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

Irish/British/German who lives in the U.S....but I was rooting for South Africa...

Ireland, I just found out, was ripped off by the French. Just another reason to order Onion Rings over French Fries...

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Argh, it gave me a 404 error.

reply to post by MemoryShock


Ohh so you're Western European! I'm multi racial and it's pretty cool. Just another reason to enjoy tacos, hamburgers and whatever else is out there.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
I would like to share this news about Paul the octopus here.
en.wikipedia.org...

They updated that one quickly...

reply to post by MemoryShock


Yes about the french fries that is very true. Ireland it seems, could have actually been a very solid team in the World Cup. Stuff like the Thierry Henry handball.. just another reason many want to see replay technology implemented into football, especially when a goal is involved in the play. (Not so much when it doesn't involve a goal decision)

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
Ohh so you're Western European! I'm multi racial and it's pretty cool. Just another reason to enjoy tacos, hamburgers and whatever else is out there.

I'm human and I dislike what is done in the name of borders...

Don't forget nachos mixed with lasagna and a side of sushi...

reply to post by MemoryShock


Now THAT is mind opening.

reply to post by Novise


Please. That's just another example of soccer's archaic rules. Committing a penalty should never give your team an advantage. Clearly, the ball was sure goal. The rules allowed for the possibility of a missed penalty kick. Therefore, Uruguay benefited from the penalty and the rules allowed it.

The referee should have the power to allow a goal in such a case, just like it is in hockey if a player commits a penalty while preventing the puck to enter an open net.

It's FIFA they should be booing, archaic institution that it is.

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Novise

 

Please. That's just another example of soccer's archaic rules. Committing a penalty should never give your team an advantage. Clearly, the ball was sure goal. The rules allowed for the possibility of a missed penalty kick. Therefore, Uruguay benefited from the penalty and the rules allowed it.

The referee should have the power to allow a goal in such a case, just like it is in hockey if a player commits a penalty while preventing the puck to enter an open net.

It's FIFA they should be booing, archaic institution that it is.

I don't like the institutionalization of FIFA myself, but with the rules set on the board... I can see the side as you have presented it. However, it seems that the sentiment has everything to do with the choice of this young man Suarez. They did not Boo the President of Fifa Blatter, during the opening parts and the anthems, rather they booed Suarez.

I think it's quite unfair how FIFA has this rigid control over the World Cup for nearly a century. I wonder by what merit they have it?

Your point of view has merit. If Suarez had done that in the opening moments of play, his team would have been a man down the whole game. For it to happen at the last moment is a crazy mix of circumstance and in that way it costed his team less.

Really, the Ghanaian forward should have buried the penalty. Rising above the Ref's/rules is part of the game, and he should have done so. It's generally 7/10 a penalty goes in.

Like when a team gives away a lot of free kicks, its a war of attrition. The penalty was required to end that war of attrition also at the expense (edit: an expense to the other team) of a sending off.

I don't know how to tackle the issue philosophically or generally at this point, but it's not the first time a player has done such in sacrifice to his team. One that springs to mind is the substitute forward Solksjaer for Manchester United.

Here is that example, very much in line with what Suarez did. It happens.




Edit: Sorry for another late edit, but notice how calmly the commentator expresses that Solksjaer will be sent off, no question, day in day out in football.
[edit on 10-7-2010 by Novise]

[edit on 10-7-2010 by Novise]

Originally posted by TheComte
Please. That's just another example of soccer's archaic rules. Committing a penalty should never give your team an advantage. Clearly, the ball was sure goal. The rules allowed for the possibility of a missed penalty kick. Therefore, Uruguay benefited from the penalty and the rules allowed it.

The referee should have the power to allow a goal in such a case, just like it is in hockey if a player commits a penalty while preventing the puck to enter an open net.

It's FIFA they should be booing, archaic institution that it is.

People can say all they want that the player who took the penalty should have scored, but the fact remains that the Uruguay player's decision to handball, an illegal course of action, prevented the the other team from scoring what was a guaranteed legal goal.

The worst aspect of instances like these is the message it imprints in the minds of future players. They will repeat the behaviour so their team can benefit at their own individual expense. What do you think the odds are that player would do the same thing if the consequences were two penalties in a row?

It's an ugly part of the game in the same way that diving is. They need to make the consequences for a player's actions more harsh on the team as a whole. I don't like the idea of punishing a whole team for the actions of a single player, but when these things are costing other teams a place in the semi-finals then the issue must be addressed.

In addition, I think this example gives more substance to the notion that video technology should be better utilised. It tarnishes the game when mistakes that are easily preventable with technology keep being repeated because FIFA are so afraid of change. It would be breaking tradition, but think of the positives that would result.

(PS: For the Final, I predict Spain will win 3-2 against Netherlands.)

[edit on 11/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Final Today!!

Then I can get on with my life and try and get a job! Lol.

Anyway, what I find mental is how Me and a few others said 'Spain to Win' right at the begining, but after their Loss against the Swiss and then the performances by Germany and Argentina, a lot of us changed our minds!

And now... LOW AND BEHOLD! Spain are magically in the Final!

And whats even mooorreee weirder, is that I just happen to be wearing an Orange T-shirt today...

reply to post by Dark Ghost


This is so weird, I just disagree entirely. The player who did the handball was in a rare position. There are so many factors. I'm just trying to explain my point of view here, following will not be FIFA endorsed terminology: For a start, for that player to be on the goal line had an "opportunity cost." He could have been upfield looking to counter attack, especially being the player with the most (or 2nd most) accurate shot. I think there are so many factors, and not once have I really felt that he deserved the BOOs, or that the rules are incorrect. Ball has to cross the line.

