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Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

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posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
Someone in the thread mentioned alzeimer's patients.


It did, and do you know what? Before my father passed away I filed a police report because when I got to his home he was gone. The police came and I realized that I did not even have a current photo of him. It was not something I had thought about often. I need to go water the lawn, good food shopping and oh yeah, get a recent photo of Dad because he has the onset of Alheimer's and none of us know. Turns out he was at the local supermarket and forgot where he was, I got him a live in aid after that....and took a few photos.


The article also mentions some guy joking about chipping his kid.


The operative word being joking.


How is it helping others? I usually have at least 3 current pictures of my kid around.


No one said you need this program to be a prepared parent, people can do this all on their own. But, like myself, you may not realize you did not prepare until after the circumstance has occured. People do not like to think about the unthinkable.

I also think another side benefit is the sense of community an event like this fosters. I met many people that were genuinely happy at the service that we were able to provide for them and hopefully they may carry this forward and do something for someone else without seeking remuneration or self-satisfying praise. It is spiritually rewarding to help others.


Their fingerprints and DNA are not necessary unless 'God forbid' a child is dead. How is this helping?


See my above scenario in the reply to depth om.


Those things can be gathered from clothing or other sources (again, after the fact).


Or the parents can do this all at one time and at their convenience.


My question remains. Aside from having a picture, how is DNA and fingerprints of any aid in an Amber alert?


I answered this already, please read that response.




[edit on 24-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]




posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
I wouldn't be too excited either to have my children's DNA someday match up so that a Rothchild or stinky old Mason can have their organs for themselves or their children.


Ah, nice, insults. Way to promulgate an intelligent discussion.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by suzque66
 


Fingerprints often come up in the even of lost children.
Someone finds a kid, and maybe the kid doesn't remember where they're from.
Or the kid shows up somewhere, and in order to establish identity, their prints are compared to a catalog of other missing children. I can think a few cases where kids had been forced into believing they were someone else. they were identified through fingerprints and dental records.

DNA is pretty much strictly for IDing a child's body.



I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about preparing to be able to identify the remains of my child. If the unthinkable does happen, they can use my DNA to see if it matches that of my child.


And that's fine. No one's forcing you, this is a volunteer bit for people who are interested.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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I took care and charge of my mom as soon as I saw the first symptoms. I was a prisoner in my own home because she refused to go out. She escaped once in attempt to do laundry in my apartment building when she didn't need to. She got as far as the end of the hallway.

If you needed agencies like this to show you how to keep tabs on your dad, then maybe you shouldn't have been responsible for your him. Same goes for children. People shouldn't have to be told these things.

and Agustus, it is only an insult if you are 'stinky and old'. Not going to ask if you are.

Rune Spider: "I can think a few cases where kids had been forced into believing they were someone else. they were identified through fingerprints and dental records. "

I want to see those cases where having the fingerprints on-hand through these agents (Masons) were useful. Were the fingerprints you refer to taken from the child's home? It is obvious dental records are from a dentist.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
I took care and charge of my mom as soon as I saw the first symptoms.


As well as myself, as I said before, none of us was aware that he had Alzheimer's until this instance.


If you needed agencies like this to show you how to keep tabs on your dad...


Where did I say an agency needed to show me how to care for my Dad? I said the police asked me for a current photo and I did not have one, and trust me, I felt terrible about not being able to provide them with this. Read before making condescending and obnoxious remarks.


...then maybe you shouldn't have been responsible for your him.


I was not prior to this, he was fiercely independent and after the incident I exercised my power of attorney and handled his affairs. Which included the in-home provider.


Same goes for children. People shouldn't have to be told these things.


I disagree, life does not come with instructions.


and Agustus, it is only an insult if you are 'stinky and old'. Not going to ask if you are.


Regardless of my age it is still insulting and demonstrates the biased sentiment you have towards others.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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suzque66:

What exactly is your objection to this whole thing?

The Freemasons are offering to help with the funding of a program which records and stores data which might help in a kidnap/missing person situation. They don't keep the data. Irrespective of its effectiveness, I don't truly understand why one would get all "up in arms" about it. It's entirely voluntary.

