Originally posted by suzque66
What debate forum?

A forum where two people can debate a topic without outside interference. This way we do not have to hear you complain about more then one person responding to your screeds.

Do you live to debate only on Mason subjects? If so, talk about brainwashing.

Is this a yes or no response to my debate question? If yes great. If no, stop whining about more then one person responding to you.

Don't forget, the very children you are subjecting this to are going to be adults, adults who are bagged and tagged for whatever is in store.

Hopefully nothing is 'in store' for them and they all live happy and productive lives.

When you are in diapers and your own grandchildren gather you up for being a burden to society..don't say Suz didn't warn ya!

Honestly, you really will not by prevelant in my thought process a month from now, let alone at the end of my life.

Originally posted by suzque66
The questions I asked have no been answered without bias from internet Masons.

Facts are not biased.

Originally posted by suzque66
The conversation is what it is. It turned into me defending my distaste for Masonry. The topic began with my comment that the whole idea of this sensitive information in the hands of Masons.

And we've posted time and time again that no information is kept. I am sure that we could bring you to an event and show you that we don't keep information and you still would not be satisfied.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Being able to identify and locate people is a natural desire that will be fullfilled. I bet your parents would love too see where you are right now.. not because they want to kill you with a gps guided self-propelled sniper bullet, but because they love and care about you and would like to be more a part of your life than they are now.

The program is not a tracking program. It's to assist in the recovery of a missing child.

Originally posted by suzque66
Speaking of ego, I don't need 2, 3 or 5 other chapter brothers or sisters to come pat my back (online or off) nor come to my defense of any crap affiliation. I guess my ego is bigger than yours. I am quite capable of standing alone here while you have 'possey'. Yeah..I'd say my ego is more entact than perhaps yours. Thanks

See we're just trying to stop the defamation of a good program. You are just baselessly lying about the Freemasons. The reason we stand together is because we know what we are talking about.

You seem to be satisfied with lying about a group you have no knowledge of. When confronted with your reasons you gave none. You basically have distaste Freemasons for no reason.

You seem to connecting dots that don't exist.

Originally posted by suzque66
Don't exaggerate. I mentioned ONCE that your mason brothers had to come aid you in the discussion.

Uh, actually you mentioned it several times.

Wasn't a complaint anyways, was an observation.

And I offered you a solution so you would not have to make this 'observation' again.

Do you see me crying or becoming a damsel in distress by your 'possey'?

Did you just mention again that more then one person repsonded to you? Oh wait, it is an 'observation'.

Couldn't care less if 3 grown men feel all gangland tough...

Good thing more then one person responding to you is not concerning enough for you to mention it again.....oh wait.

I also have no interest in any formal debate to be judged, why would I verbally spar with someone who has lead in their gloves?

Of course you would not, then you might have to actually support the nonsense you post with facts. But why would anyone want that. U2U me when you work up some fortitude.

Good night.

Originally posted by suzque66
and Roark? How can you compare car seats to pedophiles and kidnapping? It is obvious I have a distaste for Masons and all they stand for.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]

Yeah, it IS obvious, and it kinda detracts from your arguments, to be honest.

My comparison, which you apparently failed to grasp, was more around the provision of a free safety-oriented service. More importantly, I was questioning why someone would want to badmouth such a service.


[edit on 25-5-2009 by Roark]

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by suzque66
and Roark? How can you compare car seats to pedophiles and kidnapping? It is obvious I have a distaste for Masons and all they stand for.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]

Yeah, it IS obvious, and it kinda detracts from your arguments, to be honest.

My comparison, which you apparently failed to grasp, was more around the provision of a free safety-oriented service. More importantly, I was questioning why someone would want to badmouth such a service.

I didn’t mention pedophiles at all, and I don’t understand why you even brought them up. They have nothing to do with this discussion.

You said: "It's like if some organisation was offering to fund the professional inspection of baby seats in cars, and you were all like "well, baby seats don't really prevent deaths in car accidents". "

You cannot even compare a safety check like this to taking sensitive information such as DNA, figerprints, dental records and pictures. The whole premise behind most kidnappers is pedophellia related. I doubt the majority of cases are not because a couple (or person) is in dire need for a child. Not every case turns out to be a happy childhood elsewhere for these kids.