To score a goal outright, it should be necessary to beat the defenses resistance, it should be soundly beaten without a doubt. That's what the rules like offside accomplish - they make it harder. IF you make it easier, the game loses it's appeal. That's why goals from range are so cool - there is no way it's going to be called back - no way it's offside, a very simple matter. Once you get involved in things going on in the box, it's a different world.

A red card + a penalty is almost always a worse punishment than conceding a goal. And if that changes (big edit sorry), then there is something inherently wrong with the style of play - if you feel it's the other way around, then Football is going in the wrong direction - if you appeal to that line of thinking you are putting to much importance (in chess you would say) of material (goals) versus position (players and their state of being).

Is a professional foul done at midfield to stop a counter attack wrong? It's not, as long as it's done professionally, often earning a yellow card and the ref will hold no ill will. There's just too many factors in the grand scheme of the game.

If this occured in the opening moments of the match, it would have been better for him to let the ball go in (I bet he would have), as he was vital to the side. This would have been a tactical decision. Circumstance dictated he sacrifice himself + penalty. It adds another element to the game, circumstance, tactics.

I hate to try to explain it so wordy, but I just deep down do not see the issue with this - I understand a lot are on the other side of the fence, but my heart goes with Suarez and the rules as they are on this one.

For the Lampard Goal, I think technology should be used- that's why FIFA only wants goal line technology - it's not a goal unless the ball crosses the line. Once it does, now we can talk about it. Without that simplification... the line is not easily drawn. It wont always be as cut and dry as the Suarez handball. What then? The ref may be forced to "give a goal" cause the ball "was going in." And that could have catastrophic ramifications.

It simply wont always be that cut and dry, and the line will have to be drawn. The ref would get appeals to "give the goal" every game if the rules were changed as such. Instead of a yellow card for intentional hand ball outside the box. The line is not easily drawn.

On a lighter note I did learn something this world cup - You can't be offside from a goal kick - just like you can't be offside from a throw in.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Novise]

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Novise]

reply to post by Novise


Hi there, just jumping in on the argument about Luis Suarez.

If it was me, I would have done the same thing.

Defending a last Minute corner, standing on the goal line, ball gets crossed-in, its headerd towards you. You cant quite reach it with your head, so... Instinctively you raise your arms to stop it going in.

Suarez had the right punishment- An Instant Red Card, and a one match ban.

But fair enougth, maybe FIFA could have extended the ban, but then that would show 'disgrimination' against the player.


Anyway, I hope to see Suarez in the Premiership next season as Man Utd and Chelsea are showing an intrest.

eee.

reply to post by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire


I really didn't like him before because of his attitude. He gave the refs this obviously patronizing and just dismissive look before a freekick... like he had no respect and he was overall just cocky. But he loves his country and he's made the whole country of Uruguay cheer more than a few times.

My favorite forward was probably Tevez. Suarez slowly won me over, just seems to be the type of player that is either ON or OFF but he seems to have a golden right foot and knows where to position himself, reading the game well. I think the wind must have helped him on his curling shot goal (and he knew it would)- they often said the wind was blowing 20 mph at games. To have the wind helping you is a players dream in that situation and at that angle and I think it's awesome it happened at a world cup like that. I havent heard which way the wind was blowing, only that it was. He certainly did not do that AGAINST the wind lol.

But that's just more of the magic. Luis Suarez, man of circumstance for sure. Reminds me of Mark Twain and providence, Suarez found himself in so many situations lol. Just crazy how fate can be sometimes.

EDIT: And as far as what I would have done. I think in my younger days I wouldn't have done it, when I played I probably would have tried to head it and let it go in if I couldn't. But now I think I would have done the handball - last moment of the match. If I'm on the line in that situation and my goalie is out of position I would probably have my knees bent and hands up, ready to dive goalkeeper style if necessary.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by Novise]

reply to post by Novise


Man of Circumstance... Got that right.

Although, he missed a good opertunity in the first half of yesterdays 3rd place Germany Vs Uruguay game, where he broke away, got inside the penalty
but the angle was tight and he put it past the rear post.

But talking about big name players, a lot of them havent performed that well in my oppinion.

Saying that, watch someone like Torres get back in the Spain starting 11 tonight and score a hattrick!! Lol.

Originally posted by Novise
It simply wont always be that cut and dry, and the line will have to be drawn. The ref would get appeals to "give the goal" every game if the rules were changed as such. Instead of a yellow card for intentional hand ball outside the box. The line is not easily drawn.

I see what you are saying and can appreciate where you are coming from. I am viewing the use of technology in football/soccer the same way it is used in cricket. The umpire (referee) can call "third umpire" when there is a run out that is too close to call (I personally believe LBW decisions should also be allowed for this, but I think I am in the minority for that one.) The point is that we have the technology available that can help make the game fairer and less stressful for all involved. There are some setbacks, like the slowing down of general play, but I believe the positives far outweigh the negatives.

For me this is all about removing aspects of football/soccer that make people NOT want to play, or NOT want to watch the sport. It will never be perfect and there will still be mistakes, but overall things will be much better for players, fans and especially referees.

On a lighter note I did learn something this world cup - You can't be offside from a goal kick - just like you can't be offside from a throw in.

Yeah that's what's good about it, always something new to learn and appreciate. On the topic of offside, notice how there are linesmen who technically only need to focus on this aspect of the game. Whereas referees have much to focus on, where room for error and misjudgement is greatly increased. I think people really underplay the difficulty involved with refereeing a match.

[edit on 11/7/2010 by Dark Ghost]