It's like if some organisation was offering to fund the professional inspection of baby seats in cars, and you were all like "well, baby seats don't really prevent deaths in car accidents".

It's like looking a gift horse in the mouth, really.

So, what's your beef?

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Roark]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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Where did you say it?

here: "It did, and do you know what? Before my father passed away I filed a police report because when I got to his home he was gone. The police came and I realized that I did not even have a current photo of him. It was not something I had thought about often. I need to go water the lawn, good food shopping and oh yeah, get a recent photo of Dad because he has the onset of Alheimer's and none of us know. Turns out he was at the local supermarket and forgot where he was, I got him a live in aid after that....and took a few photos. "

It is obvious you need people like the Masons so things like this wouldn't have happened. Some people would line up their children or elderly for programs that take nonsensical and faux-preventative sensitive information might feel it a necessary evil to give up certain information. Why don't the masons take to the streets rehabilitating the often serial offenders of these hideous acts ..now that is prevention!

We don't think our kids are going to wander off or talk to strangers but they do. That is why being attentive and 'present' is way more valuable than putting sensitive information like this in the hands of a group of people associated with nonsense rituals. Not to mention they aren't even medical personnel and have no business in the collection of samples from anyone.

Besides, if it such a charitable and good act, why aren't local churches doing this? Why would anyone put information like this in the hands of demons? lol

and Roark? How can you compare car seats to pedophiles and kidnapping? It is obvious I have a distaste for Masons and all they stand for.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by depth om
 

ROFL!

reply to post by depth om
 

Many times CHIP gets the child info into Amber Alert and the child is sighted and often recovered quicker than someone who hasn't gone through this.


I know how it can be used to identify remains or material in the abductors car/clothes/house, but does it really help all that much?

Ask John Walsh.


Originally posted by suzque66
I asked where is the good news? How does DNA and fingerprinting help even in an AMBER alert?

When does doing these things show up as good news in the press?

Would you rather us do nothing? At least we are attempting to help recover the kid. It is nearly impossible to impede the occurrence of a missing child, but we should be ever vigilante to find ways to recover them.

reply to post by calmbutwary
 

There is a possibility of recovery, it's not always doom and gloom.

reply to post by suzque66
 

Where did you pull that from? What part of "no information is kept by the Masons" don't you get? Stay on topic and away from the insults.

reply to post by suzque66
 

It's predominantly a child oriented program, but nothing is set in stone. So you think we should constantly monitor our kids? You can't protect everyone 24/7. Criminals always find a way. This is just a way to help those who have lost their kids. How can a parent work full-time (presumably), walk your kid to school, watch him during recesses, walk him home, take him to friends, watch what they do, take him to sports practices, watch every move, and so on. I mean, you can keep them with you, but then your going to raise a sheltered child who didn't experience anything because their parent was to afraid to let their child out.

Alzheimers and children are two different things completely. You can try to draw the parallels, but I've worked in hospitals/assisted living centers; it's different.

I don't get why you are so against this program. How dare they try to help?! It's outrageous trying to bring relief to the family and child!? It's diabolical!



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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So you think we should constantly monitor our kids?



YES

You can't protect everyone 24/7. Criminals always find a way. This is just a way to help those who have lost their kids. How can a parent work full-time (presumably), walk your kid to school, watch him during recesses, walk him home, take him to friends, watch what they do, take him to sports practices, watch every move, and so on.

I did, took a job at my son's school.

I mean, you can keep them with you, but then your going to raise a sheltered child who didn't experience anything because their parent was to afraid to let their child out.

He is old enough now to take care of himself. My job was to keep him safe during the tender years, I did that.

also, I suggested that other 'preventative' measures should be done. How about fixing the REAL problem...the sociological problem of psychopaths and/or pedophiles being rampant in society. Fix the problem at it's source...not attempt to clean up the hurt and pain it causes later.

btw, if YOU trust the Masons do not keep the information, by all means believe that. If they don't then who else do they pass it to that MAY keep this information....

How can anyone who has even the slightest/minute mistrust for our own governement or it's policies trust MASONS more?

