New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

reply to post by ArMaP


Maybe this is the point we should have started with.

Could this tether video be a hoax?

I hadn't thought of that, until I decided to look at the video as possibly being manipulated. There is a startling contrast between NASA footage of the tether being deployed and breaking free, and the video footage that captures the UFOs that we are all so fascinated with. The difference might just be from the distance between the tether, and the shuttle. Maybe Zorgon is right, and this is in UV from the nose cam. If this was taken hours later, or the next day after the incident, I would think that the shuttle bay doors would have been closed for a long time. I notice that not all the NASA footage has the time and day information, so maybe this is only on certain video footage, like when conducting operations.

Wasn't it five days after??

After five days the shuttle most likely have don both maneuvers and closed the bay doors or am I wrong?

reply to post by poet1b


The video, if true and if I understand it right, was made three days after the break.

The tether broke on day 5, "at about 7:30 p.m. CST", and I think this video is from the last opportunity the had to see it, on day 8, because they said this on day 9.

The closest approach occurred at 11:17 central time last night (approximately 7/08:59 MET), and was captured on videotape as the satellite and its 12-mile tether came into view.

PS: information found here.


Edit: it was not the last opportunity, that was on day 13; they failed to see it at the closest approach and only saw it on the next orbit, from a distance of about 450 nautical miles.

[edit on 15/6/2009 by ArMaP]

Originally posted by poet1b

Any ice crystals that are not ice vapor, quickly turn to ice vapor. Do you understand the term vapor? This can be observed on videos from space missions.
...
Let me recap.

Ice crystals that form around the shuttle quickly turn into molecular sized ice vapor, and do not stay with the shuttle for long as they are pulled away from the shuttle by gravity.

The ice vapor that water becomes in space is too small to form the floating UFOs we see in the famous tether video.

NASA videos do not show these ice crystals in their videos. Most often space looks like space, empty of floating plasma looking creatures that we see in the famous tether video. This is what makes the tether video famous. Those who claim the ice crystal distortion explanation have yet to provide other examples, which should be common if these supposed ice crystals around the space shuttle were in fact normal phenomenon.

Other posters have already provided shuttle videos which show these plasma creature looking UFOs floating in clear black space, all by their lonesome, unaccompanied by numerous other ice crystals what would be the normal situation when ice vapor or crystals were caught on camera. Observation of a single ice crystal would be extremely rare, and there would be numerous videos of ice crystals clouds if they were as common as claimed, so the odds of a single ice crystal being observed is astronomically small. Also video footage of a ice crystal should show space pulling the crystal apart, as it happens quickly.

Originally posted by poet1b

No, ice crystals are not very reflective, they are translucent, and are crystal in shape, which means a varied surface. It is only the impurities in ice that makes it look white, which makes impure ice crystals mildly reflective.

Originally posted by zorgon

Besides do you have ANY idea on how long an ice particle remains ice in space before it sublimates?

No, both of you are assuming WRONG.

Ice particles can stay for some time following the shuttle, it has good reflectance, and can be easy see even from the MOONLIGHT. And is a common product of shuttle activities.
Therefore, it can be relatively easy to catch them on movies. And guess it, it happens from time to time. Good stuff for UFO Hunters

Look for the following sequence, explained from the astronauts themselves (STS 75 mission from shuttle archives: www.nss.org... )


here is the short but relevand sequence:



look until the end!

Nice cristals of ice following the shuttle, twinkling in the moon light! Spectacular view. Which contradicts your asumptions that ice cristals should evaporate quicly, are going away quicly, it is not reflective, can't be
seen on cameras etc etc. WRONG.

Now, disagree with this, too

[edit on 15/6/09 by depthoffield]

reply to post by depthoffield


When you're right, your right.

Now make them all converge near the center from different directions. (kidding)

But, that does raise another question...

Was shuttle approaching or receding from the tether at the time of shooting?

If approaching, that would seem to rule out trailing debris. But if I recall correctly, I think ground control first calls out 70nm and then later the astronaut reports 81nm. So that would add more weight to debris as the culprit. I suppose the exception, in both cases, could be if they had performed a deceleration maneuver prior to shooting. Even a very slight one.

As for the footage looking different than typical NASA fare, it seems clear to me that they were engaging different filters or live processing enhancements during the time in question. You can see several stark transitions.

reply to post by ArMaP


This explains why the original video shows the exploration of space, looking for the tether long range. One would guess that they are using the camera available with the longest range possible, and at the full extent of the camera's range. This is beyond what anyone's home camera's are able to look at, which means that none of these home made videos are very applicable to the situation.

reply to post by depthoffield


No denies that these ice particles exist, and follow the shuttle, but how long they last, which this video does not demonstrate, and what do they look like.