My idea of 'free safety-oriented service' would be more along the lines of teaching our children to be kinder individuals to begin with so they don't grow up to be creeps walking the streets grasping children.

Sign me up for that program of VALUE to citizenry.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

"Your the only liar here. You've defamed an entire group of people for no reason.

Us: The Freemasons don't keep any information from the CHIP
You: So, the Freemasons keep the information?

You: The Freemasons are evil and I don't like them
Us: What have they done?
You: What have they not done?
Us: Give us examples
You: Their just evil and I don't trust him for no reason. "

Putting words in that form is simply 'lying'.

It is not defamation. I don't like them and I have the right to my opinions. Defamation is what you just wrote about me actually by making up an imaginary scenerio.

I don't care if you call me the T-word. You do not intimidate me. You are only as tough as the people you associate with. Without them, you would perhaps have no self-esteem at all. Good for you, going out to get some of that all on your own

Originally posted by suzque66
You said: "It's like if some organisation was offering to fund the professional inspection of baby seats in cars, and you were all like "well, baby seats don't really prevent deaths in car accidents". "

You cannot even compare a safety check like this to taking sensitive information such as DNA, figerprints, dental records and pictures. [edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

I don't see why I can't compare them. The Freemasons don't keep the information, so its sensitivity is irrelevant. They are simply providing a free service, with no obligations whatsoever, to voluntary participants.

Anyway, it's clear that you have an underlying gripe with Freemasonry in general, so, even if they were doing something crazy like donating money to juvenile burns victims, I'm sure you'd find something wrong with that.

Weak.

Now, I am done trying to be logical to brainwashed clique-ish grown men (??) who have nothing but un-charming ideals from a group of a supposed 'gentleman's club'.

If you are an actual parent and have actual reasoning for participating or not participating in the Mason DNA parades...please comment.

Roark: sorry, no more.

If you and the other two decide you trust this system of 'charity' and good-cause, that is up to you.

Every scam business needs it's front of store for appearances sake. There is always the back room full of accountants, lawyers and scientists running the real agenda. Pity that those two are such pawns or chumps for humanity. The may have thrived well in honorable services elsewhere.

PS! If I were a weaker person, I would join a club in order to have commradery with people I hardly know just to 'fit in' somewhere and as the line in Rush says as the guy shoots up some heroin: 'It makes you feel all so unnecessary'



[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by suzque66
You cannot even compare a safety check like this to taking sensitive information such as DNA, figerprints, dental records and pictures.

The program doesn't keep it so who cares if they take a swab. The parent keeps it.

Originally posted by suzque66
My idea of 'free safety-oriented service' would be more along the lines of teaching our children to be kinder individuals to begin with so they don't grow up to be creeps walking the streets grasping children.

Well, it's one thing for us to offer a voluntary service, it would be another thing to tell parents how to raise their kids. It's still a free country.

Originally posted by suzque66
Putting words in that form is simply 'lying'.

I summarized what happened over 4-pages.

Originally posted by suzque66
It is not defamation. I don't like them and I have the right to my opinions. Defamation is what you just wrote about me actually by making up an imaginary scenerio.

Defamation: A false statement that injures someone's reputation and exposes him to public contempt, hatred, ridicule, or condemnation. If the false statement is published in print or through broadcast media, such as radio or TV, it is called libel. If it is only spoken, it is called slander.

You've clearly provided no evidence other than your opinion, that is defamation. I can prove that you've said what I summarized.

Originally posted by suzque66
I don't care if you call me the T-word. You do not intimidate me. You are only as tough as the people you associate with. Without them, you would perhaps have no self-esteem at all. Good for you, going out to get some of that all on your own

I wasn't trying to intimidate you. I have plenty of self-esteem...what's that have to do with anything? Maybe you should stop patronizing and prove your posts. Their evil because I think so is not fact.

I would never give my childrens DNA to an organisations that is not transparent and is based on secrets.
How can i ever realy find out what will happen to the information if the organisation that is gathering it is a secret organisation ?

Maybe it is all out of good will, but there is not realy a way for me to check this.