[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
Some people would line up their children or elderly for programs that take nonsensical and faux-preventative sensitive information might feel it a necessary evil to give up certain information. Why don't the masons take to the streets rehabilitating the often serial offenders of these hideous acts ..now that is prevention!

What part don't you get? CHIP is not a preventative measure. What would you have us do to them? You sound like you want a nanny state.


Originally posted by suzque66
We don't think our kids are going to wander off or talk to strangers but they do. That is why being attentive and 'present' is way more valuable than putting sensitive information like this in the hands of a group of people associated with nonsense rituals. Not to mention they aren't even medical personnel and have no business in the collection of samples from anyone.

Again, do we have to say it slower? NO INFORMATION IS KEPT BY THE FREEMASONS. As for the medical personnel, how hard is it to take a swab inside someone's mouth? If it is a hair we are taking the parent is asked to pull it so their is no physical contact with the child. Before the kid can be processed the parent MUST consent.


Originally posted by suzque66
Besides, if it such a charitable and good act, why aren't local churches doing this? Why would anyone put information like this in the hands of demons?

What are we psychic now? Ask them. Are you calling the charitable acts of the Freemasons demonic? That's pretty childish.


Originally posted by suzque66
It is obvious I have a distaste for Masons and all they stand for.

Yeah, those who do things for the betterment of the community are just horrid people. Who cares for morality or values? You really have no basis for disliking the Freemasons.



Originally posted by suzque66
I did, took a job at my son's school.

The whole world cannot work near their children.


Originally posted by suzque66
also, I suggested that other 'preventative' measures should be done. How about fixing the REAL problem...the sociological problem of psychopaths and/or pedophiles being rampant in society. Fix the problem at it's source...not attempt to clean up the hurt and pain it causes later.

You are asking for the impossible, but I do believe that that is the job of the police and correctional department.


Originally posted by suzque66
btw, if YOU trust the Masons do not keep the information, by all means believe that. If they don't then who else do they pass it to that MAY keep this information....

On the program, their is a big button to be clicked called "START OVER". It wipes all information that was inputted on the laptop. Nothing is ever saved.


Originally posted by suzque66
How can anyone who has even the slightest/minute mistrust for our own governement or it's policies trust MASONS more?

What have the Freemasons done to you to make you mistrust them?



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by suzque66
 


You seem to keep missing something:



That is why being attentive and 'present' is way more valuable than putting sensitive information like this in the hands of a group of people associated with nonsense rituals.


None of the information is kept by the Masons.
Or anyone involved in the Amber Alert program.

Masons do various charity works. Amber Alert functions are one of them.
While I'm not aware of rehab centers, there are Mason run hospitals, schools, scholarships, ect.

So they do a lot more than just this particular system which you have issues with.

And Amber Alert is not just performed by Masons, I know of a couple of separate organizations that also put similar kits together, my parents had one put together for myself and my sisters when we were younger.



Besides, if it such a charitable and good act, why aren't local churches doing this? Why would anyone put information like this in the hands of demons?


I couldn't find a church that offered it online themselves, but I found a few that support the programs and offer it as part of their calendar of events.
www.bethanywaterford.org...
www.thetelegraph.com...



Not to mention they aren't even medical personnel and have no business in the collection of samples from anyone.

Each volunteer of the program receives training on the proper handling of samples.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
It is obvious you need people like the Masons so things like this wouldn't have happened.


My fraternal membership in the Freemasons did not teach me that I needed to have a recent photo of my father. His becoming lost and my subsequent interaction with the local police department did. Once again, I ask you, what agency had to teach me to keep tabs on my father?


Some people would line up their children or elderly for programs that take nonsensical and faux-preventative sensitive information might feel it a necessary evil to give up certain information.


What information is being 'given up'? The parents keep all the records and photos and nothing is left behind.


Why don't the masons take to the streets rehabilitating the often serial offenders of these hideous acts ..now that is prevention!


Are you advocating vigilantism now? Why do you not do what you are postulating? Look up all the sex offenders in your area, locate the ones who are pedophiles and then simply take to the streets in your Bronson-esque fervor to rehabilitate them.