You said the key word your self, they twinkle, as the crystal surfaces turn they reflect the light differently. This is not what we are seeing in the tether video. What we see in the tether video does not look like ice crystals, these UFO's do not twinkle.

Also note the density, the camera aperture would be very narrow to focus in on the very distant tether.

In addition, these ice crystals clearly trail the shuttle.

reply to post by poet1b


Yes, that is part of the problem, nobody (as far as I know) has a camera like that at home.

To clear some doubts about the shape of an out of focus object mentioned some posts back I made a little video with a borrowed camera (it's from the company where I work and I am allowed to use it whenever I want ), but unfortunately, although it's good camera for taking photos, the zoom is not that great, a video camera would have been better.

In this video, the appearing and disappearing out of focus object is some 3.2 metres away from the camera; the camera was focused on a TV screen I could see in a building some 60 metres away; the object, as anyone can see at the end, was a small tin-foil star, and its shape when out of focus is almost a circle, although sometimes it looks a little like a very "fat" pentagon.



So, I think we can consider that an out of focus bright object looses its shape, but if more people want to make their own experiments and post them the better.

reply to post by depthoffield


So why are all the particles of crystal ice moving in the same direction following the shuttle?

Originally posted by zorgon
So why are all the particles of crystal ice moving in the same direction following the shuttle?

Interesting question. You would think whatever force dislodged them from the shuttle would impel them to keep moving in the direction of that force. The dumping we see at the beginning of the video definitely shows them moving away at a significant velocity.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by Raybo58]

Originally posted by zorgon

So why are all the particles of crystal ice moving in the same direction following the shuttle?

Why not?

They are a by-product of the shuttle.

This movie just shows you what some refuses..that ice debris stay quite for a while, can be easy seen in particular lightning conditions, and not necesarily goes away from the shuttle (ejected).

Moreover, they could have different trajectories between themselves, as this composite picture shows:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/71ce271bb6e6.jpg[/atsimg]

in the left bottom corner they are 2 with crossover trajectories. And there are other following other relative directions, not necessarily all of them are fixed and going parallel.



This was just an example of what ice debris could do.



This is another example, of what they can do:


curved, arced, parabolic trajectories in different direction, with different speeds.

look until the end!


By the way, poet1b, not all of them twinkle. Do not deny the reality inventing "keywords".





[edit on 15/6/09 by depthoffield]

reply to post by Raybo58

There are water dumps and there are water dumps. Have a look at this video of another water dump. The particles of effluent display a very wide variety of trajectories and speeds. They interact with each other. They interact with gasses entrained in the dumped material. They get sent on their various merry ways but not in the same paths. Some leave the area in a hurry. Some linger. Some temporarily follow curved trajectories. The ones on vectors very different from the shuttle don't hang around long. The ones with vectors similar to the shuttle drift around lazily. It's pretty hard to guess what they're going to do. But since a dump is the event of interest in this video, they are in focus and it is plain that they are small, shiny thingies.

Water dump


whups, DOF beat me to it.

[edit on 6/15/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by depthoffield



hey not a bad comparison video, depthoffield

thanks for your effort but, even though i see some similarities, i also see some differences so i would have to say your video is interesting and something to consider but, it does not conclusively prove to me, what we see in the STS-75 Video is the same thing.

i certainly don't see any of the "ice" in your video make a complete stop before changing direction.


also, i am going to go out on a thin limb and say i believe the objects in the STS-75 ufo video were NOT just released immediately prior to the video capture the Astronauts made.

watch this video and you can hear the Astronaut say " there is some debri following us " but he never say's where it came from or how long it was following them. i wonder why ? you would think that would be important info to relay since they are questioning what is being seen by the video camera.


so if these objects were NOT released just prior to the video being taken (wich seems to be the case imo ) i don't see how any forces from a water dump could still be a factor at that point.


what about "ice" from somewhere else off the Shuttle ?

Google Video Link

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c31a6f98dec3.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/93620f3d90c7.png[/atsimg]




also want to add....i believe the video was taken with that TOP camera. it seems to me they admit to it in the google video

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a0987f23174c.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bcdf026a2828.png[/atsimg]


so i would have to say....until we see the flight records and are able to match that up with the video and see if it was a water dump or just debri off the shuttle or something else...all we can do is speculate about what is in the video.

the mystery lives on

reply to post by depthoffield


Yeah, not all of them twinkle, but most of them do twinkle. None of the UFOs in the Tether Video twinkle. Also, on this latest video of yours, notice how quickly the twinkling ice crystals disappear? They don't last very long, the vacuum of space pulls them apart. They last a few hours at best as someone has stated, and that would be a very few. In addition, they all appear to be going in the same direction, a few at opposing angles, but primarily in the same direction, in the tether video they are going in all directions, many in opposite directions.