There can be many personal accounts of people who are freemasons and helped with this program, but that does not tell me any thing of what might happen outside my knowledge because the whole structure of the organisation that is gathering this information is a secret one.

Maybe this CHIP program states that all information that they collect will not be kept and stored, but how in the world can i check that if the organisation who is collecting it is a secret one?

I'm not a Freemason (although I used to be) and I am a parent, so I think I'm allowed to answer:

If there was what I considered to be sufficient governance controls and confidentiality around the information-gathering process then, yes, I would be happy to take part. It might not ever make a difference, but it's free and (if my aforementioned requirements were met) I wouldn't have to think about it ever again.

So, yeah. Wouldn't have a problem with it.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Roark]

Originally posted by suzque66
Now, I am done trying to be logical to brainwashed clique-ish grown men (??) who have nothing but un-charming ideals from a group of a supposed 'gentleman's club'.

Nothing you have posted has been logical. You posted one thing, we posted back with facts that can be corroborated. You were asked for examples why you have a distaste for them and yet you have shown nothing. All you did was defame them.

Originally posted by jaamaan
I would never give my childrens DNA to an organisations that is not transparent and is based on secrets.
How can i ever realy find out what will happen to the information if the organisation that is gathering it is a secret organisation?

Again, ALL THE INFORMATION IS GIVEN TO THE PARENTS. THE FREEMASONS KEEP NOTHING. You can watch them hit delete if you are that worried.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Maybe this CHIP program states that all information that they collect will not be kept and stored, but how in the world can i check that if the organisation who is collecting it is a secret one?

Like I said, you can watch them hit "START OVER" which deletes the information. Plus, we don't save the information so there is no way for a temp file to be created.

"Defamation: A false statement that injures someone's reputation and exposes him to public contempt, hatred, ridicule, or condemnation. If the false statement is published in print or through broadcast media, such as radio or TV, it is called libel. If it is only spoken, it is called slander."

Then you sue me and every other person on the internet/radio/newsprint for our contempt at your little group.

I don't like your affiliation.

I also do not like to date Burger King employees.

I do not like nurses or doctors that only go into the profession for the money.

I do not like green eggs and ham.

Get a mason attourney pal in the back room and sue me.

"Again, ALL THE INFORMATION IS GIVEN TO THE PARENTS. THE FREEMASONS KEEP NOTHING. You can watch them hit delete if you are that worried. "

oh oh, the ever so kind, do-gooder Mason is starting to internet YELL!!

[edit on 25-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by jaamaan
I would never give my childrens DNA to an organisations that is not transparent and is based on secrets.

No one takes the DNA, or any other information. It's all given to the parents... You would know that if you've read the multiple replies and links provided.

How can i ever realy find out what will happen to the information if the organisation that is gathering it is a secret organisation ?

You can find Masonic lodges in a phone book. And the child id is not secret. Again, only the parents get their childs information.

Maybe it is all out of good will, but there is not realy a way for me to check this.

It's a free service for the community. If you don't like the way it sounds then don't participate. No one is forcing any of this upon parents and children.

There can be many personal accounts of people who are freemasons and helped with this program, but that does not tell me any thing of what might happen outside my knowledge because the whole structure of the organisation that is gathering this information is a secret one.

Take it or leave it. This is an internet forum message board. None of the information is stored. I'm no liar and for all I know you could be stay puft the marshmallow man.

Maybe this CHIP program states that all information that they collect will not be kept and stored, but how in the world can i check that if the organisation who is collecting it is a secret one?

You can come to a booth if you ever see one. Talk with the guys puting it on ask all the questions you wish. Some one will be more than happy to explain it to you.

Originally posted by suzque66
I don't like your affiliation.

I also do not like to date Burger King employees.

I do not like nurses or doctors that only go into the profession for the money.

I do not like green eggs and ham.

Get a mason attourney pal in the back room and sue me.

There seems to be good reasons for the others and I'm sure there's a story behind them. But why the Freemasons? Was an ex a Freemason? You seem to have some bitter resentment towards them.

I never said I was going to sue you. I was just pointing out the fact that you were defaming us. I can give all sorts of examples of my argument...you cannot. Simple as that.