We don't think our kids are going to wander off or talk to strangers but they do.


Thank you for explaning why people wanted this free service.


That is why being attentive and 'present' is way more valuable than putting sensitive information like this in the hands of a group of people associated with nonsense rituals. Not to mention they aren't even medical personnel and have no business in the collection of samples from anyone.


Once again, your reading comprehension skills are on display; where does it say that anyone but the parents keeps the information? If you do not want to believe anyone on this, including the parents, then go to one of these events (sans children of course) and investigate for yourself.


Besides, if it such a charitable and good act, why aren't local churches doing this?


You mean like this one?


Why would anyone put information like this in the hands of demons? lol


Yeah, calling other people demons is so laugh-out-loud.


It is obvious I have a distaste for Masons and all they stand for.


Glaringly obvious. Where does all this irrational hatred stem from?







[edit on 24-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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My god I love these internet tubes.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Glaringly obvious. Where does all this irrational hatred stem from?

Oh, but Augustus, you asked a rhetorical question. Irrationality doesn't need a source. Irrational: not consistent with or using reason, or lacking understanding.

Hatred towards the Craft often stems from jealousy, religious zealotry, misunderstanding, or confused by the words of others.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by KSigMason]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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What have they NOT done? And what exactly have they done for anyone except the brotherhood really? If I believe it is a database-phishing scam, I have that right. Besides, not like they are doing it for charity really, no doubt whomever sponsors it gives the affiliated member's lodge a nice donation for their services



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
Oh, but Augustus, you asked a rhetorical question. Irrationality doesn't need a source. Irrational: not consistent with or using reason or lacking understanding.


Damn those rhetorical questions. Why do I keep asking them?



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
What have they NOT done?


Nebulous inferences are not substanative. How about you providing some specifics?


And what exactly have they done for anyone except the brotherhood really?


Try using the search function on Google or here on Above Top Secret. You may find answers to this as I am not going to post a littany of charitable acts and contributions Masons have done for non-Masons.


If I believe it is a database-phishing scam, I have that right.


No one is questioning your right to believe this, however misguided it may be.


Besides, not like they are doing it for charity really, no doubt whomever sponsors it gives the affiliated member's lodge a nice donation for their services


Each lodge in New Jersey is responsible for the cost of providing this service.

By the way, are you equally disgusted with the Baptist Church I linked that is also promoting an event similar to this? It is being organized by the Mom's Club there. Any comments?

[edit on 24-5-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Yes I am jealous of two brother Masons who have nothing better to do than to gang up like a team of faceless, nameless schoolboys on the internet to defend their 'lodge' and it's ideals. LOL


Sorry boys, not buying your Masonic infomercial nonsense. No thanks, I have a better class of friends who don't need a fort, secret handshake and a bat-cape to feel productive in society.

But hey, everyone needs love. Even if it is from a Mason that you will never meet huh?

edit: and the church likely recieved a hefty donation also for allowing the use of their space/property and their assumed 'safety' because they are a fellowship of God.



[edit on 24-5-2009 by suzque66]



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by suzque66
 


From what i can tell its more like people jumping Masons about a program they know nothing about. I've personally participated at Child ID booth. I'm speaking from experience and its a good program. Whatever kind of NWO nonsense spin you all want to throw around is pretty much flat out wrong. Grasping at straws.

I'm standing by for the fiery response.



posted on May, 24 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
Yes I am jealous of two brother Masons who have nothing better to do than to gang up like a team of faceless, nameless schoolboys on the internet to defend their 'lodge' and it's ideals.


Is suzque66 your legal name? If not then your are just as 'nameless' and 'faceless' as the rest of us posting here. Calling us schoolboys is a nice way of showing that you have exhausted the intellectual aspect of your arguement and now need to resort to name-calling to make a point, great work.


No thanks, I have a better class of friends who don't need a fort, secret handshake and a bat-cape to feel productive in society.

But hey, everyone needs love. Even if it is from a Mason that you will never meet huh?


Or a mom at the local church. It takes all types....





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