Several days into the journey, there will not be any ice crystals left from water that was carried into space on the outside of the shuttle.

Originally posted by poet1b
Several days into the journey, there will not be any ice crystals left from water that was carried into space on the outside of the shuttle.

The biggest source of water is not what is carried outside, but what is dumped during the missions, and they can make several during each mission.

It is even possible (although I doubt it) that one of those had occurred moments before the video was made (if the video is true).

PS: I almost forgot (and I even deleted it from your quote above), as far as I understand it, the ice does not disappear because it's pulled apart by the vacuum, but because it melts.

Originally posted by zorgon

Now there is only one problem with the 'lens artifact' excuse.

IF it was a lens artifact that creates the 'notch' effect, then in any given frame you pick the notch would be in the SAME direction as all 'points of light' would show the same effect.

However in the video they are not, as you can see in this capture wher the two main critters show the notch opposite each other. This would be impossible for a lens artifact to accomplish

And in the next frame notice what has happened

The notch is now the opposite direction.

=================




Zorgon, the lens artifact effect is not fixed in entire frame, but is fixed in areas of the frame. In the same area of the frame, all the "notched disks" have the same shape.

I said this before, with enough details: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Surely you missed it if you continue to refuse the lens artifact FACT.

Or maybe, another easy demonstration here:



Take any area you want..the red one, the blue one etc, and see how all the disks in that area have the same shape.

Everybody can see that when a "nothced disc" pass a specific area in the frame, it will have the shape characteristic to that area. There are "notched disks" which pass 2, or three different areas in the frame, and look how obedient they are...it takes the shape of the area traversed.

Easy to see that the shape of the notched disk it simply and acurattely depends just by the position in the frame.. Which means "LENS ARTIFACT'

A more complex one, not just what you say "would be all in the SAME direction". As you see, indeed they are in the same direction, but only when in the same fixed area of the frame. Just a little bit confusing at first glance. I wonder how didn't you notice that.


FACT is that the shape of the disks has nothing to do with the real shape of the objects...they are a lens effect. (It is called bokeh, but for now is enough to aknowledge shape-to-lens dependence)





[edit on 16/6/09 by depthoffield]

[edit on 16/6/09 by depthoffield]

Originally posted by depthoffield
Take any area you want..the red one, the blue one etc, and see how all the disks in that area have the same shape.

Not to worry I am taking one area... the video is complete, but still no time for the frames yet... but I will be back

Then we see if your story holds water

When I first saw the video, I assumed that the appearance of the moving objects was because they were out of focus (as is clearly the tether itself). To me it seems evident that they are point objects in the distance, their light scattered in the camera lens. Point objects in the distance can be anything, but these ones change their speed and direction! And they don't move just in parabolic arcs, like in the video provided by depthoffield (thanks for that), where I assume it's caused by Earth's gravity, they change their trajectory and speed suddenly, which can't be explained by a constant force like gravity affecting the acceleration of the object.

Originally posted by cnuum
When I first saw the video, I assumed that the appearance of the moving objects was because they were out of focus (as is clearly the tether itself).

Yes, the discs are mostly out of focus when the lens is zoomed. Is called BOKEH. (and the camera has a catadioptric lens, thus the appearance of donutz of the bokeh)

And the tether is NOT out of focus, it just superexposed the senzor, that's why is thick. If you look closely, when zoomed and then not zoomed, the thicknes of the tether is about the same, so it's thicknes is a camera artifact.

Originally posted by cnuum
they change their trajectory and speed suddenly, which can't be explained by a constant force like gravity affecting the acceleration of the object.

where is this "suddenly" in the sts-75 footage?

many or all of them are moving slowly in parabolic arcs with it's curbure toward the bottom of the screen. If it appears to just change to 180 degree the direction, is because the paraboloc arc is seen from a vantage point exactly in the plane of the trajectory.."seen from the edge".



[edit on 17/6/09 by depthoffield]

Originally posted by depthoffield
where is this "suddenly" in the sts-75 footage?

many or all of them are moving slowly in parabolic arcs with it's curbure toward the bottom of the screen. If it appears to just change to 180 degree the direction, is because the paraboloc arc is seen from a vantage point exactly in the plane of the trajectory.."seen from the edge".

If you look at the video in OP, you can see many non-parabolic flight paths where the velocity tails have been marked. Right at the beginning of sequence 1, there's an object in the upper left edge heading right, but it makes a few discrete turns - not constant curving - towards the top of the tether. So there's no constant force acting on that object and many others, but their speed and heading are modified at certain moments of time.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by cnuum]